Neymar is the among the "most flair" players ever. Mbappe also has much in his locker. Both would stand out both from an effectivity as well as an entertainment perspective against 90% of the players in the 90s and 00s. The only ones in that period of time who could keep up with them were probably Zidane, Ronaldinho and R9.
Is Mbappe the best french player ever?
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You did see the player this thread’s about using a step over in practically the last kick of the game, in a typical display of skill, agility, balance and arrogance to nearly win it in the most spectacular fashion imaginable…right?
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I also grew up watching in a similar era and while you raise some good points about flair and dribbling it’s incredibly rose tinted glasses you look through. There were lots of shite games back then too where nobody stood out and the game lacked flair.
And Mbappé is not the issue, if you can’t take any enjoyment or respect from someone scoring a hat trick in a World Cup final, 8 goals in a tournament, first since Ronaldo in 2002 to score that many, and be a genuinely thrilling player then I wonder if this is the sport for you. Mbappé does have flair about him, he always tries to take on his man, he takes risks, he performs on the big stage.
Mbappe is surpassing Messi in goals + assists by some distance at the same age (23) it'll be interesting to see if he can keep that level up for 10 more years.
In totality yes(mainly because of Messi's early injuries).
How do they look stats wise in a season-by-season comparison up to 23?
Games played, goals, assists and the same for international.
The lengths that people will go to downplay is ridiculous. Context actually matters. The reason 3 penalties is a great achievement today because its come against a goal keeper that has proved himself to be the ones of the best penalty stoppers ever.
Needs to create a new celebration. Jumping and shouting Ouiiiiii followed by the fans around stadium.
There's zero fecks given outside of any team winning the CL, my man. I couldn't care less when Madrid, Chelsea, or anybody else wins the CL, so if we ever do, I don't care about your feelings on it. The kid is from Paris, and he's trying to put it on the map by winning a CL. I don't care whether you respect it or not, but I do and I see the romance in it. It really doesn't matter whether you do or not, it wouldn't be for you.
If he continues to play for a club with Qatar money in the French league, why not?
What a game last night.
Would be a cute point if it also wasn't the case in the CL or World Cup.
Maybe he'll end up as the best ever
But to compare Mbappe's final performance to Zidane's in 1998 is insulting football itself
Mbappe was doing nothing until the subs came on, I'd argue Kolo-Muani and Thuram both had more impact than him as far as actual contribution beyond G/A go
A hat trick in a final is a legendary achievement but there's 2 pens ffs
At 24 he's probably already in the Henry/Benzema bracket which says something about how incredible he is
But to compare Mbappe's final performance to Zidane's in 1998 is insulting football itself
Mbappe was doing nothing until the subs came on, I'd argue Kolo-Muani and Thuram both had more impact than him as far as actual contribution beyond G/A go
A hat trick in a final is a legendary achievement but there's 2 pens ffs
At 24 he's probably already in the Henry/Benzema bracket which says something about how incredible he is
He is good but not there yet.
I think this is an excellent list, I would put him 5th in front of Eric behind Vieira.
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ranked-the-10-best-french-players-ever
I think this is an excellent list, I would put him 5th in front of Eric behind Vieira.
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ranked-the-10-best-french-players-ever
Any lists that has Platini third, especially behind Henry, is not an excellent list.
Ah come on, Mbappé was the one driving France in that final from 70 minutes onwards, sure he didn’t have a good start to the game but outside the goals, there was one great cross Muani could have got to, a few mazy dribbles.
L’Equipe gave him a 9 ffs, the harshest rater of all.
That ranking is absolutely horrible.
If it's NT only Ribery has no business being there and Griezmann missing is a joke
If it's overall career then Benzema not being in the top 10 is an utter f joke
Fair enough.
