LGBT issues in Football

esmufc07

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Thought this was a good article highlighting issues within football. Also the issue of the 2022 WC being held in a country where homosexuality is illegal and punishable by death.

Does football need to do more than it’s doing?




 

Desert Eagle

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It's part of the duality of football in particular. It's ease of access has enabled its global reach and the passion and devotion it inspires often comes from very unsavory people. Racists, sexists, gay haters, anti Muslim, anti jew etc. Fifa/uefa like all.big corporations nowadays puts money ahead of any sort of ethics or morality and therefore these things will continue to happen until the consumers demand better or those in charge change.
 

horsechoker

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Football is happy to rainbow wash its brand but not actually try and make a difference.

In the women's game its better but the men's game its far behind.
 

ariveded

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Many players comes from places where LGBT is criminalized, so will they stand up for change or, talk about their own stance?

It's such players themselves who are part of the problem, and even believer of such backwardness.
 

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I would say it's up to the EU to respond, rather than a football organisation (although they can play a role obviously).

How can you expect UEFA to do anything as long as the EU turns a blind eye to institutionalised homophobia in Poland, oppression of free press in Hungary, and so on?

We've seen what the limits of a sporting organisation are. Taking the knee, making sombre ads, flying the rainbow flag: that's all well and good, but how effective is this all really?
 

Oranges038

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It is how the world is.

Different people from different countries with different backgrounds and religions have different beliefs and values. It really is mad when you think about it, why can't everybody believe in the one god and accept everybody for who they are.

Not sure why anyone would believe that FIFA or UEFA of all organisations would try and do something about it.
 

Bogga

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It is how the world is.

Different people from different countries with different backgrounds and religions have different beliefs and values. It really is mad when you think about it, why can't everybody believe in the one god and accept everybody for who they are.

Not sure why anyone would believe that FIFA or UEFA of all organisations would try and do something about it.
There's actually a lot of them... Thor, Odin, Freya, Frigg and so on :)
 

Ajr

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I believe that even football in the uk is not welcoming for lgbt people, nor many sports to be honest having been a part of many locker rooms for a couple of different sports. National associations will preach about inclusivity meanwhile hiring coaches that are actively homophobic/transphobic saying they refuse to coach gay people etc and that's from my experience at a pretty high level of sport. I get shouted down often about trans people not being able to compete fairly too, but they just want to be able to play at some kind of level the same as everyone else.
 

Oranges038

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There's actually a lot of them... Thor, Odin, Freya, Frigg and so on :)
Haha, I read somewhere that there are as many as 12000 gods recorded through history and possibly even more. The idea that there is even one god is far fetched in my view. But, I should have said one, not the one. That's just a bit of a colloquialism.
 

Cait Sith

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The world is how it is. A few days ago I watched a documentary about Africa. In Congo they queue up in masses for a dude who sells them "magic juice" to heal AIDS, cancer and pretty much every other disease. He makes millions out of it and fills entire football stadiums to preach (at least it's used for something after World Cup 2010 I suppose).

More than half the planet lives in the stone ages mentally. First world urban metropolitan minority social justice issues are not on the radar of 85 % of the world's population. Football institutions and where a football tournament takes place won't change much about it. The world is not New York, London and Berlin. Everyone knows this without "Twitter awarness raising".
 

Bogga

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Haha, I read somewhere that there are as many as 12000 gods recorded through history and possibly even more. The idea that there is even one god is far fetched in my view. But, I should have said one, not the one. That's just a bit of a colloquialism.
I'd rather see us all just agree on zero... Religion is obviously a major reason for this and lots of other bad shit happening all over the world... That's sadly just wishful thinking though
 

decorativeed

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The world is how it is. A few days ago I watched a documentary about Africa. In Congo they queue up in masses for a dude who sells them "magic juice" to heal AIDS, cancer and pretty much every other disease. He makes millions out of it and fills entire football stadiums to preach (at least it's used for something after World Cup 2010 I suppose).

More than half the planet lives in the stone ages mentally. First world urban metropolitan minority social justice issues are not on the radar of 85 % of the world's population. Football institutions and where a football tournament takes place won't change much about it. The world is not New York, London and Berlin. Everyone knows this without "Twitter awarness raising".
Since when was the 2010 World Cup held in Congo?
 

Tomuś

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Crafton is talking through his arse, I'm Polish and must say he joins the prestigious company of that Racist Campbell incident when he urged English fans not to come or they'll be returning in coffins.

Sometimes I wonder if Western Europe is really that educated.
 
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esmufc07

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Crafton is talking through his arse, I'm Polish and must say he joins the prestigious company of that Racist Campbell incident when he urged English fans not to come or they'll be returning in coffins.

