I'm not saying they are, buit surely that stereotype still exists? Even within the gay community there's the so called "butch" lesbians.
With men it's the opposite, which can partly explain why it's harder to come out for a male footballer.
Gay footballers | Czech Republic international Jakub Jankto comes out as gay
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
With men it's the opposite, which can partly explain why it's harder to come out for a male footballer.
Not many, if any.
You've got it the wrong way round.
Why's that?
As a positive, I can see the first professional footballer to come out making a fortune out of it. I think they’ll get loads of positive media attention which will lead to lots of promotional opportunities and an almost guaranteed media career when they retire, if not before.
That wouldn't be particularly surprising.
Anyway, even if it's just one, that's still a huge discrepancy (I mean the openly-to-closet ratio).
Might also add that it's apparently very common that a fair number of team mates (like Evra in this case) know that someone is gay - but that those players prefer to keep their sexuality away from the public gaze, as it were.
Yeah this is definitely the case. Of course some are the case where literally no one knows, but there's plenty of footballers where it is an open secret, with teammates, and even other footballers and professionals knowing about their sexual orientation.
There are definitely a good number of gay fotballers in both the Premier League and Championship. Even bisexual.
Its not that uncommon, and the only reason we dont hear about it is not because their teammates wouldnt be supportive, I fully believe they absolutely would. It is because we still have losers in this world that would cause a huge scene about it, and I cant blame them for not wanting that noise in their lives. Oh yeah and its frankly none of our business regardless.
Good post.
Around 2% of the UK population identifies as LGB, and it has been estimated (by Kinsey amongst others) that the true figure is as high as 10%.
Now it may be that some industries/professions have a higher rate of LGB representation than others, but it would stand to reason that there was at least 1 gay player per squad (when you include reserves, youth etc).
All it'll take is a big-name player to come out, and then we'll see a flood.
I'd like to think so too.
The main reason why so many remain in the closet is - sadly - the fans.
I think that is getting smaller and smaller, there are lots of LGBTQ+ groups at clubs these days, and you regularly see flags and banners in support of that community, which is great to see, that definitely wouldn't have been the case a decade or so ago.
One day it will be seen as totally normal. Unfortuently mens football is a bit behind the times in thia regard thanks to a lot of the stigmas already covered and a minority section of hard-core intolerant supporters who will undoubtedly have a field day sadly.
There's been a lot of progress in recent times that doesn't get the positive attention it should. For example my younger cousin told me there's multiple openly same sex couples in his school and it's widely accepted across the board. That was unheard of as recently as the 00's (when I was in high school), even a teacher said it would take a very brave person to admit to being LGBT at our school.
As we filter through the generations we will see less and less hateful people which will eventually filter through to football the way it has in schools and many other proffesions.
Yes, it's changing - thankfully.
But there are still problems with "fan culture" - in some countries more than in others.
And then you - still - have a huge problem with online "fan culture", where all sorts of "isms" are still rampant.
This will change, I fully believe that, but it will still take some time.
Having high-profile players coming out will - obviously - speed up this process. But, like others have said, I don't hold it against any individual (high-profile) player that he doesn't fancy being a trailblazer.
Don't mean to offend anyone but majority of Football fans have always come across as a bit tribal, primitive and old school to me.
This might be why it's not accepted in men's Football while it's much more progressive in the women's game.
Football fans seem to promote toxic masculinity and stuff which is why we see so many players trying to pull the wannabe hardman act which is cringeworthy.
This might be why it's not accepted in men's Football while it's much more progressive in the women's game.
Football fans seem to promote toxic masculinity and stuff which is why we see so many players trying to pull the wannabe hardman act which is cringeworthy.
With regards to gay footballers in the men v women's game are people that surprised that these are seen differently?
I'm 50 now, so sort of old school in many aspects. When I was in school any girls interested in the "male sports" were automatically labelled lesbian's. I mean even the female PE staff were labelled lesbian's. Gives without saying that they weren't.
Similarly any lad who wasn't what the Americans term a "jock" as in played football, cricket or rugby was labelled gay.
