Rangnick - "Apart from goalkeeping we need to improve all areas of our squad" | Muppets amass

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Whilst I agree we need a major overhaul, RR should be doing better with the current squad he has at his disposal. Our team on paper is better than the likes of Burnley, Everton, Watford, Southampton, Middlesborough, etc, yet all of those teams took points off us. In M'boro's case, they obviously knocked us out of the FA Cup.

Now, yes we need better players, but RR was brought in on a short term basis to get the best of what we have, and that should have been more than enough to beat the aforementioned teams. He recently spoke about not being able to score past an Everton side that conceded three against Burnley, but what is he doing to solve that problem? From where i'm standing, it seems that I'm watching the same shit all the time. Our system remains the same most of the time, as do the players and we're so predictable to play against. I can obviously imagine RR and his team are going through stuff in training regards our attacking play but lets be honest, it's not working. We still rely on individual moments.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Lets see if he gets a reaction today

Ya. There will be a collective tools down movement. And even Ronaldo may not be there to give some motivation.

Rashford may tweet about hurt feelings. Thank God there is no international break for Pogba to mouth off

 

[crossy1686]

Lets see if he gets a reaction today

They're playing like Ralf has told them collectively they won't be playing for United in a season or so, and especially based on today's quote's. I doubt they've got a reaction in them.

 

[ZIDANE]

What's the other part to this? Whether he's saying this for that reason, or for what other reason?

To be honest, I wrote this within seconds of having to join a Zoom meeting.

The point was whether he's providing clear direction of travel going forwards (representing the view of the board) or whether he's saying this in the media because he's tried to have the conversation with the board and they aren't listening i.e. still want to buy 1-3 players in summer and go for one big priced player like Rice. Renew Jones, Bailly, keep Ronaldo and Martial etc.

 

[MadDogg]

But if anyone is seriously suggesting Henderson as the answer right now -- not sure about recent posts here, but not that long ago he was bigged up as superior to Dave -- that person needs to have a word with himself

I see quite a lot of people saying this and it's strange. Basically every single defensive stat improved significantly when Henderson took over from De Gea last season. Was he perfect? Hell no, and there are definite questions over whether he'd be good enough long-term. But his period in goal last season just so happened to coincide with our defence as a whole looking more settled than at any other time in the last four seasons, and statistically also conceding the least in that time. Is it really a coincidence?

18/19 - 54 goals in 38 matches
19/20 - 36 goals in 38 matches
20/21 - 29 goals in 24 games (De Gea)
20/21 - 9 goals in 10 games (Henderson)
21/22 - 44 goals in 32 games

Note that 20/21 doesn't add up to 38 games, as I don't want to include the couple of random games that Henderson had in the early part of the season or that De Gea had at the end, as goalkeepers really should get a run of games. That would just swing things even further towards Henderson though.

So in terms of goals conceded per game, that's averages of 1.42, 0.95, 1.2 and 1.37 for De Gea. An average of 1.23 in total over the last four season. Henderson had 0.9.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Ralf just telling it how it is, I love it.

 

[AbusementPark]

We went on a run of playing the worst teams in the league. He won 3 of his first 4 league games and lost the 5th. We scored a grand total of 6 goals in those first 5 games against Palace, Norwich, Newcastle, Burnley and Wolves. I wouldn’t say he got us playing bar 45 minutes against Palace.

We went though a period of losing once in 18 games with ralf in charge this season, not too bad. Yes Carrick won 2 and drew one of his 3 games but would he have been the one to bring the team to the next level? Ralf came in and couldn’t buy anyone so had to work with the team that got ole sacked and he’s done the best he possibly could. I’d expect the majority of the team to be binned next season.

 

[Random Task]

Just saw this...

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

I think we can all agree with Ralf on this, although i think he plans to do it over 2-3 windows, as he was quoted in another interview.

Absolutely.

I mean, you could make a strong argument that we need upgrades in every position on the pitch. Every single one, in including Varane who is injured more than he's fit these days.

 

[Robindinho]

Well said Ralf. It's been obvious for a while but good to see he has the balls to say it. Let's see if the board listens.

Won't be a quick fix though - for this summer, I'd hope for 4/5 new signings and then promoting youth as our squad players.

Assuming we get the right type of signings in, should still have a competitive squad...

