I think most comments on here are dopey as shit to be fair.How's it dopey when it's almost verbatim from some of the posts in here post-arsenal? How many more times are people going to look for the simplest answer over and over and not expand that it's much more complex than a manager?
Should probably compare him to Ole’s first six months then for a fair comparisonYes but he's also picked up a team in complete meltdown (under Ole).
Its an objective discussion. Whether or not its fair is irrelevant to our league position. We are missing out on CL this season, and Ralf is the interim manager. Both objective facts.Ole would have missed top 4 in 2019-2020, if he hadn't spend 200 millions and Leicester had collapsed. And he was already the manager for 6 months in the previous season. LVG missed it in his second season. Yet, people expected that RR would secure top 4 with a team that was losing right and left, and with losing one key player and 2 squad options in the winter.
OK.
Not really.Should probably compare him to Ole’s first six months then for a fair comparison
So much of that post is made with your Utd brand spectacles on.He’s sometimes tactically weak and more outspoken but I don’t know what more coaching can Ralf do for getting us top 4? This team can’t press for more than 30 min, our striking option is only a 37y old, no reinforcements in January + lingard, PRashford dressing room leaks to media.
The reason his interim job looks failure is, Individual errors and penalty misses by our players + referee union is clear that we don’t reach top 4 or fa cup wins.
Remember how many open play chances we missed since his appointment + an important penalty yesterday. I’m sure if we did finish our chances, we’d be 10-12 points ahead in table. We need players who don’t succumb to pressure, we need players who has the character to challenge referees, we need players to follow coach’s instructions.
I see his appointment as first step of a major change towards the club’s future. Looking forward to his remaining press conferences because that’s far more entertaining than the match.
Well not really. When Ralf came in we were on the back of a victory in Villarreal (Europa League champions), a draw at Chelsea (Champions League holders) and a win over Arsenal. Things were looking up.Not really.
We are far worse off this time. Defence has completely lost confidence with Maguire and Shaw falling to pieces. Even young talents like Rashford and Martial who were quite good back then have become rubbish. We were in a better place when Jose left in terms of individual player form.
But weren’t those exact accusations levelled against Mourinho’s last few months? I struggle to see how you think that player confidence and team unity was lower when Mourinho was sacked than when OGS was sacked.Not really.
We are far worse off this time. Defence has completely lost confidence with Maguire and Shaw falling to pieces. Even young talents like Rashford and Martial who were quite good back then have become rubbish. We were in a better place when Jose left in terms of individual player form.
Trying to change the negative individualistic bullshit style of play that Jose and Ole instilled will result in pain.Well not really. When Ralf came in we were on the back of a victory in Villarreal (Europa League champions), a draw at Chelsea (Champions League holders) and a win over Arsenal. Things were looking up.
The weeks before that we’re very poor, we put wheels back on and Ralf undid the nuts so they came straight back off.
Ditto OGS picking up after Mourinho. That’s generally what happens when you change a manager mid season.Yes but he's also picked up a team in complete meltdown (under Ole).
Not always. Depends on the circumstances and the form/mindset of the players in charge.Ditto OGS picking up after Mourinho. That’s generally what happens when you change a manager mid season.
I agree with that to be fair.Not always. Depends on the circumstances and the form/mindset of the players in charge.
Either I prefer us losing top 4 and getting ETH than bumbling our way somehow into top 4 and 5 years of mediocrity under Ole.
I fully agree with the last paragraph, for what it’s worth.Trying to change the negative individualistic bullshit style of play that Jose and Ole instilled will result in pain.
And we didn't put the weeks back on. We had a couple of okay results in a miserable season where lost Greenwood, rashford, martial, Maguire, awb, Shaw etc in one way or another. I've never seen such a collapse in form at United. When Jose left the individuals weren't doing as badly. Although his management was getting worse. Hence there was more room for thr bump.
Either way it doesn't matter. This culling of the squad is what is needed. Papering over Crack in Ole fashion will not result in success.
That's a gross exaggeration. And he's been here SIX MONTHS already. At what point is it going to be his fault? I'm asking you.Yes but he's also picked up a team in complete meltdown (under Ole).
