Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!

[Ragnar123]

I'm amazed you believe him. Barcelona made hidden payments to the VP of the referee committee and you think it's a media stunt? I expected better from some of the Barcelona fans in here, guess I shouldn't have.

If Laporta is lying, then it should be really easy to prove him wrong, no? If he is lying about those 600+ written and 40+ video reports, it should be easy to call him out then? If he is lying about the payments went through official tax channels, the prosecution can easily prove him wrong, no? If he is lying about other clubs buying those reports too, then Madrid and other clubs can simply come out and say they never bought referee reports, no? If not, then a lot of people have to apologize.

And I'm amazed people still don't know about spanish dirt campaigns and believe every rumour they want because they have preferences and simply like scandals about clubs they don't like. I expected better from a moderator in here, guess I shouldn't have.

 

[Akshay]

If Laporta is lying, then it should be really easy to prove him wrong, no? If he is lying about those 600+ written and 40+ video reports, it should be easy to call him out then? If he is lying about the payments went through official tax channels, the prosecution can easily prove him wrong, no? If not, then a lot of people have to apologize.

And I'm amazed people still don't know about spanish dirt campaigns and believe every rumour they want because they have preferences and simply like scandals about clubs they don't like. I expected better from a moderator in here, guess I shouldn't have.

It's not about the reports. If you make hidden payments to a person in a position of influence regarding refereeing, that itself is a very likely indicator of fraud. Whether or not the reports were made is immaterial to that. And yes, the payments were hidden, otherwise everyone would have known about this from way before, but not even all the people within FC Barcelona did.

Maybe you think your whataboutism is amusing, but I just think it's a sad reflection of the society we've become. Tribalism over truth.

 

[GatoLoco]

Enriquez Negreira himself said there were not written reports.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

If Laporta is lying, then it should be really easy to prove him wrong, no? If he is lying about those 600+ written and 40+ video reports, it should be easy to call him out then?

There is a very simple way of proving him wrong: if the reports and videos in question were fully exculpatory then there would be no investigation from the tax agency and no legal case in the first place.

If he is lying about the payments went through official tax channels, the prosecution can easily prove him wrong, no?

Who has ever denied that the payments were done through official channels? That's how we know the payments exist: from a tax investigation of the invoices.

 

[Acrobat7]

"In it’s 125 year history, Barça have been a model of fair play on and off the pitch”. Obligatory Busquets diving picture...

 

[Brophs]

If you were bribing an official like that it’s not exactly a stretch to imagine you’d want them to have some sort of work product sitting on the shelf in case anyone questioned it.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Anyone who paid attention to this case since the beginning is aware that some documentation exists. Both the club and Javier Enriquez claimed there were written reports. At least one person at the club claimed he received the reports and said so in interviews. Marca claimed the reports existed and the quality was considered 'low' among people at the club. And then, of course, we've seen a few leaked reports in the last months.

When people have pointed out that managers claimed not to have read the reports (like Valverde), or that Enriquez Negreira claimed he only offered "verbal" reports, the point was not that 'no work existed.' The point was that the payments were not really for the work.

The (circumstancial) evidence for that is fairly clear:

• The shoddy quality
• The way-above-market-value cost
• The concealed nature of the work
• The fact that few at the club seemed to have valued the work much
• The fact that the people who were paid are not known to have been hired by anyone else to provide this service after their relationship to Barcelona FC ended
• The relationship being severed after Enriquez Negreira lost his position

 

[rimaldo]

If you were bribing an official like that it’s not exactly a stretch to imagine you’d want them to have some sort of work product sitting on the shelf in case anyone questioned it.

agreed. when my girlfriend went to a different school, i kept a used condom on my shelf, to prove to people she actually existed. the eagle-eyed, or sexually active, amongst them, soon spotted it was nothing more than a child’s party balloon but what most of them didn’t know was that it was only filled with sea water.

 

[Messier1994]

Exactly the standards that could be expected by Laporta.

A few bullets:

1. Pharaprasing:
"Negreira's son made the reports."

"We got the reports because they were quality, made by a former referee."

