The latter is often is the former sprinkled with nostalgia. Not that I have an opinion on GOAT conversations, I've never seen most of the candidates.
Van Dijk revisited
- Thread starter Pexbo
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People these days are desperate to label things the greatest ever, it’s odd.
I don't feel that they are desperate, they are genuinely ignorant and think that the world start and end with themselves.
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I've noticed there's a lot of people these days that don't possess this ability. To recognise that they don't know much about a subject and then acknowledge someone who knows more. No, they'll just argue with them confidently instead and never learn anything.
He's good,real good.
He's what? 30 , still relatively young for a center back, if he keeps his level for another few years , he would have a shout.
Frankly I still don't think hes anywhere near baressi level or even rio level but maybe I'm just having my rose tinted glasses on so can't say for sure.
He's what? 30 , still relatively young for a center back, if he keeps his level for another few years , he would have a shout.
Frankly I still don't think hes anywhere near baressi level or even rio level but maybe I'm just having my rose tinted glasses on so can't say for sure.
He's the best CB around at the moment but he doesn't get close to prime Rio or prime Vidic for me.
It's a combination of Dunning-Kruger and the internet.
Sorry but in terms of prime the likes of Vidic Terry et al have to be ranked lower than VVD(prime years) because they have clear deficiencies in their game that the likes of VVD RIo or Nesta didn’t have.
Terry and Vidic couldn’t play in the super high lines we see nowadays and be of the same incredible level because they both had a lack of pace and athleticism that the likes of VVD and Nesta had, yet those two could play in all systems.
The same thing which makes VVD better than Dias is what puts him ahead of Vidic and Terry also, career wise he would have to win a couple more leagues and have a couple more seasons on this level to be definitively ahead of them though but if we’re talking prime he’s a bit ahead.
Best CB for some years now. Goat? Nope. In my opinion a lot of teams in Europe and the competition got significantly weaker throughout the years and it’s easier for him to stand out.
He wins 1 league and 1 CL in a team that many call one of the greatest English teams ever (which is ridiculous anyway) and he's a GOAT? Can anyone see the hypocrisy?
Personally, I think he's got more of a claim than Vidic
I'm sorry, but that's just nonsense. Vidic and Rio (along with VDS) still hold the record in the PL for most minutes without a goal conceded, which was 11 matches without a goal. That's not accounting the other cup competitions. At their peak they were an impregnable wall.
And I'm sick of hearing about this high line nonsense and high pressing football like they were discovered by Guardiola and Klopp or something. United played a lot more gung ho prior to the sale of Ronaldo than anything Klopp has done. And with the same amount of intensity. Some people should seriously go back and watch some football before the 2010's. You guys are acting like football was just discovered 5 years ago.
Maldini is the GOAT. End of.
He's not the GOAT centre back. He's very probably the GOAT left back and on that basis along with with his world class later career CB performances he has a credible case for the best defender ever. Still not the GOAT CB - no one in their right mind would pick Maldini at CB over Maldini at LB.
He's not the best CB of all time, but I don't think there's been a time where the gap between the best and the rest has been so evident. No one else comes close to his dominance right now.
Vidic is still the best EPL CB I've ever seen
Ok so does that also make VDS the best GK in PL era, that stat you posted? Or Neville the best rb, I never argued Vidic was not a great Cb, but it’s not nonsense at all to say he ha deficiencies VVD never had because it’s simply the truth.Vidic wasn’t quick VVD is, while also being good in the air, Vidic wasn’t great at passing the ball, VVD is.
Fergusons United team never played the high line that Guardiola or Klopps team did, it seems you’re arguing with emotion rather than reason, I never mentioned anything about ‘Gung ho’ I mentioned high defensive lines, in Klopp and Guardiolas system the line is higher I seriously struggle to see how you would even argue that but I’m interested for you to prove me wrong.:..
I might be wrong but i don't think Rio was part of that record much. The only two consistent in that run were VDS and Vidic and Vidic was easily the best player in the league that season. That stupid game against Torres cost him the player of the year award I think.
Maldini has to go down the greatest of all time surely?
Majority of teams don’t play out and out strikers anymore.
Van Dijk plays in a very different era than even the likes of Rio played in.
Van Dijk plays in a very different era than even the likes of Rio played in.
It's ineffective to play with those against them. How are you gonna get close to their box? Chicken and egg.
I think he is case in point as to why players have to be so careful how they manage their careers. I don’t think he would be so far ahead if he hadn’t picked a manager that has the ability to elevate his players so high above their stations. Klopp did it for so many at Dortmund who never hit the same heights again.
If VDV was at Real or Barca, he would just be one of the top 10. He has come into the right team at the right time and it’s paying dividends.
Basically, unless you are a Balon D’or level icon, be careful who you play for, because it can make and break your legacy. A lot of these Liverpool players are maxing out because of who they are playing for.
If VDV was at Real or Barca, he would just be one of the top 10. He has come into the right team at the right time and it’s paying dividends.
Basically, unless you are a Balon D’or level icon, be careful who you play for, because it can make and break your legacy. A lot of these Liverpool players are maxing out because of who they are playing for.
Nonsense. The games just changed.
If Chelsea had a prime Drogba you think he’d be ineffective.
Van Dijk is brilliant no doubt. I think it’s very much recency bias to say he’s the best CB of all time.
