Official: FC Barcelona charged with Corruption over payments to former referees chief | UEFA open investigation

[Iker Quesadillas]

I think you two might just be disagreeing on definitions.

Circumstancial evidence is "evidence that relies on an inference to connect it to a conclusion of fact—such as a fingerprint at the scene of a crime."

Based on that definition, I would say the evidence is circumstancial. We have to infer, from various bits of evidence, that the payments were not for what they are claimed to be.

 

[NLunited]

I think you two might just be disagreeing on definitions.

Circumstancial evidence is "evidence that relies on an inference to connect it to a conclusion of fact—such as a fingerprint at the scene of a crime."

Based on that definition, I would say the evidence is circumstancial. We have to infer, from various bits of evidence, that the payments were not for what they are claimed to be.

The payments themselves are the issue, not what they might have been for.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

The payments are not illegal in and of themselves, as far as I'm aware.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Negreira's entire statement is available, I had missed it. Reading through it, it's quite bizarre.


What were your responsibilities to FC Barcelona (through your company Dasnil)?

Going to see the games (either personally or through former refs) and be aware of why decisions had been made. Barcelona felt that they were treated unfairly and other clubs were favored (this is a hypothesis that nobody has told me directly). My duty was to give my opinion about the games' refereeing and the players. Technical consulting. What FC Barcelona wanted was to ensure that no decisions were made against them, that it was all neutral.

Did you meet with the club periodically to provide this technical consulting?

No, I met them 6 times a year at most.

Is there any document, report, or anything of the sort, that includes the conclusions of the technical consulting you provided through DASNIL to FC Barcelona?

No.

If you only met them 6 times a year, at most, and there were no written reports, why were you paid the following invoices by DASNIL (shows table)?

Because this way they felt assured that at the refereeing committee there were no decisions taken against FC Barcelona, that everything was neutral.

What did DASNIL pay your son Javier for?

For running the company when I was sick.

Did your son Javier create refereeing reports for DASNIL?

No.

Did you bill FC Barcelona for any reports written by your son?

No.



For reasons I can't even begin to understand, Enriquez Negreira denied the existence of any refereeing reports.

 

[AneRu]

I think you two might just be disagreeing on definitions.

Circumstancial evidence is "evidence that relies on an inference to connect it to a conclusion of fact—such as a fingerprint at the scene of a crime."

Based on that definition, I would say the evidence is circumstancial. We have to infer, from various bits of evidence, that the payments were not for what they are claimed to be.

I dont see what the fuss is all about, Barcelona have been caught paying a Referee for 18 years. That's an open shut case for sporting regulatory authorities, there is no need for further dicussions on this. The whole book should be thrown at Barca and see them relegated to the fourth tier or somewhere there. They are being treated with kid gloves.

 

[Godfather]

Negreira's entire statement is available, I had missed it. Reading through it, it's quite bizarre.


What were your responsibilities to FC Barcelona (through your company Dasnil)?

Going to see the games (either personally or through former refs) and be aware of why decisions had been made. Barcelona felt that they were treated unfairly and other clubs were favored (this is a hypothesis that nobody has told me directly). My duty was to give my opinion about the games' refereeing and the players. Technical consulting. What FC Barcelona wanted was to ensure that no decisions were made against them, that it was all neutral.

Did you meet with the club periodically to provide this technical consulting?

No, I met them 6 times a year at most.

Is there any document, report, or anything of the sort, that includes the conclusions of the technical consulting you provided through DASNIL to FC Barcelona?

No.

If you only met them 6 times a year, at most, and there were no written reports, why were you paid the following invoices by DASNIL (shows table)?

Because this way they felt assured that at the refereeing committee there were no decisions taken against FC Barcelona, that everything was neutral.

What did DASNIL pay your son Javier for?

For running the company when I was sick.

Did your son Javier create refereeing reports for DASNIL?

No.

