How well-regarded would de Gea have been in the 2000s and 90s?

[Brwned]

The premise of the question somewhat skips past the fact that he was cited as arguably the best or second best goalkeeper in the world even within the 2010s. He wasn't in the PL team of the year for literally half that decade for no reason, he was very highly regarded even within his own era.

Also, his reputation dimishing somewhat isn't just down to his passing, sweeping, etc. He also simply started making more mistakes than he did previously, which will hurt you in any decade.

But generally yes, distribution and sweeping are two of his weaknesses so if he played in an era with less emphasis on that then it would at least help. But if you're playing football at the highest level for 13+ years then you're gonna live through some changes I guess.

Yep I mostly agree with this. I do think even if he maintained his standard for a decade, he’d start to lose a bit of his standing as sweeper keepers became more important. But the standard he reached in his first few years was levels above his last few years, and he was terrible for a good chunk of time. Shame, but he easily talked himself out of the conversation of being one of the best of his generation through his performances alone.

It’s unfortunate that people think his recent return to decent form is anything like his early form. He was a brilliant keeper for a while, we weren’t just ignoring his weaknesses. He’s had a crisis of confidence, a loss of belief, and just isn’t the same keeper.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

It does matter how commanding they were perceived to be. De Gea would've been surrounded by the same defenders as they were. Put Rio, Vidic, Stam, Pallister, Neville, Irwin, Evra et al., each at their respective peaks around any good keeper and that keeper will appear far better than say De Gea has for most of his United career when prior to this year, he hasn't had any top quality defenders (late stage Rio and Vidic with young De Gea weren't exactly peak Rio and Vidic during the mid 2000s)

I see what you're saying. You aren't saying he is one of the best ever, just that putting him in those elite sides would give him that status. Probably true.

Although I think people sometimes forget how much of a big game bottler DDG can be

 

[AlPistacho]

The real ones still regard De Gea as one of the all-time greats.

And that's all I'll say on this matter.

Exactly. De Gea in a United team that wins a few more prems and maybe a CL gets viewed as our greatest keeper ever.

 

[Oranges038]

who was the best “shot stopper” around in the 90s, I wanna say Pagliuca but that may be completely wrong

Aside from Big Pete.

Pagliuca would be up there.

Kahn was alright too.

Preud'homme either.

Mental to think back you could also make a case for VDS to be in there too.

 

[AlPistacho]

Aside from Big Pete.

Pagliuca would be up there.

Kahn was alright too.

Preud'homme either.

Mental to think back you could also make a case for VDS to be in there too.

Bosnich was very good, until the powder caught up to him.

 

[Gazza]

If you look at the EPL in the early 2000s, he's basically a much better version of Shay Given. Even in the 2000s, goalkeepers were expected to come off their line and it was often said of Given that this was his shortcoming.

 

[Shai-Hulud]

Back then it was even more important to be physically up for the part and get off your goal line during set pieces when the ball was in the mixer. I think he'd have been thought less off in the era of Schmeichel and Kahn.

This.

 

[dinostar77]

The real ones still regard De Gea as one of the all-time greats.

And that's all I'll say on this matter.

+1

 

[Oranges038]

Nah, his concentration is shite. He'd be constantly dropping plates and forgetting orders.

Ah now.

Clumsy Spanish waiter is such a baseless stereotype.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[Teja]

tl;dr Not very well.

His set piece / cross claiming numbers are poor.

He's not as good a general shot stopper as people believe he is. (PSxG - xG numbers)

One thing though is that good goalkeeping has many layers to it and you can dice it in many different ways. Long range vs medium range vs 1v1s etc. etc. DDG is world class at some of these areas and those are really noticeable so people think he's a great shot stopper.

No keeper is perfect obviously, data shows Alison is for instance the best 1v1 keeper in the league where as Ederson struggles against medium range shots. As with all things in life there's nuance.

As a whole package DDG isn't good enough for United. Doesn't matter if it's 90s or now.

I only wish our data department gets reasonably sophisticated pretty quickly because that'll enable Murtough and co to make reasonable decisions instead of just relying on a key man's (EtH) judgement about everything.

 

[Hester_manc]

Back then it was even more important to be physically up for the part and get off your goal line during set pieces when the ball was in the mixer. I think he'd have been thought less off in the era of Schmeichel and Kahn.

Schmeichel and Kahn were better keepers in all areas, as I see it.

 

[horsechoker]

I wish I would've said I'm not into discussion

 

[JB7]

Exactly. De Gea in a United team that wins a few more prems and maybe a CL gets viewed as our greatest keeper ever.

If he was more aerially capable he’d have beaten Kompany to the ball & won the league in 11/12 to be fair

 

[Pronewbie]

I'd gladly take Schmeichel and VDS over him. So no, not that highly regarded. De Gea had a great couple of years though, despite his flaws. Then his confidence and concentration got shot.

 

[RVN1991]

I don’t know, probably still our third best keeper that ever played for us but VDS would surely be ranked much higher if he played in today’s game.

De Gea at his best was easily better than any version of VDS at United.