GK - De Gea/Henderson (possibly new backup keeper)

RB - Dalot/Laird
CB - Varane/Maguire
CB - New signing/Lindelof
LB - Shaw/Telles/Fernandez

DM - New signing/Garner
CM - New signing/Fred/Hannibal
AM - Bruno/VdB

RW - New signing/Pellistri/Amad
LW - Sancho/Rashford
ST - Ronaldo/Martial

Probably need a new striker too but I think Martial/Ronaldo will end up staying and we address it the summer after (along with the full backs).

 

[FerociousCorgis]

i am guessing the thinking is that you need the overall structure in place before you bring in the ball playing gk, if that is the direction you want to go. Drop ederson into our team and we prob allow an extra goal a game just from trying to play out of the back with our current players.

 

[bucky]

Well Ogden was the first to name Ten Hag, he get's more right than he get's wrong but people only remember the wrong one's for some reason. You look at our signings over the last few years and Nkunku doesn't fit our target demographic, I would bet we'd sign Neymar or Griezmann over him.

Mitten spoke about how United recruit, he said they have 3 targets and start negotiations for them all, then pull the trigger on one and let the other two down if the first choice comes through, and the manager get's final say. He said a good example is when we signed Rojo (I think it was him anyway), we had Michael Keane all but ready to put pen to paper and we cancelled the transfer for Rojo instead. So it's clear our scouting department is putting lists together but they don't know what style of play they're recruiting for so now they just recommend players like Cavani, Zlatan, Maguire etc.

If our scouting department and data analysts didn't have a report on Nkunku, then that represents a massive issue. Given how we have recruited in recent years, I understand why you would believe that. Still, I'd like to believe, that the report by Ogden is untrue, because the alternative would be gross incompetence. Even if I was making a similar point earlier. I just think there is a difference between not signing someone and not having any information at all on one of the most promising young players in Europe.

 

[hobbers]

See you blame the lack of high line on Maguire but I’ll blame it De Gea again. Personally thought we looked so much more solid with Hendo and he’s hardly spectacular but much better at every element of keeping aside from shot stopping. Maguire was part of that side and we definitely played a higher line than now.

We didn't play a higher line with Henderson. We played exactly the same way we had done before he came in for the Palace game.

As for being much better at every element, that's farcical. His kicking and distribution is equally poor as De Gea's. He clearly struggles with the ball at his feet. And his handling is atrocious, every save parried right back into dangerous areas. What he's better than De Gea at is coming for crosses and shouting, that's it.

If he had any strengths as a keeper there'd be a queue of clubs looking to sign him.

 

[crossy1686]

If our scouting department and data analysts didn't have a report on Nkunku, then that represents a massive issue. Given how we have recruited in recent years, I understand why you would believe that. Still, I'd like to believe, that the report by Ogden is untrue, because the alternative would be gross incompetence. Even if I was making a similar point earlier. I just think there is a difference between not signing someone and not having any information at all on one of the most promising young players in Europe.

I think you've nailed it there mate.

Let's hope Ten Hag brings more accountability and change in a lot of these departments, along with Ralf's help.

 

[Rocksy]

Erik ten Hag, his people and Rangnick with current staff can be very good for us. I’m very excited.

Fabrizio Romano mentions Ralf a lot and has been talking about his “revolution”, but all the signs I’m seeing and hearing are that the club is not listening to him. I’d expect him to not be around much longer. There’s been signs of that for a while and him going all out in the press tells me that he thinks they’re not on it. I think Ralf not having a major role in sorting out the staff, recruitment and scouting would be a massive mistake, but I think it’s heading that way.

 

[JPRouve]

If our scouting department and data analysts didn't have a report on Nkunku, then that represents a massive issue. Given how we have recruited in recent years, I understand why you would believe that. Still, I'd like to believe, that the report by Ogden is untrue, because the alternative would be gross incompetence. Even if I was making a similar point earlier. I just think there is a difference between not signing someone and not having any information at all on one of the most promising young players in Europe.

That quote was made up. We played Leipzig with Nkunku and we definitely scout the Bundesliga.

 

[JPRouve]

Fabrizio Romano mentions Ralf a lot and has been talking about his “revolution”, but all the signs I’m seeing and hearing are that the club is not listening to him. I’d expect him to not be around much longer. There’s been signs of that for a while and him going all out in the press tells me that he thinks they’re not on it. I think Ralf not having a major role in sorting out the staff, recruitment and scouting would be a massive mistake, but I think it’s heading that way.

