Red in STL
Turnover not takeover
I'm talking 1980-83 ish but I suspect the posh birds are still there!Oh for sure. I'm talking ancient history here. 1973 - 77.
I'm talking 1980-83 ish but I suspect the posh birds are still there!Oh for sure. I'm talking ancient history here. 1973 - 77.
We're talking football fans here, common sense goes out of the window when they get to the ground or enter an online forum!You make a lot of valid points, ultimately folks should not need to be told by government and the FA to act decently it should be a simple case self discipline and taking personal responsibility. Opposing and contrasting views on all issues are great to see here, so long as we can all stay civil.
It's not that I don't want to hear your opinion. It's that it's so cliche and old, that we've heard it all before mate, it's not original.I’m sure you would like that. And by the way, that’s not advice. That’s you bunging your fingers in your ears going La-la-la because you can’t handle an alternate opinion that doesn’t fit the narrative. But I’ve always stood by my opinions and always will… that’s not to say I can’t ever change my opinions, I have many times but I do that when I want to, not other people.
Well it's irrelevant because you're talking about someone claiming racism where there was no mention of skin colour, ethnicity or any kind of slur used.How is it though? I don’t want to drag this thread off-topic at all, but there have been plenty of instances where people have actually used the colour of their skin, their sexual orientation etc to try and deflect from something… by accusing that person of prejudice in some way. Everyone knows that this does happen from time to time… the point I’m trying to make is, just because a certain group says something is offensive… doesn’t mean what theyre saying is correct. What if other gay people were to come on here, and say they don’t find the chant offensive? Then what? Who do you listen to?
It's one thing to keep saying something is homophobic and offensive but it might be helpful if they would explain why it is.Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
It's been done to death in the thread. I can only assume some people just don't actually want to listen.It's one thing to keep saying something is homophobic and offensive but it might be helpful if they would explain why it is.
I'm not a fan of what I consider to be extremist and misguided LGBTQ, Feminist and BLM movements in the West, but I'd imagine that this has something to do with the playing up of derogatory stereotypes that are generally no longer true, and hence harmful to a community that have to put up with it.It's one thing to keep saying something is homophobic and offensive but it might be helpful if they would explain why it is.
What needs explaining? Why calling someone a gay prostitute is homophobic and offensive or what "Rentboy" means? (It means gay male prostitute).It's one thing to keep saying something is homophobic and offensive but it might be helpful if they would explain why it is.
Sorry for the late reply.You only have to Google 'football prostitute chant' and see there have also been chants towards players who have been caught with female prostitutes...
Heard it all before have you? That's too bad... well, as long as this current trend of finding new things to be offended by every week continues, and trying to force people into thinking the same way (while dressing it up as "being progressive"), people like myself will continue to push back against it, and you're gonna keep hearing it, I'm afraid. We're not just gonna eventually go quiet and submit. And... It's not meant to be 'original', I'm not telling a joke. I'm talking about a serious matter. But the fact that you've "heard it all before" as you claim, and refuse to acknowledge what is actually going on, tells me it's a waste of time trying to explain it to you... you're too far gone.It's not that I don't want to hear your opinion. It's that it's so cliche and old, that we've heard it all before mate, it's not original.
The reason why you're getting the response is that the pattern is the same.
Play devil's advocate.
People disagree.
Claim you're being attacked for your point of view.
It's Facebook atheist debating circa 09.
Listening, and agreeing, are not the same thing.It's been done to death in the thread. I can only assume some people just don't actually want to listen.
Why is that relevant though? If a Chelsea player at the time had been caught with the same guy... what would the difference have been?Sorry for the late reply.
Yeah - but this wasn't a football player, it was a fan.