 

[Red in STL]

De Gea at his best was easily better than any version of VDS at United.

In the 90's early 2000's I'd take VDS over any version of DDG, the game has changed, DDG's skill set is seriously lacking for the style of the game then, in today's gsme DDG would be a better choice

 

[JB7]

In the 90's early 2000's I'd take VDS over any version of DDG, the game has changed, DDG's skill set is seriously lacking for the style of the game then, in today's gsme DDG would be a better choice

Literally how?! VDS would be even more highly thought of in the modern game than he was then.

 

[Red in STL]

Literally how?! VDS would be even more highly thought of in the modern game than he was then.

In what way, distribution and commanding his area - what else?

 

[AlPistacho]

If he was more aerially capable he’d have beaten Kompany to the ball & won the league in 11/12 to be fair

Easy to forget he joined at 20 after only a season or so at Atletico

 

[AlPistacho]

I'd go for Schmeichel personally but Pagliuca is a great shout as well. Preud'homme was also somewhere at the top.

Preud'homme sounds like a perfume

 

[Invictus]

de Gea from 2013—18 would have been highly regarded in practically any period; he was just an incredible difference-maker as a reactive shot-stopper and rarely committed any errors — characteristics that were and are very valuable. That being said, there are certain flaws in his resumé vis-à-vis bona fide greats (even if you cast aside the argument that he is a subpar fit for certain proactive styles of football, which is obviously more relevant now that in the past because of the ubiquitousness of high-possession and high-press approaches).

• Not the most domineering goalkeeper or charismatic organizer when it came to his general area, especially in comparison with the likes of Schmeichel or Kahn from the 1990s and 2000s.
• Maybe he will rediscover his peak form (unlike Casillas, who suffered a sudden collapse and never really recovered), but for now you can say that he definitely lacks the agelessness of Buffon (or even the truncated longevity of van der Sar).
• Did not produce his best football at the absolute highest stages of the sport, where legacies are enshrined (Champions League for club level, and the World Cup or European Championship for international level).

Some of these flaws would detract from his performances even in the 1990s and 2000s — he probably would have been Top 3-5 for a few years when was at the zenith of his athletic and mental capabilities (as he was in the 2010s), but I dunno if that would be enough to construct a legacy that would rival the greatest goalkeepers of the broader era (and All-Time, because Buffon, Schmeichel, Kahn, van der Sar all ended up in or around the Top 10).

 

[Devil_forever]

Can't command his box, which would make him a shit keeper by any era's standards.

 

[Pronewbie]

de Gea from 2013—18 would have been highly regarded in practically any period; he was just an incredible difference-maker as a reactive shot-stopper and rarely committed any errors — characteristics that were and are very valuable. That being said, there are certain flaws in his resumé vis-à-vis bona fide greats (even if you cast aside the argument that he is a subpar fit for certain proactive styles of football, which is obviously more relevant now that in the past because of the ubiquitousness of high-possession and high-press approaches).

• Not the most domineering goalkeeper or charismatic organizer when it came to his general area, especially in comparison with the likes of Schmeichel or Kahn from the 1990s and 2000s.
• Maybe he will rediscover his peak form (unlike Casillas, who suffered a sudden collapse and never really recovered), but for now you can say that he definitely lacks the agelessness of Buffon (or even the truncated longevity of van der Sar).
• Did not produce his best football at the absolute highest stages of the sport, where legacies are enshrined (Champions League for club level, and the World Cup or European Championship for international level).

Some of these flaws would detract from his performances even in the 1990s and 2000s — he probably would have been Top 3-5 for a few years when was at the zenith of his athletic and mental capabilities (as he was in the 2010s), but I dunno if that would be enough to construct a legacy that would rival the greatest goalkeepers of the broader era (and All-Time, because Buffon, Schmeichel, Kahn, van der Sar all ended up in or around the Top 10).

De Gea can't come for crosses either which would penalise him in an era where crosses were whipped in for fun. I'd put him under the bracket of almost a legend but not quite there. That said, he'd probably be immortalised by football clips for his shot-stopping.

 

[Bebe]

So ostensibly, how would De Gea be regarded while surrounded by the 99 or 08 sides ? One of the best ever undoubtedly.

Thank you

 

[Red in STL]

De Gea can't come for crosses either which would penalise him in an era where crosses were whipped in for fun. I'd put him under the bracket of almost a legend but not quite there. That said, he'd probably be immortalised by football clips for his shot-stopping.

That's a fair comment

 

[shamans]

De Gea is terrible in the box for earlier balls and not so special with long shots either. He would have been a top keeper but less than today

 

[Adnan]

If he was more aerially capable he’d have beaten Kompany to the ball & won the league in 11/12 to be fair

The kompany one was pretty bad and there's a number of other occasions where him being rooted to his line has cost us. And the one below against Leicester where Maguire scores in the dying minutes is just one more example.

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[Sushi Kagawa]

Over 500 appreances, about to break the club clean sheet record, stayed with us at his peak whilst the club was in a mess. Wasn't as good as Big Pete or VDS but still a legend of this club

 

[JB7]

In what way, distribution and commanding his area - what else?

