5 bad apples at Manchester United, 3 of them we are all in agreement with

[The Oracle]

Lingard
Rashford
Pogba
Shaw
Maguire

Out of the 5 bad apples above, it is our academy products that need to be churned out of the club immediately... for good.
If they haven’t already, then pack your bags Lingard, Rashford, and Pogba

Enough is enough.

There is no hiding place for those 3 players anymore. It is those 3 players who have been stinking out the place for far too long, and they have been taking us fans for mugs.
They think that because they are products of our academy, they are above everyone else in the dressing room. No heart, no desire, no fight on the pitch, no effort, sauntering around, poor body language, no tracking back, blind alleys, don’t care about the fans, undermining the manager, don’t want to be at the club, GET OUT!

The two salvageable apples:
Shaw and Maguire

Shaw is a good left-back, we know he puts the effort in, and fights for the shirt. The problem with Shaw is that he has too much to say, and that can often undermine the manager. He can salvage his United career by keeping his mouth shut, and letting his performances on the pitch do the talking for him.

Maguire is a good defender, who has been playing horribly in a United shirt. When he plays in an England shirt, he always has really good quality defensive midfielders playing in front of him – something which he doesn’t have at Manchester United.
We know in the long term that his pace will always be a weakness of his, so he must develop his positional sense and with that a better reading of the game.
Just as Luke Shaw does, Harry always puts effort in and fights for the shirt.

Ten Hag must address Harry’s delusions of grandeur, as he isn’t as good a defender as he thinks he is. A period out of the team would go a long way in not only addressing Harry’s form when required, but would also give him a reality check as well.

 

[432JuanMata]

Is it a thing that English players or just overrated so when they don’t turn out that good it’s a shock. As 4 you mentioned are English throw in AWB and we really have some poor English players

 

[SalfordRed18]

Utter bollocks.

 

[forevrared]

Absolutely mental to suggest that Harry Maguire has more to offer United than Rashford going forward. Rashford is bereft of confidence while Maguire is bereft of ability.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

The only shirt Maguire and Shaw fight for is the England shirt.

They might improve next season but it's only because there's an international tournament coming.

 

[lefty_jakobz]

Absolutely mental to suggest that Harry Maguire has more to offer United than Rashford going forward. Rashford is bereft of confidence while Maguire is bereft of ability.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

 

[The Oracle]

Is it a thing that English players or just overrated so when they don’t turn out that good it’s a shock. As 4 you mentioned are English throw in AWB and we really have some poor English players

I agree that the English players we have are overrated. Even so, putting effort in and fighting for the shirt, goes a long way. We are just not seeing that with Lingard, Rashford, and Pogba. In my opinion it has gone on for far too long with them, and it is my view that they are beyond salvageable.

 

[Tyrion]

Lingard
Rashford
Pogba
Shaw
Maguire

Out of the 5 bad apples above, it is our academy products that need to be churned out of the club immediately... for good.
If they haven’t already, then pack your bags Lingard, Rashford, and Pogba

Enough is enough.

There is no hiding place for those 3 players anymore. It is those 3 players who have been stinking out the place for far too long, and they have been taking us fans for mugs.
They think that because they are products of our academy, they are above everyone else in the dressing room. No heart, no desire, no fight on the pitch, no effort, sauntering around, poor body language, no tracking back, blind alleys, don’t care about the fans, undermining the manager, don’t want to be at the club, GET OUT!

The two salvageable apples:
Shaw and Maguire

Shaw is a good left-back, we know he puts the effort in, and fights for the shirt. The problem with Shaw is that he has too much to say, and that can often undermine the manager. He can salvage his United career by keeping his mouth shut, and letting his performances on the pitch do the talking for him.

Maguire is a good defender, who has been playing horribly in a United shirt. When he plays in an England shirt, he always has really good quality defensive midfielders playing in front of him – something which he doesn’t have at Manchester United.
We know in the long term that his pace will always be a weakness of his, so he must develop his positional sense and with that a better reading of the game.
Just as Luke Shaw does, Harry always puts effort in and fights for the shirt.