Go to a football ground and give a go.Heard it all before have you? That's too bad... well, as long as this current trend of finding new things to be offended by every week continues, and trying to force people into thinking the same way (while dressing it up as "being progressive"), people like myself will continue to push back against it, and you're gonna keep hearing it, I'm afraid. We're not just gonna eventually go quiet and submit. And... It's not meant to be 'original', I'm not telling a joke. I'm talking about a serious matter. But the fact that you've "heard it all before" as you claim, and refuse to acknowledge what is actually going on, tells me it's a waste of time trying to explain it to you... you're too far gone.
I think you're missing the point here:Why is that relevant though? If a Chelsea player at the time had been caught with the same guy... what would the difference had been?
By listening I meant understanding what was being said by a minority who have historically been and often continue to be insulted, discriminated against and suffer violence because of their sexuality.Listening, and agreeing, are not the same thing.
If the clubs, the Crown Prosecution Service, the clubs' supporters clubs and LGBT fan organisations are all telling you it's offensive, why are you so desperate to push back on that? What is the gain here?Heard it all before have you? That's too bad... well, as long as this current trend of finding new things to be offended by every week continues, and trying to force people into thinking the same way (while dressing it up as "being progressive"), people like myself will continue to push back against it, and you're gonna keep hearing it, I'm afraid. We're not just gonna eventually go quiet and submit. And... It's not meant to be 'original', I'm not telling a joke. I'm talking about a serious matter. But the fact that you've "heard it all before" as you claim, and refuse to acknowledge what is actually going on, tells me it's a waste of time trying to explain it to you... you're too far gone.
I wouldn't bank on that if you persist in this threadYou're gonna keep hearing it, I'm afraid.
So you don't believe in progress, education and learning about ourselves as a society so we can correct previously problematic behaviours from bygone eras?Heard it all before have you? That's too bad... well, as long as this current trend of finding new things to be offended by every week continues, and trying to force people into thinking the same way (while dressing it up as "being progressive"), people like myself will continue to push back against it, and you're gonna keep hearing it, I'm afraid. We're not just gonna eventually go quiet and submit. And... It's not meant to be 'original', I'm not telling a joke. I'm talking about a serious matter. But the fact that you've "heard it all before" as you claim, and refuse to acknowledge what is actually going on, tells me it's a waste of time trying to explain it to you... you're too far gone.
The level of self-importance in this post is hilarious.Heard it all before have you? That's too bad... well, as long as this current trend of finding new things to be offended by every week continues, and trying to force people into thinking the same way (while dressing it up as "being progressive"), people like myself will continue to push back against it, and you're gonna keep hearing it, I'm afraid. We're not just gonna eventually go quiet and submit. And... It's not meant to be 'original', I'm not telling a joke. I'm talking about a serious matter. But the fact that you've "heard it all before" as you claim, and refuse to acknowledge what is actually going on, tells me it's a waste of time trying to explain it to you... you're too far gone.
He has nothing to back up his point of view either. It's "well I did it before and no one said anything then, why should I stop now?". It's a childlike argument and doesn't try to look any deeper at why people are saying it and justifies not doing so, by saying it's PC culture gone mad.It's not that I don't want to hear your opinion. It's that it's so cliche and old, that we've heard it all before mate, it's not original.
The reason why you're getting the response is that the pattern is the same.
Play devil's advocate.
People disagree.
Claim you're being attacked for your point of view.
It's Facebook atheist debating circa 09.
That classic homophobic tradition.The rent boy chants are tradition at this point.
It should go away (like every other derogatory chant) but in a strange way I've gotten used to the news of it of being sang popping up again from time to time.That classic homophobic tradition.
That classic homophobic tradition.
I think this is what people are forgetting. You may not currently feel like you are being homophobic, as you've always said it and never thought of it like that, but it's rooted in homophobia. It's carried through the last half century, tacking on to any sort of cultural reference with Chelsea, as a homophobic slur.It should go away (like every other derogatory chant) but in a strange way I've gotten used to the news of it of being sang popping up again from time to time.
