So will we get a couple champions leagues or?
Official: FC Barcelona charged with Corruption over payments to former referees chief | UEFA open investigation
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That’s how the Barcelona ******* think.
It's too hard to keep up with this, just when you think you understand what's happening someone else steps out of the closet and throws some more shit into the mix.
It is because of the inferior olive oil, the root of all their problems
Ferguson, in 2008: "Madrid, as Franco's club, got what they wanted".
"The really obscene thing about all this is that Madrid, as General Franco's club, has a history, before democracy came to Spain, of getting who it wants and doing what it wants," said the Scot in 2008, in statements to The Times collected by El País.
I suppose Ferguson was also an uninformed person and lived in an echo chamber as a few people have said here.
Let's see what those who commented above think. I guess they wouldn't dare say that about Ferguson.
"The really obscene thing about all this is that Madrid, as General Franco's club, has a history, before democracy came to Spain, of getting who it wants and doing what it wants," said the Scot in 2008, in statements to The Times collected by El País.
I suppose Ferguson was also an uninformed person and lived in an echo chamber as a few people have said here.
Let's see what those who commented above think. I guess they wouldn't dare say that about Ferguson.
Are you saying Ferguson was a ******* too?
It’s Sir to you son
Whataboutism. Why don‘t you explain why Barça paid 8.4 million to a referee committee head.
NLunited already changing the subject to not answer.
But he was a person without criteria? He lies like Laporta?
Does the Real Madrid video make SAF a liar?
No. No. No.
I'm glad to help.
Niemans, the subject of this thread is:Niemans said:
FC Barcelona charged with Corruption over payments to former referees chief
Ooh, yes. You got them there. How will they ever come back from this?
Look, if you're an actual human being (not a bot), and you're in earnest (not a wum): you need to wake the feck up. Snap out of it. Stop reading insane crap on social media. And so forth.
Talk to someone who isn't a stupid gobshite, listen to them, consider that what they say might be right.
You will undoubtedly consider this advice either stupid or just an attempt at ridiculing you - but maybe you will remember it nevertheless, and maybe it will even do you some good down the line, who knows?
Anyway, my job is done - I wish you all the best.
Is there any link from Times for what SAF said? I mean I wouldn't open anything that's reported by Spanish media or Barca media, it's more dangerous than virus infected sites.
Don't waste your time.
He is either a paid bot or a troll or *******. Pointless
SAF has said some mad nonsense on a few occasion and United fans tend to laugh about it. Phil Jones being the new Duncan Edwards or "He could have killed him!".
Duh, if they paid Negreira after he quit the CTA they couldn’t fool the board that the money was a bribe and perfectly legit, but wait, I take that back…
fergie doesn’t like the tories and probably voted remain. just shows how wrong you can be whilst being a fair-to-middling manager.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sir-alex-ferguson-real-have-no-morals-cmrnq2lppvr
So the context is about the Ronaldo transfer saga. This word war ended up with SAF at latter time said the infamous "not selling a virus to Real Madrid".
What SAF said had no historical factual meaning. It's just an outburst of his personal opinion. Nothing detract on Barcelona being charged with payment to former referee vice chief.
SAF had issue with Real Madrid former president Calderon. However, the relationship with F.Perez is much better. He did sell Ronaldo to Real Madrid after all the following year once F.Perez won the election and came offer the world record fee (Ronaldo renewed the contract after the failed transfer the previous year).
Thank you.
@Niemans two wrongs don't make a right, but Sir Alex Ferguson's claims that Real Madrid were getting favours from UEFA is probably true - Blatter even admitted that they were fixing draws in the champions league (although he never actually said to whom the draws were favouring) https://www.skysports.com/football/...opean-draws-fixed-by-using-hot-and-cold-balls
Unfortunately for all of us we need proof. In Barcelona's case there's damning evidence it's been done, but I have to admit I secretly wonder if there really was some sort of genuine (if misguided) attempt to prevent some sort of systemic Spain Vs Catalonia bias.
Unfortunately for all of us we need proof. In Barcelona's case there's damning evidence it's been done, but I have to admit I secretly wonder if there really was some sort of genuine (if misguided) attempt to prevent some sort of systemic Spain Vs Catalonia bias.
That is pretty much what Enriquez Negreira said to the tax agency.GazTheLegend said:
Enriquez Negreira said:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndic...t-real-madrid-over-cristiano-ronaldo.amp.html
Marca.
https://www.marca.com/2013/05/08/futbol/futbol_internacional/premier_league/1368012212.html
El País
https://www.google.com/amp/s/elpais...ualidad/1225182115_850215.html?outputType=amp
20Minutos
https://www.20minutos.es/deportes/noticia/ferguson-madrid-franco-423651/0/
Ferguson says the same thing I did or Laporta said yesterday.
