I think most straight women don't mind thinking about Lesbians having sex so much either
Gay footballers | Czech Republic international Jakub Jankto comes out as gay
- Thread starter Pablo76
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I find that homophobia is alive and well in men's football at a time when its been largely blunted in the women's game.
How many do you think there are in, say, the Premier League?
I hate that this is a thing. Why do people think they have any right to have an opinion on somebody else’s sexuality?! Blows my mind. Hopefully this guy comes out and gets overwhelming supports and can encourage others to do the same.
The thing that really winds me up is that they use the same silhouette graphic for this that they use when they’re not allowed to reveal the identity of a pedophile, adulterer or criminal.
Or which United players had a fight
The first problem would come from the teammates and coaches themselves. Footballers aren't exactly a bright group.
People have a misconception of gays being sex hungry perverts who always go around looking for sex with other men, so that makes them a easy victim for sexual abuse or verbal or even physical abuse due to other men's own insecurities.
Ofcourse people should be accepted as people regardless of whom they prefer to have sex with(except for pedos and animal ones, sorry I am not broad minded enough to accept those scumbags, I prefer all of them dead), but world especially a male dominated, toxic alpha mentality like men's football would take much longer.
Lesbains are not accepted either, if you think women don't receive abuse for their sexuality, than we are living in a fairy land made up in our mind. The reason women footballers don't receive much hate is because they are not main stream. They are accepted as long as they as protrayed as a sex symbol, the moment a lesbian is in their family or friends' circle, you will see how a male(or even female) reacts. Just because men are happy to see two girls in action in porn does not mean they are comfortable with someone from their family and friends being same sex preferring female. And it isn't just men, even women are mighty homophobes.
But I think as long as we have brave men and women coming out, it will help in normalizing. Humans are afraid of anything they are ignorant of. Just like few decades ago, jeans on a female was seen as indecent, but now it is not as taboo as it was before. I think the most important thing is we need more shows and mainstream media or social media showing LGBTQ+ as normal people(yes they are, I know, but there are still billions of idiots who do not understand it).
There's always been so much speculation about how the first currently active football player (in a top league/country) would come out, whether it would be a big name etc, but maybe it was always more likely that it would happen like this, as in a youth player coming out publicly before their own career perhaps really takes off, rather than an established player coming out to the shock of many.
Attitudes towards homosexuality have changed so rapidly in the past decade even, that a gay person born in the early 90s would likely have a very different experience growing up and coming to terms with their sexuality than a gay person born just a few years later in the late 90s and onwards ( generation z). The article suggests that the player in question had told his family and has their support (presumably for a while already I'm guessing), and reading between the lines some team mates knew and others were told very recently. Everyone's journey to self-acceptance and understanding themselves is individual and different of course, but I think many young people of this generation probably come to terms with their sexuality quicker, or at least aren't as troubled by questioning it as previous generations. A big reason for that is simply exposure in society and mainstream media. Even in Hip hop, formerly one of the most "heterosexual" subcultures, there are a number of artists nowadays who are openly LGBT and it's become almost a non-issue surprisingly quickly. That kind of attitude shift among young people in particular must've reached youth football as well to some extent.
Whenever this topic of gay football players comes up, the discussion seems to always centre around the big obstacle of homophobic football culture and potential abuse from the stands. I'm sure that plays a substantial role in a player's decision whether to come out or keep it secret, and facing that kind of abuse and the huge attention a coming out would cause would be very difficult of course. I mean no one dreams about being talked about so much simply because of something so innate and personal as their sexuality. But I think the predominantly heterosexual football fans discussing this here and elsewhere often somewhat overlook the other factor, that personally I'd probably find just as difficult, if not more so. While some gay players in the game currently may well be out to their team mates, family and friends but just not to the public, I imagine most probably aren't out to all or even any of them. The thing about coming out is, the longer you wait the more likely it is that it's become not just a matter of having omitted a small detail about yourself to people close to you, but probably you've started with small lies here and there to detract from a question you don't want to be confronted with, which can then compound into more and larger lies the older you get. Especially if you grow up in as laddish an environment as youth football, at a certain age all your team mates start becoming interested in girls, everyone talks about it and inevitably you get questions too. Little white lies can turn into a web of lies, or confused relationships can turn into doomed or fake marriages. The mental barrier becomes steeper, and confronting it more difficult. Obviously that's not always the case, some players may just keep to themselves but either way that constant paranoia can take its toll on a person. As much as homophobic fans may be a cause for concern, I could imagine it might be easier to blur out noise from strangers than having to confront childhood friends and team mates and tell them you're gay, worrying what they will think of you now. Not to mention that some team mates may well be more homophobic than your average fan, and you'll have to see and interact with them daily. Then again it's not really important which aspect is the hardest, because by going public you're inevitably also coming out to everyone close to you, while you don't necessarily have to let the whole world know when only confiding in some people in your life. But probably that's part of the reason not more players have come out publicly, because that first step is already too difficult.