I dont think Mbappe was driving the team any more than Thuram,Kolo Muani or Coman
He scored a beautiful goal and had nerves of steel on these pens but it was a collective effort
That whole Mbappe carried France to a comeback narrative only exist because he was the one taking pens
I'd argue Kolo-Muani had the most open play impact out of all attackers from the 70th minute onwards actually
As long as he plays in France he'll have an asterisk next to his stats.
It's funny how you mention the beautiful goal, but then have that take in the next sentence. They all had an impact, but it was absolute Mbappe that drove the team back into believing they could win. You don't get there without that second goal, and as we've seen this world cup, scoring high-stakes penalties are not easy, doesn't get much higher-stake than putting 3 of them past their GK in a world cup final.
And Mbappe never gets that chance without the effort made to serve it to him in the first place. It was the lack of pressing and ability to win duels that made the first 70 minutes so dreadful.
In the end did Mbappe have a better final than Messi? No. He had one more shot at a pen but over the whole game? No chance.
History will remember his final more fondly than its actual content thanks to the two pens is all I'm saying. Because it wasnt a Zidane 98 type final where one players takes over the whole game completely
It's funny isn't it?
That's an exaggeration about Zidane IMO, and he's my hero growing up. Our whole team was incredible outside of Guivarch and Desailly after his red card, and Barthez had to come up huge, the team overall showed up far more than what Mbappe had with him for the first 70 minutes of this game. I also think his final was better than Messi's overall, even if it was only in 20 minutes + ET. I'm not even sure Messi was Argentina's best player today, and I really don't think he was better individually than Mbappe, even if we take the whole game in consideration.
He scored an incredible goal, the pass wasn't a brilliant pass, it was a lob, his run is what made the goal happen, that's not serving it on a platter or anything like that, it's a hell of a goal. The second penalty, he's the one creating it. At the end of the day, Zidane won his final, Mbappe didn't this time, but as far as individual performances, it's hard to top those 20+ minutes, even if there was nothing much prior to that from the whole team.
Zidane isn't dragging that French side to constant brilliance for those first 70 minutes either, they were dealing with whatever they were dealing with, it actually feels very similarly lethargic as how Brazil came out in that '98 final.
I'm talking about the 1998 final alone not the whole tournament
Zidane's 1998 final performance is on a different galaxy compared to Mbappe's last night
Scored 2 open play goals and could have had 2 or 3 assists with the chances he was providing
Yes, but context matters to me. That Brazil team was there for the taking, it's much harder dragging a team that lethargic for 70 minutes and in the span of a minute bringing them back level from two goals down. I'm not even debating who had the better final between him and Zidane, I'm saying what Mbappe did was more impressive than what Messi did this final. It's definitely not in a different galaxy, that's massively over the top.
Did you see his CL and WC stats?
I did. He'll shatter Klose's record in 2026. Still doesn't change the fact that because he plays in France he won't recieve the plaudits he probably deserves.
It wasn't a putdown, but don't you think he will genuinely have a better chance of breaking those kinds of records with PSG in Ligue 1, than if he went to the Premier League, for example?
He's top 3 all time in my opinion but not the best. Still Zidane for me, closely followed by Henry. But Mbappe is coming quickly.
I think he will join RM eventually for that reason, eventually it won't be about money solely and he will move.
RM has prestige that PSG will take 30 years to get, and the league will never be huge because it takes so many elements to get right, the premier league took 30 years to get to where it is.
I see Mbappe elsewhere by 26
What plaudits is he currently lacking ?
Platini is way better than Henry.
Meanwhile in the Premier League…
I'm pretty sure Real Madrid scored from a lot of crosses too on their way to win the CLRespect your opinion but i'm taking Henry every time.
Its a long way away but it's going to be really interesting to see how he adapts his game when he hits his mid 30s and doesn't have that blistering pace. That gives him the edge at the moment to create space.
Based on what? I don't think that I have ever seen anyone even try to pretend that Henry was close to Platini.
That's the big one for me too, he will lose a lot of pace, it starts around 27 28
You don't score as much as he has, in all those big moments with being pace your main asset. I think he will be fine