Is SAF a ******* or a troll? Or maybe it's the truth and you don't want to acknowledge it because of your hatred of Barcelona?
You need more bold. They still don’t get it.
Just charged those corrupted feckers and forced them to pay a $5000 fines.
This will teach them.
This will teach them.
The thesis gaining ground this evening is that Fergie had a bit of a temper and would say any old shite to get under someone's skin.
I'm just asking for your opinion. SAF is also a liar like Laporta?
And another question. Who is right about SAF or the Real Madrid video?
Does he read your posts?
God, I sure am having fun today
I'm going to post my comment of the other thread with almost indistiguible title (mods should make more clear what contents are supposed for each one of them to keep it more civilized, if that is even possible):
---------------
This thread is VERY SAD... I don't even have words to explain what I feel when I see this. This is, anyway, a fair portrait of the state of the country itself... it is just pathetic. Franco died 50 years ago, we are close to a century from the Civil War...
Laporta should have never talked about the "regime" because it has nothing to do with Negreira, it is pathetic. It is just not relevant. The Real Madrid video is stupid and a shame. Real Madrid TV by the way has been nauseating for the last few months.
I think this debate is very unfair for Barcelona and Real Madrid and this doesn't help at all, anyone, for any reason. This just inflates even more the hate and light on the fanatics.
I will give you my vision (which, by the way, it is more or less the "consensus" among historians)...
In summary, neither Barca or Real were "the team of the regime", the regime used them, in different ways, with different objectives.
I will start with Real...
Madrid was a Republican city (and it fought like that), Santiago Bernabeu was not. Bernabeu fled Madrid, joined the Franco army, fought in Catalonia and got condecorated by the Franco army. He wasn't himself a "francoist", but he was a right wing man who chose his side in the war. He became president of Real as an "ok" from the club itself and the power (specially military). Bernabeu had a better relationship with the military than politicians (even if they were former military too). He was a strong man and he didn't like to be told, so he usually had his in and outs with authority power, but he still was a right wing conservative, so it wasn't a real issue for Franco. He could do what he pleased while he kept minimum respect. Real Madrid was destroyed after the war because Madrid itself was destroyed. That is the main reason Madrid didn't have a lot of success right after the war. You could see a lot of military in the stadium but not a lot of money at that point. He started to rebuild.
By 50s, Bernabeu was doing a good job and the regime started to see it like a good thing, a good propaganda machine. When Madrid started winning it was crystal clear. They were the perfect ambassassor of the regime. They were from Madrid (more on that later), they were 100% spanish, no doubt, the president, even if he wasn't super proFranco, shared the same ideology and they even wore pure white (not in terms of race, but more like christian priests). Meanwhile, Madrid never had an issue being used, as it was good for them too. One of the ways the government helped them, was using the diplomats to create reports of rival teams in Europe so Madrid knew better about their players, style of play, etc. Government main help was PR. Madrid became the most followed team of Spain by their own merits and the help of the government. Can you blame Bernabeu on that? I don't think so. Does it mean they were "the team of the regime"? I don't think so. Does it mean that they didn't profit from the propaganda the government created around them? I don't think so.
The Real Madrid video put a phrase from Bernabeu (when Franco was already dead), but Saporta (who gave name to the basketball stadium, very close friend to Bernabeu and who took the power for transition after his death told:
Real Madrid is and has been political. It has always been so powerful for being at the service of the backbone of the State. When it was founded in 1902 it respected Alfonso XIII, in 1931 the Republic, in 1939 the Generalissimo, and now it respects His Majesty Juan Carlos. Because it is a disciplined Club and it is loyal to the institution that leads the nation. institution that leads the nation.
To me, Real Madrid is not "the team of the regime" in the sense of the "favourite" (it was, for propaganda reasons), but Madrid has controlled for the most part of the history all the football bodies. From the referees themselves (80-90% of time until the 90s) and the football justice system (they had a majority of members until 2018 in the Competition Committee who decide sanctions and they are the only team with members in that deciding committee right now).
Barca...
The interest in Barca was totally different. Sunyol was killed by the Franco army while he was Barca president. He had announced he was going to leave because of political reasons, as he was joining ERC (Republican Leftist of Catalonia). He wasn't killed for being Barca president, he just happened to be.
From now on, Franco was very interested in having Barcelona under control, because Catalonia represented (obvious) different issues to the Regime and the team already was a very followed institution in Catalonia (not like Espanyol, for example). Franco tried to basically kidnap FC Barcelona for the most time of his rule. Many of the presidents weren't even members of Barcelona, they were men of the regime.