No matter which generation, people will continue to accept their sexuality at different ages, but I imagine the average coming out age will decline further. By the sounds of it this young player presumably wasn't hiding his sexuality for very long, and already has the support from the people close to him so I reckon as challenging as everything must have been for him to navigate at his age, he probably doesn't have quite as much baggage about all this than someone who's tormented himself over their sexuality for more years. And that's a good thing, hopefully he's well equipped for everything that's to come. In the past I'm sure many young players in his position possibly dropped out at some point, or if they went professional maybe never entirely fulfilled their potential because of the huge mental burden of it all. A bit early since it hasn't happened yet, but if this story is true that's great news and I hope it sets a good example for other players in the same boat. I think the public's reaction will be overwhelmingly supportive, although I'm sure most gay players still wouldn't want to receive the kind of media attention he will receive. But after every story, the next story should become easier.
Attitudes towards homosexuality have changed so rapidly in the past decade even, that a gay person born in the early 90s would likely have a very different experience growing up and coming to terms with their sexuality than a gay person born just a few years later in the late 90s and onwards ( generation z). The article suggests that the player in question had told his family and has their support (presumably for a while already I'm guessing), and reading between the lines some team mates knew and others were told very recently. Everyone's journey to self-acceptance and understanding themselves is individual and different of course, but I think many young people of this generation probably come to terms with their sexuality quicker, or at least aren't as troubled by questioning it as previous generations. A big reason for that is simply exposure in society and mainstream media. Even in Hip hop, formerly one of the most "heterosexual" subcultures, there are a number of artists nowadays who are openly LGBT and it's become almost a non-issue surprisingly quickly. That kind of attitude shift among young people in particular must've reached youth football as well to some extent.
Whenever this topic of gay football players comes up, the discussion seems to always centre around the big obstacle of homophobic football culture and potential abuse from the stands. I'm sure that plays a substantial role in a player's decision whether to come out or keep it secret, and facing that kind of abuse and the huge attention a coming out would cause would be very difficult of course. I mean no one dreams about being talked about so much simply because of something so innate and personal as their sexuality. But I think the predominantly heterosexual football fans discussing this here and elsewhere often somewhat overlook the other factor, that personally I'd probably find just as difficult, if not more so. While some gay players in the game currently may well be out to their team mates, family and friends but just not to the public, I imagine most probably aren't out to all or even any of them. The thing about coming out is, the longer you wait the more likely it is that it's become not just a matter of having omitted a small detail about yourself to people close to you, but probably you've started with small lies here and there to detract from a question you don't want to be confronted with, which can then compound into more and larger lies the older you get. Especially if you grow up in as laddish an environment as youth football, at a certain age all your team mates start becoming interested in girls, everyone talks about it and inevitably you get questions too. Little white lies can turn into a web of lies, or confused relationships can turn into doomed or fake marriages. The mental barrier becomes steeper, and confronting it more difficult. Obviously that's not always the case, some players may just keep to themselves but either way that constant paranoia can take its toll on a person. As much as homophobic fans may be a cause for concern, I could imagine it might be easier to blur out noise from strangers than having to confront childhood friends and team mates and tell them you're gay, worrying what they will think of you now. Not to mention that some team mates may well be more homophobic than your average fan, and you'll have to see and interact with them daily. Then again it's not really important which aspect is the hardest, because by going public you're inevitably also coming out to everyone close to you, while you don't necessarily have to let the whole world know when only confiding in some people in your life. But probably that's part of the reason not more players have come out publicly, because that first step is already too difficult.
No matter which generation, people will continue to accept their sexuality at different ages, but I imagine the average coming out age will decline further. By the sounds of it this young player presumably wasn't hiding his sexuality for very long, and already has the support from the people close to him so I reckon as challenging as everything must have been for him to navigate at his age, he probably doesn't have quite as much baggage about all this than someone who's tormented himself over their sexuality for more years. And that's a good thing, hopefully he's well equipped for everything that's to come. In the past I'm sure many young players in his position possibly dropped out at some point, or if they went professional maybe never entirely fulfilled their potential because of the huge mental burden of it all. A bit early since it hasn't happened yet, but if this story is true that's great news and I hope it sets a good example for other players in the same boat. I think the public's reaction will be overwhelmingly supportive, although I'm sure most gay players still wouldn't want to receive the kind of media attention he will receive. But after every story, the next story should become easier.