Fixed.
Baresi tore his miniscus (knee injury) in the 2nd game of the '94 World Cup. Should have been out for 6-8 weeks or longer. Had an operation immediately, made it back for the final somehow and put in a performance worthy of the gods vs. Brazil.
Maldini was the best LB I've ever seen, and he was a very good CB, but Baresi is in a world of his own.
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Baresi or Nesta?
Baresi.
When you look at the defensive records of teams in Serie A in the 80's and 90's, and then you realise that Serie A teams had stars in teams even fighting for relegation. Strongest league I've ever seen in my life, and for Franco to be the best of the best in that period, that era. Astonishing.
Jesus why did you timestamp it at the moment of heart break, was it some sort of a cruel attempt at tarnishing his legacy.
Jesus why did you timestamp it at the moment of heart break, was it some sort of a cruel attempt at tarnishing his legacy.
I didn't even realise I did it! I've watched this video so many times it must have resumed at my last place and I copied it from there by accident.Sorry Franco!
Edit: Fixed.
Fair point. GOAT defender then
Pretty much this. Everyone was in the dark ages, kicking pig skins, in a reverse Christmas tree formation before Van Dijk invented defending.
The best I have seen over the years include Baresi, Maldini, Nesta, Cannavaro, Desailly, Thuram, Stam, Rio, Vidic, Ramos.
I’d say VVD is definitely as good as most of them.
And he is the best out of current era for sure.
I’d say VVD is definitely as good as most of them.
And he is the best out of current era for sure.
When he retires he will be looked as a GOAT.
Great player for our Rivals.
Great player for our Rivals.
Has he surpassed Diego Godin levels of importance to the team?
To call him the GOAT is ludicrous. Milan for example played an inane high libe for years under Sacchi and Capello. Baressi, Malidini and fo hardly conceded goals in the best damn league around. Year in year out.
One of the biggest marks against him is he isn't facing any special forwards. Just like in combat, you make your name as a CB off who and what you face. It's not his fault, but there is a dearth when it comes to special forwards in the CL and PL. He doesn't have many epic contests to his name to be measured against, and in a season where Liverpool might win it all, even his main obstacle in City, don't even have a recognised striker let alone one for the ages.
Practically all the great defenders are immediately recognised and defined by the great strikers they contained or were more than a match for; Nesta is a veritable who's who of great forwards contests from pre-injury Ronaldo (his biggest claim to fame) to Messi when Nesta was past his athletic prime. Baresi has Romario, Maradona and a whole of others he is measured by and so on and so forth.
VVD may be on for one of the greatest seasons ever seen and yet he's faced nobody in the CL and the PL is barren (also seen by the terrible top scorer tallies this season), these are not even good yet alone great barometers to measure him against. He's clearly a special defender, but it's like dominating a weak division in combat sports; you're never going to be the equal of those who were forces in golden ages who had their mettle tested time and again in a gladiatorial cauldron.
Practically all the great defenders are immediately recognised and defined by the great strikers they contained or were more than a match for; Nesta is a veritable who's who of great forwards contests from pre-injury Ronaldo (his biggest claim to fame) to Messi when Nesta was past his athletic prime. Baresi has Romario, Maradona and a whole of others he is measured by and so on and so forth.
VVD may be on for one of the greatest seasons ever seen and yet he's faced nobody in the CL and the PL is barren (also seen by the terrible top scorer tallies this season), these are not even good yet alone great barometers to measure him against. He's clearly a special defender, but it's like dominating a weak division in combat sports; you're never going to be the equal of those who were forces in golden ages who had their mettle tested time and again in a gladiatorial cauldron.
Not saying Van Dijk IS the GOAT, but is there not something to be said for mentioning for who they are playing alongside?
People are talking about how great Baresi, Maldini, Rio, Vidic are - of course and they may well be better defenders. But they DID have each other to play alongside, whilst Van Dijk's defensive partners like Matip, Konate, Gomez - whilst good players that have played really well at times arguably aren't close to that sort of level.
People are talking about how great Baresi, Maldini, Rio, Vidic are - of course and they may well be better defenders. But they DID have each other to play alongside, whilst Van Dijk's defensive partners like Matip, Konate, Gomez - whilst good players that have played really well at times arguably aren't close to that sort of level.
Think some stuff has been lost in translation. VVD looks like a goat people. It's the facial hair.
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3rd UCL final in 4 and half years. Was injured for nearly a year.
It's absolutely insane how influential this guy is in an era which is very attacker-friendly.
As far as PL CBs go, he has the best Prime ever imho. Does he even have a single weakness in his game? So complete and superior to his peers.
He's a very good player, but, when speaking about the best in history, we'll also think about trophies, longevity and the type of opposition he plays against. If you take that into consideration, he's not even in the top 10 of all time in terms of defenders.
In terms of pure peak, yep, he's up there with Rio as the best in the EPL.
If he plays on this level for 3-4 more years he will definitely be the GOAT of defenders.
And he is nowhere near being the GOAT Defender, he has a chance to be the best of his time/maybe era and to be considered among the second tier of all time defenders.
But when it comes to the the best defender of alltime, he is clearly lacking in ball playing ability in comparison to his competition.
Just two names:
Beckenbauer
Baresi
Case closed.
(Seriously: Some posters need definitely a lesson in football history)