I'm not from UK originally and the country I'm from is now known mainly for cricket. As a kid it was about the men's hockey team. One of my first gifts from an uncle wasn't a football or cricket equipment but a hockey stick.
Coming to the UK there was no men's hockey in the school system. Only the girls played hockey. At sixth form (which for us was a separate college) I had the option of mixed hockey and picked it. I was one of two blokes. I had my friends saying "you gay mate". Didn't last long as England men's did well in the hockey WC and Imran Sherwani was someone I knew well. Had gone to the same 6th form and came in to show off his medals.
Anyway I digress. The point is that to me the accepting of gay female footballers is not really unusual and not comparable to make gay players and any stick they may get. We were kind of conditioned to it. If that makes sense
I appreciate I am an old fart and this may come across as maybe backwards thinking to some and I certainly don't mean any disrespect here. I just think it's social conditioning to a degree.
Just as an anecdote when I was at uni I took an Indian lass on a date. She was football mad and was in the women's team the uni had (mid 90's ish). On our date she said she was surprised I'd asked her out. I asked why and she said most lads thought she was gay as she was in the football team and loved footie.
After I left uni I worked in a few different towns before returning to my home town. I met a lad I'd been to school and we had some martial arts together when younger.
As we talked he told me he had come out as gay a few years earlier. Had an interesting conversation with him about the how's and when's sort of thing. He said he found it difficult as he was quite sporty and into Martial arts so gay men didn't think he would be gay. Yet girls/women weren't a problem in the dating sense. When they found out he was gay they said they wouldn't have thought so as he was quite "manly".
Again this is just my experience here so not suggesting it's gospel. However I do think the mindset plays a role.
I'm 50 now, so sort of old school in many aspects. When I was in school any girls interested in the "male sports" were automatically labelled lesbian's. I mean even the female PE staff were labelled lesbian's. Gives without saying that they weren't.
Similarly any lad who wasn't what the Americans term a "jock" as in played football, cricket or rugby was labelled gay.
I'm not from UK originally and the country I'm from is now known mainly for cricket. As a kid it was about the men's hockey team. One of my first gifts from an uncle wasn't a football or cricket equipment but a hockey stick.
Coming to the UK there was no men's hockey in the school system. Only the girls played hockey. At sixth form (which for us was a separate college) I had the option of mixed hockey and picked it. I was one of two blokes. I had my friends saying "you gay mate". Didn't last long as England men's did well in the hockey WC and Imran Sherwani was someone I knew well. Had gone to the same 6th form and came in to show off his medals.
Anyway I digress. The point is that to me the accepting of gay female footballers is not really unusual and not comparable to make gay players and any stick they may get. We were kind of conditioned to it. If that makes sense
I appreciate I am an old fart and this may come across as maybe backwards thinking to some and I certainly don't mean any disrespect here. I just think it's social conditioning to a degree.
Just as an anecdote when I was at uni I took an Indian lass on a date. She was football mad and was in the women's team the uni had (mid 90's ish). On our date she said she was surprised I'd asked her out. I asked why and she said most lads thought she was gay as she was in the football team and loved footie.
After I left uni I worked in a few different towns before returning to my home town. I met a lad I'd been to school and we had some martial arts together when younger.
As we talked he told me he had come out as gay a few years earlier. Had an interesting conversation with him about the how's and when's sort of thing. He said he found it difficult as he was quite sporty and into Martial arts so gay men didn't think he would be gay. Yet girls/women weren't a problem in the dating sense. When they found out he was gay they said they wouldn't have thought so as he was quite "manly".
Again this is just my experience here so not suggesting it's gospel. However I do think the mindset plays a role.
yeah agree. feels like we're at a tipping-point right now doesn't it.
For the sake of progress, it would be great if a player who doesn't fit the stereotypes at all (i.e. a real hard man) came out as gay, just to bust the myths once and for all.
I agree it's not a super convincing argument, but does the same really apply to the women's game too? I don't think women's youth football is even close to being this hyper-competitive quasi-industry that men's youth football is, where the best talents are fairly isolated from anything non-football related if they want to succeed. Apart from some national team level players, women also don't get much public attention either I don't think.
