Official: FC Barcelona charged with Corruption over payments to former referees chief | UEFA open investigation

[carvajal]

I don't like it myself. Not that I can say it in public if I want to keep my Spanish citizenship

I know it may sound weird to non-Spaniards but a full serrano ham leg is considered a traditional (may be old-fashioned) high quality gift in Spain. You can usually find them in the fancy Christmas baskets for example.

Heretic! I would sell myself to Laporta for a Guijuelo or a Jabugo
In addition to the gifts, more names are now beginning to appear. In the report of the Copa del Rey final against Alavés:
"Clos Gómez will try to look good for the club (...) and measure well the most important decisions for the result".
I see you are very up to date but just in case you hadn't added it to the "summary".
First Hernández Hernández who supposedly didn't want to participate in the investigation and now Clos.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I haven't followed this very closely.

But Barca don't deny that the payments were made - they just claim the payments were legit?

They paid this guy to do basic analysis for them. And paid him extremely well for it. Over a period of many years. During which he was a high-ranking member of the refereeing committee. And when he left the committee, the arrangement came to an end.

That about it?

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Paying a high-ranking member of the refereeing committee to do basic analysis is...what you do, isn't it? I mean, if you're mes que un club, you surely don't settle for anything less.

 

[FreckBarca]

Heretic! I would sell myself to Laporta for a Guijuelo or a Jabugo

I had a good laugh. That might the most Spanish sentence ever written in RedCafe. I was so weird reading it in English.

In addition to the gifts, more names are now beginning to appear. In the report of the Copa del Rey final against Alavés:
"Clos Gómez will try to look good for the club (...) and measure well the most important decisions for the result".
I see you are very up to date but just in case you hadn't added it to the "summary".
First Hernández Hernández who supposedly didn't want to participate in the investigation and now Clos.

Funnily we were just talking about him:

The important part is in the second tweet: The ref of that game was Clos Gómez. He is currently the Head of the VAR project in Spain.

Another example of how the refs that made mistakes that were beneficial for Barca got promoted.

This one was quite beneficial as Barca won that league by only one point. This was the 35th game of a 38 game season.

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In this video you can see other parts of the refereering, for example how Barca's first goal would normally be a foul to the keeper or how the Barca's second goal was offside.

 

[Dansk]

I haven't followed this very closely.

But Barca don't deny that the payments were made - they just claim the payments were legit?

They paid this guy to do basic analysis for them. And paid him extremely well for it. Over a period of many years. During which he was a high-ranking member of the refereeing committee. And when he left the committee, the arrangement came to an end.

That about it?

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Paying a high-ranking member of the refereeing committee to do basic analysis is...what you do, isn't it? I mean, if you're mes que un club, you surely don't settle for anything less.

You forgot the part where throughout that period, Barcelona's balance of refereeing decisions was so unbelievably beneficial that seeing visual representations of it (there are some earlier on the thread) is downright cartoonish, and far exceeds what any amount of "but they played tiki-taka with 75% possession!" can ever explain. Or that their two rivals, Real Madrid and Espanyol, happen to be the two teams at the opposite end of the spectrum with the very worst balance.

I mean, you generally expect strong, attack-oriented teams to get more penalties and opposition red cards than average, but Barcelona's balance is so far out of proportion that it's comical, and anyone who chalks that up to their style of football is out of their mind. There's something like ten red cards to their opponents for each one to them. No team in the history of the sport has ever come even slightly close to such a record. It's completely unrealistic.

I tried to look it up at the time, and though it was kind of hard to find concise accountings of it, the normal situation across Europe was for the most dominant team in the league to get 30-50% more pens/reds to their advantage than the teams in the same leagues with the very worst records. Barcelona's is like... many, many, many times more favorable than that. They could have played with 100% possession for entire seasons and it would still be extremely suspicious to have come out ahead in the balance to such a degree.

For the period that this case pertains to, they're at a balance +77 red cards. Their opponents have had seventy-seven more red cards than they have. Consider that the norm is for any given team to have somewhere between 0 and 5 red cards for and against them throughout a season. I mean, who can even see that +77 tally and ever believe there's nothing fishy? For reference, Real Madrid are at -12 for the same period. Even if you subtract all of Pepe's and Ramos' reds, they'd be around +10. Could anyone possibly claim that Barcelona have been 800% more attack-oriented than Real Madrid? It would be a declaration of idiocy.