Negreira's son isn't the former referee... There hasn't been any media, communication or legal expert involved in this PC. Its Laporta's winging it. Reminds me a lot of Trump.

2. They pay what 20x less today for these 'essential' reports than they did for Negreira's report. Hypothetically -- could Negreira's reports have been 20x better? Sure, quality of work can differ. A painting by Picasso is worth more than 20x a painting by me. But it is funny that no coach ever saw them...

3. Why was the payments made through a third party?

4. Why did Negreira blackmail Barca/Laporta after the payments ended?

5. Laporta claims that people are damaging Barca without proof. Then he moves on to accuse Real of worse stuff. (my favorite)

etc etc etc

 

[Brophs]

agreed. when my girlfriend went to a different school, i kept a used condom on my shelf, to prove to people she actually existed. the eagle-eyed, or sexually active, amongst them, soon spotted it was nothing more than a child’s party balloon but what most of them didn’t know was that it was only filled with sea water.

Chilling

 

[rimaldo]

Chilling

well it was sea water.

 

[Mb194dc]

Desperately trying to defend the brand...

If they're going to be found guilty, this approach likely to backfire pretty spectacularly.

 

[rimaldo]

Desperately trying to defend the brand...

If they're going to be found guilty, this approach likely to backfire pretty spectacularly.

no way they’re found guilty, it’ll ruin spanish football.

 

[Brophs]

well it was sea water.

Smart. Just salty enough to fool anyone who decides to call your bluff by having a cheeky little taste of what’s inside.

 

[RoyH1]

2 months to prepare a credible defense and it's basically one big "...but Real Madrid..." cry me a river litany. The kind of thing I expect from a 14 year old YouTuber, not the chairman of a multibillion sports franchise.

I'm surprised he didn't blame it on Franco to be honest

 

[justsomebloke]

Exactly the standards that could be expected by Laporta.

A few bullets:

1. Pharaprasing:
"Negreira's son made the reports."

"We got the reports because they were quality, made by a former referee."

Negreira's son isn't the former referee... There hasn't been any media, communication or legal expert involved in this PC. Its Laporta's winging it. Reminds me a lot of Trump.

2. They pay what 20x less today for these 'essential' reports than they did for Negreira's report. Hypothetically -- could Negreira's reports have been 20x better? Sure, quality of work can differ. A painting by Picasso is worth more than 20x a painting by me. But it is funny that no coach ever saw them...

3. Why was the payments made through a third party?

4. Why did Negreira blackmail Barca/Laporta after the payments ended?

5. Laporta claims that people are damaging Barca without proof. Then he moves on to accuse Real of worse stuff. (my favorite)

etc etc etc

Important to keep the focus on the essential thing here. This being that Barcelona paid money repeatedly to a high Liga officiating official. That is inherently and by definition damning, and should put the entire burden of proof on Barcelona to prove conclusively that this did not constitute an attempt to interfere with disciplinary decisions, to the extent that such proof is even theoretically possible. It is obviously unreasonable to assume that receiving money from Barcelona had no impact on how Negreira executed his function, even if there should be no hard evidence whatsoever of specific decisions influenced. Even if all they got was informed advice on how to act to avoid certain consequences, that would still in my opinion be entirely improper.

 

[FreckBarca]

Important to keep the focus on the essential thing here. This being that Barcelona paid money repeatedly to a high Liga officiating official. That is inherently and by definition damning, and should put the entire burden of proof on Barcelona to prove conclusively that this did not constitute an attempt to interfere with disciplinary decisions, to the extent that such proof is even theoretically possible. It is obviously unreasonable to assume that receiving money from Barcelona had no impact on how Negreira executed his function, even if there should be no hard evidence whatsoever of specific decisions influenced. Even if all they got was informed advice on how to act to avoid certain consequences, that would still in my opinion be entirely improper.

Negreira even declared he didn't have a salary for his work as the ref VP because he was already being paid by Barca.

 

[FreckBarca]

Tweet

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[Anustart89]

after completing the investigation into myself, i can conclude that i am the most handsome, smarterer, biggest penis man in the whole world.