"Then... Barcelona was the team of the regime!"... well... no... the intention was not making Barca win, just deprive the catalanist views and show kind of "how spaniard Barca are, how unite we are with Franco". Barca had some success right after the war because they were already a good team and the war wasn't that devastating for them, in comparison. However, the team was worse and worse because the board was more or less intervined the whole time, and it wasn't easy to focus just in the sport. In the meantime, the presidents who were closer to the regime had more actions like the mentioned in the video or help in specific moments.
So... was Barca the team of the regime? no... it was just another victim that the regime wanted to use for its own benefit.
Barca and Real were both instruments of Franco for his benefit. Period.
---------------
This thread is VERY SAD... I don't even have words to explain what I feel when I see this. This is, anyway, a fair portrait of the state of the country itself... it is just pathetic. Franco died 50 years ago, we are close to a century from the Civil War...
Laporta should have never talked about the "regime" because it has nothing to do with Negreira, it is pathetic. It is just not relevant. The Real Madrid video is stupid and a shame. Real Madrid TV by the way has been nauseating for the last few months.
I think this debate is very unfair for Barcelona and Real Madrid and this doesn't help at all, anyone, for any reason. This just inflates even more the hate and light on the fanatics.
I will give you my vision (which, by the way, it is more or less the "consensus" among historians)...
In summary, neither Barca or Real were "the team of the regime", the regime used them, in different ways, with different objectives.
I will start with Real...
Madrid was a Republican city (and it fought like that), Santiago Bernabeu was not. Bernabeu fled Madrid, joined the Franco army, fought in Catalonia and got condecorated by the Franco army. He wasn't himself a "francoist", but he was a right wing man who chose his side in the war. He became president of Real as an "ok" from the club itself and the power (specially military). Bernabeu had a better relationship with the military than politicians (even if they were former military too). He was a strong man and he didn't like to be told, so he usually had his in and outs with authority power, but he still was a right wing conservative, so it wasn't a real issue for Franco. He could do what he pleased while he kept minimum respect. Real Madrid was destroyed after the war because Madrid itself was destroyed. That is the main reason Madrid didn't have a lot of success right after the war. You could see a lot of military in the stadium but not a lot of money at that point. He started to rebuild.
By 50s, Bernabeu was doing a good job and the regime started to see it like a good thing, a good propaganda machine. When Madrid started winning it was crystal clear. They were the perfect ambassassor of the regime. They were from Madrid (more on that later), they were 100% spanish, no doubt, the president, even if he wasn't super proFranco, shared the same ideology and they even wore pure white (not in terms of race, but more like christian priests). Meanwhile, Madrid never had an issue being used, as it was good for them too. One of the ways the government helped them, was using the diplomats to create reports of rival teams in Europe so Madrid knew better about their players, style of play, etc. Government main help was PR. Madrid became the most followed team of Spain by their own merits and the help of the government. Can you blame Bernabeu on that? I don't think so. Does it mean they were "the team of the regime"? I don't think so. Does it mean that they didn't profit from the propaganda the government created around them? I don't think so.
The Real Madrid video put a phrase from Bernabeu (when Franco was already dead), but Saporta (who gave name to the basketball stadium, very close friend to Bernabeu and who took the power for transition after his death told:
Real Madrid is and has been political. It has always been so powerful for being at the service of the backbone of the State. When it was founded in 1902 it respected Alfonso XIII, in 1931 the Republic, in 1939 the Generalissimo, and now it respects His Majesty Juan Carlos. Because it is a disciplined Club and it is loyal to the institution that leads the nation. institution that leads the nation.
To me, Real Madrid is not "the team of the regime" in the sense of the "favourite" (it was, for propaganda reasons), but Madrid has controlled for the most part of the history all the football bodies. From the referees themselves (80-90% of time until the 90s) and the football justice system (they had a majority of members until 2018 in the Competition Committee who decide sanctions and they are the only team with members in that deciding committee right now).
Barca...
The interest in Barca was totally different. Sunyol was killed by the Franco army while he was Barca president. He had announced he was going to leave because of political reasons, as he was joining ERC (Republican Leftist of Catalonia). He wasn't killed for being Barca president, he just happened to be.
From now on, Franco was very interested in having Barcelona under control, because Catalonia represented (obvious) different issues to the Regime and the team already was a very followed institution in Catalonia (not like Espanyol, for example). Franco tried to basically kidnap FC Barcelona for the most time of his rule. Many of the presidents weren't even members of Barcelona, they were men of the regime.