It might be the same sport, but I don't think men and women's football are equivalents that you can draw any meaningful conclusions from regarding absence of openly gay male football players. In terms of support, money, profession and many other things it's an entirely different ball game (sorry).
Besides, it's also not easy to draw parallels between gay and lesbian acceptance in professional sports, because again it's not really equivalent in terms of how the public views either. I already elaborated on some of that in an earlier reply to you, but IMO I think you have to look at both sports in isolation because there are different factors at play.
To be honest I find the over representation of lesbians in women's football almost more fascinating than the sad absence of openly gay male players. There are some interesting theories as to why that is the case in women's football (and likely has been from the start). Personally I think when you identify as LGBT you're already breaking away from society's expectations in you, i.e. be heterosexual, have kids etc, hence following other societal "rules" loses importance. For instance I believe LGBT couples are statistically more likely to be non-monogamous/polyamorous than straight people, because why not? If your monogamous relationship is already frowned upon, why stick to society's standard if you're not so inclined. The same goes for gender expression to some extent. If society already looks down on you for your sexuality, some may think why not have a bit of fun and disregard gender stereotypes as well and dress flamboyantly for instance.
This disregarding gender stereotypes because you're already marginalised anyway I believe is part of why lesbians have been overrepresented in football from the start, at a time when it was still looked down on for women to compete in a contact sport. Another theory is that off-pitch team mingling proved to be a safe space for some women to express their sexuality, especially in drinking games.
So perhaps you could say lesbian players were always integral to the sport and a well-known secret before the women's game even started becoming more and more popular and professional recently.
I think that the problem gay footballers will face is highlighted by the problem non-white footballers do. On the face of it most fans will be fine and the footballers/fans who aren’t okay with it will generally hold it in, but when something happens such as a loss, a fight on the pitch etc. the true colours will show and you’ll have incidents of abuse at the ground and online. It isn’t surprising that people aren’t or haven’t come out yet within the game when the footballing authorities are still terrible at dealing and giving adequate punishment to racist fans and footballers. There may be a genuine fear that the same would occur if they were abused or if they missed a penalty.
I agree. I can imagine the chants already.
Jake Daniels of blackpool has just come out as gay. 17 and just made his first team debut.
about time this happens
about time this happens
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Good for him, it is good that he feels that he is able to do so.
Good luck to him.
Happy for him. Brave thing to do and wish him the best.
Good for him.
Jake Daniels and coke please
Very brave, comes across very well in the interview and discusses his struggles to come out and impact on his mental health and he considered waiting until he retires. Best of luck to him.
Well done to him, and I actually think the response to this will be really positive - hopefully he gets a great reception at the next match. There’s always going to be idiots but I’m optimistic this will be well received generally.
Hopefully this encourages or at the very least helps others to feel that they can come out, he could lead the way.
I wish him honestly nothing but all of the very best with this.
I wish him honestly nothing but all of the very best with this.
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Fair play to him. Sounds like he's got great support around him, both at home and at his club which is great to see.
Hopefully this can kickstart the beginning of the end for young lads feeling like they don't have a place being themselves in football.
Hopefully this can kickstart the beginning of the end for young lads feeling like they don't have a place being themselves in football.
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Seems like a smart guy. Wish him all the best.
Good on him, sounds like he told the club and others a few months ago and it was kept under wraps which is nice to hear too.
17 going on 35
All the best Jake.
Madness/Maddening that this is the first British professional since Justin Fashanu to be able to be who they are. Hopefully it can be a catalyst for huge change.
Madness/Maddening that this is the first British professional since Justin Fashanu to be able to be who they are. Hopefully it can be a catalyst for huge change.
That is a really great thing. Makes it easier for others to test the water, before jumping in. Knowing that there are people who can be trusted with this, just makes things a whole lot easier.
How would he know? He'd probably know for the clubs he played for, obviously.
Brilliant news.
Encouraging stuff for the game, great to see; I hope he gets a great reception in his next game!
There is going to be a less PC version of that on Sickipedia soon I'm sure
But in all seriousness good on him. Hopefully the general public will react in a supportive way to make it easier for other gay footballers.