The John Murtough Era

[TheReligion]

The only reason you don't expect top four is because we haven't recruited well, while Arsenal and Spurs have.

If we finish outside the top four again it'll be a disaster for the club. Doesn't matter how much slack ETH deserves. He cant do his job well if the people above him are incompetent. And like we've seen this summer, top players have no interest in joining shitshow clubs who revel in failure.

No I don’t expect top four as we are starting a rebuild. Klopp joined Liverpool in October and finished 8th. The season after that he finished 4th.

Essentially it took him three quarters of his first season and two transfer windows before he started to get progress and CL football.

Ten Hag has had what, a few months if that? And we are half way through his first transfer window? And the club has just restructured.

I think the forum needs to start being realistic about this season as it seems most are living in a fantasy land.

 

[devilish]

In fairness it does seem like Woodward was still in the way until he left and that Arnold doesn't want to be as involved on the football side. Now why it took 2 and a half months after Woodward left, having already been in the role for over a year, to move the scouts on is a fair question but I just don't believe the club will even start assessing the performance of the new structure until after next summer and we can more fairly assess the results then.

If things are still inefficient and too much responsibility is still being put on Ten Hag, who never had this much input at Ajax, then he can definitely be more fairly judged on here but I doubt even at that stage that Arnold would be looking at changing things.

Murtough is not a new recruit. He's been in the club since Moyes came and had been given more responsibilities throughout the entire Woodward's reign. Surely we can agree that the guy had a finger in a number of decisions made in the club throughout that time and once DOF he knew the club inside out. Thus if it had structural weaknesses then we could tackle them quickly

His first decisions was to appoint Rangnick. The latter was hired despite his game was built around our squad weakness, that he was more of a sporting director then a manager at this point of his career and he had no experience at a big club whatsoever. Then UUnited went back from their word and rescinded Rangnick's offer for consultants mere months after we offered it to him. Which meant that we had no one at the club whose experienced in dealing in the transfer market. Meanwhile Bout and Lawlor left in late April, we waited till late May to hire a deputy DOF, our head of negotiations Judge left when the transfer market open and we rushed to hire Tom Keane in mid June to help us with transfers. These are key positions that needs to be filled, especially considering the toxicity at first team level which needed to be tackled and yet we waited till the very end to do so. Its as if we didn't know that the Summer transfer window was round the corner.

 

[RORY65]

This time next season, people will be saying he deserves more time because he finally got his scouts in.

Fact is Murtough had more than enough time to rehaul the scouting system when everybody knows they’re shit for years but he only decided to do it just when the transfer window was beginning and just hid behind the excuse of getting in the players that ETH wanted for his system.

As of today, he hasn’t done anything of note apart from briefing the press to praise how we’ve changed despite no actual evidence of it. We’re still heading into the start of the season with probably the weakest starting midfielders in the league and relying on a 37 year old striker who wants out.

I know I at least will be more critical if it's the same next summer, I'm sure there will be posters who are just steadfastly positive but at least for me that would be a fairer timeframe to judge him on. It's not as if he's particularly impressed me thus far, the Rangnick appointment was a disaster, but at the same it's clear that Woodward was still influencing football decisions until he left (the Ronaldo signing being a commercial one rather than a football one) while now he seems to be more clearly leading the football side of things.

To be honest my main objection was to posters claiming he will get sacked if things don't change in the next few weeks, I'm not sure why people have got it in their heads that Richard Arnold is some revolutionary figure who will rip everything up to get it right based mostly on the fact that he didn't come across as a total arsehole in a video with some fans in a pub. Either the Murtough thing works or it doesn't over the next few years, we might as well give it a bit longer before writing it off because it is what is, we're a Europa League level club at the moment but hopefully that might change in the coming years.

 

[devilish]

Him and Arnold did complete mess with Ralf. But nobody is blaming neither of them.

I don't think its Arnold's mess tbh. Everyone seem to agree that he doesn't take football decisions, Murtough does.

 

[devilish]

I know I at least will be more critical if it's the same next summer, I'm sure there will be posters who are just steadfastly positive but at least for me that would be a fairer timeframe to judge him on. It's not as if he's particularly impressed me thus far, the Rangnick appointment was a disaster, but at the same it's clear that Woodward was still influencing football decisions until he left (the Ronaldo signing being a commercial one rather than a football one) while now he seems to be more clearly leading the football side of things.