What signs?

 

[hobbers]

Fabrizio Romano mentions Ralf a lot and has been talking about his “revolution”, but all the signs I’m seeing and hearing are that the club is not listening to him.

Hiring Ten Hag sort of shows they are though...?

 

[gajender]

Or a reporter that has close ties to the club had an actual scoop? Weird how some of you only chose to believe what you want to believe.

In what universe Odgen has close ties with the Club he has been redundant Since Moyes sacking for United news till his scoop of Ten Hag to United .

 

[bucky]

I think you've nailed it there mate.

Let's hope Ten Hag brings more accountability and change in a lot of these departments, along with Ralf's help.

Agreed.

 

[Sandikan]

How negative are our fans when basically told the whole squad bar keepers needs sorting, and they still say keeper does too

 

[RkkMan]

Well said Ralf. It's been obvious for a while but good to see he has the balls to say it. Let's see if the board listens.

Won't be a quick fix though - for this summer, I'd hope for 4/5 new signings and then promoting youth as our squad players.

Assuming we get the right type of signings in, should still have a competitive squad...

GK - De Gea/Henderson (possibly new backup keeper)

RB - Dalot/Laird
CB - Varane/Maguire
CB - New signing/Lindelof
LB - Shaw/Telles/Fernandez

DM - New signing/Garner
CM - New signing/Fred/Hannibal
AM - Bruno/VdB

RW - New signing/Pellistri/Amad
LW - Sancho/Rashford
ST - Ronaldo/Martial

Probably need a new striker too but I think Martial/Ronaldo will end up staying and we address it the summer after (along with the full backs).

Elanga will be in the first team next season first of all. Also ST is a bigger priority than RW as per all our reliable journalists and even Ralf himself months ago said Utd need a new young ST we`ll sign one and one of Martial/Ronaldo will leave one way or another. Only way we buy a RW is if Rashford leaves

 

[Baneofthegame]

How negative are our fans when basically told the whole squad bar keepers needs sorting, and they still say keeper does too

Well Ralf also basically followed up with as much.

Think he probably means short term it’s passable, rather than other areas.

 

[SirAnderson]

To be honest, I wrote this within seconds of having to join a Zoom meeting.

The point was whether he's providing clear direction of travel going forwards (representing the view of the board) or whether he's saying this in the media because he's tried to have the conversation with the board and they aren't listening i.e. still want to buy 1-3 players in summer and go for one big priced player like Rice. Renew Jones, Bailly, keep Ronaldo and Martial etc.

Got you. I would think this early it would be highly problematic if its not the view of the board and him putting pressure on them. Then again, he may just be honestly expressing his views to the media, and when he gets to the board room, would have to further make his case if the board don't see what he is seeing (knowing our board, I'd think that would be the case).
I think the first indication will be if any of the deadwood get a renewal, then we'd know the board are on a different train altogether.

 

[tenpoless]

People keep going on about GK distribution. If the GK is good with passing but the defenders and midfielders are complete garbage that it takes a Jesus miracle for them to not feck up a pass in a 15 minutes period then thats not any better than a GK that cant pass and smacks the ball to the opponents goal during goal kicks.

 

[Withnail]

When you say this where do you put Bruno amongst our dysfunctional midfield problems?

I wasn't thinking of him at all to be honest. It was the barren wasteland in central midfield I was referring to.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Did you read all Ralf's quotes or just the headline? He basically said De Gea was great for him, but if the new manager wants a more modern style keeper then a new goalkeeper will also need to be signed.

Not quite the endorsement the snippet in the thread title suggests.

And crucially it's in response to a direct question about whether De Gea specifically is a problem, as opposed to the broader quotes which don't single out any individuals.

He didn't say "Dave is my boy!!!1" and obviously no ones place is set in stone. But he is far from our biggest problems. My issue is with the tactical geniuses who seem to think we are playing shite because of them.

 

[Rojofiam]

Over 7000 languages and Ralf Rangnick chose to speak FACTS

 

[Rozay]

Whilst I agree we need a major overhaul, RR should be doing better with the current squad he has at his disposal. Our team on paper is better than the likes of Burnley, Everton, Watford, Southampton, Middlesborough, etc, yet all of those teams took points off us. In M'boro's case, they obviously knocked us out of the FA Cup.

