That is correct
International football beefs: who does your nation hate, and why?
- Thread starter Fortitude
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
No. I literally said there's an element of self-deprecating humour to it.
Where I disagree is the notion that the usage or intention by fans hasn't at all evolved since 1996.
Yeah it’s got nothing whatsoever to do with the original song or it’s self deprecating lyrics …pull the other one. It’s a phrase in its own right at this stage synonymously associated with the English media and fans (not all but enough for other nationalities to laugh about) being seemingly overly confident, whether during qualifying or in the early stages of any tournament. Other teams seem happy to take it round by round - the English start asking if it’s coming home before a ball is even kicked. It would be a sin not to take the piss out of them when they inevitably fuk it up.
it will haunt them till they win something. But it’s all a bit of fun…everyone deserves the piss taken out of them at some point.
it will haunt them till they win something. But it’s all a bit of fun…everyone deserves the piss taken out of them at some point.
Yeah, that's well put! Obviously I didn't phrase it very well the first time.
I know my own family back in the Netherlands won't have cared very long - but I have no idea what the national sentiment is. I don't think people will have been devestated though. I mean, going out on penalties is always hard in the moment; but very few people will have expected the Netherlands to go very far in this tournament, so I don't think many people will be super disappointed beyond the outcome of the penalty shoot-out.
jajaj now we all love Rafa, back then Del Potro said that he was going to sacar loss calzones del orto a Nadal, obviously he was joking cause they are friends since they were young and it was a messThank you for the explanation. The truth is that seeing the tone of many Mexicans on twitter it would seem that they were expecting a disputed match.
The Mexicans attacked a lot with the economy (Argentinian waiters in México?) and the Argentinians with the security issue, narcos, etc. And then Canelo understood what he wanted with the t-shirt issue on the floor and the insults continued for a few days.
The banter in social media/forums comes from long before Messi-Cristiano. I'm not saying it's exclusive to Argentina because Peruvians, Bolivians or Colombians also have their share.
I still remember Marca being flooded with Argentinians making fun of every defeat of Nadal, even when he was very young, and us when it was our turn with del Potro obviously
U.S. hates Mexico and vise versa. The rivalry can get a bit nasty but i've always likened it to a little brother versus big brother thing. Now the little brother is better (for the moment). Being an American of Mexican descent i of course root for USA but dont mind if Mexico does well. 3rd gen will do that to you.
Treacherousness personified.
Ghana:They are our neighbours, we lost this world cup ticket to them,and the banter on social media was too much.
Cameroon: We (Nigeria) have lost three African cup of nations finals to Cameroon. The Afcon 2000 co hosted by Ghana/Nigeria,we lost to Cameroon on penalties, one of the penalties crossed the goal line but the referee didn't see( in 2000 CAF had not adopted goal-line technology ).
.Cameroon: We (Nigeria) have lost three African cup of nations finals to Cameroon. The Afcon 2000 co hosted by Ghana/Nigeria,we lost to Cameroon on penalties, one of the penalties crossed the goal line but the referee didn't see( in 2000 CAF had not adopted goal-line technology ).
Of course it has - they are being disingenuous
Is any England fan overconfident? I wasn't confident facing the French, and neither were pretty much everyone I spoke to about. We never win games like that. We have a history of losing them games.
Argentina, Germany, Belgium
He doesn't want to mention WW2, but thats what he is aiming at. Bit of a farfetched thing.
Seems weird that you quoted it as some kind of proof of your point then. That's what really confused me.
Mexican fans are very passionate about football, TBH, I don’t think we have anything to envy other nations in regards to support and atmosphere. Football is the most watched and popular sport in Mexico and it has been like that since always.
Nonetheless, that passion is not reflected in success. Mexico at football level is frankly mediocre and this WC we have even taken a step back. Even worst, our rivals (USA, Costa Rica) look more solid and with a brighter future than us.
This discrepancy between fan following and success in the sport has led to expectations that generally do not obey logic. Mass media in Mexico treat our national team as some kind of superstars that you could think they play in Real Madrid or the best teams in the world… and at the same time, when they lose they are the worst garbage in the existence of the world.