Did you bill FC Barcelona for any reports written by your son?

No.



For reasons I can't even begin to understand, Enriquez Negreira denied the existence of any refereeing reports.

Wow that is really bad briefing. If you start lying at least don't make it worse.

 

[GatoLoco]

For reasons I can't even begin to understand, Enriquez Negreira denied the existence of any refereeing reports.

But we knew this since day one.

The first news appeared on 15 February in Cadena Ser Catalunya.

https://cadenaser.com/cataluna/2023...esoramiento-mientras-ejercia-su-cargo-sercat/

Look at the following paragraph:

The investigation by the Public Prosecutor's Office is related to a tax inspection for irregularities in the taxation of the three years mentioned above and to the explanations given by Enríquez Negreira to the Tax Agency inspectors, where the former referee "did not provide any document to prove that he provided a service to FCB", according to the Tax Agency. Enríquez Negreira has assured Cadena SER that there is no documentation because his work consisted of verbally advising FCB, among other things, on how the players should behave in front of each referee.

The main reason we have been speaking about refereeing reports linked to Enriquez Negreira (the father) is because 1) Barcelona mentioned them in their official statement 2) Enriquez Romero (Enriquez Negreira's son) was supposedly being paid by FC Barcelona for this concept, even though no FC Barcelona manager, including Guardiola, Martino and Valverde ever saw them.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

We did. But we did not know, for example, that he denied that his son wrote any reports or that he billed Barcelona for any reports his son made.

 

[FreckBarca]

We did. But we did not know, for example, that he denied that his son wrote any reports or that he billed Barcelona for any reports his son made.

AFAIK, the reports we have seen were made by his son.
The thing is his son was paid separately, through other companies and through Contreras (the one who was keeping 50% of it).
But it is really muddy, it is difficult to be sure.

 

[Messier1994]

@FreckBarca Do you still have any of those long threads going with all the facts?

 

[The Purley King]

Negreira's entire statement is available, I had missed it. Reading through it, it's quite bizarre.


What were your responsibilities to FC Barcelona (through your company Dasnil)?

Going to see the games (either personally or through former refs) and be aware of why decisions had been made. Barcelona felt that they were treated unfairly and other clubs were favored (this is a hypothesis that nobody has told me directly). My duty was to give my opinion about the games' refereeing and the players. Technical consulting. What FC Barcelona wanted was to ensure that no decisions were made against them, that it was all neutral.

Did you meet with the club periodically to provide this technical consulting?

No, I met them 6 times a year at most.

Is there any document, report, or anything of the sort, that includes the conclusions of the technical consulting you provided through DASNIL to FC Barcelona?

No.

If you only met them 6 times a year, at most, and there were no written reports, why were you paid the following invoices by DASNIL (shows table)?

Because this way they felt assured that at the refereeing committee there were no decisions taken against FC Barcelona, that everything was neutral.

What did DASNIL pay your son Javier for?

For running the company when I was sick.

Did your son Javier create refereeing reports for DASNIL?

No.

Did you bill FC Barcelona for any reports written by your son?

No.



For reasons I can't even begin to understand, Enriquez Negreira denied the existence of any refereeing reports.

that is hardly a damning rebuttal
Essentially- I got paid a small fortune for turning up to work once every 2 months

 

[GatoLoco]

We did. But we did not know, for example, that he denied that his son wrote any reports or that he billed Barcelona for any reports his son made.

Maybe not for DASNIL, but his son had a different company, didn't he?

 

[The Corinthian]

Negreira's entire statement is available, I had missed it. Reading through it, it's quite bizarre.


What were your responsibilities to FC Barcelona (through your company Dasnil)?

Going to see the games (either personally or through former refs) and be aware of why decisions had been made. Barcelona felt that they were treated unfairly and other clubs were favored (this is a hypothesis that nobody has told me directly). My duty was to give my opinion about the games' refereeing and the players. Technical consulting. What FC Barcelona wanted was to ensure that no decisions were made against them, that it was all neutral.