You should claim compensation that is as big as your penis rimmy

 

[rimaldo]

Smart. Just salty enough to fool anyone who decides to call your bluff by having a cheeky little taste of what’s inside.

aye. and the mayonnaise i used first time round smelt rank when it went off.

 

[rimaldo]

You should claim compensation that is as big as your penis rimmy

my concern would be that there isn’t enough liquid currency in the world to cover that cost.

 

[Brophs]

aye. and the mayonnaise i used first time round smelt rank when it went off.

The eggs were probably foreign.

 

[rimaldo]

The eggs were probably foreign.

at least they contained whites.

 

[SirReginald]

Not surprisingly, Laporta has continued the Donald Trump defense.

Denial - Screams bloody murder, plays the victim

Conspiracy - The other big party (Madrid) has benefitted and they continue to suffer. Repeats old and unfounded claims.

Rally - Gee up his cult followers to fight.

We still don’t have any proof they’re innocent and he looks more and more like a deluded arsehole every time he speaks.

 

[Lemoor]

There is a very simple way of proving him wrong: if the reports and videos in question were fully exculpatory then there would be no investigation from the tax agency and no legal case in the first place.

Who has ever denied that the payments were done through official channels? That's how we know the payments exist: from a tax investigation of the invoices.

He's been told of both those points multiple times. He'll probably just ignore them again and make the same exact point in few weeks, while complaining that there is no legitimate discussion here.

 

[Acheron]

Here are some of his quotes:


If everything is true, then it looks like barca will be acquitted for the third time after Rosell and Neymar. Another political ego campaign from Madrid fails and then I really hope all of Tebas' and Madrid's media will have to pay a huge sum in the end

I can't believe you're being serious.

He's being a clown and said nothing of worth that absolves them.

 

[Messier1994]

Important to keep the focus on the essential thing here. This being that Barcelona paid money repeatedly to a high Liga officiating official. That is inherently and by definition damning, and should put the entire burden of proof on Barcelona to prove conclusively that this did not constitute an attempt to interfere with disciplinary decisions, to the extent that such proof is even theoretically possible. It is obviously unreasonable to assume that receiving money from Barcelona had no impact on how Negreira executed his function, even if there should be no hard evidence whatsoever of specific decisions influenced. Even if all they got was informed advice on how to act to avoid certain consequences, that would still in my opinion be entirely improper.

You are of course right.

I can guarantee that there are so many anti-corruption educators out there that are pulling their hair. And I mean, it’s not only improper — objectively it is undoubtedly criminal anywhere

Why is it criminal? If you pay a lot of money to someone who has an official role to be unbiased, anyone can understand that there is a risk for that the person won’t be unbiased.

Corruption is one of the biggest treat to an economy. If corruption becomes wide spread, it has a massively negative effect.

From a criminal point of view, corruption cannot be treated as say murder. You must never prove that someone was bribed and it impacted their behavior. Imagine how hard it would be to prevent corruption if it wasn’t enough for a prosecutor to show that say a big company paid large sums to a government official with power to impact decisions regarding the company. Could they get away with commissioning some kind of report from the official? Of course not.

 

[carvajal]

Madrid responds to Laporta, about what he said in his interview today.
Among what the video says:

"The Camp Nou was inaugurated by one of Franco's ministers", "Barcelona gave the gold and diamonds badge to Franco", "named him honorary member in 1965", "decorated him on three occasions" ,"Barcelona was saved from bankruptcy three times, by three requalifications", "Barcelona won 8 leagues and 9 Spanish Cups with Franco".
"Madrid took 15 years to win the league under Franco", "Madrid was dismantled after the end of the civil war, players murdered and exiled", "The headquarters bombed, the trophies stolen and the stands destroyed to get wood"

Tweet

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[justsomebloke]

You are of course right.

I can guarantee that there are so many anti-corruption educators out there that are pulling their hair. And I mean, it’s not only improper — objectively it is undoubtedly criminal anywhere

Why is it criminal? If you pay a lot of money to someone who has an official role to be unbiased, anyone can understand that there is a risk for that the person won’t be unbiased.