Anyone who can look at that and think the refs haven't been bending over backwards to help Barcelona is patently insane. It was also obvious when watching their actual games, but even if you don't, the statistics themselves are impossible to dismiss. While it doesn't directly prove that this is what Barcelona paid for, one would have to be very naïve to claim that it isn't suspicious. What are the chances that they've been secretly paying the refs, and getting incredibly favorable treatment from them, but there's no connection at all between the two? I mean, come on.

 

[Lemoor]

I haven't followed this very closely.

But Barca don't deny that the payments were made - they just claim the payments were legit?

They paid this guy to do basic analysis for them. And paid him extremely well for it. Over a period of many years. During which he was a high-ranking member of the refereeing committee. And when he left the committee, the arrangement came to an end.

That about it?

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Paying a high-ranking member of the refereeing committee to do basic analysis is...what you do, isn't it? I mean, if you're mes que un club, you surely don't settle for anything less.

It's even better than that:
Payments were done through intermediaries. There were no written contracts what those payments were for at the time they were made. Nobody outside of executive management seems to even know that those reports ever existed. Obviously everything is clean.

 

[criticalanalysis]

I don't like it myself. Not that I can say it in public if I want to keep my Spanish citizenship

I know it may sound weird to non-Spaniards but a full serrano ham leg is considered a traditional (may be old-fashioned) high quality gift in Spain. You can usually find them in the fancy Christmas baskets for example.

Honestly, this is probably one of the most shocking things I have read on this thread.

 

[Kush]

In accordance with Article 31(4) of the UEFA Disciplinary Regulations, UEFA Ethics and Disciplinary Inspectors have today been appointed to conduct an investigation regarding a potential violation of UEFA’s legal framework by FC Barcelona in connection with the so-called ‘Caso Negreira’.

Further information regarding this matter will be made available in due course.

https://disciplinary.uefa.com/027f-179a034fab97-d943763bdcba-1000/

Perez & Co. paying off UEFA to slander and defame Barca too?

 

[Shinjch]

https://disciplinary.uefa.com/027f-179a034fab97-d943763bdcba-1000/

Perez & Co. paying off UEFA to slander and defame Barca too?

Can't be true at all, it was only yesterday the Barca lot were telling us they were on the verge of an acquittal after the documents were uncovered?

Surely they couldn't be completely and totally wrong?

 

[NLunited]

Can't be true at all, it was only yesterday the Barca lot were telling us they were on the verge of an acquittal after the documents were uncovered?

Surely they couldn't be completely and totally wrong?

You mean they were totally bullshiitting? Of course not, that would be outrageous.

It‘s not like they do that all the time, or hire trolls/journalists to do their bidding. Nope.

 

[JPRouve]

The UEFA is about to get hit with 72 lawsuits and 35 apologies requests.

 

[Strelok]

https://disciplinary.uefa.com/027f-179a034fab97-d943763bdcba-1000/

Perez & Co. paying off UEFA to slander and defame Barca too?

It's so fecking obvious they've been buying the refs in the CL too. Hope they got charged and stripped off all their titles. We might have another two CL redcafe will go nuts

 

[Pexbo]

It's so fecking obvious they've been buying the refs in the CL too. Hope they got charged and stripped off all their titles. We might have another two CL redcafe will go nuts

It would be hilarious if we end up just one CL behind Liverpool

 

[Acheron]

I haven't followed this very closely.

But Barca don't deny that the payments were made - they just claim the payments were legit?

I'm also not very sure of the latest development but officially they haven't said shit, other than saying it's a campaign against them. They have been very vague and haven't said anything of substance to try explain/justify the shady payments.

 

[GatoLoco]

Too much of a punishment if you ask me

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[sglowrider]

 

[Messier1994]

There seem to be some confusion as to how those grading reports of refs from Barca's games should be interpreted. Would it make sense for FCB to -- seen isolated -- engage someone to review the ref in each game they play, and show how much they benefited from the referee's work? To me it quite obviously seem to be some sort of 'proof of works'. Look, of 5 blown calls in a game, 4 went in favor of you and 1 against -- we are doing a good job.