Did you meet with the club periodically to provide this technical consulting?

No, I met them 6 times a year at most.

Is there any document, report, or anything of the sort, that includes the conclusions of the technical consulting you provided through DASNIL to FC Barcelona?

No.

If you only met them 6 times a year, at most, and there were no written reports, why were you paid the following invoices by DASNIL (shows table)?

Because this way they felt assured that at the refereeing committee there were no decisions taken against FC Barcelona, that everything was neutral.

What did DASNIL pay your son Javier for?

For running the company when I was sick.

Did your son Javier create refereeing reports for DASNIL?

No.

Did you bill FC Barcelona for any reports written by your son?

No.



For reasons I can't even begin to understand, Enriquez Negreira denied the existence of any refereeing reports.

This is up there with the Prince Andrew interview from a few years ago.

 

[SirReginald]

If you only met them 6 times a year, at most, and there were no written reports, why were you paid the following invoices by DASNIL (shows table)?

Because this way they felt assured that at the refereeing committee there were no decisions taken against FC Barcelona, that everything was neutral.

This is my favourite part of the car crash interview. Barcelona paid for neutrality.

I’m sorry. In what fecking reality does that make any sense.

1 club out of 20 is paying the VP of the officials for neutrality.

feck me, mankind is doomed if that bullshit is accepted.

If this is not a clear admission that sporting ethics has been broken then football is well and truly in the mud.

On top of that, the way the payments were made and the lack of clarity or authorization from any sporting body to allow this, is clear admission of guilt by both parties.

feck Laporta, ban him for life.

 

[NLunited]

This is my favourite part of the car crash interview. Barcelona paid for neutrality.

I’m sorry. In what fecking reality does that make any sense.

1 club out of 20 is paying the VP of the officials for neutrality.

feck me, mankind is doomed if that bullshit is accepted.

If this is not a clear admission that sporting ethics has been broken then football is well and truly in the mud.

On top of that, the way the payments were made and the lack of clarity or authorization from any sporting body to allow this, is clear admission of guilt by both parties.

feck Laporta, ban him for life.

The funny thing is, the Barcelona die hards accept it. This club is so broken and corrupt that they think this is normal behaviour.

 

[Prodigal7]

This is my favourite part of the car crash interview. Barcelona paid for neutrality.

I’m sorry. In what fecking reality does that make any sense.

1 club out of 20 is paying the VP of the officials for neutrality.

feck me, mankind is doomed if that bullshit is accepted.

If this is not a clear admission that sporting ethics has been broken then football is well and truly in the mud.

On top of that, the way the payments were made and the lack of clarity or authorization from any sporting body to allow this, is clear admission of guilt by both parties.

feck Laporta, ban him for life.

Makes sense. I mean the ref you lot had when you played Barca in 2009 was especially neutral. I mean really, REALLY neutral

 

[giorno]

Well its isn't. Circumstantial means when you think something is true but you cannot prove it. However, the following has been proven:

Circumstantial means there is no actual, direct proof of crime/guilt but enough to make a reasonable assumption of crime/guilt

1) Barca made payments to the VP of Referees for the duration he was in that post and only stopped once he stepped down.

Not a crime

2) They set up the payments in a caldestine manner.

Also not a crime. They aren't accused of tax fraud is which is the only potential crime here

3) Neither party informed the regulartory bodies that they were undertaking such a arrangement.

Still not a crime

4) There is no other, known, example of a club doing this.

Ditto

5) The former managers of Barca say they never recieved any reports.

and again

6) Former presidents say they didn't know the VP was involved, yet there is email communication between him and the club when the arrangement was terminated and no indication of any surprise my Barca that he was involved.

Unless they said that to investigators under interrogation, STILL NOT a crime

This is why Barca have been charged with corruption and not simply referred as the above is a case book example of money laundering or making payments to corrupt sporting outcomes.