Ten Hag must address Harry’s delusions of grandeur, as he isn’t as good a defender as he thinks he is. A period out of the team would go a long way in not only addressing Harry’s form when required, but would also give him a reality check as well.

I don’t know why some fans think they can read players minds. I don't know how you can claim to know Maguires opinion of himself, that Shaw has too much to say or that the other 3 think they're "above everyone else".

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I don't know how to identify a 'bad apple'. I've never seen Pogba as such for example. He's not unprofessional, but just badly suited to us at this stage and to an extent the PL given the conditions.

I'm not bothered about the rest because they will stay or go based on the managers verdict. But Rashford worries me because he's got this whole face of the club/academy circus around him and you feel he may be one of those who are imposed on the manager who has to make it work. It would be just like us to regard his horrible performances over the last 1.5 /1 year with a nice contract. Maybe to time it with a few half decent performances. It's the same worry with Ronaldo too, to an extent.

 

[432JuanMata]

I agree that the English players we have are overrated. Even so, putting effort in and fighting for the shirt, goes a long way. We are just not seeing that with Lingard, Rashford, and Pogba. In my opinion it has gone on for far too long with them, and it is my view that they are beyond salvageable.

Lingard tries he is just not good enough. Maguire is not good enough , Rashford, Pogba and Shaw are shameful when it comes to effort.

What I meant about English players is they are so expensive due to the hype and the worst part is this English squad/players is one of the best in years and we don’t have any of the better ones.

 

[The Oracle]

Absolutely mental to suggest that Harry Maguire has more to offer United than Rashford going forward. Rashford is bereft of confidence while Maguire is bereft of ability.

We are yet to see a quality defensive midfielder play in front of Maguire in a United shirt.

Maguire's weakness is his pace, which can be addressed with developing a better positional sense and reading of the game. There is ability there, we see it when he's in an England shirt.

Rashford's weakness is his attitude. Rashford is never going to change his attitude, his ego is too big for him to be able to do that.

 

[Kramer]

Absolutely mental to suggest that Harry Maguire has more to offer United than Rashford going forward. Rashford is bereft of confidence while Maguire is bereft of ability.

Basically this. Very accurate.

But I would have to sayIt’s come to a point where if there was an acceptable offer for Rashford, we really should consider it. And replace him with a better forward. He’s much better than what he’s currently showing but his decision making in the final third has always been suspect.

We have to be ruthless with our academy players as well. They can’t get a free pass for too long. It’s one of the things that made Sir Alex so great. He knew when to sell.

 

[432JuanMata]

We are yet to see a quality defensive midfielder play in front of Maguire in a United shirt.

Maguire's weakness is his pace, which can be addressed with developing a better positional sense and reading of the game. There is ability there, we see it when he's in an England shirt.

Rashford's weakness is his attitude. Rashford is never going to change his attitude, his ego is too big for him to be able to do that.

I’m with both of you’d in sense as I still feel that Maguire with a WC DM would still not be good enough but Rashford is mentally gone and it’s not form anymore and it’s been too long.

Could of been the injuries mixed with ego but overall Rashford needs to go

 

[432JuanMata]

Basically this. Very accurate.

But I would have to sayIt’s come to a point where if there was an acceptable offer for Rashford, we really should consider it. And replace him with a better forward. He’s much better than what he’s currently showing but his decision making in the final third has always been suspect.

We have to be ruthless with our academy players as well. They can’t get a free pass for too long. It’s one of the things that made Sir Alex so great. He knew when to sell.

This part is so true and even the fans fall for it I.e (local lad, Manchester true and true etc) yet that means nothing if they aren’t good enough.

 

[Tavern in the town]

One of the weirdest things about fans of any sport in general is the tendency to blame the good players rather than the shit ones. Imagine singling out these players who’ve all shown they can actually play quite well at various points for either club or country, when you’ve got blokes like McTominay and Wan-Bissaka stealing a living.

 

[Kramer]

We are yet to see a quality defensive midfielder play in front of Maguire in a United shirt.

Maguire's weakness is his pace, which can be addressed with developing a better positional sense and reading of the game. There is ability there, we see it when he's in an England shirt.