Indeed, there’s a negative connotation to it, like the person in question is in shame.
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Would be interesting to know the % of gay footballers in the league. I would assume it sits somewhere around the national average, perhaps a little lower. That would still put it in the 2-3% range.
There shouldn't be but obviously is an issue with being gay in football or there would be far more 'out' players. Somewhat of a shame in this day and age.
There shouldn't be but obviously is an issue with being gay in football or there would be far more 'out' players. Somewhat of a shame in this day and age.
The problem is with putting a number on the amount of gay players is who do you define as gay?
Those who you could define as purely gay may be a small percentage but there will likely be even more who are "bicurious", bisexual and perhaps pansexual.
I’ve absolutely no doubt whatsoever that footballers coming out would have been a thing years ago (just as it is in all other areas of society and the majority of sports) if the Premier League and Premier League clubs weren’t sucking so hard on the teet of ultra-conservative markets and governments in the Middle and Far East.
What on earth do you mean by women's footballers are not main stream, of course they are, millions watch the women's World Cup, thousands go to games on a regular basis, the WSL has a TV deal with Sky and the BBC, what more are you thinking needs to be done to be mainstream exactly??!!
Is actual homophobia preventing people from coming out or is it fear of homophobia?
I think, aside from the expected tasteless chants, people would be much more accepting of gay footballers than a lot of people think.
Okay, social media will be bad probably, but it is bad for pretty much everyone who is in the public eye in someway.
I think, aside from the expected tasteless chants, people would be much more accepting of gay footballers than a lot of people think.
Okay, social media will be bad probably, but it is bad for pretty much everyone who is in the public eye in someway.
The thing is though the Premier league spends a month covering itself in rainbow flags, laces, armbands etc.
I think a single gay player or even a few would be an easier sell to those markets than lgbtq+ flags and messages.
Roy Keane would be fuming, they're supposed to be opposition, they should be spitting on each other and going in hard instead.
Maybe they did after
Your country is quickly turning into a backwater hillbilly place where people with no teeth and no education get to decide important stuff. Just look at the abortion question in Texas... seriously frightening.
To get on topic... when you see our official facebook page change their picture to something like a rainbow you quickly see all these homophobes get angry. Sadly it seems to be their religion that affects their way of thinking. Feel free to stop supporting United, go support some other team.
Imo religion is like your dick... you have every right to be proud of it and wave it around... BUT... in your own home! Don't go around showing it to people you don't know and shove it down their throats!
Not necessarily - some industries have a massively different balance of gender, ethnicity etc. vs. the population as a whole. The same would apply to sexuality as well.
There are lots of reasons for this - in the case of the industry I work in (digital) we're massively under-represented in certain teams by females, and overall as a business by the BAME community. This is being partially addressed by the hiring process, but we're currently constrained by the mix of candidates that apply - with the cause of this mix being at grass roots level (eg, certain sections of society don't see our industry as a viable or appealing career option, making choices early on in life which take them down another path).
We're therefore working with educational establishments to reach out to kids of all backgrounds to showcase the opportunity they might have in our sector. This strategy may not have an impact for years, but it's one that needs to happen now.
The same can be same of football - kids of certain backgrounds might be discouraged to follow this path due to their own background, and this would logically include their sexual orientation as well given that homophobia is a problem in the sport - not just at elite level but even (perhaps especially) at school level.
I’m a software developer and develop Apps for some huge international names and they always provide us with their internationalisation rules. For example a certain TV network which is known for Cartoons have strict rules for the Middle East around certain gestures, females cannot have cleavage on display, no hint of cross dressing etc etc.
I’d be interested to know if the production in these countries is very careful to display that sort of content as little as possible. Different camera shots when the big LGBQT+ flags are on display, that sort of thing.
With the streams we have and the number of posters based in the Middle and Far East it would be interesting to know if there is any obvious effort to hide these thing.
Has anyone posted the issues are alive and well in X while they have been largely blunted in Y yet?
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Oh wow, it's on this page, How did I miss that.Scroll up
Possibly so, I wouldn't expect anyone with international ambitions to come out before the World Cup in Qatar.