Now this is very different to what we see normally in a sporting scandal. I say this, as normally the regulatory body has to prove a Club has done something wrong, whereas this time the club has to disprove the accusation. .

You are incorrect. The accusation very much has to prove that a crime has been committed. The onus is on them to prove a crime was committed and Barcelona and Negreira are the guilty parties involved. Barcelona does not have to disprove anything at this time

 

[NLunited]

Circumstantial means there is no actual, direct proof of crime/guilt but enough to make a reasonable assumption of crime/guilt


Not a crime


Also not a crime. They aren't accused of tax fraud is which is the only potential crime here


Still not a crime


Ditto

and again


Unless they said that to investigators under interrogation, STILL NOT a crime


You are incorrect. The accusation very much has to prove that a crime has been committed. The onus is on them to prove a crime was committed and Barcelona and Negreira are the guilty parties involved. Barcelona does not have to disprove anything at this time

So paying off referees isn‘t a crime? What‘s your point exactly?

 

[colombianmancunian]

The funny thing is, the Barcelona die hards accept it. This club is so broken and corrupt that they think this is normal behaviour.

They not only accept it. They accept it while thinking of themselves as a morally superior institution that is involved in a complot against their sacrosanct “valors”. Barcelocas are delusional.

 

[giorno]

So paying off referees isn‘t a crime? What‘s your point exactly?

That i expect barcelona to get away with this because fraud is incredibly difficult to prove and the prosecution doesn't appear to have a smoking gun on their hands

 

[sglowrider]

That i expect barcelona to get away with this because fraud is incredibly difficult to prove and the prosecution doesn't appear to have a smoking gun on their hands

Its certainly circumstantial and a case of very poor PR. But Barca has already lost in the court of public opinion. It is slowly chipping away at the perception of 'exceptionalism', Mes Que Un Club.

Levers last summer and now this nasty business with the ref.

For now, anything they do will be looked at with a huge dollop of cynicism. It may take a couple of decades of gaslighting to rebuild its reputation.

 

[whitbyviking]

Surely admitting to "paying for neutrality" is an attempt to pervert the game? What if they were in a match where they didn't deserve "neutrality", and instead should have had many decisions go against them, but they didn't because the referees were paid. By trying to achieve neutrality they are paying to influence the outcome of a game, which is known as bribery in many other scenarios. Who is to decide what is neutral, or not. You see the way their fans behave, ignoring everything they have benefited from and scraping up videos and alleged decisions that cost them 20 titles in a row or whatever it was.

 

[Bestie07]

A club can't be paying the referee. Doesn't matter what for. Every argument is just an attempt to justify something that can't be justified.

 

[Slevs]

Lets be honest, you lot are making it seem worse than it really is.

I can proudly say I can remain neutral in my judgements between 2 parties, while receiving enormous amounts of money from 1 party.

 

[Walrus]

In many lines of work, anti-bribery/corruption training takes place. This will usually highlight that you CANNOT accept gifts from stakeholders in any kind of competitive environment, where it could be seen or perceived that there was some quid-pro-quo in place. Even if the gift itself was completely innocuous.

My question is, what do La Liga’s rules say on the subject?

 

[AndySmith1990]

Disgraceful club. fecking corrupt lever pulling pricks

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

In many lines of work, anti-bribery/corruption training takes place. This will usually highlight that you CANNOT accept gifts from stakeholders in any kind of competitive environment, where it could be seen or perceived that there was some quid-pro-quo in place. Even if the gift itself was completely innocuous.

My question is, what do La Liga’s rules say on the subject?

As far as La Liga goes, everything prescribes after 3 years (which is ridiculous).