Yeah... that's not going to be my main objective, to try and start that chant when going to a football ground. In fact, it wouldn't even be on my mind. It's not about trying to be childish... it's just refusing to do anything differently than what I would've already done before, it's that simple. And what do you mean about homophobic slurs? I don't find myself using the term "rentboy" in conversations with mates, but then we don't usually get into discussions about male prostitutes, funnily enough. I'm sure you'd find something in my conversations to get worked up by though.Go to a football ground and give a go.
Oh and the people who think we shouldn't use homophobic slurs to insult opposing fans because of something that may or not have happened 30 years ago are the ones that are too far gone? That's pretty funny.
Do you use homophobic slurs in general conversation with your mates, because you know it's free speech and they're only words?
That's fine. Like I said in the first post, I was prepared for this to be the case, because this is what happens. It'd only prove me right. However... I will say this... I'm only replying now to other's posts that are directed at me, and answering people's questions, which I'm surely allowed to do. I've made it clear what my views are. I'd happily not post anything more in this thread if I didn't have people quoting me and talking directly to me, so...I wouldn't bank on that if you persist in this thread
I absolutely do. You'd be surprised. One of my favourite countries in the world in fact, is the Netherlands. If I'm not mistaken, they were one of the first in Europe to legalise homosexuality, gay marriage, transsexuality, marijuana, prostitution etc etc... and I admire them for that a great deal. I believe in freedom 100%. Not only the freedom to BE who you are, but also, just as importantly, the freedom to express yourself, and your beliefs. Unfortunately, the latter seems to be dying and has been for a long time. I guess me and you most likely have different ideas on what progression means.So you don't believe in progress, education and learning about ourselves as a society so we can correct previously problematic behaviours from bygone eras?
I don't see the gain from that sort of petty belligerence tbh. Times change and with them the acceptability of certain words or phrases. I cringe now at some of the things we said at school in the 80s and 90s, but at least I've moved on from that.Yeah... that's not going to be my main objective, to try and start that chant when going to a football ground. In fact, it wouldn't even be on my mind. It's not about trying to be childish... it's just refusing to do anything differently than what I would've already done before, it's that simple. And what do you mean about homophobic slurs? I don't find myself using the term "rentboy" in conversations with mates, but then we don't usually get into discussions about male prostitutes, funnily enough. I'm sure you'd find something in my conversations to get worked up by though.
So you wouldn't use the chant yourself so we won't keep hearing it from you. What exactly are you defending in that case?Yeah... that's not going to be my main objective, to try and start that chant when going to a football ground. In fact, it wouldn't even be on my mind. It's not about trying to be childish... it's just refusing to do anything differently than what I would've already done before, it's that simple. And what do you mean about homophobic slurs? I don't find myself using the term "rentboy" in conversations with mates, but then we don't usually get into discussions about male prostitutes, funnily enough. I'm sure you'd find something in my conversations to get worked up by though.
There's a discussion to be had about this.Not only the freedom to BE who you are, but also, just as importantly, the freedom to express yourself, and your beliefs. Unfortunately, the latter seems to be dying and has been for a long time.
This is such vague nonsense. You do realise, you've not actually said anything pertinent? Just sweeping generalisations that have nothing to do with what you're talking about.I absolutely do. You'd be surprised. One of my favourite countries in the world in fact, is the Netherlands. If I'm not mistaken, they were one of the first in Europe to legalise homosexuality, gay marriage, transsexuality, marijuana, prostitution etc etc... and I admire them for that a great deal. I believe in freedom 100%. Not only the freedom to BE who you are, but also, just as importantly, the freedom to express yourself, and your beliefs. Unfortunately, the latter seems to be dying and has been for a long time. I guess me and you most likely have different ideas on what progression means.
This is what is frustrating about stuff like this though because it's conflating to issues that aren't linked at all. Freedom to chant rent boys at a football match, aren't the thing people are defending.There's a discussion to be had about this.
But this rent boy thing is not a good hill to die on. It's obviously homophobic in origin, and should be treated as such.
