[Wing Attack Plan R]

This team has churned through manager after manager. There is a common denominator here and that’s the players. Forget all the analytics and just rely on your own eyes. Would any of these players, aside maybe Sancho, get into that City squad? You look at the performance yesterday esp. the second half it really was Men v boys in all aspects, talent, drive, work rate, mentality. We just have to accept we are just a border line top 4 team. Question is what will the Glazers do about it, The issue goes beyond coaching and players. It’s management, it’s culture and structure. It doesn’t take someone with an MBA to figure this out.

Then we agree.

 

[mitchmouse]

That should be the last game in a United shirt for at least two players, maybe four or five. We are incapable of playing well in both halves but the sheer lack of passion and interest in the second half would be unacceptable in a Sunday League game.

People who say this shows it wasn't Ole's doing miss the point of some of the players he bought and who have been consistently poor.

I expected to get beaten heavily but having started quite well, and then fading so badly, you have to question the fitness of the squad and the training methods and again this goes back to before RR arrived. I wouldn't be surprised if some of our managerial targets won't want to come to the club.

As for the game, DDG made some good saves but I still think he has become almost accustomed to not keeping clean sheets and some of his parries did go into dangerous areas. His one attempt at sweeping shows how poor he is off his line. That said, he was still my MoM.

Unlike others here, I thought Scott did all he could pretty much alone in midfield. Yet again, Pogba failed to turn up.

Of course the real problem was all four defenders had absolute horror shows and we had nothing up front. And when Lingard and Rashford came on it someone got even worse. My players scores must have a record number of "ones" for their performances...

 

[antsmithmk]

I said earlier on today i would take a 1-0 defeat or a 1-1 draw and the performance was good, as in we dominate them, or at least have 50 percent possession or thereabouts. The second half performance was so bad.

The amount of times i counted the city players hunting in packs while we just stood around.

Every player has to be at it. Which is what city have.

Have you watched any football this season? How on earth did you expect us to have 50% possession against City... Or even worse 'dominate' them.

 

[Ekeke]

Fred and Lindelof. Been the same problem since 2019

Not that our other players played well, but those 2 in particular put in shocking performances that wouldnt look out of place in the bottom 3 teams

 

[Waynne]

Time to recruit players based on mental attitude and applicaton rather than quality.

I'd rather lose to City and lose fighting for every inch of the pitch than letting them walk over us after we're a goal or two down.

Attitude and application over everything else. We need Evra's, Vidic's and the John O' Shea's of this world to bring this club back to where we should be.

 

[Blake's 7]

I think someone at the club needs to be pragmatic. City, Liverpool and probably Chelsea (depending what happens to them financially post their Oligarch) are a level beyond us. We are currently and unfortunately for the next couple of seasons looking at fighting for 4th - that's got to be our target ( don't shoot for the moon when you can't get out of orbit) . Concentrate on being better than Arsenal/Spurs and we'll achieve Champions League status. That's what we need to focus on recruitment wise and then build progressively - strengthen each year or window
Go back to playing players in the position that suits them and where they've enjoyed success. Bring through some hungry talented youth who don't cost a fortune. Stop signing veteran players on mega wages, build for the future.
Target 4th, once we are re-established as a Champions League team you can then attract the better quality players.
I know it doesn't suit the anti Glazer narrative but the amount we've spent isn't the issue, it's our poor recruitment/retention policy that is at the heart of our problems.

 

[yamo123x]

Disjointed mess.

We need complete rebuild, clear out of dead wood and those who don't give a sh1t.

 

[Craig Ward]

I think someone at the club needs to be pragmatic. City, Liverpool and probably Chelsea (depending what happens to them financially post their Oligarch) are a level beyond us. We are currently and unfortunately for the next couple of seasons looking at fighting for 4th - that's got to be our target ( don't shoot for the moon when you can't get out of orbit) . Concentrate on being better than Arsenal/Spurs and we'll achieve Champions League status. That's what we need to focus on recruitment wise and then build progressively - strengthen each year or window
Go back to playing players in the position that suits them and where they've enjoyed success. Bring through some hungry talented youth who don't cost a fortune. Stop signing veteran players on mega wages, build for the future.
Target 4th, once we are re-established as a Champions League team you can then attract the better quality players.
I know it doesn't suit the anti Glazer narrative but the amount we've spent isn't the issue, it's our poor recruitment/retention policy that is at the heart of our problems.