To be honest my main objection was to posters claiming he will get sacked if things don't change in the next few weeks, I'm not sure why people have got it in their heads that Richard Arnold is some revolutionary figure who will rip everything up to get it right based mostly on the fact that he didn't come across as a total arsehole in a video with some fans in a pub. Either the Murtough thing works or it doesn't over the next few years, we might as well give it a bit longer before writing it off because it is what is, we're a Europa League level club at the moment but hopefully that might change in the coming years.

Paratici joined Spurs on July 2021, while Murtough was hired on March 2021. Unlike Murtough he had no idea about the culture of the club and he wasn't already repeatedly promoted by the CEO. Yet he was able to bring in Conte (as opposed to Murtough's genius appointment in Rangnick, the latter being promised to be a consultant later on only for the offer to be rescinded months after)and he signed Kulusevski and Bentacur in January which were key for Spurs to make it to CL qualification. Kulusevski was signed on a 10m euros loan deal with an option to be signed for 35m euros. In 18 games he scored 5 goals and he had 8 assists. That's a bargain compared to the fees (said to be 100m euros) surrounding Antony from the farmers league. This summer he had already signed 6 players including bargain signings Bissouma and Spence. Meanwhile United are relying on ETH's list.

That is how a top DOF with real experience in the job (ie Juventus and Sampdoria not women's team and youths) operates.

 

[Newtonius]

No I don’t expect top four as we are starting a rebuild. Klopp joined Liverpool in October and finished 8th. The season after that he finished 4th.

Essentially it took him three quarters of his first season and two transfer windows before he started to get progress and CL football.

Ten Hag has had what, a few months if that? And we are half way through his first transfer window? And the club has just restructured.

I think the forum needs to start being realistic about this season as it seems most are living in a fantasy land.

Oh god not the Klopp comparisons again. He joined in the middle after Rogers was sacked, in his first full season Liverpool bought 7 players and finished top 4 reaching the EL final.

That's what you call starting a rebuild. If ETH had got the players he wanted you would expect the same thing yet our squad has more holes than swiss cheese its worse than it was less year.

Even if you are just looking forward to his football you can't play that over a season with the tools he has you just can't it all starts in midfield.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Paratici joined Spurs in June 2021, a month before Murtough did with us. Unlike Murtough he had no idea about the culture of the club and he wasn't already repeatedly promoted the CEO. Yet he was able to bring in Conte (as opposed to Murtough's genius appointment in Rangnick, the latter being promised to be a consultant later on only for the offer to be rescinded months after)and he signed Kulusevski and Bentacur in January which were key for Spurs to make it to CL qualification. Kulusevski was signed on a 10m euros loan deal with an option to be signed for 35m euros. In 18 games he scored 5 goals and he had 8 assists. That's a bargain compared to the fees (said to be 100m euros) surrounding Antony from the farmers league. This summer he had already signed 6 players including bargain signings Bissouma and Spence. Meanwhile United are relying on ETH's list.

That is how a top DOF with real experience in the job (ie Juventus and Sampdoria not women's team and youths) operates.

I said that earlier. Proven Dof makes difference. Our is a joke. Because he is not a DoF ffs.
Nothing changed around a club and who knows when it will. Same mistakes every season. Jobs for the boys and shit

 

[devilish]

I said that earlier. Proven Dof makes difference. Our is a joke. Because he is not a DoF ffs.
Nothing changed around a club and who knows when it will. Same mistakes every season. Jobs for the boys and shit

What I find fascinating is the narrative that Woodward kept calling all the shots even after Murtough was promoted to DOF. So basically we have to trust a DOF despite the narrative that the guy wasn't trusted by the very person who promoted him.

PS I made a mistake it that post. Paratici was hired in 1st July 2021. Murtough was hired on March 2021. So Murtough had a 3-4 months kick start.

 

[TheReligion]

Oh god not the Klopp comparisons again. He joined in the middle after Rogers was sacked, in his first full season he bought 7 players and finished top 4 reaching the EL final.

