Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Talk about peeing on his parade after yesterdays gameYeah, probably. What a start to the season. Already one strike down.
That fecker said that yesterday
Thanks for that, seems a flakey way of doing business! I for one hope it back fires on them
That depends on what the provisions are. What seems to be the widely accepted knowledge was that the deferred wages was outlined in an annex that stated his payments for the two seasons would be paid as part of his remaining salary from the coming seasons. If that original contract is terminated due to a transfer they could argue that the extra salary was part of his normal salary they they no longer need to pay since he will transfer to another club.
It's not as straight forward always. People say that it would be thoughtless of De Jong representation to let him sign a deal that didn't outright guarantee him the remaining funds in the event of a sale. This wasn't necessary, since a sale depends on De Jong agreeing to it. So he still has the power to get his outstanding salary paid to agree to a sale, which is where we are now.
I don't trust those sources anymore
Yes not directly in one lump sum, but spread out, like they agreed to do when he deferred it. If they are trying to completely drop the deferred payments then that’s different. Short of paying him ourselves, there’s not much we can do.
Bizarre that they can even be allowed to sign players while owing wages to their own players. Especially if they are trying to force him out and use him leaving as a reason for not paying.
60%? We were at 95% weeks ago. Murtough and Arnold show up and push us back 35%?
This is such a boring saga. These two journalists are treated like they have a real inside line at United but when you read that they sound like two guys down the pub.
If there was any club that was willing to pay him increased wages on his previous Barca contract, Dembele would be playing there today. He was the stalling side for much of that contract standoff. Let's not pretend that he's likely to accept this because he loves playing there so darn much.
no he doesn't want that. but Barcelona said the exact same things last year to Dembele and one game later he started games again. This is not something that any club does with top players.
That would also be potentially illegal and the AFE already voiced their concern last season. This is just not going to happen. Nobody here really believes Laporta/Barca, except when it comes to ridiculous threats. That doesn't make any sense at all. Its just posturing.
I have flashbacks now. Me, dressed like bomb squad guy and cat behaving like Wolverine with all claws out and stuck in my vest.
Tried two times that. Never again
I meant the tweet, unless I’ve read it the wrong way round.
Barca will never pay up the 17m. Looks like thsi might drag till next year.
That quote is out of context compared to what he actually said, which didn't have as positive a spin on it.
This transfer has become one big mind fcuk, one day it's on, the next it's off and now it's stalling!
You're lucky to still have your eyeballsI have flashbacks now. Me, dressed like bomb squad guy and cat behaving like Wolverine with all claws out and stuck in my vest.
Tried two times that. Never again
They don't even need bathing.
When you leave your employment, does your employer continue to pay your wages because you've entered into a "legally binding contract"? Would said contract still be valid if you've signed a new contract with a different employer?
An employment contract is a different thing altogether.
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Exactly. Why would Barca pay him to leave? No chance his wage deferment gets resolved this window.
I have read that Barca still owe Messi in deferred wages, how did he manage to play for another team whilst still have this on going?
At this point I think you're wumming. But one final attempt.
Dembele had no leverage to keep (or increase) his salary for a new contract. He could only accept what Barca (or other clubs) were willing to offer. His current contract was up so he had to accept a pay cut otherwise he would not have a contract with anyone or be paid anything.
De Jong and other players under contract doesn't have to accept a pay cut. The only reason to would be to stay on good terms with the club, and hopefully be offered an improved contract next time (if they are young enough to warrant another contract) or a gentlemans agreement for improved contract offer once Barca's finances are better.
De Jong can say he doesn't want to leave Barca because then they have to pay him all the money they owe and the agreed salary for the next coming years. If they can't afford to they will be bankrupt. So it's in Barca's best interest to come to an agreement with De Jong now. If he says he's not willing to decrease his salary that means that he has no interest in maintaining a good relationship with Barcelona. He wants to be paid what he is owed, either now or over the next years.
What is Plan B?
I agree if he was offered more he'd go there, he recently stated he went to Barca simply for the money in the original deal anyway.
Still doesn't change the fact he's earning 40% less now though, he shouldn't probably be earning that even cause he's rubbish.
Nah, I think the protests would ramp up again if they don’t deliver this window. Avram said they will spend on signings on camera, Arnold told the blokes at the pub the money is there and the new manager must have had assurances he will be backed. We’ve already seen people trying to protest this summer, I think it will get apocalyptic if our signings aren’t exciting enough, even more so if results are poor when the season starts.
Given their dodgy financial situation, would the Barca money-men be shelling out on transfers without assurances of recouping a large portion of it back on FDJ? It doesn't seem likely to me.