Mate, there's way more than the 3 mentioned clubs who are a level above us.

We have rotten owners, an abysmal footballing model, are poor in the transfer marker, have the most ego inflated pampered playing squad in the modern game and have no vision whatsoever. Our stadium is not upto standard and from top to bottom we have no integrity or standards. We are a good few levels below what's needed in every aspect of the club from top to bottom.

We used to be the standard

Can you honestly say we set the benchmark for other clubs in any area of our club? From scouting, to coaching to absolutely anything. Is there any part of this club where others think "That's where we need to be?" We are so far behind and are just living off our branding and our name from past glory. Carry on like this and within the next 10 years we'll be Nottingham Forest, labouring around with no prospect of being able to challenge for titles with the old " we were European champions 20 years ago" mentality.

Arsenal, Spurs, Wolves, Leicester, West Ham can all be easily added to as clubs who are better equipped than us in the way they are run and the way they play/apply themselves in games. Villa too, hell even Brentford have a defined style of play.

You say we should target 4th? Am I missing something? Hasn't that been our sole aim for the last 6 or 7 seasons? Did I miss a season or two when we genuinely thought the aim would be winning the league?

At this rate, top 4 looks beyond us. We are genuinely mid table level. Poor mid table at that.

Go through our X11 and compare it to say, West ham or Leicester. How many of ours get a game? Not many, and those that can be argued/debated so we need a proper reality check. Our midfield pivot of Fred and McTominey as a pair I would argue would only get a game for Norwich. Every single team in the division has a better central midfield than us - and that's just one element of the problems within our squad

 

[NewGlory]

Because you don't press City with front 6 from minute one. All those chasing will cost your stamina.

Even if you want to press front 6, one of the CB needs to mark KDB or Bernardo, stick to the man.

Really baffled by the tactics yesterday. It's a crime to see KDB/Bernardo/Grealish running free in empty midfield. Laughable, really.

This is very important and apt analysis, that is spot on. We have RR as coach-manager and he is just not good enough at this level. He is trying to compete with managers who are head and shoulders bigger than him—Pep, Klopp, Conte, Tuchel. RR is not at their level, he is lower-level manager, and his main strength is to be director of football, which we aren't even using–club allowed zero transfers for him!!!! And he will be just a consultant if he stays!

Insanity

 

[Buster15]

I think someone at the club needs to be pragmatic. City, Liverpool and probably Chelsea (depending what happens to them financially post their Oligarch) are a level beyond us. We are currently and unfortunately for the next couple of seasons looking at fighting for 4th - that's got to be our target ( don't shoot for the moon when you can't get out of orbit) . Concentrate on being better than Arsenal/Spurs and we'll achieve Champions League status. That's what we need to focus on recruitment wise and then build progressively - strengthen each year or window
Go back to playing players in the position that suits them and where they've enjoyed success. Bring through some hungry talented youth who don't cost a fortune. Stop signing veteran players on mega wages, build for the future.
Target 4th, once we are re-established as a Champions League team you can then attract the better quality players.
I know it doesn't suit the anti Glazer narrative but the amount we've spent isn't the issue, it's our poor recruitment/retention policy that is at the heart of our problems.

We have become Arsenal.
And that is the biggest insult I can give to our so called players.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

losing the way we did is totally unacceptable, we gave up in the second half and made it easy.
I dont mind losing , even to City, if we actually play and fight, but we did not.

 

[Che Guevara]

Man Utd's second half stats are truly shocking, I knew they had a poor second half but i didn't realise they were this bad. The temporary manager arrangement is clearly not working.

 

[Siorac]

However, what was most telling was the technical ability and awareness of the City team.

I know Moyes got shat on when he suggested we should aspire to be like City but in terms of technical ability, we bloody well should.