Sometime I wonder if Western Europe is really that educated.
Out of interest what has he said that is incorrect?
 

OnlyTwoDaSilvas

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Out of interest what has he said that is incorrect?
I'd be keen to know this too. There are numerous sources other than Adam Crafton illustrating anti-LGBT issues in Poland.

This is a pretty awful read, which mentioned a few things which Crafton has referred to.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-54191344

And this:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...osexuality-makes-you-enemy-of-state-in-poland

President Andrzej Duda made opposition to gay rights a key theme of his re-election in July, calling them more destructive than the communists that ruled the country for more than 40 years.

“Stop listening to this idiocy about human rights or equality,” Przemyslaw Czarnek, a Law & Justice parliamentarian and ally of Duda, told national television during the election campaign. “These people are not equal to normal people.” Last month, he was appointed education minister.
That reads like something out of an X-Men comic, which is essentially an allegory for the civil rights movement in the 60s. Except, this has happened in just the last few years.
 

Rozay

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That thread is pretty grim reading to be honest, but I don’t see the link between it and the fact that there’s a football match in Poland. Not sure I get the ‘why are we not talking about this ahead of the final’ angle. I’d say it is because it has nothing to do with the final. Of course, the attitudes to homophobia in Poland sound dire and need addressing, but at the same time, I’m not sure how it is football’s problem per se.
 

Tomuś

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Out of interest what has he said that is incorrect?
In 1990s loads of cumunist papers' people joined British media as 'insiders on Poland'. Them losing Poland they want meant they were goint to paint Poland in an incredibly bad light. I mean, Independece March 2 years ago was called 60 k fascists' march. Like, you know, shouldn't be a problem adding up some bits of our country, wars, occupation for any self-respected journalist.

No LGBT person I know here has any problems, nor have I seen any.
 

Tomuś

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I'd be keen to know this too. There are numerous sources other than Adam Crafton illustrating anti-LGBT issues in Poland.

This is a pretty awful read, which mentioned a few things which Crafton has referred to.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-54191344

And this:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/feat...osexuality-makes-you-enemy-of-state-in-poland



That reads like something out of an X-Men comic, which is essentially an allegory for the civil rights movement in the 60s. Except, this has happened in just the last few years.
Nice translations and context.
 

432JuanMata

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I work with a girl who is from Poland and is in a relationship with a woman. In Ireland it’s no big deal she is even allowed get married and nobody judges which I’m proud of. But she told me she and her GF where thinking of going back home to Poland but can’t because it is frowned upon over there.
 

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I work with a girl who is from Poland and is in a relationship with a woman. In Ireland it’s no big deal she is even allowed get married and nobody judges which I’m proud of. But she told me she and her GF where thinking of going back home to Poland but can’t because it is frowned upon over there.
It is pretty grim.
And I don't think anyone can seriously deny the problems. After all, there are public statements by politicians and clerics. There is nothing to gloss over and it is not a bias against Poland.
 

Tomuś

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I work with a girl who is from Poland and is in a relationship with a woman. In Ireland it’s no big deal she is even allowed get married and nobody judges which I’m proud of. But she told me she and her GF where thinking of going back home to Poland but can’t because it is frowned upon over there.
Nah, maybe 20 yrs ago it was controverial bur now? Even our soaps/movies are full of one gender relationships.


Jesus I'm sure some of the UK newspapers' readers think we stone LGBT people. Doesn't surprise me one bit to be fair, given my previous comment on 'Polish' journos doing the stuff in English, Germany, France media.
 

Tomuś

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That's interesting, I have always wanted to get a perspective from someone who lives there. So out of interest how many LGBT people do you know there?
Well, I'm a teacher so obviously will know some as they're mostly younger people. No problem, no bullying, ridiculing etc.
 

SilentWitness

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In 1990s loads of cumunist papers' people joined British media as 'insiders on Poland'. Them losing Poland they want meant they were goint to paint Poland in an incredibly bad light. I mean, Independece March 2 years ago was called 60 k fascists' march. Like, you know, shouldn't be a problem adding up some bits of our country, wars, occupation for any self-respected journalist.

No LGBT person I know here has any problems, nor have I seen any.
how come @Sarni posted something about his town becoming an lgbt free zone in 2020 then? Feels like you’re putting your head in the sand a bit here.
 

432JuanMata

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It is pretty grim.
And I don't think anyone can seriously deny the problems. After all, there are public statements by politicians and clerics. There is nothing to gloss over and it is not a bias against Poland.
It’s not bias at all I work with a good few polish people and they are nice. But she told me that men get beaten up by gangs or worse if they are gay in Poland. It happens in the likes of Ukraine, Poland, Belarus etc. I’ve been to most these countries and I like the people and the countries but I wouldn’t go there if I was gay. I generally fear for my safety.