Now, yes we need better players, but RR was brought in on a short term basis to get the best of what we have, and that should have been more than enough to beat the aforementioned teams. He recently spoke about not being able to score past an Everton side that conceded three against Burnley, but what is he doing to solve that problem? From where i'm standing, it seems that I'm watching the same shit all the time. Our system remains the same most of the time, as do the players and we're so predictable to play against. I can obviously imagine RR and his team are going through stuff in training regards our attacking play but lets be honest, it's not working. We still rely on individual moments.

He’s had no strikers, and to me that is the root of it. Only so far you can go without goals. He basically lost Cavani, Martial and Greenwood in January. Ronaldo also missing for spells. He’s brought in Elanga but only so much he can do, he isn’t all that IMO.

 

[bucky]

That quote was made up. We played Leipzig with Nkunku and we definitely scout the Bundesliga.

I was essentially agreeing here and in the Nkunku thread that Ogden was talking out of his arse.

 

[Relfy]

I wonder who he is referring to with this line > " There might be a couple of players - and I have already named those players to the board - that independent from formation, from style of football, and independent from a new manager, that could be of interest for a club like mufc"

 

[The Dane]

I think too much is put into the fact that he is not mentioning goalkeeper as a place for improvement. Even if he was of the opinion that we needed to strengthen there as well, it would be pretty stupid to go out and say it, as it would mean specific DDG, and not really a way to motivate a player who has been among the best in the league for years and definitely not the reason why we are struggling for top 4 this year.

 

[Cassidy]

I wonder who he is referring to with this line > " There might be a couple of players - and I have already named those players to the board - that independent from formation, from style of football, and independent from a new manager, that could be of interest for a club like mufc"

Im going to guess

Laimer and Nkuku

 

[MadDogg]

People keep going on about GK distribution. If the GK is good with passing but the defenders and midfielders are complete garbage that it takes a Jesus miracle for them to not feck up a pass in a 15 minutes period then thats not any better than a GK that cant pass and smacks the ball to the opponents goal during goal kicks.

It's not just about distribution.

There are basically four important aspects of being a goalkeeper. Shot-stopping, communication with your defenders, and control of your box are three that have always been important. Think back to any of the top goalkeepers over the last few decades and they'll almost always be very good at all three. Distribution and willingness to play almost as a sweeper is the other aspect that used to be a fairly distant fourth, but over the last decade or so has significantly increased in importance (for some managers perhaps even the most important).

De Gea is fantastic at one of those attributes. Hell, at his best he might even have had a claim to be the best ever. However he is absolutely terrible at all three of the other aspects. Not just below average, but literally amongst the worst in the league at all three.

 

[Skills]

Your recruitment strategy shouldn't be tied to a manager. Your managerial choices on the other hand should be dependent on the squad you've got, and the players you're hoping to recruit.

In modern football, managers are worthless while a squad of players costs the best part of a 1/2 billion pounds.

 

[bucky]

I wonder who he is referring to with this line > " There might be a couple of players - and I have already named those players to the board - that independent from formation, from style of football, and independent from a new manager, that could be of interest for a club like mufc"

Tchouaméni most likely.

 

[Coops73]

Im going to guess

Laimer and Nkuku

I’m going Nkunku and Haidara

 

[James Peril]

It’s quite fantastic isn’t it. We all want tons of signings each summer, but for some reason we live by the mantra of not signing more than three because they won’t gel or what not. That of course goes out the window when we’re as shit as we are. This will be a fun summer for sure, embrace it!

 

[JPRouve]

Tchouaméni most likely.

A bit like Fabinho or Kimmich, Tchouaméni looks definitely like one of those players that should be comfortable regardless of your tactical approach. He is fundamentally sound and complete.

 

[Red4Ever]

Doesn’t matter whether he bought them or not. Publicly criticising players is either a good thing or it isn’t.

whatever Jose

 

[bucky]

A bit like Fabinho or Kimmich, Tchouaméni looks definitely like one of those players that should be comfortable regardless of your tactical approach. He is fundamentally sound and complete.

I made the same point earlier about Bruno Guimarães in this thread, which is why I didn't understand why we weren't in for him.