These expectations lead to lots of frustration and anger that are exhibited before the success of nations like Argentina, and if you add to that the typical Latin American frustrations (Spanish Conquest, caste system, classism, which have nothing to do with football) then it’s the perfect vessel to steam off that anger.
This is the bit I don't believe at all. No other team except England looks at the different teams they might face and tries to work out whether they can hope to win the games? No other country's media gives their team any chance of winning it until they're a couple of goals up in the final? No-one, ahead of a tournament, takes any time at all to try to judge what their chances are?
Nah.
Brazil's media didn't talk up the teams chances of beating Korea, and then of beating Croatia? I don't believe that for a second.
So - what is the reason why you see and resent all of the stuff about England, but none of the stuff about other countries?
I have a pet theory that the problem is language. Simply because English is the lingua franca of the world means that everything that is said about the England team is seen by the world. Whereas basically no-one outside the target countries gets to hear Brazil, Argentina, France, Germany talking up their own team.
But of course it could just be people who want to hold a grudge against the country, so they pounce on anything they can choose to perceive as something to beat them around the head with.
Pretty sure Croatia - Serbia and Serbia - Albania would be well ahead of Italy vs France or Germany vs Netherlands.
I’m sure if Russia meet Ukraine or Kosovo meet Serbia anytime in the next ten years it will be explosive (no pun intended)
Finland vs Russia is a feisty one as well
Agree with this, but not your overall view.
calling it a missed opportunity is a nonsense. Croatia in a semi was a ‘missed opportunity’ everyone (should) know that any team that qualifies for any given World Cup is capable of winning a game of football. I think most English people do.
The vast majority sing 3 lions because it’s a catchy tune and it can help encourage us that ‘maybe just maybe this time will be different’. However, to suggest that’s arrogant or even confident belief is incorrect. It’s hope, pure unjustified unadulterated hope, the very essence of football.
personally I like to update the lyrics every tournament… next World Cup it will be 60 years of pain. Nobody who knows that could possibly find it within themselves to be arrogant as an England fan.
Lastly, even if your interpretation of Baddiel’s words is correct (which is debatable), what the writer says about what he meant when he wrote it and what it means to people once it becomes a **** classic are totally different things.
Of course they do.. International football is full of chauvinism and mythology.
This is Mancini as the Euro was getting postponed in 2020:
Croatia and Albania for political reasons.
Also Kosovo, who we do not recognize as a country. I think we cant play them in the qualifiers for the same reasons ie Armenia cannot play Azerbaijan, but, if we eventually meet in a competitive game (Nations League or a big competition), it will be probably the most high-risk international match in the history of football.
Switzerland as they have several players who are ethnic Albanians.
Also Kosovo, who we do not recognize as a country. I think we cant play them in the qualifiers for the same reasons ie Armenia cannot play Azerbaijan, but, if we eventually meet in a competitive game (Nations League or a big competition), it will be probably the most high-risk international match in the history of football.
Switzerland as they have several players who are ethnic Albanians.
I don't get the media complaints about England, they're English centered so of course they overtly focus on their national team, im pretty sure every other country does it as well (usa,Germany,Italy and South Americans) so it does seem a bit daft to hold that against them.
Sorry, but maybe learn the history of Ireland before making yourself look stupid by posting such tripe and bullshit, as it was never fecking about "arrogance" between Ireland and the English, we were never really at their level, well maybe a 4-year period 88-92, it was more due to 800 years of murder and land robbing is where the hatred and love of watching them fail stems from and not fecking arrogance, as of all the teams we ever hosted here in Ireland, and it's been many, none ever got a game forced off after 26 mins due to violence from their scumbag fans and 27 years later only once have they ever been invited back.
As for who we dislike, rather that word than hate in terms of talking footie, it has to be Denmark as they always beat us and that's all given how poor we have faired for the past 2 decades there's no-one else really.
Last edited:
I'm well aware of Irelands history.
Which is why I said they ARENT just hated due to misplaced arrogance.