I have lived in Ireland my whole life. Years ago when my Gran and even Mom where grown up the church ruled the country. Years ago you had to write to the church to use condoms my Gran did and they said go home and be a good wife to your husband.
Ireland was so far behind but in the last 20 years we made abortion legal, Gay marriage legal and much more. We went from way behind to ahead. Hopefully these countries do the same as it’s horrible to see these days
 

Tomuś

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Polish respondents to the 2019 Fundamental Rights Agency survey disagree, which holds more weight than anecdotal evidence of one person.

https://fra.europa.eu/sites/default/files/fra_uploads/fra-2020-lgbti-equality-1_en.pdf
hmmm, survey writen by EU? Now that is definitely credible, given our great relationship with them.

It's like seeing the poll numbers they show before the election on different tv stations.

You have your own mind and I couldn't care less to change that. Believe in whatever fairy tale you want to as long as fit.

Happy anyway :)
 

Tomuś

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how come @Sarni posted something about his town becoming an lgbt free zone in 2020 then? Feels like you’re putting your head in the sand a bit here.
becoming an lgbt free zone. Sounds vicious. You mean that crappy sign in the moddle of nowhere?
 

Tomuś

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And I have no business 'putting my head in the sand' as I really don't care what anyone believes. Obviously you lot been to Poland before and stayed for a month or so I reckon.
 

Maagge

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And I have no business 'putting my head in the sand' as I really don't care what anyone believe. Obviously you lot been to Poland before and stayed for a month or so I reckon.
:wenger:
 

432JuanMata

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And I have no business 'putting my head in the sand' as I really don't care what anyone believe. Obviously you lot been to Poland before and stayed for a month or so I reckon.
Lived there for 4 months if you must know. Loved my time being Irish and mainly there drinking I loved the locals and it’s a fantastic country but I’m sticking to what I’m saying being gay there is frowned upon and a lot different than England/Ireland. By the way I’m not saying say Ireland is great you will get people that are anti this and racist but it’s accepted much more than Poland
 

pablo__p

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Crafton is talking through his arse, I'm Polish and must say he joins the prestigious company of that Racist Campbell incident when he urged English fans not to come or they'll be returning in coffins.

Sometimes I wonder if Western Europe is really that educated.

I'm Polish too and while it's not perfect over here you are right. This is a disappointing read. Expected more from the Athletic, quality-wise.

What the government and church say is one thing (and I abhor their narrative so much) but regular life is another. Big cities fortunately are good places to live in.

Interesting that we are not hearing anything on the anti-gay stance of the Muslim. How come?


Half of all British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...se-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law
 

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becoming an lgbt free zone. Sounds vicious. You mean that crappy sign in the moddle of nowhere?
sorry dude, lgbt free zones are not 'crappy signs on the middle of nowhere' but a reality for people whose lives are directly affected by this. don't pretend that pride events are routinely attacked by far right groups. oh, age the recent violence against lgbt exercise events. homophobia and transphobia is rife on Poland.

While Warsaw and other larger cities are more welcoming these days, the same can't be said for the majority of the country.

Fur the record, I've lived in Poland for almost 10 years and have something of a vested interest in the lgbt community.
 

Sarni

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how come @Sarni posted something about his town becoming an lgbt free zone in 2020 then? Feels like you’re putting your head in the sand a bit here.
Maybe in big cities it’s a non-issue. Any smaller town LGBT person is going to likely live through a nightmare.
 

Tomuś

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Tell us a bit more on why those far right groups attack them in the first place? What those lovely souls do to churches, other protests, outdoor praying etc. What language they use standing right in front of the kids.
 

432JuanMata

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I'm Polish too and while it's not perfect over here you are right. This is a disappointing read. Expected more from the Athletic, quality-wise.

What the government and church say is one thing (and I abhor their narrative so much) but regular life is another. Big cities fortunately are good places to live in.

Interesting that we are not hearing anything on the anti-gay stance of the Muslim. How come?


Half of all British Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...se-of-belonging-poll-homosexuality-sharia-law
While I’m saying negative about Poland I’m not saying it’s the majority of people and I’m sure it’s one of the countries that it has never been illegal ? It’s just from what I seen I wouldn’t be comfortable, I’m not saying it’s like any African or Middle East country I’m just comparing to Europe as a whole. As you said every country has its negatives and while I feel Poland is one of the most developing countries over the last few years it still falls behind the top countries in this matter.

As I said I’ve lived in Poland in 2018 for 4 months travelling most of the country and from a personal point it was nothing but perfect. The amount of times I was in local bars with people I couldn’t speak a lick of Polish they couldn’t speak English but we got on so well.
 
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