I don't think it's the same situation. The team was in a meltdown almost purely because of the manager at that time, so Ole coming in was able to quickly refresh everything. A lot of the key players were also young and still seemed hungry.Should probably compare him to Ole’s first six months then for a fair comparison
You’ve conveniently ignored the open play chances we missed and dressing room leaks that I highlighted as reasons.So much of that post is made with your Utd brand spectacles on.
-Prem stats show that you missed 2 pens this season, and that you had 2 pens missed *against* you this season.
-Almost all goals involve individual errors, you just only remember the ones your players commit
- Referees Union? I don’t know a single fan of any club who comes away after a disappointing season/result without blaming the ref somewhere along the line. You’re just doing that classic thing of looking to blame external factors because you are emotionally invested in the result and it’s nice to have a 3rd party to pin your frustrations on.
Win% all matches:I’m not sure of the relevance of picking OGS worst half-season and Mourinho’s worst half-season as comparators. I don’t know the stats but surely over their tenures both JM and OGS were both significantly better. Which means he’s achieved worse results than all his predecessors since Moyes left.
I'll answer you. Can we say RR is at fault for this abysmal season? No, that's more down to Ole and efforts in 'building' this team which resulted in the first half of the season collapse and partly on RR for failing to turn it around. Has RR does a good job as manager ? Of course not. I've been massively disappointed by him as our manager. But at the same time I believe it's important to give him an important role at the executive level to help build us back up.That's a gross exaggeration. And he's been here SIX MONTHS already. At what point is it going to be his fault? I'm asking you.
Oh I fully agree it’s long term probably the right move. Albeit him straight in above a manager who could perform that role better would have been preferable, but I’ve no issue. As I mentioned… somewhere on here earlier this morning, we’re in a ripping the plaster off stage. We kinda just have to grin and bear it.I don't think it's the same situation. The team was in a meltdown almost purely because of the manager at that time, so Ole coming in was able to quickly refresh everything. A lot of the key players were also young and still seemed hungry.
There seems to be a lot more wrong now than just unhappiness with the manager, so Rangnick wasn't able to get such an easy new manager bounce (he still did get one, just not to the same extreme). A lot of those same players are still here now and they are in the middle (or later) of their career and seem completely set in their ways, not willing to go out of their comfort zone. Our decline in results over the last two months has also coincided with a very significant injury list which I think people don't take into account. Shaw, Varane, Lindelof, Fred, Mctominay, Pogba, Ronaldo, Cavani have all had periods out, while we loaned Martial out and then immediately lost Greenwood as well.
Put it this way, the situation was so bad that I'm not sure that even Conte (who has a decent claim to be one of the top 5 managers in the world) would have been able to get us top 4. Obviously he would have had a better chance than Rangnick did and I don't think things would have gotten quite so bad, but it's very debatable one way or the other. And then obviously Conte would have wanted the job fulltime, and we would have continued another couple of seasons of defensive boring football with a toxic collapse (at least between Conte and the board) at the end of it. There's no way to know for sure yet, but the hope is that Rangnick will be the best long-term appointment. If it turns out we don't really listen to any of the recommendations that he makes then yes, it was a poor appointment. But hopefully that won't be the case.
There isn’t a conspiracy. It’s embarrassing to suggest there is. Every football fan in the world can point to X amount of incidents in a season to “prove” a conspiracy against their club.You’ve conveniently ignored the open play chances we missed and dressing room leaks that I highlighted as reasons.
Individual errors happens but try watching Maguire defensive errors this season, you’d know what I mean.
And have you seen the fa cup boro handball incident leading to goal + cedric pushing the ball away yesterday? Sounds silly but Its hard to disbelieve conspiracy.
Agree with you.I would be very harsh with Rangnick myself if:
1. He took charge before the season started and had bought players he believe in and sold some he don’t believe in.
2. Did not inherit a club and players who was already fecked up.
3. A team that has spit out manager after manager.
He never stood a chance imo. The most important thing now is a ruthless clear out from top to bottom. Without one we will just continue this bad pattern.
