That’s when we’d know that we were actually out of the race
Frenkie de Jong | The last muppeting lap
- Thread starter davidmichael
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Definitely, let's apply the same logic - why would you negotiate a fee (at this stage) if you didnt have have a clear inclination the player would want to join. Unless you are United of course.
I do back the club, why? Because I'm sick of the over the top criticism that the club receives on here, which mainly stems from things made up in posters heads and conspiracy theories. (Woodies best mate/Glazer Stooges/Coaches do nothing all day/scouts are crap/Murtough is unqualified/Fletcher knows feck/the club can't negotiate more than one player at a time/PR spin United etc etc)
A lot of it is over the top and unwarranted. Written by posters who know nothing about what it is like to run a football club, nor the day to day runnings of the club from both a business perspective and a footballing perspective.
ETH, Murtough, Arnold will get tons of shit IF the FDJ deal does not go through.
But why? They cannot force the issue. A lot of football fans live in this football manager, quick results world where they want things now now now. They also want shiny toy after shiny toy after shiny toy. It simply does not work like that.
For a start the player actually has to want to come to the club, secondly personal terms have to be agreed and this is all after the selling club agrees the sale.
So lets' look at the facts here, before the cringey term 'Embarassing' gets thrown about.
- We have a deal agreed with Barcelona for €85M
- Barca seemingly want to sell
- United want to buy
- FDJ is owed €17M
- FDJ seemingly wants to know where/when he is getting his €17M
- Barca want to lower his wages to register the other signings.
United are a multi billion pound business they know what they are doing, they wouldn't be in constant communication with Barca, flying to Spain if they didn't get any inclination from FDJ/his camp that he does not want to come. Why do I believe that? Once Timber had communicated he wasn't feeling it we moved on to Martinez and that deal got completed rather quickly. It wasn't confirmed by the club for a while as he had to get his visa sorted and a medical. You can thank Brexit for that.
So yes, I will back the club because not a lot of people seem to live in reality and would rather take massive dumps on the club they seemingly love on every little thing that they do. Just because it wasn't completed/carried out the way they AS A FAN would have done it. Armchair managers and we have A LOT of them. So I'll live in reality and when there's a chance to criticise the club in a rational way, I'll do that. Giving large contracts to fringe players is one thing I criticise the club for. But it's not something I'm going to overly berate the club for either.
So, if you were FdJ, with no connection to our club apart from the coach, you'd choose United? Right now, you'd choose United over Chelsea?
They'd be so stupid to pay another club's debt off. Especially of that amount.
But no doubt the media would completely ignore that and churn out their 'United beaten to a player' content.
Unfortunately, we're partly paying the price for a poor season last year. When you're not in the Champions League, it is harder to attract players, especially the elite/top players in those key positions. Aside from this, putting all of our hopes on one player - who has a very, very complex arrangement with his current club - was always going to lead to the possibility of the player not coming to us at all, even before any other rivals step in. The deal is not entirely 'over', but it is now much harder to pull off if Chelsea are involved.
I'm willing to believe that the club have a list of alternatives that they are exploring and haven't simply sat on their hands since putting in this initial bid. I have to say that it's been a poor window from us again and we simply don't seem to be learning our lesson, season after season. We start our first game in a few days. Going into the next season with Fred + McTominay is not an option as far as I'm concerned. The signings we have currently made so far are not going to elevate us by the amount that we hope. Whilst we look at last year's position and think "oh, we finished 6th", the reality is that we also finished 35 points off the top spot, and 13 points off fourth. Those are pretty big totals to comprehend. Points wise, we were closer to relegation than we were to winning the league, and the performances would agree with that.
We all want some resolution after this, but there's no denying that we have spent so much time in this window going after this player. The thought of him not coming to United is one thing, but the idea that he can go to a rival is another. Not the best way to start the season, if this turns out to be the case.
I'm willing to believe that the club have a list of alternatives that they are exploring and haven't simply sat on their hands since putting in this initial bid. I have to say that it's been a poor window from us again and we simply don't seem to be learning our lesson, season after season. We start our first game in a few days. Going into the next season with Fred + McTominay is not an option as far as I'm concerned. The signings we have currently made so far are not going to elevate us by the amount that we hope. Whilst we look at last year's position and think "oh, we finished 6th", the reality is that we also finished 35 points off the top spot, and 13 points off fourth. Those are pretty big totals to comprehend. Points wise, we were closer to relegation than we were to winning the league, and the performances would agree with that.