 

[Chris M]

Ball just in our own half, no movement ahead but a ball into space for someone to chase is better than a ball passed back ultimately to the keeper to launch long ball that at best is a 50 50 ball if someone is challenging, at the moment there is no challenge and that is very painful to watch.If there is no aerial challenge and the defender has time for the ball to drop to his feed and pass, that's a huge lack of commitment issue.
I can remember when the team has me on my feet reveling in their play, now I'm on my feet full of anger and despair at the performances.
Its emotional.

 

[Siorac]

This team has churned through manager after manager. There is a common denominator here and that’s the players.

No, that's not even true. Pretty much the only players who are still here from, say, Moyes' time are De Gea and Mata. Oh and Phil Jones, of course. We've had huge player turnover over the last decade but we're consistently shite anyway.

 

[Maticmaker]

Put to the test once again by our locals rivals, a clinical exposure of everything we do wrong and everything they do right, in one game.
For ten, maybe fifteen minutes after Sancho equalized, we were definitely in 'with a shout', after that even in the first half to be honest, City remorselessly started to take us apart.

We have to accept that City are a world class team, but with the players we have we should have been able to put up some stiffer resistance. Like most of us (I suspect) although losing 2-1 at HT I was reasonably satisfied that we were still 'going to make a game of it', who knows maybe even sneak something at the death.

Even before the third goal went in (and that was definitely the 'killer blow') there was a sense of 'headless chicken' behaviour from some of our players. After that we collectively surrendered, long before the 'ole...ole, shouts from City fans every time they passed the ball and we could get no where near them.

One final plea to our players, PLEASE! PLEASE! no soundbites, press releases etc. this week saying how sorry they are, that would be adding insult to injury. Just quietly reach down inside yourselves, find some sense of love for the club, and respect for the fans.

 

[TMDaines]

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[redmanx]

You won’t see me angry or complaining after results like this now because I simply don’t care. I still love the club but I don’t respect it, and when you have no respect for something it’s hard to be that bothered.

The club don’t care about being successful anymore. Until that changes get used ti this mediocrity. It’s been 10 years now.

Sorry, I disagree; the Club cares passionately about these things, just like the supporters do, its the directors and owners who dont seem to care any more about winning trophies, to them its all about "The Brand" image rights, sponsorship etc by trading on our great Clubs history; but in time we wont attract the sort of sponsors we've had in the past as success is the thing such sponsors are ultimately interested in, not history, and if we are not successful they'll put their money into clubs which are. David Gill was always aware that it's success which keeps the sponsors paying out, but our current directors and owners seem to have forgotten this very simple, basic fact of football economics. So please continue to respect The Club and do get angry with the clowns who run it; Manchester United wasnt always like this.

 

[IRN-BRUno]

First time I can remember switching off before the end, didn't even realise until this morning that we'd conceded a 4th. The 1st half was actually encouraging at times but the 2nd was one of the most pathetic displays I've seen from anyone. Can't get angry or even too disappointed anymore, it's just expected.

This side actually seemed pretty likeable 12-18 months ago, now there's barely a handful who I'd be sad to see leave.

 

[2 man midfield]

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This was the thing that hurt the most yesterday, when I saw that. It’s just clear they wanted it more.

 

[kthanksbye]

Time to recruit players based on mental attitude and applicaton rather than quality.

I'd rather lose to City and lose fighting for every inch of the pitch than letting them walk over us after we're a goal or two down.

Attitude and application over everything else. We need Evra's, Vidic's and the John O' Shea's of this world to bring this club back to where we should be.

Been saying this since we appointed RR. We've bought too many plyers without considering their mental strength, character and how they react to adversity.
Not a single player in our squad is capable of playing to their potential consistently.
No wonder SAF wanted to speak with the players' parents before signing them.

 

[always_hoping]

A day on doesn't make me less annoyed or angry to what i witnessed yesterday.

The effort at defending throughout and for all 4 goals was woeful school boy stuff, the 2nd half performance was simply this bunch of flaky players downing the tools.