That's what you call starting a rebuild. If ETH had got the players he wanted you would expect the same thing yet our squad has more holes than swiss cheese its worse than it was less year.

Even if you are just looking forward to his football you can't play that over a season with the tools he has you just can't it all starts in midfield.

He joined in October as I’ve said and had two full transfer windows prior to his first full season in which he finished 4th.

He had three quarters of a season and two transfer windows more than Ten Hag has thus far.

It’s just fact.

 

[PlayerOne]

If Michael Edwards doesn't join Chelsea then surely we should making a move. Proven in the PL and helped built a winning team on a budget, while Murtough has fumbled this summer for me.

 

[Caesar2290]

We definitely imploded (or whatever dramatic term you wish you to use) after giving Ole the job full-time. We were utterly appalling at the end of that season.

You implode from a winning position. United in 2011/12 imploded and bottled the title for example.

We ran out of steam and that was evident after the Arsenal game. Regardless, that league position had to do with Mourinho being a toxic cnut and trying to collect his sacking paycheck.

That team finished 2nd the season prior and 3rd the season after. So if anything, those are extenuating circumstances more than the norm.

 

[SmallCaine]

You implode from a winning position. United in 2011/12 imploded and bottled the title for example.

We ran out of steam and that was evident after the Arsenal game. Regardless, that league position had to do with Mourinho being a toxic cnut and trying to collect his sacking paycheck.

That team finished 2nd the season prior and 3rd the season after. So if anything, those are extenuating circumstances more than the norm.

The team again imploded last season, maybe its not the managers being toxic as much as them being asked to turn shower of shit into gold every season and it finally ends up eventually breaking them. Likes of martial, rashford, shaw are inconsistent, after 4 managers maybe we should accept the fact that they aren't good enough for a team that wan't to be around of top of the table every season and actually try to improve on them rather than just expecting the new manager to do what the previous ones failed. The fact that people beleive a guy who made his way to the top under Woodward is somehow going to fix this mess is frankly hilarious.

 

[dubplate warrior]

Our players aren't as bad as last season made them out to be, they simply downed tools and hadn't had a proper manager for 4 years. If four or five of our players improve and the signings improve the first team, it may not be as bad as we all fear.

 

[wolvored]

You implode from a winning position. United in 2011/12 imploded and bottled the title for example.

We ran out of steam and that was evident after the Arsenal game. Regardless, that league position had to do with Mourinho being a toxic cnut and trying to collect his sacking paycheck.

That team finished 2nd the season prior and 3rd the season after. So if anything, those are extenuating circumstances more than the norm.

We were absolutely appalling last season and Ole was rightly sacked. He even tried to con everyone when after getting slaughtered by Liverpool came out with the "we are so close" bollocks. In fact the only one who I felt sorry for as VG for getting the ack. They could have at least let him have a few days to bask in the FA cup win, then sacked him.

 

[Caesar2290]

The team again imploded last season, maybe its not the managers being toxic as much as them being asked to turn shower of shit into gold every season and it finally ends up eventually breaking them. Likes of martial, rashford, shaw are inconsistent, after 4 managers maybe we should accept the fact that they aren't good enough for a team that wan't to be around of top of the table every season and actually try to improve on them rather than just expecting the new manager to do what the previous ones failed. The fact that people beleive a guy who made his way to the top under Woodward is somehow going to fix this mess is frankly hilarious.

Not as hilarious as your hot take taken straight from the Sun. This shower of shite as you called them finished in consistent Top4 under a so called PE teacher that should be nowhere near United. Unless you are saying that Ole was performing SAF level mirracles here, I think you need to review your own post there buddy.

Also what has Murtough got to do with the fact that our managers have created a toxic environment of player power? It's on ETH to fix that, and so far he is doing a good job.

We were absolutely appalling last season and Ole was rightly sacked. He even tried to con everyone when after getting slaughtered by Liverpool came out with the "we are so close" bollocks. In fact the only one who I felt sorry for as VG for getting the ack. They could have at least let him have a few days to bask in the FA cup win, then sacked him.

Nobody is saying otherwise. I wanted Ole gone at the end of last season, but Woody being Woody gave him a new contract midway.