We all want some resolution after this, but there's no denying that we have spent so much time in this window going after this player. The thought of him not coming to United is one thing, but the idea that he can go to a rival is another. Not the best way to start the season, if this turns out to be the case.
Why do people believe all garbage posted by "twitter journalists"?
Could be because Frenkie is more open to leaving to go there so will forfeit more of his wages owed to make it happenThey'll now take a lower fee from Chelsea? Makes sense
Very clearly a better option for him. We have no chance now Chelsea are in sadly.
to the Neves thread
Chelsea taking him might be a lesson we badly need, but I’m unsure we’d learn anything. I thought the eggs in one basket, lack of self-respect strategy might change under the new manager.
He was absolutely on point on every angle during Boehly buying the team. He has known every target we have gone after during the transfer window. Someone at Chelsea is feeding him information but it is only as good as what Chelsea knows. It was that Matt Law had all the inside sources at Chelsea, and he still seems to know what is going on. Ben does seem to be an addition since Boehly became a thing.
You would think, that FDJ must have given positive signals throughout, that he was willing to join United, and surely after the fee and deal structure has been agreed between the clubs, United would be openly able to discuss directly with the player and his agents.
The bizarre thing with this saga is why we have clung onto a belief that he'd sign, if he and his agents were openly negative about the switch.
I think it’ll move pretty quickly now. It was reported chelsea were just waiting on the sidelines until they felt the situation was resolved at which point they’d come in to agree a fee. Sadly I think that’s the point we’re at now.
Who reported FdJ think United are a mess?
Also, didn't you just suggest United are broke and are using the "saga" to appease the fans..?
Far more successful than utd who haven't won a trophy since 2016.
There is no evidence that Tuchel will be gone. They have had a change in ownership and I doubt they would want to rock the boat that hard.
And spare me the honor and principle bs. Players have a limited career and they are entitled to choose the best option for themselves.
Our negotiators got a deal a while ago while Chelsea doesn't have one at the moment. The issue has been stated many times, De Jong and his agent want their money from Barcelona.
I'm expecting that any day now in all honesty. 'The deal has taken too long, we're moving on to other targets' will probably be the line released to the press.
Meanwhile Chelsea get this deal sorted out in the space of a week.
The vibe was a lot better when it was a one-horse race. It usually doesn't end well for us going head-to-head with Chelsea in the market, Hazard, Essien, Mikel, Robben, Pedro, etc.
Personally I don't, but Ornstein is as reliable as they get.
He wants Champions League football and Chelsea are in the Champions League. Last season, they were also closer to the title than we were. It may come down to just that.
Don't think Chelsea is a good choice either tbf.
'kin hell
I wonder what exactly is our so called hierarchy doing? Absolute lack of reliable information from our end, whereas there are now reports from Tier 1 sources that Chelsea are more or less hijacking the deal.
I think it's on him if he's insisted we stick by this transfer and it doesn't come through. We don't know that's the case, but I'd be amazed if he wasn't the one pushing for this. Whatever happens and whoever is to 'blame', I don't think it's worth getting too upset about.
We did get Lukaku though
Smaller in terms of fanbase? sure
They're a million miles ahead of United in every other department, I bet there's few players willing to join United over Chelsea these days.
Yes.
It's a far bigger and more so prestigious club. The coach understands how I play which is a relief after years of being misused at Barca. It's also a club that has been doggedly chasing after me the past couple of months and I've given my word to the coach that I'd be willing to move hence them being so patient.
At Chelsea I face the prospect of competing with Kante/Jorginho/Kovacic/Mount for 2 CM spots. And face the prospect of my coach being sacked within a couple of months.
What I'm not going to do is (a) cry about one season of Europa League football and (b) cry about London vs Manchester.
Seemingly about to spend £50m on a backup LB and 80m+ on another midfielder they don't need. They'll probably also be on the look out for a striker/forward before the end of the window.
Their summer net spend will look massive without any major sales.
It's irritating. I'm not going to speak for everyone in the UK but given the choice between living in London Vs Cheshire / Manchester I'd choose Manchester all day. Even a millionaire can get stuck on the M25. Manchester is one of the best nights out you can get in your 20's too (which apparently has motivated Grealish at least har har)
But I sort of get it. Better weather in London and they sort of cater to their rich residency (while fecking the poor).
The meltdown in here is something quite amazing to behold.