 

[SirReginald]

There seem to be some confusion as to how those grading reports of refs from Barca's games should be interpreted. Would it make sense for FCB to -- seen isolated -- engage someone to review the ref in each game they play, and show how much they benefited from the referee's work? To me it quite obviously seem to be some sort of 'proof of works'. Look, of 5 blown calls in a game, 4 went in favor of you and 1 against -- we are doing a good job.

I’m pretty sure most clubs will have some kind of review into the officiating of games. Every other detail is analyzed. It would be naive to think they wouldn’t. The issue relating to this specific case is that he was Vice President and had the potential to substantially influence games. This is a massive ethics violation in any place of work. I don’t know the legalities of it, if there is any, I don’t care to look either. Now UEFAs ethics committee is reviewing this case so at the very least there should be a punishment. I’m hoping Laporta is banned from football, it needs to happen, he is a slimey cnut.

 

[17Larsson]

You forgot the part where throughout that period, Barcelona's balance of refereeing decisions was so unbelievably beneficial that seeing visual representations of it (there are some earlier on the thread) is downright cartoonish, and far exceeds what any amount of "but they played tiki-taka with 75% possession!" can ever explain. Or that their two rivals, Real Madrid and Espanyol, happen to be the two teams at the opposite end of the spectrum with the very worst balance.

I mean, you generally expect strong, attack-oriented teams to get more penalties and opposition red cards than average, but Barcelona's balance is so far out of proportion that it's comical, and anyone who chalks that up to their style of football is out of their mind. There's something like ten red cards to their opponents for each one to them. No team in the history of the sport has ever come even slightly close to such a record. It's completely unrealistic.

I tried to look it up at the time, and though it was kind of hard to find concise accountings of it, the normal situation across Europe was for the most dominant team in the league to get 30-50% more pens/reds to their advantage than the teams in the same leagues with the very worst records. Barcelona's is like... many, many, many times more favorable than that. They could have played with 100% possession for entire seasons and it would still be extremely suspicious to have come out ahead in the balance to such a degree.

For the period that this case pertains to, they're at a balance +77 red cards. Their opponents have had seventy-seven more red cards than they have. Consider that the norm is for any given team to have somewhere between 0 and 5 red cards for and against them throughout a season. I mean, who can even see that +77 tally and ever believe there's nothing fishy? For reference, Real Madrid are at -12 for the same period. Even if you subtract all of Pepe's and Ramos' reds, they'd be around +10. Could anyone possibly claim that Barcelona have been 800% more attack-oriented than Real Madrid? It would be a declaration of idiocy.


Anyone who can look at that and think the refs haven't been bending over backwards to help Barcelona is patently insane. It was also obvious when watching their actual games, but even if you don't, the statistics themselves are impossible to dismiss. While it doesn't directly prove that this is what Barcelona paid for, one would have to be very naïve to claim that it isn't suspicious. What are the chances that they've been secretly paying the refs, and getting incredibly favorable treatment from them, but there's no connection at all between the two? I mean, come on.

Wow

 

[Lemoor]

Barca fans in the comments there are so fecking precious.

 

[T00lsh3d]

You forgot the part where throughout that period, Barcelona's balance of refereeing decisions was so unbelievably beneficial that seeing visual representations of it (there are some earlier on the thread) is downright cartoonish, and far exceeds what any amount of "but they played tiki-taka with 75% possession!" can ever explain. Or that their two rivals, Real Madrid and Espanyol, happen to be the two teams at the opposite end of the spectrum with the very worst balance.

I mean, you generally expect strong, attack-oriented teams to get more penalties and opposition red cards than average, but Barcelona's balance is so far out of proportion that it's comical, and anyone who chalks that up to their style of football is out of their mind. There's something like ten red cards to their opponents for each one to them. No team in the history of the sport has ever come even slightly close to such a record. It's completely unrealistic.

I tried to look it up at the time, and though it was kind of hard to find concise accountings of it, the normal situation across Europe was for the most dominant team in the league to get 30-50% more pens/reds to their advantage than the teams in the same leagues with the very worst records. Barcelona's is like... many, many, many times more favorable than that. They could have played with 100% possession for entire seasons and it would still be extremely suspicious to have come out ahead in the balance to such a degree.