It's many different factors I reckon. I get what you mean by actual homophobia versus fear of homophobia, but I'm not sure it's the right question to ask because outright or blatant homophobia might not be the most feared aspect in the first place. At least in my opinion it's probably a more general (warranted or unwarranted) fear of everything changing once your sexuality is out in the open, and it's not a step you can take back either. Basically coming out publicly boils down to a singular decision with so many potential consequences, including homophobia but also many others. From unwanted attention, to fear of forever being associated with this one aspect of your person, relationship dynamics changing, people treating you differently, perhaps being pressured into being a role model / activist role that you're not ready for etc etc
Coming out in general (not just publicly) is obviously an important step for mental health for a lot of people, but in the short term it's also a lot to deal with and can come with a weird adjustment period that you maybe just want to put off and are tempted to avoid for the time being, especially if you're busy with life.
I imagine it's such a big step that a player might just think why me, or why now? I have a match to play on saturday, I'll think about it next year
Or the team behind **********.
All of that could indeed be factors, but then why the huge contrast with women's footballers, don't they all have to deal with the same issues on a mental level?
Yet there are sooo many that are out there, and there doesn't seem to be any issues with them being gay, it is just unbelievable the contrast between the women's and men's game in this area.
Without meaning to be shallow it will be disappointing if he isn’t hot
It's a credit to the women's game that it is way more tolerant, but as ever, you're trying to draw direct parallels between the men's and women's games, which doesn't work.
It’s not that unbelievable it pretty much reflects society as it is
which is much more homophobic against gay men than lesbian women
that’s not to say lesbian women don’t have it tough too, but it’s always been different
Fair enough, I can imagine (or actually - I can't) it must be a life changing decision to come out, especially if you're somewhat famous.
It's a pity though, I think it could snowball pretty quickly to the point where it's not a big deal anymore.
You'd be surprised at how fast people get used to things. Gay marriage was legalised in Belgium in 2003, by 2011 we had a gay prime minister and it wasn't even a news item.
I think part of it comes down to expectations based on gender stereotypes which in turn influence or are somewhat connected to stereotypes concerning sexuality. Women who excel in athletic sports or more specifically sports that are traditionally seen as masculine are perhaps less expected to conform to stereotypically feminine traits, e.g. a young girl playing football with the boys is a 'tomboy'. People then maybe conflate lower expectation of femininity with lower expectation of heterosexuality. In contrast, it could be that people have higher expectations of masculinity for male football players than for your average man, which again gets mixed up with lower expectations of homosexuality.
That and probably a bunch of other reasons such as different attitudes to male versus female homosexuality.
There have been multiple gay professional footballers in America. Why do you think there is such an unbelievable contrast between the men’s game and the men’s game in this area?
Not entirely sure of your question here sorry......
Yeah I agree it could become normal very quickly.
I know it's a bit armchair psychology but the thought just occurred to me. Another reason why I think it might be more difficult in football is the fact that professional players from early on are continuously in these small or closed groups like their youth teams, academies and clubs, and then when they make it they're constantly under the media spotlight. I'm speculating a bit here, but I reckon them not getting developmental time or breaks away from these groups or the spotlight maybe makes it harder for the gay players among them to find the mental space to figure themselves out better (or maybe even to some extent for every player in general to develop as an individual outside of this group setting)?
Football players maybe don't have that adolescence that many others do, with (potential for) significant changes along the way. They can't easily be like people in school who move somewhere else after graduating, maybe university or a job, and just grow into being a different person/adult or even reinvent themselves kind of. Not that reinventing yourself is necessary for coming out at all obviously, but I think perhaps constantly being in a certain setting or group of people can make some changes and self-reflection more difficult. Football players obviously are also people and have personalities outside of their profession, but at the same time they're football players from the age of 10 or whatever and stay football players until they retire, often even beyond that sort of. I reckon it's easy to just get caught up in the group dynamic and flow of that life, and not give yourself the chance to reflect because football is the highest priority, and suddenly your life is under a microscope of public scrutiny. The group(s) and the media know you a certain way, therefore you stay that way.
I don't know, maybe it's nonsense, maybe there’s a little bit to it.
All of what you say there goes for women's players as well, being in closed groups, academies etc, and being under the spotlight, yet there doesn't seem to be any issues within the women's game, so not sure that I agree with your analysis here.
Have you played yourself? When I was playing as a kid, there was huge emphasis on being though, being a man, not being a pussy. Think that plays a role, seeing how gay men are seen by some as effeminate (and gay women are seen as manly).
It was a long while ago when I was a child sadly, and I would hope that times have changed since I was in such close knit groups.
I disagree with gay women being seen as manly, not sure where that comes from, there are plenty of gay women that don't fit such a stereotype.