Rashford's weakness is his attitude. Rashford is never going to change his attitude, his ego is too big for him to be able to do that.

Maguire is a better player than what he’s showing yes. But he is not good enough if we want to get back to the top.

His pace will only reduce further. And his passing ability is vastly overrated. You can see Varane, Lindelof are much quicker and better passers.

And he simply does not have what it takes to be captain of Manchester United, that much is also clear.

His price tag is not his fault. But sadly, he will always fall well short of expectations. He’s at least a couple levels below the kind of defender we need.

 

[The Oracle]

I don’t know why some fans think they can read players minds. I don't know how you can claim to know Maguires opinion of himself, that Shaw has too much to say or that the other 3 think they're "above everyone else".

We know Maguire's opinion of himself because he has told us all in his most recent interview!

Shaw does have too much to say, and it was insightful when he said that he knew he would outlast Mourinho at United. Just look at what was going on in the press before Ten Hag was announced, it was claimed Shaw was preferring a reunion with Pochettino because they used to share car journeys to training.

As for Lingard, Rashford, and Pogba, it is my opinion that they don't put effort in, or show any fight, and that translates as them thinking they are above doing that, and leaving it to everyone else on the pitch to do.

 

[dave2528]

Absolutely mental to suggest that Harry Maguire has more to offer United than Rashford going forward. Rashford is bereft of confidence while Maguire is bereft of ability.

This.

Rashford has natural physical ability and has produced in the past.

Maguire plays like his boots and skull are full of cement.

 

[The Oracle]

I don't know how to identify a 'bad apple'. I've never seen Pogba as such for example. He's not unprofessional, but just badly suited to us at this stage and to an extent the PL given the conditions.

I'm not bothered about the rest because they will stay or go based on the managers verdict. But Rashford worries me because he's got this whole face of the club/academy circus around him and you feel he may be one of those who are imposed on the manager who has to make it work. It would be just like us to regard his horrible performances over the last 1.5 /1 year with a nice contract. Maybe to time it with a few half decent performances. It's the same worry with Ronaldo too, to an extent.

Just last month he was in the press saying that he has wasted 5 years at Manchester United.

At the time he said that, we were in the hunt for 4th place and Champions League football next season.
Rather than knuckle down for the team, he just though of himself and brought negativity.

 

[The Oracle]

Basically this. Very accurate.

But I would have to sayIt’s come to a point where if there was an acceptable offer for Rashford, we really should consider it. And replace him with a better forward. He’s much better than what he’s currently showing but his decision making in the final third has always been suspect.

We have to be ruthless with our academy players as well. They can’t get a free pass for too long. It’s one of the things that made Sir Alex so great. He knew when to sell.

This is very true of Rashford. Football intelligence just isn't there with him.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Just last month he was in the press saying that he has wasted 5 years at Manchester United.

It's true. He's wasted what should have been his prime years here in a broken team. At the same time wasted a world record fee on a player that obviously was nowhere near the level you'd expect. He said what we all knew anyway.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

This is very true of Rashford. Football intelligence just isn't there with him.

That's the thing. Rashford has never been a particularly smart player or one with impeccable technical skill in tight areas. He always produced numbers through his pace, trickery, unpredictability and good shot. The things he lacks though are crucial though especially as we want to move away from hit them on the break footy to front foot footy. And I don't have confidence that he will become the player many want unless he a) regains his MOJO and b) also plays in a less expansive system

 

[The Oracle]

Maguire is a better player than what he’s showing yes. But he is not good enough if we want to get back to the top.

His pace will only reduce further. And his passing ability is vastly overrated. You can see Varane, Lindelof are much quicker and better passers.

And he simply does not have what it takes to be captain of Manchester United, that much is also clear.

His price tag is not his fault. But sadly, he will always fall well short of expectations. He’s at least a couple levels below the kind of defender we need.

From his England performances we know there is a good player there.

I do agree that he will never be mentioned in the very top tier of the best defenders in the world, but that doesn't mean to say that he can't be a good defender for United.

If it is the case that Ten Hag eventually wants to bring in a very top tier defender, then that very top tier defender would replace Harry Maguire for sure, because as it currently stands Varane is the better defender of the two (he just needs to stay off the treatment table).