"Then... Barcelona was the team of the regime!"... well... no... the intention was not making Barca win, just deprive the catalanist views and show kind of "how spaniard Barca are, how unite we are with Franco". Barca had some success right after the war because they were already a good team and the war wasn't that devastating for them, in comparison. However, the team was worse and worse because the board was more or less intervined the whole time, and it wasn't easy to focus just in the sport. In the meantime, the presidents who were closer to the regime had more actions like the mentioned in the video or help in specific moments.
So... was Barca the team of the regime? no... it was just another victim that the regime wanted to use for its own benefit.
Barca and Real were both instruments of Franco for his benefit. Period.
You are acting like a child throughout.
But to answer your question about SAF, he had a lot of reasons, agendas, a big ego, etc. Half of the stuff he said was very far from the truth. Just an example “Rooney has a virus/infection so can’t play” translation: “Rooney was out partying/drinking” or “we played well” translation “we didn’t play well but that’s something between me and my players and none of your business”. So you can call this a lie, I do call it protecting his players.
Same way his ego was too big to openly admit after he retired that players such as Rooney, Becks or Keane were world class, but he had no issues calling Giggs and Scholes world class (translation: “they were loyal to me/the club until the very end whereas Becks/Rooney/Keane fell out with me at some stage/had their own ego”).
United fans know not everything SAF says is true.
Unlike Barca fans who believe everything their Laporta and other Barca people tell them.
Thanks!
Sorry for the generalization but you can easily see how corrupted Italian and spanish teams are. I fully believe that Real are much worse than Barcelona. Do you actually believe Real has done nothing and only Barcelona has been doing this shaddy stuff. I hope a day comes and some evidence emerges but even then as you can see with Barcelona it will be denied and they will tell us stories and nothing will happen because spain is not a serious country in this regard and they are both too big to be brought down
You say that SAF, a contemporary person at the time of Franco, had an agenda and that is why what he said is not true. And Franco had no agenda, right?
Let's see your opinion. What do you think of Ferguson's statements?Does he read your posts?
God, I sure am having fun today
Lets be clear. Some half truths have been thrown today:
--Barca's former president was killed during the Civil War, he was not Barca president at the time. Josep Sunyol had resigned before being killed during the civil war.
Obviously he was killed for his leftwing idiology (which is terribly sad) not for being the former president of a football club, which some Barca accounts (specially on twitter) like to imply. Barca was a small and unimportant organization in 1936.
--Madrid fans also like to say that their president was killed during the Civil War. Similarly, Antonio Ortega was (sadly) killed because of his leftwing idiology, not because he was president of a football club. Real was also a small and unimportant organization in 1936. Although Antonio Ortega was in fact an active Real president at the time he was only an interim president.
--Barca's former president was killed during the Civil War, he was not Barca president at the time. Josep Sunyol had resigned before being killed during the civil war.
Obviously he was killed for his leftwing idiology (which is terribly sad) not for being the former president of a football club, which some Barca accounts (specially on twitter) like to imply. Barca was a small and unimportant organization in 1936.
--Madrid fans also like to say that their president was killed during the Civil War. Similarly, Antonio Ortega was (sadly) killed because of his leftwing idiology, not because he was president of a football club. Real was also a small and unimportant organization in 1936. Although Antonio Ortega was in fact an active Real president at the time he was only an interim president.
This is true. Atlético Aviación, now called Atlético de Madrid, would be the closest to team of the regimen, but it's really a crazy concept to me.
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I don’t know or care about Franco’s agenda.
But SAF was saying this to look good and make Madrid look bad in the Ronaldo saga because he didn’t want to lose him yet.
It was definitely not out of principle or moral or a desire to tell the truth as otherwise he could have put out his opinion about it ages ago and not when they were trying to buy his best player.
Your meltdown is absolutely fascinating.
Well, that couldn't be more wrong.
In minimum informed people (Spanish forums with spanish people) is mostly the opposite. The team and the board (this one and former ones) are mostly viciously attacked. You can even differentiate in the seriousness of the comments. People who speaks seriously is far, far, far, far, EXTREMELY FAR from your simplistic view. Of course there are Laporta hard core defendants (I can even defend SOME of the things he did), but that picture is again VERY far from reality.
I honestly don't give a s*** about forums not based in Spain or in Spanish because 99% of the posters don't have the knowledge to access any information or interest on it. So 99% of the comments are worthless (at least in this kind of debate). I joined this forum because in general, that issue is solved (probably the only one with decent mods). This forum is pretty civilized in general, I cannot say the same about some threads like this one. Anyway, it is still way better than anything you can find, where literally 99.9% are just insults. Here it is still much better.
No, I'm not clicking on any of those links, sorry.