I'm confident this transfer will be wrapped up within a fortnight based on that alone.
I'm confident this transfer will be wrapped up within a fortnight based on that alone.
Even if you were Catalonian and born on the pitch, how could you stomach staying when they are trying to double cross you on wages you agreed to defer to help them out of a mess. They then also try to reduce the wages all in the time they are trying to sign shinny new toys with your money. It has to be a contractual stance to say he still wants to stay.
Also if they are selling off future revenue with these levers surely they should be trying to reduce wages as for the next 25 years they will be earning less.
Also if they are selling off future revenue with these levers surely they should be trying to reduce wages as for the next 25 years they will be earning less.
Look I understand Dembele and FDJ are different situations.
Feel free to go back to my original statement, I simply said he has agreed to take 40% less what he was on originally / eg a pay cut!
All the rest is immaterial about FDJ.
Pretty sure that like with Messi, Barca can come to an agreement with De Jong to pay him x money over x amount of years. Money they owe him but which wouldn't necessarily be classified as salary on the books in the sense that De Jong couldn't have this agreement while at the same time be employed somewhere else.
Barca is just trying to avoid having to have that deal, or get De Jong to agree to as low as possible sum for the deferred salary. It's up to who blinks first to get this resolved.
There's no such thing. And according to some on here, not necessary.
The glazers keep the dust on the cheque book
@Ali Dia could you do a job for us?
Shut the thread move on - he ain’t coming.
The failure to upgrade the midfield, and spending all summer on De Jong (which might not happen) is criminal. VDB is clearly not seen as a holding midfielder so we literally only have Mctominay and Fred - questionable whether either should be a regular starter.
I'm not buying that Garner, Hannibal or academy players are legitimate options for the PL at this point. We need at least 2 signings in there but cannot see it happening at all.
Exactly. Except FdJ is never going to blink so it's a bit ill considered. The most they will get is another deferral.
To be honest Frenkie doesn't need to blink. His salary as per his re-negotiated contract is going to be really nice, Barca can't afford it, so him saying I wont take a pay cut and I am not leaving means Barca will have to blink first.
I don't see it happening now as he will take nearly a 50% pay cut by joining utd and wants to stay at the best club in the world in his eyes, It will be interesting to see what goes on with his wages at Barca, he must be thinking whats going as Barca have just signed a few players so why not cough up what is owed.
It's material because you claimed that FDJ will accept a paycut, because all Barca players do, giving an example of Dembele just accepting a paycut. Which Dembele had to if he wanted to play for Barca. De Jong doesn't have to.
They accepted a paycut to stay on good terms with Barca and keep playing there. FDJ says he's not willing to accept a paycut. In other words he doesn't want to stay on good terms. So he's putting the ball in Barca's court to offer him his deferred wages so he agrees to the sale. Or another deal that he could accept (he could still lower his wages and stay, but that seems less likely now).
I actually think it will. There was an article last week that specifically mentioned the second lever as being the key. I can't pretend to understand this but basically if the deal goes through before that money is banked Barca would be obligated to use 70% of the transfer fee towards debt repayments leaving them with only 30% of whatever we give them which if you then deduct the deferred wages essentially would leave Barca with no proceeds to apply to their incoming deals. If they complete the deal after this payday loan hits they can use all of the transfer money for new signings, essentially it is the money for the Lewa deal and so Barca are happy to play their game of chicken with FDJ until then. Ultimately though, they are motivated to make the deal happen and once the cash comes in they can agree some sort of mutually agreeable payment plan over the back wages and once this happens Frenkie will consent to the transfer. That money is due to be in their accounts next week so we probably have another 7 days of the same stories being endlessly recycled until we find out if that is the case or not.
The 40% reduction is also a relatively recent development. Barca were offering him more, but Dembele, in his infinite wisdom, rejected it because he thought he was going to get more somewhere else.
He is just a really bad example to use to prove that players are willing to sacrifice anything to play at Barcelona.
That's precisely it. De Jong holds all the cards and there is no need for him to state anything different in public.
Barca is the one that needs this transfer to happen if De Jong isn't willing to lower his salary (and why should he?).
Barca's only hope is De Jong making a mistake, i.e. stating in public that he's open to a move. Hope that De Jong or United willingness to get the player into pre-season with the new club asap is bigger than De Jong's desire for the money he is owed (or us willing to pay parts of it as a compromise of sorts).
Our American owners will come out of this as victims of Barca and their greediness.
True, although He does tend to talk in generalities though, fiercely protective of his sources and confidentiality so take the 2-3 weeks with a pinch of salt.
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