Ole's downfall was the fact that he abandoned his tried and tested method of reactive football and tried playing proactive football with no coaching whatsoever. As a result the opposition exploited our gaps to a comic degree which led to a string of poor results and loss of morale from our players.

As for LVG, if you finish outside the Top4 and Leicester wins the title on 81 points, than that should be an automatic sack and no tin pot FA Cup is going to change that.

 

[dubplate warrior]

Not as hilarious as your hot take taken straight from the Sun. This shower of shite as you called them finished in consistent Top4 under a so called Ole Ole Ole I love you that should be nowhere near United. Unless you are saying that Ole was performing SAF level mirracles here, I think you need to review your own post there buddy.

Also what has Murtough got to do with the fact that our managers have created a toxic environment of player power? It's on ETH to fix that, and so far he is doing a good job.


Nobody is saying otherwise. I wanted Ole gone at the end of last season, but Woody being Woody gave him a new contract midway.

Ole's downfall was the fact that he abandoned his tried and tested method of reactive football and tried playing proactive football with no coaching whatsoever. As a result the opposition exploited our gaps to a comic degree which led to a string of poor results and loss of morale from our players.

As for LVG, if you finish outside the Top4 and Leicester wins the title on 81 points, than that should be an automatic sack and no tin pot FA Cup is going to change that.

Bang on, unfortunately for Ole, there's only so long you can drive a Ferrari like a Prius. Never should of been our manager, boggles the mind to this day.

 

[jem]

You implode from a winning position. United in 2011/12 imploded and bottled the title for example.

We ran out of steam and that was evident after the Arsenal game. Regardless, that league position had to do with Mourinho being a toxic cnut and trying to collect his sacking paycheck.

That team finished 2nd the season prior and 3rd the season after. So if anything, those are extenuating circumstances more than the norm.

Choose whatever verb you want, losing as pathetically as we did in those final games was more than just running out of steam.

 

[El Jefe]

The thing is there is actually no excuse for the incompetence. He's been in the post for more than enough time. I know the head scouts were sent packing but its appalling work so far considering he was announced as DoF in March 2021.

All three of our signings have been EtH recommended signings so what is he actually doing. If Pochettino joined for example, only Eriksen would be here.

This was a summer for us to be really active. Whether it was through experienced or development prospects is neither here nor there but our squad is extremely light.

 

[Roboc7]

I said that earlier. Proven Dof makes difference. Our is a joke. Because he is not a DoF ffs.
Nothing changed around a club and who knows when it will. Same mistakes every season. Jobs for the boys and shit

He’s not a DOF, the club didn’t even give him that job title. The reality is there’s no point in us having a proper one because it would be a total waste of time.

Huge reason why Murtough probably has this job is because he knows it’s a shit show, he knows how the Glazers work, he’s happy to go along with it and he doesn’t rock the boat. Bring in anyone of any substance and they’ll demand control, huge changes and then complain in the media and probably jump ship once they are ignored or lied to.

 

[SmallCaine]

Not as hilarious as your hot take taken straight from the Sun. This shower of shite as you called them finished in consistent Top4 under a so called Ole Ole Ole I love you that should be nowhere near United. Unless you are saying that Ole was performing SAF level mirracles here, I think you need to review your own post there buddy.

Also what has Murtough got to do with the fact that our managers have created a toxic environment of player power? It's on ETH to fix that, and so far he is doing a good job.

I did not know finishing top 4 2 out of 4 seasons is now considered consistent.

The shower of shite is inconsistent, mourinho won us a trophy in the 1st season, got us to 2nd position in his next, imploded in his 3rd. Ole started brilliantly post jose, completely ran out of steam after getting the permanent job, then proceeded to improve us bit by bit with new signings only to run out of steam by his 3rd full season as well. But please tell me how these ultimate team of champions has been exceeding expectations at utd.

Murtough has done exactly what woodward did, taking the entire window to get deals done, over paying for players and inability to get rid of unwanted players.

If our board and owners had any sense they would never have hired murtough, if a moron takes a well running business and runs into the ground, you do not hire his chosen guy with no experience to fix the said business.