I know that some people aren't defending that - yes.Freedom to chant rent boys at a football match, aren't the thing people are defending.
Wow... I have no wordsI'm sure I'll be warned, or probably banned (not that it'll make any difference to my opinion), for daring to go against the grain on what is clearly a very woke forum... but the song is NOT homophobic... it is clear to anyone with a brain (i.e. someone who can think for themselves and not just follow the media/Twitter on whatever they have decided the latest topic of "outrage" is) that the target of the joke is male prostitutes... not gay men themselves. If the Chelsea hooligan had been caught lying in bed with a man who was simply his partner, then that wouldn't be funny, and any mocking of that would be downright homophobic, sure... but it is do with the "prostitute" aspect of it. I don't get why this is so difficult for many of you to understand. Of course, in 2023, I don't expect anyone who already has the opposite view to me on this to change. However, I accept that everyone is entitled to their opinions, and if people choose to look at it a different way and therefore be offended by it, that is their right, but it doesn't mean that everyone that is offended has the right to try and force everyone to abide by their views, and try to get people banned from a stadium for singing a harmless song. Why must we always pander to these people? Being offended, doesn't always mean, you're RIGHT.
I'm sure I'll get the usual responses that I see on here such as "Wow... I have no words", whenever somebody in the minority DARES to state their alternate views (shock! horror! ) but hey, I honestly couldn't care less.
Nor do they in this thread.Wow... I have no words
This routine people like you and your carbon copies always do is so strange.Heard it all before have you? That's too bad... well, as long as this current trend of finding new things to be offended by every week continues, and trying to force people into thinking the same way (while dressing it up as "being progressive"), people like myself will continue to push back against it, and you're gonna keep hearing it, I'm afraid. We're not just gonna eventually go quiet and submit. And... It's not meant to be 'original', I'm not telling a joke. I'm talking about a serious matter. But the fact that you've "heard it all before" as you claim, and refuse to acknowledge what is actually going on, tells me it's a waste of time trying to explain it to you... you're too far gone.
The feck does this mean?pragmatic society
In addition, those chants are aimed at the players who were caught, not anyone and everyone connected to the clubs the players played for. One Chelsea fan allegedly bought sex once several decades ago, so therefore it somehow makes sense that professional footballer Conor Gallagher also moonlights as a prostitute serving other men? Rooney is called a granny shagger, Garnacho or random fans aren't.Sorry for the late reply.
Yeah - but this wasn't a football player, it was a fan.
Agreed, and being specific as well. You can't get away with, well if they stop this - what's next? Or, I don't believe there's anything you can't say.I know that some people aren't defending that - yes.
But what exactly are they defending?
As much clarity/transparency as possible seems to be desirable here.
Abuse because you’re gay = wrongI'm sure I'll be warned, or probably banned (not that it'll make any difference to my opinion), for daring to go against the grain on what is clearly a very woke forum... but the song is NOT homophobic... it is clear to anyone with a brain (i.e. someone who can think for themselves and not just follow the media/Twitter on whatever they have decided the latest topic of "outrage" is) that the target of the joke is male prostitutes... not gay men themselves. If the Chelsea hooligan had been caught lying in bed with a man who was simply his partner, then that wouldn't be funny, and any mocking of that would be downright homophobic, sure... but it is do with the "prostitute" aspect of it. I don't get why this is so difficult for many of you to understand. Of course, in 2023, I don't expect anyone who already has the opposite view to me on this to change. However, I accept that everyone is entitled to their opinions, and if people choose to look at it a different way and therefore be offended by it, that is their right, but it doesn't mean that everyone that is offended has the right to try and force everyone to abide by their views, and try to get people banned from a stadium for singing a harmless song. Why must we always pander to these people? Being offended, doesn't always mean, you're RIGHT.
I'm sure I'll get the usual responses that I see on here such as "Wow... I have no words", whenever somebody in the minority DARES to state their alternate views (shock! horror! ) but hey, I honestly couldn't care less.