It's not a lottery. I mean even if we ignore the homework keepers and players do (or should do) on eachother, he decided to throw on two players barely warm and without any rhythm from the tournament to take kicks aswell as giving the crucial 5th one to a youngster who was quite evidently overwhelmed by the occasion.No. You just like him are using hindsight to make these claims. The reason they beat Argentina for example was because Argentina as per usual plain froze. They also never threatened Spain at all. Spain were pretty comfortable against them, which was no surprise because they weren't at that level yet. They were at the begining of their cycle in 2010. That is why 4 years later they matured into a winning team.
Southgate is not a great manager. But he isnt remotely shit either abd he has done very well. People should stop pretending he has a generation as good as England's past 2 golden generations(1986-90) (2002-2010) and is "holding them back". (I.e the hoolaboo about TAA not playing often) His tactics have actually masked a lot of weaknesses that exist in the group. Its really funny how he gets so much abuse yet he lost a major tourney final on the lottery of a shoot out. Against an Italy side that actually dumped out better sides than England in the tournament and played the best football in the entire tournament all tournement long. Plus have a far higher big tournament final pedigree. Yet the way most talk on here. One would think he faced a truly rubbish opponent in the final that was a perrenial international tournament pretender.
Not entirely sure that's true. England have always gone through iterations of possessing some serious talents, this generation happens to be another. So if anything they've been perennial underachievers, and hiringYes, they all deserved a shot, my point is I have no problem with giving young underqualified coaches a chance, the problem was keeping them well past their sell by date. Neither were serious candidates at the time, Southgate got the job because of the Big Sam scandal. And like ole he got a tune out of the players. But unlike us, England haven't come close to winning anything for decades, that's why getting to the final was considered decent for some fans.
England are hardly second tier. Yes they've won feck all for almost 60 years, but considering the talent pool of this current generation, almost all of which play in the top league in the world, couple that to the fact they've had favourable draws and other favouring circumstances (e.g. playing at Wembley during the last Euros), then their achievements are hardly a testament to Gareth feckin Southgate.It's a lazy comparison. Southgate got a 2nd tier international team to the late stages of the 2 major tournaments. Ole lost a Europa League final as manager of one of the biggest, most successful clubs in world football.
The "team is not all that" line is often used as an excuse for underperforming managers.Not entirely sure that's true. England have always gone through iterations of possessing some serious talents, this generation happens to be another. So if anything they've been perennial underachievers, and hiring
England are hardly second tier. Yes they've won feck all for almost 60 years, but considering the talent pool of this current generation, almost all of which play in the top league in the world, couple that to the fact they've had favourable draws and other favouring circumstances (e.g. playing at Wembley during the last Euros), then their achievements are hardly a testament to Gareth feckin Southgate.
Like Ole, Southgate seems to rely overly on moments of individual brilliance and hoping to hit teams on the break. He's hardly making use of the crop of talent available to him.
The decision to leave Sancho out should be getting more heat. Nevermind mainstream media, even United fans are not really saying anything, even those who talk a good line about defending our players.Just read his quotes on Musiala. And the treatment of Sancho.. Jesus, this guy is such a hateable idiot.
Must have missed these, what did he say?Just read his quotes on Musiala. And the treatment of Sancho.. Jesus, this guy is such a hateable idiot.
It's a nation with the same number of major tournament wins as the likes of Greece and Denmark. Getting to semis and finals is the ceiling. No manager is coming in and turning a reasonably talented squad with a fair amount of dross into free-flowing artistes and tournament favourites. Historically that just isn't England's level, but some people just can't accept it, which is why we're always having the same conversations, regardless of what year it is.Not entirely sure that's true. England have always gone through iterations of possessing some serious talents, this generation happens to be another. So if anything they've been perennial underachievers, and hiring
England are hardly second tier. Yes they've won feck all for almost 60 years, but considering the talent pool of this current generation, almost all of which play in the top league in the world, couple that to the fact they've had favourable draws and other favouring circumstances (e.g. playing at Wembley during the last Euros), then their achievements are hardly a testament to Gareth feckin Southgate.
Like Ole, Southgate seems to rely overly on moments of individual brilliance and hoping to hit teams on the break. He's hardly making use of the crop of talent available to him.
I think maybe the point that poster was trying to make is England lack that playmaker and quick passer who can keep things ticking over but make things happen tooCompletely disagree with this. Rice, Bellingham, and Foden is more than enough to outplay teams in midfield with Mount, Phillips, Ward Prowse, and Henderson as backups. The issue is the shape of the team and personnel up front and at the back. Saka has to start, and they need another runner on the opposite wing if playing Kane. Whether that is Rashford, Bowen, or bashing it into Sterling’s head to stop dropping deep is up the the staff.
The team has plenty of options and ways they could play, with good footballers in most every position barring CB. But Southgate sets up like he’s coaching Wolves to grind out a 1-0 victory and doesn’t seem to have a clue tactically as to how he can form a cohesive attacking side.