"England aren't just hated by Argentinians, Irish and Scottish people due to misplaced arrogance though"
That there is far more to it than that and the arrogance was just the cherry on top of the cake.
It's literally all there in the post that you quoted.
Last edited:
Well there has been some shocking lack of awareness over the years, though I think it has gotten better recently. This is off the top of my head but i can remember:
- Mark Lawrenson said not a single Italian player would get into the England side when the two faced each other in 2012; the Italian team had Buffon, Bonucci, De Rossi, Marchiso and Pirlo. If you want a good laugh check out the England players that lined up that day
- I remember Phil Neville commentating on a Uruguay match at a world cup and saying he thought the Uruguayans might go "further in the competition than they ever had before" (they've won it twice Phil and also about a million Copa Americas too)
- All the downplaying of Croatia in 2018 and constant talk about England's final (forgetting a Croatian team that had prime Luka fecking Modric and Ivan Rakitic in their midfield)
Well there has been some shocking lack of awareness over the years, though I think it has gotten better recently. This is off the top of my head but i can remember:
These sort of things have felt common for awhile and at the time they rarely got challenged or highlighted. Perhaps other nation's media do it too but it's always seemed particularly bad in the English media.
- Mark Lawrenson said not a single Italian player would get into the England side when the two faced each other in 2012; the Italian team had Buffon, Bonucci, De Rossi, Marchiso and Pirlo. If you want a good laugh check out the England players that lined up that day
- I remember Phil Neville commentating on a Uruguay match at a world cup and saying he thought the Uruguayans might go "further in the competition than they ever had before" (they've won it twice Phil and also about a million Copa Americas too)
- All the downplaying of Croatia in 2018 and constant talk about England's final (forgetting a Croatian team that had prime Luka fecking Modric and Ivan Rakitic in their midfield)
Don't forget this ;
I get that, those are all extremely chauvinistic irrational and undoubtedly dumb but again I don't think it's necessarily exclusive to the English, the American media for example is genuinely horrendously and while I'm not as well versed in the south American media they to seem to fall in the same general pitfalls, same with the Germans,Italians and the Dutch (who at times act like their a gift from God even though I like them very much) so to specifically highlight that against England is Strange.Well there has been some shocking lack of awareness over the years, though I think it has gotten better recently. This is off the top of my head but i can remember:
These sort of things have felt common for awhile and at the time they rarely got challenged or highlighted. Perhaps other nation's media do it too but it's always seemed particularly bad in the English media.
- Mark Lawrenson said not a single Italian player would get into the England side when the two faced each other in 2012; the Italian team had Buffon, Bonucci, De Rossi, Marchiso and Pirlo. If you want a good laugh check out the England players that lined up that day
- I remember Phil Neville commentating on a Uruguay match at a world cup and saying he thought the Uruguayans might go "further in the competition than they ever had before" (they've won it twice Phil and also about a million Copa Americas too)
- All the downplaying of Croatia in 2018 and constant talk about England's final (forgetting a Croatian team that had prime Luka fecking Modric and Ivan Rakitic in their midfield)
Perhaps it's the result of English being the lingua franca and the English media the most prevalent on the global stage highlighting that attitude, something which is obviously not the case with others.
"England (the footballing side) aren't just hated (I don't mean actually literally hated , more that people are happy to see them fail) by Argentinans, Irish and Scottish people due to misplaced arrogance though.
There is far more to it than that, the arrogance is only the cherry on top of the cake for those nations."
So if you feel that way, why start it off by claiming the above and then change your tune a few sentences later ? As one minute you are claiming its a misplaced arrogance and the next you are saying there's more to it, so which one do you believe of the two sentences you wrote.
Last edited:
Thats one sentence.
Are you drunk or something?
I never claimed it was misplaced arrogance , I responded to a poster that said it was due to misplaced arrogance.
"England aren't just hated by Argentinians, Irish and Scottish people due to misplaced arrogance though"
I was talking about what you wrote not me and are you for real, so now it's someone else that said that you're claiming, funny that given your post was the first to use the term "misplaced arrogance" and no-one else prior to that post I originally quoted you on used that term.