 

[Jibbs]

Absolutely mental to suggest that Harry Maguire has more to offer United than Rashford going forward. Rashford is bereft of confidence while Maguire is bereft of ability.

Not really, I think under a manager like ETH Maguire will shine, I see no hope for Rashford as a starter for United. If he agrees to play as second fiddle to Sancho only then we should keep him, otherwise he should better be sold.

 

[I Am Zlatan]

Just last month he was in the press saying that he has wasted 5 years at Manchester United.

At the time he said that, we were in the hunt for 4th place and Champions League football next season.
Rather than knuckle down for the team, he just though of himself and brought negativity.

He said that? Do you have a link? Maybe he should have helped the team win trophies then..

 

[RC89]

Absolutely mental to suggest that Harry Maguire has more to offer United than Rashford going forward. Rashford is bereft of confidence while Maguire is bereft of ability.

Agreed. I do think Rashford may need a new start elsewhere but Maguire is a special kid of useless.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

This.

Rashford has natural physical ability and has produced in the past.

Maguire plays like his boots and skull are full of cement.

Rashford produced 2 years ago before his back injury occurred. Please don’t use that as a reason to think he can return to form now especially with how technically limited he already is

 

[BaneIsPain]

I would replace Shaw with Martial. Shaw still has something to offer although we should be looking for a better replacement.

 

[Samid]

One of the weirdest things about fans of any sport in general is the tendency to blame the good players rather than the shit ones. Imagine singling out these players who’ve all shown they can actually play quite well at various points for either club or country, when you’ve got blokes like McTominay and Wan-Bissaka stealing a living.

Daft to bring McTominay into this. Bad apples refers to people who have a bad influence on the rest of the group. McT might not be the most talented player but attitude wise there is nothing wrong with him. Same with Dan James who was a scapegoat for two years here. If the so called ‘good players’ had the attitude of these two we wouldn’t be in the mess we are in.

In a squad of 25 players you can’t have 25 superstars. McT is fine as a backup player, he won’t be kicking up a fuss being a fringe player. Compare that to the absolute circus from Pogba and Rashford’s PR teams whenever they rightfully find themselves on the bench. Those are the bad apples we need to be weeding out first.

 

[The Oracle]

He said that? Do you have a link? Maybe he should have helped the team win trophies then..

Said at the time we were chasing top 4 and Champions League football next season:
"You have to be honest, the last five seasons have not satisfied me – really not at all. This year it is dead, we won't win anything."

Then goes on to undermine Rangnick in the same interview:
"I get along very well with [Deschamps], he gave me a role that I know, but at Manchester United do I really have a role? I ask the question but I don't have an answer."

Disrutpive. Unprofessional. I'll be glad once he leaves, and it can't come soon enough.


https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/paul-pogba-man-utd-contract-26534158

 

[Bebestation]

Is it a thing that English players or just overrated so when they don’t turn out that good it’s a shock. As 4 you mentioned are English throw in AWB and we really have some poor English players

I hate the English player are average sh*te.

What about Mata?

Martial?

Pogba?

Bailly?

Dalot?

Telles?

Amad for 30 million after 5 games?

So many players but everyone is all fine with the players who play here on a different passport.

 

[The Oracle]

Daft to bring McTominay into this. Bad apples refers to people who have a bad influence on the rest of the group. McT might not be the most talented player but attitude wise there is nothing wrong with him. Same with Dan James who was a scapegoat for two years here. If the so called ‘good players’ had the attitude of these two we wouldn’t be in the mess we are in.

In a squad of 25 players you can’t have 25 superstars. McT is fine as a backup player, he won’t be kicking up a fuss being a fringe player. Compare that to the absolute circus from Pogba and Rashford’s PR teams whenever they rightfully find themselves on the bench. Those are the bad apples we need to be weeding out first.

Well said, and very true.

Having the right attitude goes a long way.