Where was the discipline, desire, hunger, aggression and intensity that are required for a derby game? Yes we can do English media on it and talk up City but they are a side that lost recently to Tottenham and also dropped points to Southampton and Palace at home this season.

I felt sorry for the United supporters that used up their time, effort and money to sit through that game in the Etihad Stadium yesterday.

 

[Red Shorts]

Looking back at yesterday, I thought we played the 1st 30 minutes really well and matched up to City. The first 2 goals were easily avoidable, and we never recuperated after that.

The way we downed tools 2nd half was nothing short of embarrassing. Full credit to City for being utterly ruthless.

 

[TMDaines]

Looking back at yesterday, I thought we played the 1st 30 minutes really well and matched up to City. The first 2 goals were easily avoidable, and we never recuperated after that.

The way we downed tools 2nd half was nothing short of embarrassing. Full credit to City for being utterly ruthless.

That's the problem with United in a nutshell though. We only turn up for 30 minutes in most matches.

 

[Red Shorts]

That's the problem with United in a nutshell though. We only turn up for 30 minutes in most matches.

Yep I totally agree. The way we drop off after good spells each game is astounding. Lack of concentration? Fitness? A combination? It's baffling

 

[smi11ie]

Utd are scrambling for 4th, which they probably won't get. City are flying, albeit with some minor hicups lately, and they have a well oiled machine.

Utd need to beat spurs, accept a defeat to pool and prey they can pull it together enough to beat Athletico (not sure Utd can win that one).

All the negativety about the players is boring. It is a team game and it is the team that needs work. Maguire did wook wike he was wearing wellies though.

 

[Buster15]

Put to the test once again by our locals rivals, a clinical exposure of everything we do wrong and everything they do right, in one game.
For ten, maybe fifteen minutes after Sancho equalized, we were definitely in 'with a shout', after that even in the first half to be honest, City remorselessly started to take us apart.

We have to accept that City are a world class team, but with the players we have we should have been able to put up some stiffer resistance. Like most of us (I suspect) although losing 2-1 at HT I was reasonably satisfied that we were still 'going to make a game of it', who knows maybe even sneak something at the death.

Even before the third goal went in (and that was definitely the 'killer blow') there was a sense of 'headless chicken' behaviour from some of our players. After that we collectively surrendered, long before the 'ole...ole, shouts from City fans every time they passed the ball and we could get no where near them.

One final plea to our players, PLEASE! PLEASE! no soundbites, press releases etc. this week saying how sorry they are, that would be adding insult to injury. Just quietly reach down inside yourselves, find some sense of love for the club, and respect for the fans.

To be honest, it actually hurts more today than yesterday. Like many, I switched off because our players switched off. And I tried not to over think that abysmal display.
But today comes with clearer thinking. And yet more frustration.
So much so that it is difficult to know where to start.

Despite all the changes in manager, player and coaching staff, the simple fact is that nothing has changed and definitely not improved.

The very clear lesson that City, Liverpool and Chelsea have shown is recruitment is at the heart of success.
To be the best, you have to have the best people.
And to do that, you have to recruit the very best people at all levels in the organisation.

Our recruitment has been and is still a shambles. Chucking people at the problem has just confused the situation ever more.

So despite the current malaise, I am hopeful that the experiment with RR can have a positive effect.
Not as a manager. But for his strategic role.

I did say hopeful...

 

[Josh 76]

I actually think Utd are one of the easiest teams to play against. Most teams would love to play us right now.
Even Peterborough gave city a harder game than us.

Im dreading Anfield. I will take a 3-0 loss now.

 

[nmm85]

Yep I totally agree. The way we drop off after good spells each game is astounding. Lack of concentration? Fitness? A combination? It's baffling

I think it's both with a sprinkle of lack of confidence. It doesn't take much for our heads to drop at all and once one or two heads drop, we're like a house of cards.

The mentality of the players needs drastic improvement but sadly, I think that will be the hardest thing to change.

 

[SirReginald]

Been saying this since we appointed RR. We've bought too many plyers without considering their mental strength, character and how they react to adversity.
Not a single player in our squad is capable of playing to their potential consistently.
No wonder SAF wanted to speak with the players' parents before signing them.