No, this is basically wumming, but you have achieved that well. Hope no-one even bothers biting.It's a nation with the same number of major tournament wins as the likes of Greece and Denmark. Getting to semis and finals is the ceiling. No manager is coming in and turning a reasonably talented squad with a fair amount of dross into free-flowing artistes and tournament favourites. Historically that just isn't England's level, but some people just can't accept it, which is why we're always having the same conversations, regardless of what year it is.
If Gazza/Shearer/ Rooney/Gerrard hit form, we've got a chance...
If Beckham/ Rooney recover from their injuries we've got a chance...
If we get rid of Eriksen/ Capello/ Hodgson/ Southgate we've got a chance.
This is England.
I don’t think this is true at all. You can win tournaments with less depth and quality than England have - the issue is really a mirror of what United have generally been going through post SAF. Lots of decent players, lots of hype, poor managerial decisions and cowardly choices.It's a nation with the same number of major tournament wins as the likes of Greece and Denmark. Getting to semis and finals is the ceiling. No manager is coming in and turning a reasonably talented squad with a fair amount of dross into free-flowing artistes and tournament favourites. Historically that just isn't England's level, but some people just can't accept it, which is why we're always having the same conversations, regardless of what year it is.
If Gazza/Shearer/ Rooney/Gerrard hit form, we've got a chance...
If Beckham/ Rooney recover from their injuries we've got a chance...
If we get rid of Eriksen/ Capello/ Hodgson/ Southgate we've got a chance.
This is England.
You are in luck because FA won't do anythingAs a Welshman, I hope the FA stick with Northfence forever..
Mmmm I dunno. I tend to agree with @Gio on this. That germany side was already pretty great, better than England all in all as it had fewer weaknesses and was more cohesiveNo. You just like him are using hindsight to make these claims. The reason they beat Argentina for example was because Argentina as per usual plain froze. They also never threatened Spain at all. Spain were pretty comfortable against them, which was no surprise because they weren't at that level yet. They were at the begining of their cycle in 2010. That is why 4 years later they matured into a winning team.
Thank youSouthgate is not a great manager. But he isnt remotely shit either abd he has done very well.
Agree with everything except for the bolded. I think the talent pool now is better than the 2002-2010 period. Much greater attacking depth now. The death of those England sides was the lack of anything at all beyond Owen and then Rooney. The moment one of them went down it became pathetically easy to stop England's attack. England did not have a high enough technical level to really dominate games and put Gerrard and Lampard into goalscoring positions often enough(Capello often bemoaned Scholes retirement and blames himself for ignoring Carrick)People should stop pretending he has a generation as good as England's past 2 golden generations(1986-90) (2002-2010) and is "holding them back". (I.e the hoolaboo about TAA not playing often) His tactics have actually masked a lot of weaknesses that exist in the group. Its really funny how he gets so much abuse yet he lost a major tourney final on the lottery of a shoot out. Against an Italy side that actually dumped out better sides than England in the tournament and played the best football in the entire tournament all tournement long. Plus have a far higher big tournament final pedigree. Yet the way most talk on here. One would think he faced a truly rubbish opponent in the final that was a perrenial international tournament pretender.
Maybe, but it won't be because of Southgate. Bloke won't be charge come the end of the year.Convinced the likes of Tomori & Toney will feel rejected by England due to Southgate and play for someone else
How boring.It's a nation with the same number of major tournament wins as the likes of Greece and Denmark. Getting to semis and finals is the ceiling. No manager is coming in and turning a reasonably talented squad with a fair amount of dross into free-flowing artistes and tournament favourites. Historically that just isn't England's level, but some people just can't accept it, which is why we're always having the same conversations, regardless of what year it is.
If Gazza/Shearer/ Rooney/Gerrard hit form, we've got a chance...
If Beckham/ Rooney recover from their injuries we've got a chance...
If we get rid of Eriksen/ Capello/ Hodgson/ Southgate we've got a chance.
This is England.
And yet, how true.How boring.
Certain elements are, but it's mostly a dull, predictable attempt at wumming. Hence, boring.And yet, how true.
I don't think you can write that off as wumming, unfortunately.Certain elements are, but it's mostly a dull, predictable attempt at wumming. Hence, boring.
The comparison to Greece and Denmark is all the evidence that's needed tbh, with no disrespect to those nations.I don't think you can write that off as wumming, unfortunately.
That's really not a comparison, just a statement of fact (number of titles). He's not writing that England as a football nation is comparable to DEN or GRE.The comparison to Greece and Denmark is all the evidence that's needed tbh, with no disrespect to those nations.