I agree it's not fair on Ole to only talk about what happened this season, but that is the direct situation that Rangnick walked into. As you said something went very wrong this season, and that had the effect that both Ole and Rangnick were put in an almost no-win situation. If it's not fair to judge Ole on that (the one who built the team over the last few years) it's something that absolutely needs to be taken into account when talking about Rangnick's reign.Win% all matches:
Mourinho 58.33% (2nd best win% as United manager, Sir Alex nr 1 at 59.67%
Ole 54.17% ( 3rd best, belive it or not)
Rangnick 40.00% (13th best)
Also, Rangnick has the lowest goals scored per game(1,32) since caretaker manager Jimmy Murphy in 1958. Ole has the highest goals per game (1,92) since Sir Matt Busbys first periode (45-69).
Something went really, really wrong this season, but cherry picking those few terrible months to prove how bad he was, isn't fair on Ole. He wasn't great, but far from as hopeless as most United fans claims.
The context and understanding of his wider remit that Rangnick supporters have shown here is made up. It's contradicted by basically every public and private statement made by him and anyone involved with the club. It's fantasy and wishful thinking, not reality.Fact is you have no idea about him. You're just looking at results rather than any context or understanding of his wider remit.
I’ve no way of calculating the open play chances you refer to, but again I’d assume you are more likely to remember the chances you missed rather than the chances you got away with. If you continually miss good chances and your opponents don’t then that would be reflected in xG, right? You’d at least have one form of objective opinion to back up your point. How many missed chances do you think city or Liverpool have had this season? I’d put money on them having had more failed chances than Utd have had.You’ve conveniently ignored the open play chances we missed and dressing room leaks that I highlighted as reasons.
Individual errors happens but try watching Maguire defensive errors this season, you’d know what I mean.
And have you seen the fa cup boro handball incident leading to goal + cedric pushing the ball away yesterday? Sounds silly but Its hard to disbelieve conspiracy.
Win% all matches:
Mourinho 58.33% (2nd best win% as United manager, Sir Alex nr 1 at 59.67%
Ole 54.17% ( 3rd best, belive it or not)
Rangnick 40.00% (13th best)
Exactly, it’s like saying that other than that time a striker scored 7 goals in 5 games, his goal return has been poor. It’s so obviously illogical.
Also, Rangnick has the lowest goals scored per game(1,32) since caretaker manager Jimmy Murphy in 1958. Ole has the highest goals per game (1,92) since Sir Matt Busbys first periode (45-69).
Something went really, really wrong this season, but cherry picking those few terrible months to prove how bad he was, isn't fair on Ole. He wasn't great, but far from as hopeless as most United fans claims.
The team was NOT in complete meltdown when Ole left and was salvageable when Rangnick came in. He rocked up in November, which was more than enough time to have an impact. I would give him credit if he had at least steadied the ship but under him we ARE in total meltdown.I'll answer you. Can we say RR is at fault for this abysmal season? No, that's more down to Ole and efforts in 'building' this team which resulted in the first half of the season collapse and partly on RR for failing to turn it around. Has RR does a good job as manager ? Of course not. I've been massively disappointed by him as our manager. But at the same time I believe it's important to give him an important role at the executive level to help build us back up.
Exactly, he's said numerous times that he basically doesn't know what his role will be at the end of the season and his job has been to focus on getting results.The context and understanding of his wider remit that Rangnick supporters have shown here is made up. It's contradicted by basically every public and private statement made by him and anyone involved with the club. It's fantasy and wishful thinking, not reality.
I would like someone to explain why this has not been done sooner. It is even now not a given it will be done, though I think it will now. It’s just so blatantly obvious it must be done. It has been obvious for quite some time.Agree with you.
The primary reason he never stood a chance was down to the players and player power going unchecked. Mainly down to Ole.
There are far too many factions within the club. None of them pulling in the same direction. And yet another manager (lamb to the slaughter) will not succeed until that player power faction is routed out once and for all.
To my mind, that has to be the absolute number 1 priority.
Kick them out of the club and replace with hungry players with the right character and attitude.