Last edited:
Tommy you have massive comprehension issues.
You are making yourself look silly now.
I know all about Irish history, Argentina history and Scottish history
which is why I said that it wasn't just about misplaced arrogance.England (the footballing side) aren't just hated people are happy to see them fail) by Argentinans, Irish and Scottish people due to misplaced arrogance though.Tommy you have massive comprehension issues.
You are making yourself look silly now.
I know all about Irish history, Argentina history and Scottish history
There is far more to it than that, the arrogance is only the cherry on top of the cake for those nations.
So again I will ask why use that term and don't dare say someone else said it, they didn't name a country, you did, got pulled up on it and now taken to insults. And you did say it in your first sentence and then changed it in your second sentence, as clearly shown. Terranovas post mentioned no names and used the song as a thing, and that's what he meant by arrogance.
Misplaced arrogance, the "it's coming home thing", very fun to watch it fall apart.
So he makes it about a fecking song, You included Ireland in "Misplaced arrogance", not him and thats what pissed me off about your post, As with us and them it was never about arrogance, as we have never been bar a 4-year period at their level. Anyway, you need not answer this as we are just going to go around and around on this.
I told him Ireland didn't hate England due to misplaced arrogance.
I told him that it was due to more than that.
You didn't pull me up on anything, you are either drunk or have an inability to comprehend sentences.
You started off with this bizarrely aggressive post;
When it's in fact you who look stupid for not being able to see that I'm telling the poster that it's not just about misplaced arrogance.
Not as odd as Americans who think English humour just consists of Benny Hill and Monty Python
self deprecation and sarcasm isn't really understood outside of the UK and Ireland in my experience
People know. But it's never really sung after a loss, only when you are hoping for a win, it is also sung/written a lot by cocky English people who are certainly not using it for self-deprecation. The ones using it for self-deprecation are fine of course.
It's a dead discussion to be honest, happens every bloody time there is a world cup or european cup, with the same arguments from both sides.
He never MENTIONED a country you did, and then posted "England (the footballing side) aren't just hated (I don't mean actually literally hated , more that people are happy to see them fail) by Argentinans, Irish and Scottish people due to misplaced arrogance though
Maybe you should have written "England (the footballing side) aren't just hated (I don't mean actually literally hated , more that people are happy to see them fail) due to arrogance whereas the Argentinans, Irish and Scottish people is due to history though"
Last edited:
For Norwegains there isn't really much to say as we're irrelevant football-wise.
We see Sweden & Denmark as Scandinavian rivals, but in reality we've been so far behind that it's mostly like looking at our big brothers competing in events we are incapable qualifying for.
As for England it's love or dislike. Some love England, some dislike parts of the fanbase enough to root against them. But don't think I've seen or heard anyone have a problem with the team itself.
We see Sweden & Denmark as Scandinavian rivals, but in reality we've been so far behind that it's mostly like looking at our big brothers competing in events we are incapable qualifying for.
As for England it's love or dislike. Some love England, some dislike parts of the fanbase enough to root against them. But don't think I've seen or heard anyone have a problem with the team itself.
Hungary hates Romania and I assume it's mutual. Sadly it leads to a lot of fights, matches behind closed doors and just generally a lot of xenophobia from both sides. So it's not a healthy rivalry sadly
Because he quoted a post of mine where I said that the Argentinians, Irish and Scottish hate (in a footballing sense) the English national team!
He then said that it was down to misplaced arrogance which I said wasn't the case.
Just look at the posts.
You are giving my post too much credit, a barely literate Cavan man could understand it.
It may say to you whatever you want because you are either pissed or have poor reading comprehension but what it actually says is;
"England aren't just hated by Argentinians , Irish and Scottish people due to misplaced arrogance"
It would have to say
"England are just hated by Argentinians , Irish and Scottish people due to misplaced arrogance"
You know that "Aren't" means "Are Not" right???
So it means "England are not just hated by Argentinian, Irish and Scottish people due to misplaced placed arrogance though"
"Merica. Feck those cutns...