The comparison is laughable - it works in one way and one way only, which is that some people have similar feelings about OGS and Southgate, and hence like to think they're similar.Not entirely sure that's true. England have always gone through iterations of possessing some serious talents, this generation happens to be another. So if anything they've been perennial underachievers, and hiring
England are hardly second tier. Yes they've won feck all for almost 60 years, but considering the talent pool of this current generation, almost all of which play in the top league in the world, couple that to the fact they've had favourable draws and other favouring circumstances (e.g. playing at Wembley during the last Euros), then their achievements are hardly a testament to Gareth feckin Southgate.
Like Ole, Southgate seems to rely overly on moments of individual brilliance and hoping to hit teams on the break. He's hardly making use of the crop of talent available to him.
I root for England in all comps etc....and he kills me. I wish he was more likeable after his success, but his style of play and comments make him cringeworthy.Just read his quotes on Musiala. And the treatment of Sancho.. Jesus, this guy is such a hateable idiot.
Come on now, you're being willfully obtuse. It's a clear wum. Why not use Netherlands or Portugal as points of comparison, in that case?That's really not a comparison, just a statement of fact (number of titles). He's not writing that England as a football nation is comparable to DEN or GRE.
What did he say about Musiala?Just read his quotes on Musiala. And the treatment of Sancho.. Jesus, this guy is such a hateable idiot.
Nothing too bad actually, just pretty small time and passive aggressive. He was pissed off that German internationals allegedly talked a young player into playing for Germany (calling it a "disgrace") and was then asked what he expects from Musiala in the future, answering "I don't care about Musiala's future"What did he say about Musiala?
It's not a clear wum just because you don't like hearing it! The point is basically valid, and the statement is factually correct.Come on now, you're being willfully obtuse. It's a clear wum. Why not use Netherlands or Portugal as points of comparison, in that case?
I'm not quite sure what's wrong with that?Nothing too bad actually, just pretty small time and passive aggressive. He was pissed off that German internationals allegedly talked a young player into playing for Germany (calling it a "disgrace") and was then asked what he expects from Musiala in the future, answering "I don't care about Musiala's future"
I don't necessarily make that claim, I think this idea of golden generation is always a bit warped. What I do think though is that the current generation is much more technically proficient than previous generations, and that it's quite stacked with attacking talent, and yet it mostly plays boring, conservative football. That's on him, and while it can work ok in tournament competitions, it's a shame considering what could be done with this batch of players.I mostly agree with those who argue that Southgate hasn't been insanely underwhelming in terms of getting the most out of the players available to him. Some (several) of those players are vastly overrated by those who make the argument that he's failed to take advantage of a golden-ish generation of English footballers.
Yeah, same.I mean, I actually do find him unlikeable in general
I think it's clear as day that a more - call it what you will - progressive manager could get more out of certain players and improve the overall style of play (looking less dire and workmanlike).That's on him, and while it can work ok in tournament competitions, it's a shame considering what could be done with this batch of players.
If that really is our "ceiling" then all the more reason to make the games more fun. It's utter nonsense to suggest what Southgate is serving up is the only way to be competitive, relatively or otherwise.It's a nation with the same number of major tournament wins as the likes of Greece and Denmark. Getting to semis and finals is the ceiling. No manager is coming in and turning a reasonably talented squad with a fair amount of dross into free-flowing artistes and tournament favourites. Historically that just isn't England's level, but some people just can't accept it, which is why we're always having the same conversations, regardless of what year it is.
If Gazza/Shearer/ Rooney/Gerrard hit form, we've got a chance...
If Beckham/ Rooney recover from their injuries we've got a chance...
If we get rid of Eriksen/ Capello/ Hodgson/ Southgate we've got a chance.
This is England.
I think it's generally a really bitchy answer since he's attacking a 19 year old player. Not really appropriate for the head coach of such a big football nation. I would definitely expect a classier answer from Flick or Löw before him. If you want to criticize someone, criticize the association not the player.I'm not quite sure what's wrong with that?
I mean, I actually do find him unlikeable in general, but it was a stupid question and a genuine answer. Pretty touchy if this is what leads you to believe he's a "hateable idiot".
So it's never coming home?It's a nation with the same number of major tournament wins as the likes of Greece and Denmark. Getting to semis and finals is the ceiling. No manager is coming in and turning a reasonably talented squad with a fair amount of dross into free-flowing artistes and tournament favourites. Historically that just isn't England's level, but some people just can't accept it, which is why we're always having the same conversations, regardless of what year it is.
If Gazza/Shearer/ Rooney/Gerrard hit form, we've got a chance...
If Beckham/ Rooney recover from their injuries we've got a chance...
If we get rid of Eriksen/ Capello/ Hodgson/ Southgate we've got a chance.
This is England.
Yep. I think even with a 3atb formation there's a team more than capable of playing front foot football.I don't necessarily make that claim, I think this idea of golden generation is always a bit warped. What I do think though is that the current generation is much more technically proficient than previous generations, and that it's quite stacked with attacking talent, and yet it mostly plays boring, conservative football. That's on him, and while it can work ok in tournament competitions, it's a shame considering what could be done with this batch of players.