Clearly not reading properlyThe team was NOT in complete meltdown when Ole left and was salvageable when Rangnick came in. He rocked up in November, which was more than enough time to have an impact. I would give him credit if he had at least steadied the ship but under him we ARE in total meltdown.
You can't pin it all on Ole and absolve Rangnick of any responsibility. The fact is the team is a lot worse under him, however people want to dress it up or make excuses.
Oh yes, Rangnick was handed a real problem. I would have hoped to see more progress made in six months, but it was never an easy job.If it's not fair to judge Ole on that (the one who built the team over the last few years) it's something that absolutely needs to be taken into account when talking about Rangnick's reign.
True, but if he said they were amazing etc would they even be getting replaced this summer? Yes he should be getting better results but I'm glad he's been saying what he’s saying - in public and to the board - because now it looks like things are actually set to maybe change for the better for the first time in over 10 odd years. I can live with some bad results and no CL football for a season if it means the longer term future of the club finally gets on the right track starting this summer.It does seems like Ralf has come in and told the club higher ups that the current team needs replacing. Which is good news for the future but he shouldn’t be surprised the players he is calling shite aren’t listening to him.
Your posts on this subject are starting to make little sense mate. First off Ralf Rangnick is here to manage Manchester United, that is and has been his one and only job since December and will be until next month.INTERIM manager with a 2 year consultancy role. What do you think is the more significant role? It’s an easy one, I’m sure you and others will figure it out soon.
How do you know private statements made by him?The context and understanding of his wider remit that Rangnick supporters have shown here is made up. It's contradicted by basically every public and private statement made by him and anyone involved with the club. It's fantasy and wishful thinking, not reality.
The point is that he's not there to win games. He's there to do an extended pre-season and highlight what needs doing in order to implement a successful transition to Gegenpress. Getting fourth would have been a bonus.I dont doubt Ralf has a lot to contribute, but we are letting the "gegenpress scholar" articles color the discussion a bit much here.
I'd take no top 4 and a broken squad for 6 months if it meant we had a proper structure and picture of how we will reshape the squad, hire the new manager and implement a proper style beyond then.Your posts on this subject are starting to make little sense mate. First off Ralf Rangnick is here to manage Manchester United, that is and has been his one and only job since December and will be until next month.
As for which job is more significant, yeah it is an easy one. The manager's job Interim or otherwise is more significant to the fortunes of the club and by a fair stretch than any part time role up stairs. And going of his last press conference Ralf doesn't even sound too sure that he will be at United for the next 2 years as a consultant.
For what it's worth Ed Woodward is also rumoured to be taking up a consultancy role, do you think he'll also have a more significant role than the manager?
Brilliant idea and one that actually exposes the players even more:Should probably compare him to Ole’s first six months then for a fair comparison
I made a point about Rangnicks last 15 games. So all I'm doing is comparing like for like. Having said that Solskjaer (or any manager) probably would have also got sacked after the last 7 games as well. Certainly I don't see how manager permanent manager could have survived the run of form we've had since January.Because A) recent results give a better indication of the direction you are headed in hence a board judging Ole would give far more importance to abysmal form in the last 7 than a few wins before that. B) Ole was managing the team when we completely fell apart so he has a big hand in our failures this season as a whole (not just till he was sacked). This void of confidence and disharmony happened under his tutelage. Rangnick couldn't fix it of course.
A miracle?I think the results of his term as manager have been poor. How much is due to the fact that he is interim amd the players don't care I don't know. I think the Glazers hoped he could perform a miracle and get top 4. But without investing in January, I think they probably were not that serious about making top 4. Anyway, it no longer matters. Clean slate incoming. And Ralf will use his stint as interim to point out which parts need pruning and which parts need burning.
Usually but that's assuming the club actually had/s a plan in mind for what his role (if any) will actually be. Ralf has been here for 6 month's and even he doesn't seem to know what his position will be and what responsibilities he will have.You could be right, but I read it as that the contract is with his company for a certain period of consultancy.
If he was employed by the club directly, he surely would have been given a proper title?