 

[alexthelion]

The thing is there is actually no excuse for the incompetence. He's been in the post for more than enough time. I know the head scouts were sent packing but its appalling work so far considering he was announced as DoF in March 2021.

All three of our signings have been EtH recommended signings so what is he actually doing. If Pochettino joined for example, only Eriksen would be here.

This was a summer for us to be really active. Whether it was through experienced or development prospects is neither here nor there but our squad is extremely light.

He only took proper control from March after Woodward left.

How many times do posters have to be told this?

 

[Rightnr]

As bad as this guy has (apparently) been so far, we also clearly don't have the budget.

If we did, de Jong would be starting today.

 

[fallengt]

Our scouting system "unearthed" Wanbi Saka. No wonder football director has no ball to go against manager's wish.
It's either X or bust. Every time they try something different, it's a complete disaster.

 

[dubplate warrior]

As bad as this guy has (apparently) been so far, we also clearly don't have the budget.

If we did, de Jong would be starting today.

This just isn't true, we've agreed a fee with Barca ages ago.

 

[El Jefe]

He only took proper control from March after Woodward left.

How many times do posters have to be told this?

I said announced so not sure what you're on about.

Regardless if he had full control after Woodward left, he had more than enough lead time to get prepared for the role. He has no excuse whatsoever as he was an internal hire whose been at the club for years.

 

[Rightnr]

This just isn't true, we've agreed a fee with Barca ages ago.

If we paid the money due to him, he'd be our player. Or we could have bought Martinez and Anthony for a lot less.

When you have a constraint, it impacts other deals. It's plain to see.

Chelsea are determined to rebuild and happy to bid up. We're still trying to plug gaps on a sinking ship

 

[Seij]

What I find fascinating is the narrative that Woodward kept calling all the shots even after Murtough was promoted to DOF. So basically we have to trust a DOF despite the narrative that the guy wasn't trusted by the very person who promoted him.

PS I made a mistake it that post. Paratici was hired in 1st July 2021. Murtough was hired on March 2021. So Murtough had a 3-4 months kick start.

I find it really interesting that Murtough specifically (not Arnold, not Woodward) has had a small group of people coming out of woodwork to defend him to death since his appointment. Everything that goes well (like last summer's Varane/Ronaldo/Sancho was initially praised as having "an actual football man doing deals") is his work. He most definitely took the credit for bringing Rangnick on board ("Murtough has been a big admirer of Rangnick", etc.) as a great move. After Rangnick was sacked from his initially promised role, now Murtough actually had zero power until March because Woodward called all the shots and Rangnick wasn't his move. This summer is apparently not Murtough's fault either because Woodward "just left". They're choosing to Blame ETH over Murtough. People making condescending replies to criticisms of Murtough like "You random poster on internet clearly have no idea how much work goes into these big transfers. Let the people who know what they're doing do their job ".

I just find it very interesting. Ronaldo having a ton of fans who defend him to death I get with how big his fanbase is. I've never seen people this attached to a DOF, and this is someone who is completely new to this role. It almost makes me think that either he's an extremely charismatic man with lot of friends in football or has a PR team going around these forums. Wouldn't surprise me since Woodward also had a PR guy toward the end of his tenure.

 

[Vapor trail]

Our players aren't as bad as last season made them out to be, they simply downed tools and hadn't had a proper manager for 4 years. If four or five of our players improve and the signings improve the first team, it may not be as bad as we all fear.

This isn't a valid reason not improve the quality of the squad because United's rivals in most parts have improved in the attacking areas with maybe the exception of Liverpool.

 

[Red_toad]

Will he be meeting the boys at the pub next week?

 

[Esquire]

I find it really interesting that Murtough specifically (not Arnold, not Woodward) has had a small group of people coming out of woodwork to defend him to death since his appointment. Everything that goes well (like last summer's Varane/Ronaldo/Sancho was initially praised as having "an actual football man doing deals") is his work. He most definitely took the credit for bringing Rangnick on board ("Murtough has been a big admirer of Rangnick", etc.) as a great move. After Rangnick was sacked from his initially promised role, now Murtough actually had zero power until March because Woodward called all the shots and Rangnick wasn't his move. This summer is apparently not Murtough's fault either because Woodward "just left". They're choosing to Blame ETH over Murtough. People making condescending replies to criticisms of Murtough like "You random poster on internet clearly have no idea how much work goes into these big transfers. Let the people who know what they're doing do their job ".

