tomaldinho1
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Who are the PL LBs you rate above him?I think he's decidedly average, fair play to City for somehow getting £30m for him, robbed them blind there.
Who are the PL LBs you rate above him?I think he's decidedly average, fair play to City for somehow getting £30m for him, robbed them blind there.
This. Needs others to cover for him at the back and average in midfield.I think he's decidedly average, fair play to City for somehow getting £30m for him, robbed them blind there.
Not who you were responding to, but off the top of my head:Who are the PL LBs you rate above him?
The funny thing is that I've heard this argument made for almost every player in Pep's starting 11. "Made to look better in Pep's system". I'd go on to juxtapose this against the idea of Pep being a fraud but it's late so I can only pray that Ten Hag has this bald sorcery of transforming middle of the road players into integral components of title winning squads...He sums up Arsenal right now. A decent, middle of the road player really. I think he's been made to look better than what he is in Pep's system surrounded by quality players. Very similar to Jesus in that regard.
Based on performance or reputation?Not who you were responding to, but off the top of my head:
Robertson
Chilwell
Cancelo
Cucurella
Shaw (if skinny)
Digne
Tierney
Probably in that order for me.
I don't think those two seasons were anything to write home about from him to be honest - he played ~1150 and ~1475 minutes those years in the league. Robertson and Cancelo have obviously put up multiple seasons that were better as you say, but Chilwell's last two years at Leicester and his first year and a half for Chelsea were both miles better. Shaw's last year at Southampton was better than either of those Zinchenko seasons, to say nothing of his 18/19 and 20/21 years. Also would strongly disagree that Digne and Tierney haven't had significantly better seasons than Zinchenko - from 18/19 to 20/21 Digne was phenomenal for Everton and in 20/21 Tierney was far better than Zinchenko ever has been.Based on performance or reputation?
I think of those names you've listed, very few (Robertson, Cancelo) have put together multiple complete seasons as Zinchenko has done at LB for a while (the 2018-19 and 2020-21 seasons come to mind). Shaw and Chilwell have shown they have higher ceilings of performance but they haven't done it consistently enough (due to injury and other factors). Cucurella, Digne and Tierney? No way, so far.
Opinions though, and all that...
Don't be fat shaming LukeNot who you were responding to, but off the top of my head:
Robertson
Chilwell
Cancelo
Cucurella
Shaw (if skinny)
Digne
Tierney
Probably in that order for me.
Who, me?Don't be fat shaming Luke
I get Cucurella is flavour of the month but not sure on that one, Shaw can’t come with a caveat and I disagree re Tierney and Digne.Not who you were responding to, but off the top of my head:
Robertson
Chilwell
Cancelo
Cucurella
Shaw (if skinny)
Digne
Tierney
Probably in that order for me.
No arsenal fan expects him to start over Tierney...I get Cucurella is flavour of the month but not sure on that one, Shaw can’t come with a caveat and I disagree re Tierney and Digne.
I guess I just fundamentally disagree. He's never played 1500 minutes in the league ever - if he was playing more regularly in a team that had to defend more often he'd be far more exposed. If we're being extremely charitable here he's an entirely mediocre defender.I get Cucurella is flavour of the month but not sure on that one, Shaw can’t come with a caveat and I disagree re Tierney and Digne.
Cancelo is in the same team so it’s basically Pool and Chelsea’s starting LB who are definitely above him and his own teammate. Even if I give you Cucurella he’s still top 5 LBs in the PL.
Are they expecting him to be fit then?No arsenal fan expects him to start over Tierney...
I think it’s more there aren’t really a lot of great LBs out there rather than him being incredible. By the end of this season we might be saying Shaw/Malacia are better and others or he might play LB and have a stormer for Arsenal although I have seen rumours of him in midfield.I guess I just fundamentally disagree. He's never played 1500 minutes in the league ever - if he was playing more regularly in a team that had to defend more often he'd be far more exposed. If we're being extremely charitable here he's an entirely mediocre defender.
I don't think he's close to the top 5 of PL left backs frankly. For me any of those that I mentioned would have contributed more and improved City had they been swapped.
Yeah I think that's totally fair - I just personally wouldn't anoint him as a great player given how limited his contributions have been in such a dominant team.I think it’s more there aren’t really a lot of great LBs out there rather than him being incredible. By the end of this season we might be saying Shaw/Malacia are better and others or he might play LB and have a stormer for Arsenal although I have seen rumours of him in midfield.
I guess we’ll see now at Arsenal how he does in a non dominant team.
Shaw has gone from one of the top 2 left backs in the world to 6th in the league when “skinny” in 12 months.Don't be fat shaming Luke
Shaw (if skinny)
I had him 5th to be fair!Shaw has gone from one of the top 2 left backs in the world to 6th in the league when “skinny” in 12 months.
Classic United over the past 9 years.
As I said, it is classic United over the past 9 years.I had him 5th to be fair!