 

[skc_18]

How things have changed in a span of two years.
Maguire , AWB singings were seen as english revolution at the club, and in two years , most of the english players are very underwhelming. Not saying Maguire and Awb caused this, but who knows what would have happened if we hired non-english players instead.
Maguire, Shaw, Awb, Rashford, Lingard , Greenwood, Henderson. Its possible all of these will either be gone or will be limited to bench (we have to worry about quota too). Glad that sancho turned it around. Shaw and Rashford most likely would stay in first 11 but others I doubt. This worries me because I think we will end up buying 1-2 english players (kane/rice) and spend most of the budget on them.

 

[Idxomer]

The problem with Shaw is that he doesn't always put the effort in and daydreams while defending. He's our most talented footballer, so there's still a little bit of hope with him. There's no hope with Maguire, he has always been a mediocre defender even at his best. I haven't seen any evidence of him always fighting for the shirt whatever that means.

Rashford isn't good enough for any starting position and effort has little to do with that.

 

[skc_18]

Daft to bring McTominay into this. Bad apples refers to people who have a bad influence on the rest of the group. McT might not be the most talented player but attitude wise there is nothing wrong with him. Same with Dan James who was a scapegoat for two years here. If the so called ‘good players’ had the attitude of these two we wouldn’t be in the mess we are in.

In a squad of 25 players you can’t have 25 superstars. McT is fine as a backup player, he won’t be kicking up a fuss being a fringe player. Compare that to the absolute circus from Pogba and Rashford’s PR teams whenever they rightfully find themselves on the bench. Those are the bad apples we need to be weeding out first.

Spot on. I dont understand why people bring McT into discussion. Guy is on reserve player wage. Does not moan if not started every game , keeps his head down and works hard. Everyone including him knows he is not world-class but we need players like him.

 

[Cman]

I have been wondering about this. The new manager will want a total buy in from the playing group into his playing style and training.
This group of players haven’t tried hard enough for a long time now. Think the new manager will need to change the old guard in the dressing room if he is to turn things around.
Seeing the back of Pogba and Lingard can only help in this regard but we are also losing Mata and Matic who would have been positive influences in the dressing room, I feel we may need to rid our dressing room of more players that bring negativity in order to get the balance right.

I think Rashford, Shaw and Maguire could all have something to offer on the pitch next season but if any of them or any other player for that matter has an attitude that is stinking up the joint then I think we need to move them on.
We have been carrying to much deadwood for too long now. If the new manager is to be successful then he need to be ruthless.

 

[Idxomer]

Spot on. I dont understand why people bring McT into discussion. Guy is on reserve player wage. Does not moan if not started every game , keeps his head down and works hard. Everyone including him knows he is not world-class but we need players like him.

A big myth is that McTominay works hard, watch him the next time he jogs back to defend after we lose the ball. He's another player who has a standing in the team that far exceeds his qualities.

 

[In Rainbows]

I don't know how we can single out these players when it's almost the entire squad who have been terrible. McTominay for example doesn't track runners and he was just as defensive about his ability as Maguire was when interviewed.

 

[PaulAlwaysScholesAGoal]

Not really, I think under a manager like ETH Maguire will shine, I see no hope for Rashford as a starter for United. If he agrees to play as second fiddle to Sancho only then we should keep him, otherwise he should better be sold.

Absolutely no chance, he's quite literally the opposite of what ETH wants in a cb, his lack of not just speed but mobility is the issue.

Imagine us wanting to play a higher line near the half way line, you could play 3 of the best cdms and we'd still be screwed by a simple ball over the top. His physical limit tion would drag the whole team back 15-20 yards

 

[Tarrou]

I disagree with this notion entirely and it's just illogical to blame the players when it's as clear as day that the way the club has been run is the root cause of our issues

the club and squad morale is in the toilet, and has been for years for the most part

new (and highly successful) players join, perform well for a while and then turn to shite

Bruno was world class at first but is now struggling, he mentality was elite when he joined

we'd have to be the unluckiest club in the world for this to be a coincidence and we've somehow acquired a large group of top-level pros who are lazy/unprofessional.

It's not a coincidence though, the problem is the club and not the players.

it's like when a well-intentioned cop joins a corrupt police force, they might stand-firm for a while but after a year or two they end up bent just like the the rest of them