I just find it very interesting. Ronaldo having a ton of fans who defend him to death I get with how big his fanbase is. I've never seen people this attached to a DOF, and this is someone who is completely new to this role. It almost makes me think that either he's an extremely charismatic man with lot of friends in football or has a PR team going around these forums. Wouldn't surprise me since Woodward also had a PR guy toward the end of his tenure.

If the window ended today he would get a B- at best. Lots of deadwood still here and main target not landed, no central/def mid upgrade etc. No rotation striker so we are beholden to a wantaway 37 year old who clearly doesn’t give a hoot about the club. Martinez should be a good one but it’s obviously a ETH ask. So is Tyrell. CE is a good signing for the next 2 years so it’s a plus. But nowhere near enough.

 

[Vapor trail]

I find it really interesting that Murtough specifically (not Arnold, not Woodward) has had a small group of people coming out of woodwork to defend him to death since his appointment. Everything that goes well (like last summer's Varane/Ronaldo/Sancho was initially praised as having "an actual football man doing deals") is his work. He most definitely took the credit for bringing Rangnick on board ("Murtough has been a big admirer of Rangnick", etc.) as a great move. After Rangnick was sacked from his initially promised role, now Murtough actually had zero power until March because Woodward called all the shots and Rangnick wasn't his move. This summer is apparently not Murtough's fault either because Woodward "just left". They're choosing to Blame ETH over Murtough. People making condescending replies to criticisms of Murtough like "You random poster on internet clearly have no idea how much work goes into these big transfers. Let the people who know what they're doing do their job ".

I just find it very interesting. Ronaldo having a ton of fans who defend him to death I get with how big his fanbase is. I've never seen people this attached to a DOF, and this is someone who is completely new to this role. It almost makes me think that either he's an extremely charismatic man with lot of friends in football or has a PR team going around these forums. Wouldn't surprise me since Woodward also had a PR guy toward the end of his tenure.

It's absolutely ridiculous. John hasn't proven anything, how many can be so upbeat about him is questionable.

 

[Melvin Udall]

He joined in October as I’ve said and had two full transfer windows prior to his first full season in which he finished 4th.

He had three quarters of a season and two transfer windows more than Ten Hag has thus far.

It’s just fact.

But Klopp wasn’t set back by screwing up a summer transfer window. He came in without a preseason and immediately had them playing better football, reaching a Europa league final. He then nailed his first summer window by bringing in Mane, Matip, and Wijnaldum to improve his starting 11 in defense, attack, and midfield. That got him top 4.

We do have a long road to get back to top four, but that doesn’t mean we can afford to drag things out this summer. A lot of possible backup options to FDJ have already made moves, and even if we get some good signings in, they will take longer to bed in after missing preseason. Klopp waited until he had top four and some momentum to get picky and hold out for Van Dijk. ETH has said and done the right things so far, but he needs something to hang his hat on this season, even if it’s just an FA Cup. Even Arteta pulled that off. ETH could do a solid job with this squad and still finish 6th and not come close to any trophies. If something like that happens, we might have the same issues luring top targets next summer. We can build things the right way while still working with a sense of urgency. I like some things that are happening at the club right now, but the thing I might dislike the most is the seeming lack of urgency. When success is dependent on things like on establishing a good scouting department, and that gets delayed, success will likely be delayed too.

 

[devilish]

I find it really interesting that Murtough specifically (not Arnold, not Woodward) has had a small group of people coming out of woodwork to defend him to death since his appointment. Everything that goes well (like last summer's Varane/Ronaldo/Sancho was initially praised as having "an actual football man doing deals") is his work. He most definitely took the credit for bringing Rangnick on board ("Murtough has been a big admirer of Rangnick", etc.) as a great move. After Rangnick was sacked from his initially promised role, now Murtough actually had zero power until March because Woodward called all the shots and Rangnick wasn't his move. This summer is apparently not Murtough's fault either because Woodward "just left". They're choosing to Blame ETH over Murtough. People making condescending replies to criticisms of Murtough like "You random poster on internet clearly have no idea how much work goes into these big transfers. Let the people who know what they're doing do their job ".