Corruption is one of the biggest treat to an economy. If corruption becomes wide spread, it has a massively negative effect.

From a criminal point of view, corruption cannot be treated as say murder. You must never prove that someone was bribed and it impacted their behavior. Imagine how hard it would be to prevent corruption if it wasn’t enough for a prosecutor to show that say a big company paid large sums to a government official with power to impact decisions regarding the company. Could they get away with commissioning some kind of report from the official? Of course not.

Absolutely spot on.

 

[FreckBarca]

Madrid responds to Laporta, about what he said in his interview today.
Among what the video says:

"The Camp Nou was inaugurated by one of Franco's ministers", "Barcelona gave the gold and diamonds badge to Franco", "named him honorary member in 1965", "decorated him on three occasions" ,"Barcelona was saved from bankruptcy three times, by three requalifications", "Barcelona won 8 leagues and 9 Spanish Cups with Franco".
"Madrid took 15 years to win the league under Franco", "Madrid was dismantled after the end of the civil war, players murdered and exiled", "The headquarters bombed, the trophies stolen and the stands destroyed to get wood"

Tweet

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There are soo many lies and misconceptions around Barca's image, that video covers some of it. 11M views so far. Not bad.

Anyway, Laporta provided a horrible explanation during his PC today but somehow this Franco debate will attract all the attention in the following days instead of the Negreira scandal.

 

[JPRouve]

Madrid responds to Laporta, about what he said in his interview today.
Among what the video says:

"The Camp Nou was inaugurated by one of Franco's ministers", "Barcelona gave the gold and diamonds badge to Franco", "named him honorary member in 1965", "decorated him on three occasions" ,"Barcelona was saved from bankruptcy three times, by three requalifications", "Barcelona won 8 leagues and 9 Spanish Cups with Franco".
"Madrid took 15 years to win the league under Franco", "Madrid was dismantled after the end of the civil war, players murdered and exiled", "The headquarters bombed, the trophies stolen and the stands destroyed to get wood"

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

It's well done, they even have photos.

 

[Krakenzero]

"I know reports. I have the best reports"

Did he answer something concerning why did the payments stop? Maybe they don't need the reports anymore as the league isn't as fierce now.

 

[GatoLoco]

I would like to remind this question to Negreira from the tax inspectors:

- Did the services you billed FC Barcelona include reports prepared by your son?
- No.

Laporta has made a very bad exercise in subterfuge today.

 

[Slevs]

Didn't know what you guys were expecting really. He's gonna be a personification of the uber-Barca fans out there that think their club is holier than thou and is doing the Lord's work.
Anyone who expected a sensible press conference from a club chairman was out of their mind.

 

[roonster09]

Madrid responds to Laporta, about what he said in his interview today.
Among what the video says:

"The Camp Nou was inaugurated by one of Franco's ministers", "Barcelona gave the gold and diamonds badge to Franco", "named him honorary member in 1965", "decorated him on three occasions" ,"Barcelona was saved from bankruptcy three times, by three requalifications", "Barcelona won 8 leagues and 9 Spanish Cups with Franco".
"Madrid took 15 years to win the league under Franco", "Madrid was dismantled after the end of the civil war, players murdered and exiled", "The headquarters bombed, the trophies stolen and the stands destroyed to get wood"

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Shame they didn't tweet it with english subtitles.

Nice that they included historical videos.

 

[Ragnar123]

Madrid responds to Laporta, about what he said in his interview today.
Among what the video says:

"The Camp Nou was inaugurated by one of Franco's ministers", "Barcelona gave the gold and diamonds badge to Franco", "named him honorary member in 1965", "decorated him on three occasions" ,"Barcelona was saved from bankruptcy three times, by three requalifications", "Barcelona won 8 leagues and 9 Spanish Cups with Franco".
"Madrid took 15 years to win the league under Franco", "Madrid was dismantled after the end of the civil war, players murdered and exiled", "The headquarters bombed, the trophies stolen and the stands destroyed to get wood"

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Yes, Laporta shouldn't have mentioned Real Madrid in his defense. But this response is beyond disgusting. To trivialize a murderous and fascist regime by saying they helped Barca and providing out of context examples makes my stomach turn. While they're at it, why don't they release another video how Putin helped Ukrainians, Xi Uyghurs and Hitler helped Jews.
But this answer also shows, why dirt campaigns in spain are so common. At least, the superficial friendship because of the SL should be definitely over now.