For the period that this case pertains to, they're at a balance +77 red cards. Their opponents have had seventy-seven more red cards than they have. Consider that the norm is for any given team to have somewhere between 0 and 5 red cards for and against them throughout a season. I mean, who can even see that +77 tally and ever believe there's nothing fishy? For reference, Real Madrid are at -12 for the same period. Even if you subtract all of Pepe's and Ramos' reds, they'd be around +10. Could anyone possibly claim that Barcelona have been 800% more attack-oriented than Real Madrid? It would be a declaration of idiocy.


Anyone who can look at that and think the refs haven't been bending over backwards to help Barcelona is patently insane. It was also obvious when watching their actual games, but even if you don't, the statistics themselves are impossible to dismiss. While it doesn't directly prove that this is what Barcelona paid for, one would have to be very naïve to claim that it isn't suspicious. What are the chances that they've been secretly paying the refs, and getting incredibly favorable treatment from them, but there's no connection at all between the two? I mean, come on.

A brutal burial of a post

 

[whitbyviking]

Barca fans in the comments there are so fecking precious.

Niemanns and cronies screaming "but I have links"

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Niemanns and cronies screaming "but I have links"

In poorly formatted walls of text, no less.

 

[whitbyviking]

You forgot the part where throughout that period, Barcelona's balance of refereeing decisions was so unbelievably beneficial that seeing visual representations of it (there are some earlier on the thread) is downright cartoonish, and far exceeds what any amount of "but they played tiki-taka with 75% possession!" can ever explain. Or that their two rivals, Real Madrid and Espanyol, happen to be the two teams at the opposite end of the spectrum with the very worst balance.

I mean, you generally expect strong, attack-oriented teams to get more penalties and opposition red cards than average, but Barcelona's balance is so far out of proportion that it's comical, and anyone who chalks that up to their style of football is out of their mind. There's something like ten red cards to their opponents for each one to them. No team in the history of the sport has ever come even slightly close to such a record. It's completely unrealistic.

I tried to look it up at the time, and though it was kind of hard to find concise accountings of it, the normal situation across Europe was for the most dominant team in the league to get 30-50% more pens/reds to their advantage than the teams in the same leagues with the very worst records. Barcelona's is like... many, many, many times more favorable than that. They could have played with 100% possession for entire seasons and it would still be extremely suspicious to have come out ahead in the balance to such a degree.

For the period that this case pertains to, they're at a balance +77 red cards. Their opponents have had seventy-seven more red cards than they have. Consider that the norm is for any given team to have somewhere between 0 and 5 red cards for and against them throughout a season. I mean, who can even see that +77 tally and ever believe there's nothing fishy? For reference, Real Madrid are at -12 for the same period. Even if you subtract all of Pepe's and Ramos' reds, they'd be around +10. Could anyone possibly claim that Barcelona have been 800% more attack-oriented than Real Madrid? It would be a declaration of idiocy.


Anyone who can look at that and think the refs haven't been bending over backwards to help Barcelona is patently insane. It was also obvious when watching their actual games, but even if you don't, the statistics themselves are impossible to dismiss. While it doesn't directly prove that this is what Barcelona paid for, one would have to be very naïve to claim that it isn't suspicious. What are the chances that they've been secretly paying the refs, and getting incredibly favorable treatment from them, but there's no connection at all between the two? I mean, come on.

Quality post, illustrates that this is either the mother of all coincidences, or they are indeed up to no good. What do they say: if it barks like a dog? walks like a duck? dissembles like a cule?

 

[whitbyviking]

In poorly formatted walls of text, no less.

Absolutely, accompanied by lots of passive aggressive ad homs and claims of intellectual superiority

 

[Dave Smith]

In a court of law I just don't see how they're going to be able to make a convincing argument.

 

[sglowrider]

In a court of law I just don't see how they're going to be able to make a convincing argument.

It's circumstantial. But in the court of public opinion, I think the conclusion is obvious

 

[glasgow 21]

It's so fecking obvious they've been buying the refs in the CL too. Hope they got charged and stripped off all their titles. We might have another two CL redcafe will go nuts

Well I agree. If for instance they were charged and found using P.E.D. aka Armstorng, the result would be that they are stripped of their titles during the period proven. It is not inconceivable that financial doping of a Negreira would result in the same penalty.

 

[Dave Smith]

It's circumstantial. But in the court of public opinion, I think the conclusion is obvious

The payments are there all to see. Additionally, the conflicts of interest which weren't declared are also there. On top of that, their is no similar type of arrangement that they can point to (where the ref is still employed.) Then you get to the caldenstine nature of the payments and the lack of evidence of any work being carried out.