Pretty much every way, he was an outstanding goalkeeper. His distribution was very good, ahead of his time with the ball at his feet really and with modern more integrated goalkeeping coaching it would be even better. His distribution with the ball in his hands was up there with Schmeichel too in terms of how quickly he saw the opportunity for a counter attack and set us away with a quick throw out. He was also a master of managing the game; you have to remember he spent his youth career in an era where goalkeepers were vital to managing and slowing down the game with backpasses still being legal, he adapted through the introduction of that law but still managed games differently, be it knowing when to catch and hold onto the ball for a few seconds longer to take the sting out of attack or quicken the game up. He didn't shut up either, his communication with the defenders in front of him was pretty much perfect; as a goalkeeper your view of the play is the best of any player on the pitch and he made sure the defenders knew what was happening around them at any given time, he was basically the blind spot (which I'd expect of goalkeeper in any era tbh). He also made some unbelievable stops in his time too, his save reel competes with goalkeepers from all eras.

 

[Dominos]

De Gea's downfall in the eyes of fans perception actually has very little to do with his ball playing (or even his other weaknesses like unwillingness to collect crosses or lack of sweeping prior to this season).

He just become very error prone in the summer of 2018. Had a dreadful world cup and started making a series of horrendous howlers for us near enough every season. Even in a "good season" like this year, he's dropped 2 horrendous howlers against Brentford and Everton by conceding from shots that your average fan could have saved.

His shot stopping is living off past reputation, he concedes plenty of goals he should do better with and doesn't even over-perform his xGA. He gets praised for making some good saves but at the risk of sounding like Roy Keane, his job is to make saves. All keepers make some good saves.

If he'd have kept his form from LVG/Mourinho days up until the present he'd still be rated highly, despite not being elite with his passing. He's just not that good any more. In his prime he basically never dropped a howler and he was a one man defence at times with his shot stopping.

 

[Alemar]

So ostensibly, how would De Gea be regarded while surrounded by the 99 or 08 sides ? One of the best ever undoubtedly.

One of the best ever is asking too much. Lev Yashin, for example, was both an excellent shot stopper, had a very commanding presence in the box and more or less invented sweeping for GKs (as well as being a respectable penalty stopper).

 

[Red in STL]

In his prime he basically never dropped a howler and he was a one man defence at times with his shot stopping

He was indeed a one-man defence at times but to suggest that he basically never dropped a howler in his prime is stretching it a bit

 

[Chesterlestreet]

De Gea's deficiencies (not least if we're discussing him as a historically great keeper) doesn't stop at "ball playing".

He has never been top class/world class/whatever you want to call it in any category but shot stopping.

The ball playing/sweeper aspect obviously would have mattered less, but he still wouldn't have been anywhere near a complete package.

 

[BeltUp]

But the real question on people's lips is: how good would he have been before the back-pass rule came in?

 

[Red in STL]

But the real question on people's lips is: how good would he have been before the back-pass rule came in?

He would have been a better fit but his Dracula impression on crosses would still have been a big issue

 

[Dominos]

He was indeed a one-man defence at times but to suggest that he basically never dropped a howler in his prime is stretching it a bit

Never is a stretch but he was very reliable for a 4/5 year stretch from Moyes-LVG-Mourinho.

Summer 2018 hit and his howler compilation since then is frankly comical.

 

[alexthelion]

De Gea at his best was easily better than any version of VDS at United.

Not even close.

 

[SambaBoy]

Not even close.

I disagree. I think De Gea at his best, was better than VDS.

VDS was excellent, and consistenly an 8/10 but he never really saved shots that he had no right to get to that De Gea did - sometimes multiple times in games. De Gea was a one man defence at times - and during LvG there was just games where you could see the opposition teams running out of ideas in how to beat him.

 

[MadDogg]

He would have been physically destroyed in the 90's and early 00's, at least in the English game. He is far too weak and, let's be honest, too much of a coward in physical collisions (to the extent that he has conceded multiple goals by making himself as small as possible to try to avoid a collision). During a period where players were largely allowed to physically compete and collide with the opposition keeper, he would have been constantly battered out of the game. His utter inability to come for crosses (which is probably somewhat linked to his unwillingness to put his body on the line) would also have been taken advantage of even more than it currently is.

De Gea basically came along at the perfect time. The period from the mid 00's through to the mid-to-late 10's was arguably the only time in recent history where his weaknesses wouldn't be taken advantage of too much. Any earlier and his physical weakness and inability to deal with crosses would have seen him have a huge target painted on his back. Any later and his poor distribution and unwillingness to act as a sweeper limits him significantly.

If he'd stayed in Spain he might have had more luck. They were still more physical than what they are today, but not to the extent that the English game was.

 

[Greck]

You know back then hoofing was still considered a style. In the 00s there were teams like Stoke that centered their entire "tactics" around launching balls into the box for 90 minutes non stop. In the 90s it was even worse. The ideal keepers for that era were the madmen hardnose types.