 

[RoyH1]

There are soo many lies and misconceptions around Barca's image, that video covers some of it. 11M views so far. Not bad.

Anyway, Laporta provided a horrible explanation during his PC today but somehow this Franco debate will attract all the attention in the following days instead of the Negreira scandal.

56 million views. Crazy numbers for a video just meant for the Spanish market.

Didn't know what you guys were expecting really. He's gonna be a personification of the uber-Barca fans out there that think their club is holier than thou and is doing the Lord's work.
Anyone who expected a sensible press conference from a club chairman was out of their mind.

I think it actually achieved what he wanted it to. By blowing up the RM/Franco/Barsa thing he basically ignited the civil war online and by doing so took the spotlight away from the everyday drip of the Barsa payments to Negreira investigation. The press and twitterati are only going to talk about the former now and digging into which member of which board fought in which army and how many pictures of them with a flag there are. Anything better than having the world press hearing about payments to encourage a culture of refereeing against one team.

 

[carvajal]

Yes, Laporta shouldn't have mentioned Real Madrid in his defense. But this response is beyond disgusting. To trivialize a murderous and fascist regime by saying they helped Barca and providing out of context examples makes my stomach turn. While they're at it, why don't they release another video how Putin helped Ukrainians, Xi Uyghurs and Hitler helped Jews.
But this answer also shows, why dirt campaigns in spain are so common. At least, the superficial friendship because of the SL should be definitely over now.

I did not expect such a strong reaction, but obviously they will have to defend themselves.
It is Laporta who trivialises by saying that all this is an attack on Catalan nationality and naming Franco while still not explaining things properly.
The mass at Camp Nou and the badges may be out of context. Obligations to the regime but the three requalifications are not.
It was rumoured that he was going to resign from the Super League (I'm glad he didn't) but can he afford to? Or does that lead them to limited company and Goldman Sachs?

 

[Spaghetti]

If Laporta is lying, then it should be really easy to prove him wrong, no? If he is lying about those 600+ written and 40+ video reports, it should be easy to call him out then? If he is lying about the payments went through official tax channels, the prosecution can easily prove him wrong, no? If he is lying about other clubs buying those reports too, then Madrid and other clubs can simply come out and say they never bought referee reports, no? If not, then a lot of people have to apologize.

And I'm amazed people still don't know about spanish dirt campaigns and believe every rumour they want because they have preferences and simply like scandals about clubs they don't like. I expected better from a moderator in here, guess I shouldn't have.

“But, but, Madrid did it too!” is the most typical Barça excuse.

Barça get a dodgy penalty. “Madrid get loads of dodgy penalties!”

Red card against Barça. “Remember the red card for Celta Vigo against Madrid in 2016?!”

Barça pay referees. “But, Madrid! Madrid!”

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

I can guarantee that there are so many anti-corruption educators out there that are pulling their hair. And I mean, it’s not only improper — objectively it is undoubtedly criminal anywhere

Why is it criminal? If you pay a lot of money to someone who has an official role to be unbiased, anyone can understand that there is a risk for that the person won’t be unbiased.

We actually know from Negreira's son's testimony that the club was aware of this. The tax agency's summary of his testimony said:

"Contreras (former Barca guy) told him that the work he'd do for Barcelona would be billed by his company, Tresep, and he would bill Barcelona. Then when Barcelona paid him, he would pay Javier Enriquez. The reason was to keep appearances and avoid misunderstandings that might occur due to the son of the vice-president of the referee committee working for Barcelona."

That's just the son!