I just find it very interesting. Ronaldo having a ton of fans who defend him to death I get with how big his fanbase is. I've never seen people this attached to a DOF, and this is someone who is completely new to this role. It almost makes me think that either he's an extremely charismatic man with lot of friends in football or has a PR team going around these forums. Wouldn't surprise me since Woodward also had a PR guy toward the end of his tenure.

Oh I know. The funny thing is that its so easy to condemn Murtough even if you toe in line to their narrative. For example should we trust a man who wasn't even trusted by the very CEO who appointed him? Why are the goal posts shifting from 'we can only judge Murtough once Woodward was out' to 'he has to employ his new chief scouts first'? If the chief scouts are so instrumental to his role then why haven't they been hired yet? After all Lawlor and Bout were fired in April which means that Murtough probably knew they were no good prior to that

The reality is that United hasn't changed at all. We're still slow in signing and we're unable to get rid of unwanted players for a fee. Which means that its easily for others to recoup more money then we do and to gazump us on the transfer market. One only have to compare Murtough to Paratici. Murtough was promoted as DOF on March 2021 while Paratici started working as DOF on July 1 2021. Murtough had a 5 month head start + he knew Manchester United and the EPL well, something that was lacking in Paratici. Yet, Paratici's moves (Conte's appointment, the signing of Kulusevski for a 40m bargain and Bentacur) lead to Spurs ending up top 4 while Murtough's appointments (Rangnick and no signings during the January window) costed us CL qualification. This summer he signed 6 players from 3 different leagues while we're on the 3rd signing and relying on ETH's list

 

[yumtum]

This isn't a valid reason not improve the quality of the squad because United's rivals in most parts have improved in the attacking areas with maybe the exception of Liverpool.

It's even funnier when someone follows "our players aren't as bad" with "they simply downed tools" - if a clubs players down tools (to which they regularly do) then that's a pretty big red flag, and a massive indication that these players shouldn't be here.

I've said this earlier in the summer, if, and it's a big if with these players, Ten Hag can get them to perform to a decent level this season, every single one should be sold as soon as possible.

For instance, if Rashford and Martial manage to score 20 goals each, and suddenly they become a target for other clubs - snap their fecking hand off as its only a matter of time before they decide to down those tools again.

 

[Matt851]

I find it really interesting that Murtough specifically (not Arnold, not Woodward) has had a small group of people coming out of woodwork to defend him to death since his appointment. Everything that goes well (like last summer's Varane/Ronaldo/Sancho was initially praised as having "an actual football man doing deals") is his work. He most definitely took the credit for bringing Rangnick on board ("Murtough has been a big admirer of Rangnick", etc.) as a great move. After Rangnick was sacked from his initially promised role, now Murtough actually had zero power until March because Woodward called all the shots and Rangnick wasn't his move. This summer is apparently not Murtough's fault either because Woodward "just left". They're choosing to Blame ETH over Murtough. People making condescending replies to criticisms of Murtough like "You random poster on internet clearly have no idea how much work goes into these big transfers. Let the people who know what they're doing do their job ".

I just find it very interesting. Ronaldo having a ton of fans who defend him to death I get with how big his fanbase is. I've never seen people this attached to a DOF, and this is someone who is completely new to this role. It almost makes me think that either he's an extremely charismatic man with lot of friends in football or has a PR team going around these forums. Wouldn't surprise me since Woodward also had a PR guy toward the end of his tenure.