And honestly he's the hardest to place in the list - could be anywhere genuinely. On the basis of last year he's not even a top 10 PL left back; on the basis of two years ago he's the best in the league. Hope for his sake that the regime change will give him a kick up the arse a la Ole.
Ah apologies - totally misread it and thought you were taking objection to my post.As I said, it is classic United over the past 9 years.
Every one of our “stars” has massive performance swings season on season based on manager and media pressure.
This is definitely opinions based, everyone has one and what not, so take mine with a grain of salt.I don't think those two seasons were anything to write home about from him to be honest - he played ~1150 and ~1475 minutes those years in the league. Robertson and Cancelo have obviously put up multiple seasons that were better as you say, but Chilwell's last two years at Leicester and his first year and a half for Chelsea were both miles better. Shaw's last year at Southampton was better than either of those Zinchenko seasons, to say nothing of his 18/19 and 20/21 years. Also would strongly disagree that Digne and Tierney haven't had significantly better seasons than Zinchenko - from 18/19 to 20/21 Digne was phenomenal for Everton and in 20/21 Tierney was far better than Zinchenko ever has been.
I just view him as a pure passenger in that City team - only useful because he happens to be left footed and better on the ball than Nathan Ake. For me he's a far better midfielder than a LB - always feel like he is easily exposed both positionally and in 1v1s when he's at left back (e.g. in the CL final for the Havertz goal).
That said, it's very much my own opinion - but I don't think it's a coincidence that City are trying to replace him with Cucurella hence my preference. If they were swapped last year I'd have a hard time believing that Brighton would have been better off personally.
From what I see of City fans, I think they think of him very similarly to how Chelsea fans view Azpilicueta. A cheap signing who's managed to hold his own in a squad full of expensive signings, great attitude and character, similar diminutive style, popular in the dressing room and a cult hero with fans, & can play a couple of different positions to good effect. Not the most spectacular of players but nearly always dependable and the type that every good squad needs.Yeah I think that's totally fair - I just personally wouldn't anoint him as a great player given how limited his contributions have been in such a dominant team.
I think the midfield rumours make a lot of sense though - given the circumstances a Xhaka / Zinchenko pairing isn't a terrible option.
Good post, I don't know why he is rated among top LBs. He has never started more than 15 league games for City and yes, starts and mins do matter.I don't think those two seasons were anything to write home about from him to be honest - he played ~1150 and ~1475 minutes those years in the league. Robertson and Cancelo have obviously put up multiple seasons that were better as you say, but Chilwell's last two years at Leicester and his first year and a half for Chelsea were both miles better. Shaw's last year at Southampton was better than either of those Zinchenko seasons, to say nothing of his 18/19 and 20/21 years. Also would strongly disagree that Digne and Tierney haven't had significantly better seasons than Zinchenko - from 18/19 to 20/21 Digne was phenomenal for Everton and in 20/21 Tierney was far better than Zinchenko ever has been.
I just view him as a pure passenger in that City team - only useful because he happens to be left footed and better on the ball than Nathan Ake. For me he's a far better midfielder than a LB - always feel like he is easily exposed both positionally and in 1v1s when he's at left back (e.g. in the CL final for the Havertz goal).
That said, it's very much my own opinion - but I don't think it's a coincidence that City are trying to replace him with Cucurella hence my preference. If they were swapped last year I'd have a hard time believing that Brighton would have been better off personally.
You have ignored big difference, Azpi didn't just hold his squad position, he always held his starting 11 position. He had wide range of managers, from rookie to veterans, from defensive managers to proactive front foot managers and every single one of them started him all the time. Managers who played wing system made room for him as right center back and managers who wanted to play Ivanovic as RB, played him as LB. Common point is, every manager wanted him on the pitch.From what I see of City fans, I think they think of him very similarly to how Chelsea fans view Azpilicueta. A cheap signing who's managed to hold his own in a squad full of expensive signings, great attitude and character, similar diminutive style, popular in the dressing room and a cult hero with fans, & can play a couple of different positions to good effect. Not the most spectacular of players but nearly always dependable and the type that every good squad needs.
The main difference between the 2 is that Azpilicueta is the better defender hence can play inside as 1 of the centre backs, and Zinchenko is better on the ball because he's really a midfielder playing left back, & Zinchenko is 7 years younger.
Azpilicueta for Chelsea holds much greater value than what Zinchenko was for City.From what I see of City fans, I think they think of him very similarly to how Chelsea fans view Azpilicueta. A cheap signing who's managed to hold his own in a squad full of expensive signings, great attitude and character, similar diminutive style, popular in the dressing room and a cult hero with fans, & can play a couple of different positions to good effect. Not the most spectacular of players but nearly always dependable and the type that every good squad needs.
The main difference between the 2 is that Azpilicueta is the better defender hence can play inside as 1 of the centre backs, and Zinchenko is better on the ball because he's really a midfielder playing left back, & Zinchenko is 7 years younger.