How about, instead of losing it completely, we just wait to see whats going on? If United pull out we know that he prefers Chelsea. If they don't, then they obviously know something we dont.
I imagine that United will try to get something sorted quickly if they feel they're facing stiff competition from Chelsea. We should hear something today either way on whats going on, until then, not really much has changed in the grand scheme of things. We're all still none the wiser to whats going on
How about, instead of losing it completely, we just wait to see whats going on? If United pull out we know that he prefers Chelsea. If they don't, then they obviously know something we dont.
I imagine that United will try to get something sorted quickly if they feel they're facing stiff competition from Chelsea. We should hear something today either way on whats going on, until then, not really much has changed in the grand scheme of things. We're all still none the wiser to whats going on
I will dip in to say one thing. The way people say “Surely FDJ would never string ETH along like this!” And “They will have been in constant communication throughout this entire thing” with such confidence really cracks me up.
You would swear ETH is his father or something
You would swear ETH is his father or something
Mikel and Pedro worked out well for us, though
So interesting development but should we be surprised?
No one was ever going to get a total free hit at De Jong and Chelsea have been like flies around shit with literally every single player available this summer, the majority of which have turned them down I might add.
I’d say the most significant thing here is the timing they have thrown their hat in. It suggests to me that there’s potentially been some movement with Barca and the player in terms of the financial issue/willingness to move. The good thing about that is the whole thing will be resolved fairly quickly and at that point it will be up to the player where he wants to go.
The CL gives Chelsea the edge obviously but I don’t think It’s certain by any stretch. United have been quite committed to this from very early on and also have a good relationship with Ali Dursan (agent) and the player (Ten Hag).
If Dursan and De Jong have played the club and Ten Hag then feck them. Remember this is about getting the right players who also have the right character. We also want players who want to be here and be part of what we are looking to do.
In terms of criticism on the club if we do not get De Jong then let’s see what happens next. At this stage it would look poor but without knowing what’s been said between all parties it’s difficult to fully attribute blame. You can’t knock the club for aiming high for a top target, especially if they have been misled by the player and those around him. What you can do though is be critical of the contingency plan, or lack of one, but we won’t know what that is until this is resolved. Fortunately there’s plenty of window left so let’s just see what happens.
No one was ever going to get a total free hit at De Jong and Chelsea have been like flies around shit with literally every single player available this summer, the majority of which have turned them down I might add.
I’d say the most significant thing here is the timing they have thrown their hat in. It suggests to me that there’s potentially been some movement with Barca and the player in terms of the financial issue/willingness to move. The good thing about that is the whole thing will be resolved fairly quickly and at that point it will be up to the player where he wants to go.
The CL gives Chelsea the edge obviously but I don’t think It’s certain by any stretch. United have been quite committed to this from very early on and also have a good relationship with Ali Dursan (agent) and the player (Ten Hag).
If Dursan and De Jong have played the club and Ten Hag then feck them. Remember this is about getting the right players who also have the right character. We also want players who want to be here and be part of what we are looking to do.
In terms of criticism on the club if we do not get De Jong then let’s see what happens next. At this stage it would look poor but without knowing what’s been said between all parties it’s difficult to fully attribute blame. You can’t knock the club for aiming high for a top target, especially if they have been misled by the player and those around him. What you can do though is be critical of the contingency plan, or lack of one, but we won’t know what that is until this is resolved. Fortunately there’s plenty of window left so let’s just see what happens.
No, smaller in every sense of the word and every aspect.
Their fecking coach would rather be managing us.
They're not a historic club at all.
Also find it hard to believe that Chelsea (after the summer they've had) wouldn't have spoken to FDJs representatives first.
You do know players and representatives of players have the ability to lie ?
Chelsea clearly committing a lot of funds to this window. Arsenal the same. Spurs have too since January. City are spending, as are Liverpool. None are having to off-set this against major funds raised through sales.
For whatever reason, I don't think we can compete financially with the best this window.
I trust ETH to sell FDJ this gig.
Chelsea under new owners isn´t a sure bet by any stretch of the imagination.
This is just to pressure us to go all in.
If Reddy says it´s a possibility I will go with her.
Chelsea under new owners isn´t a sure bet by any stretch of the imagination.
This is just to pressure us to go all in.
If Reddy says it´s a possibility I will go with her.
I always liked Mikel but agree on Pedro.
Pressure from the British side? Not sure about that, this is different than the countless Sport tweets
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