That isn't circumstantial.

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

Too much of a punishment if you ask me

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[Messier1994]

I’m pretty sure most clubs will have some kind of review into the officiating of games. Every other detail is analyzed. It would be naive to think they wouldn’t. The issue relating to this specific case is that he was Vice President and had the potential to substantially influence games. This is a massive ethics violation in any place of work. I don’t know the legalities of it, if there is any, I don’t care to look either. Now UEFAs ethics committee is reviewing this case so at the very least there should be a punishment. I’m hoping Laporta is banned from football, it needs to happen, he is a slimey cnut.

Yeah for sure, and of course some coaching from ex referees etc.

But a record on if 15-20 main calls was correct or if they were incorrect, if the calls went for or against your club? What would they do with that?

 

[Strelok]

Well I agree. If for instance they were charged and found using P.E.D. aka Armstorng, the result would be that they are stripped of their titles during the period proven. It is not inconceivable that financial doping of a Negreira would result in the same penalty.

Juventus got stripped off all their titles for much less imo. But tbh I'd doubt this would happen they're called 'Uefalona' for a reason.

 

[giorno]

The payments are there all to see. Additionally, the conflicts of interest which weren't declared are also there. On top of that, their is no similar type of arrangement that they can point to (where the ref is still employed.) Then you get to the caldenstine nature of the payments and the lack of evidence of any work being carried out.

That isn't circumstantial.

Everything you just described is not against the law. So yeah, it is circumstantial

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

There seem to be some confusion as to how those grading reports of refs from Barca's games should be interpreted. Would it make sense for FCB to -- seen isolated -- engage someone to review the ref in each game they play, and show how much they benefited from the referee's work? To me it quite obviously seem to be some sort of 'proof of works'. Look, of 5 blown calls in a game, 4 went in favor of you and 1 against -- we are doing a good job.

I think a key factor here is that most of the invoices we have seen are not for referee reports. They are for 'videos' on players and other things.

 

[carvajal]

There are Barça supporters' accounts on twitter (with a large number of followers) speculating about the money they are going to get from the journalists in the lawsuits, or showing penalties that favoured Madrid in 84/85!

 

[FreckBarca]

There are Barça supporters' accounts on twitter (with a large number of followers) speculating about the money they are going to get from the journalists in the lawsuits, or showing penalties that favoured Madrid in 84/85!

"That will show them"

 

[FriedClams]

There are Barça supporters' accounts on twitter (with a large number of followers) speculating about the money they are going to get from the journalists in the lawsuits, or showing penalties that favoured Madrid in 84/85!

barcelona playing 4d chess. This is just another one of their levers.

 

[FattyFooty]

I remeber they usally got very lucky with the refs in CL. But this is only there own league?

 

[RoyH1]

barcelona playing 4d chess. This is just another one of their levers.

True. Laporta is a step ahead of everyone.

 

[FreckBarca]

I remeber they usally got very lucky with the refs in CL. But this is only there own league?

So far yes.

 

[Dave Smith]

Everything you just described is not against the law. So yeah, it is circumstantial

Well its isn't. Circumstantial means when you think something is true but you cannot prove it. However, the following has been proven:

1) Barca made payments to the VP of Referees for the duration he was in that post and only stopped once he stepped down.

2) They set up the payments in a caldestine manner.

3) Neither party informed the regulartory bodies that they were undertaking such a arrangement.

4) There is no other, known, example of a club doing this.

5) The former managers of Barca say they never recieved any reports.

6) Former presidents say they didn't know the VP was involved, yet there is email communication between him and the club when the arrangement was terminated and no indication of any surprise my Barca that he was involved.

This is why Barca have been charged with corruption and not simply referred as the above is a case book example of money laundering or making payments to corrupt sporting outcomes.

Now this is very different to what we see normally in a sporting scandal. I say this, as normally the regulatory body has to prove a Club has done something wrong, whereas this time the club has to disprove the accusation. On top of this, the trail will be heard in a public court and not behind closed doors as in a sporting regulatory body hearing.

Lastly, what I do not think is being made enough of is the VP saying that the payments where for Barca to ensure neutrality. This consequently means that either Spanish Football as a whole is so corrupt that all clubs have to pay off referees or that Barca and the VP where indeed corrupting the sport and have been caught.