Mourinho really did some mega damage to your club. Signing big egos and big names over careful profiling. Not just mentally or level of ability but stylistically.

Your team chemistry and make up now is absolutely dreadful. You have a squad bloated with players who are not good enough but will seemingly never leave.

Your wages are absurd. 5 of the top 10 best paid players in the league are at your club. You are the highest paid team in the league by a long way.

You don’t have an any identifiable style of play.

Your transfer success rate in the years after fergie.. would make children cry. How many beyond Bruno (at this point) can be deemed truly successful?

 

[gerdm07]

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That was impressive from City. Less impressive was Bruno because I thought he was going to try to switch the ball with his first touch. Instead he dribbles right into two city players. I guess he was trying to get it to his right foot. Maybe he doesn't trust his left foot to make that pass.

 

[Moriarty]

Souless team.

Soulless club.

 

[jeff_goldblum]

I'm almost numb to getting twatted by City. I'm annoyed by the stupid mistakes and way we gave up in the second half, but I can't really blame the team we put out there for being nowhere near City's standard - that's been obvious for ages. They have a squad of exceptional players, specifically recruited over a number of years on the basis of their suitability to play in a system devised and coached by probably the best manager out there. Their team is the product of years of knowledgeable football people being backed to carry-out a long-term vision. Ours is the product of years of decisions made by a clown car of money men for whom football is at best a passing interest but mostly an unwelcome distraction from the real business of agreeing sponsorship deals.

Even if we manage to pull our act together behind the scenes, it will take years of big spending for us to reach their level. Our prospects of getting a title this decade largely depend on us not putting a step wrong in our recruitment (players and coaches) for a few years and hoping that City and Liverpool massively feck up their post-Pep/Klopp managerial appointments.

 

[Rojow]

I think United as a Club died yesterday. As a big club. As an elite club. It's been embarrasing how we just don't compete against our big rivals anymore.

 

[#07]

 

[Sandikan]

I said earlier on today i would take a 1-0 defeat or a 1-1 draw and the performance was good, as in we dominate them, or at least have 50 percent possession or thereabouts. The second half performance was so bad.

The amount of times i counted the city players hunting in packs while we just stood around.

Every player has to be at it. Which is what city have.

That's some hilarious delusion mate.
We have struggled to beat Watford, Burnley, Middlesborough level teams, let alone dominating the best team away, without 2 of the back 4 playing too and no-one even resembling a striker out there.

 

[Sandikan]

I think United as a Club died yesterday. As a big club. As an elite club. It's been embarrasing how we just don't compete against our big rivals anymore.

Why yesterday? As opposed to equal smashes v City & Liverpool earlier in the season?
Or the Moyes year 2x3-0 home defeats?

Or other comfortable losses against City most other years at home?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I think it's both with a sprinkle of lack of confidence. It doesn't take much for our heads to drop at all and once one or two heads drop, we're like a house of cards.

The mentality of the players needs drastic improvement but sadly, I think that will be the hardest thing to change.

Agree. I think a lot of it is mentality. Losing the EL final, losing the Euros. Sides in the past had disappointments, Blackburn winning the league on final day, City winning league in final minutes. Y'know what the side came back stronger the next season. Didn't let it weigh them down.

 

[Maticmaker]

So despite the current malaise, I am hopeful that the experiment with RR can have a positive effect.
Not as a manager. But for his strategic role.

100% agree, with everything you said earlier and especially this last sentence... to be honest we've no where else to go. The lack of proper succession planning after SAF's departure is really coming home to roost now. The owners, whether they like it or not, will now have to look at things through Ralf's eyes, if they want to hold on to their prize asset.

There is something ironic about the fact that the two members of the Glazer family who are actually involved in developing/operating sporting franchises in the US, are not involved in United, not even members of the board. You would have thought they would give their Property Development brothers the 'heads up' on how to operate.... but there again, they have already sold their shares !!

 

[Tom Cato]

I remember that game when AWB pocketed Sterling and everyone were laughing at City. Different times, nearly same squad.