This wouldn't surprise me either. It's not just murtough either, there are a lot people keen to hype up Arnold's abilities I find thus bizarre given they also often denigrate Woodward, ignoring the fact Arnold's personal connection to Woodward probably got him the job

 

[Telsim]

Oh I know. The funny thing is that its so easy to condemn Murtough even if you toe in line to their narrative. For example should we trust a man who wasn't even trusted by the very CEO who appointed him? Why are the goal posts shifting from 'we can only judge Murtough once Woodward was out' to 'he has to employ his new chief scouts first'? If the chief scouts are so instrumental to his role then why haven't they been hired yet? After all Lawlor and Bout were fired in April which means that Murtough probably knew they were no good prior to that

The reality is that United hasn't changed at all. We're still slow in signing and we're unable to get rid of unwanted players for a fee. Which means that its easily for others to recoup more money then we do and to gazump us on the transfer market. One only have to compare Murtough to Paratici. Murtough was promoted as DOF on March 2021 while Paratici started working as DOF on July 1 2021. Murtough had a 5 month head start + he knew Manchester United and the EPL well, something that was lacking in Paratici. Yet, Paratici's moves (Conte's appointment, the signing of Kulusevski for a 40m bargain and Bentacur) lead to Spurs ending up top 4 while Murtough's appointments (Rangnick and no signings during the January window) costed us CL qualification. This summer he signed 6 players from 3 different leagues while we're on the 3rd signing and relying on ETH's list

Small club mentality. Why do we need to promote a clearly inexperienced guy and wait for him to learn on the job instead of just going straight for the best in the business? He is woefully out of his depth. Murtough's appointment is a classic PR crisis response - internal reshuffling with minimal actual changes. You make it seem like you've done something without actually doing anything.

 

[oz insomniac]

Good negotiators actually get deals done, yes I think we all understand then CL issue, but watching teams around us get players in , what conclusion should we draw. Yep, the people in positions to improve the club need improving themselves, the Woodward/Glazer legacy remains, promote people you like rather than seek those with a track record of success.

Chasing players that don’t want to come is classic , where are the alternatives that a big club should have earmarked, well as usual it’s crickets and the silence is deafening. If Murtaugh / Fletcher and others are content with what has occurred in this window, then the future is not too inspiring.

 

[Rocksy]

Paratici joined Spurs on July 2021, while Murtough was hired on March 2021. Unlike Murtough he had no idea about the culture of the club and he wasn't already repeatedly promoted by the CEO. Yet he was able to bring in Conte (as opposed to Murtough's genius appointment in Rangnick, the latter being promised to be a consultant later on only for the offer to be rescinded months after)and he signed Kulusevski and Bentacur in January which were key for Spurs to make it to CL qualification. Kulusevski was signed on a 10m euros loan deal with an option to be signed for 35m euros. In 18 games he scored 5 goals and he had 8 assists. That's a bargain compared to the fees (said to be 100m euros) surrounding Antony from the farmers league. This summer he had already signed 6 players including bargain signings Bissouma and Spence. Meanwhile United are relying on ETH's list.

That is how a top DOF with real experience in the job (ie Juventus and Sampdoria not women's team and youths) operates.

I don’t know how good Paratici is, because when you hire a coach like Conte/Klopp, they will make most of your signings look good. But, he’s obviously a lot better than Murtough, who is 50 and has done pretty much f’all at the sharp end of football (he has never been in charge of a mid-table club, or even a head of recruitment at that level). I don’t think United necessarily need a DOF from one of the biggest clubs, because there’s probably more value in getting someone on the up, but Murtough has never been on the up in his life, has he? Unless you count 10 years as Ed Woodward’s “fixer” as something to boast about.

Oh I know. The funny thing is that its so easy to condemn Murtough even if you toe in line to their narrative. For example should we trust a man who wasn't even trusted by the very CEO who appointed him? Why are the goal posts shifting from 'we can only judge Murtough once Woodward was out' to 'he has to employ his new chief scouts first'? If the chief scouts are so instrumental to his role then why haven't they been hired yet? After all Lawlor and Bout were fired in April which means that Murtough probably knew they were no good prior to that

Also, surely if you take 6 months to hire the next manager and hire a long term interim in the meantime then there is no excuse for starting the next season without the structure in place. To bestripping out the recruitment team AFTER hiring the new manager and pretty much right at the time he begins working is staggering.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Some even praised Murtough has good track records in women and youth football. I have no idea about women football because I didn't follow it at all.

For youth, so far none broken into the first team. The only player look good is Garnacho and maybe Iqbal. We wasted tonne of money on Amad and Pellistri and co.

 

[tenpoless]

He's not Woodward. He won't sign players if the manager doesn't want them.