 

[Wibble]

Circumstantial means there is no actual, direct proof of crime/guilt but enough to make a reasonable assumption of crime/guilt


Not a crime


Also not a crime. They aren't accused of tax fraud is which is the only potential crime here


Still not a crime


Ditto

and again


Unless they said that to investigators under interrogation, STILL NOT a crime


You are incorrect. The accusation very much has to prove that a crime has been committed. The onus is on them to prove a crime was committed and Barcelona and Negreira are the guilty parties involved. Barcelona does not have to disprove anything at this time

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands.

DNA

 

[Strelok]

Lets be honest, you lot are making it seem worse than it really is.

I can proudly say I can remain neutral in my judgements between 2 parties, while receiving enormous amounts of money from 1 party.

 

[SirReginald]

A club can't be paying the referee. Doesn't matter what for. Every argument is just an attempt to justify something that can't be justified.

They’re not making arguments or even giving reasonable explanations. They’re taking the Trump route of calling it fake news and everyone else is corrupt and against them. The fans continue to repeat the same shit “Laporta will explain” but the slimey cnut is saying nothing and has probably been advised to say nothing. So we continue to go round in circles.

 

[SirReginald]

Makes sense. I mean the ref you lot had when you played Barca in 2009 was especially neutral. I mean really, REALLY neutral

Urgh. Iniesta scored an absolute cracker but we had at least 2 clear penalties in that game. If that ref was neutral then surely Ballack and Drogba would have also got red cards for their absolute (yet justifiable) on the field meltdowns.

 

[pacifictheme]

Its certainly circumstantial and a case of very poor PR. But Barca has already lost in the court of public opinion. It is slowly chipping away at the perception of 'exceptionalism', Mes Que Un Club.

Levers last summer and now this nasty business with the ref.

For now, anything they do will be looked at with a huge dollop of cynicism. It may take a couple of decades of gaslighting to rebuild its reputation.

People realised barca were a bunch of belleneds a long time before last summer. That and this is just confirmation.

 

[Brophs]

Must be hard to find that balance between paying him just enough to make sure the balance is absolutely neutral and not paying slightly too much so that he’s slightly disposed towards you. Like tipping on holidays.

 

[sglowrider]

As far as La Liga goes, everything prescribes after 3 years (which is ridiculous).

Any investigations can take up to a few years if they want folks to be doing it properly. Why bother with any rules then if the statute of limation is only 3yrs? It's a weird one.

Feckin' parking tickets last longer.

 

[cyberman]

How would it be circumstantial when the payments have been found? Payments are a smoking gun if anything, especially when they admit they wanted to influence arbitration matters.

 

[sglowrider]

How would it be circumstantial when the payments have been found? Payments are a smoking gun if anything, especially when they admit they wanted to influence arbitration matters.

There is no crime in sending money. The smoking gun is if there is evidence of a quid pro quo.

 

[rimaldo]

Must be hard to find that balance between paying him just enough to make sure the balance is absolutely neutral and not paying slightly too much so that he’s slightly disposed towards you. Like tipping on holidays.

 

[Andy_Cole]

Circumstantial means there is no actual, direct proof of crime/guilt but enough to make a reasonable assumption of crime/guilt


Not a crime


Also not a crime. They aren't accused of tax fraud is which is the only potential crime here


Still not a crime


Ditto

and again


Unless they said that to investigators under interrogation, STILL NOT a crime


You are incorrect. The accusation very much has to prove that a crime has been committed. The onus is on them to prove a crime was committed and Barcelona and Negreira are the guilty parties involved. Barcelona does not have to disprove anything at this time

Not a crime?

Paying the VP of refs? Surely that is.

Like me being a mafia boss making payments to the police commissioner to turn a blind eye to my illegal operation.

 

[Tincanalley]

If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, we have at least to consider the possibility that we have a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae on our hands.

DNA

What if it’s a duck decoy with realistic mallard plumage and automated duck caller audio?

 

[Wibble]

What if it’s a duck decoy with realistic mallard plumage and automated duck caller audio?

As likely as Barca's explanation I'd say.