Moises Caicedo | Chelsea agree £115M fee | signed for Chelsea

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DWelbz19

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Yet Brighton who play in the same division under the same rules managed to get a deal done.

How does that work then?
As has been explained ad nauseam, a big part of it was that they had just signed Billy Arce the season before who was basically an identical [or]deal and they used their experiences from that to massively get Caicedo over the line

EDIT: don’t think that made a deal impossible for us, or anything — more that it made it a lot easier for Brighton who did end up with the player
 

CM

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He's one of those players who does well every time he plays against us. I really hope he doesn't end up at a team like Arsenal or Chelsea.
 

Isotope

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As has been explained ad nauseam, a big part of it was that they had just signed Billy Arce the season before who was basically an identical [or]deal and they used their experiences from that to massively get Caicedo over the line

EDIT: don’t think that made a deal impossible for us, or anything — more that it made it a lot easier for Brighton who did end up with the player
It means Brighton could do it without prior experience when they signed Billy Arce. So the reasoning of needed "prior experience" is BS in our part.
 

daba

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He's one of those players who does well every time he plays against us. I really hope he doesn't end up at a team like Arsenal or Chelsea.
I agree, he feels like the type of player who can easily raise his game to whatever level he plays.
 

mu4c_20le

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Even that reasoning looks weak in hindsight. It's easy to say now, but he was really well regarded and it's obvious to see why. It's a shame a slightly more complicated process was the reason we foregoed the signing and let Brighton get him.

They won't make that mistake again.
Good luck with that. We were also heavily linked with Enzo and Alvarez and failed to get either over the line.
 

redcucumber

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Good luck with that. We were also heavily linked with Enzo and Alvarez and failed to get either over the line.
Didn't we fail to get those two over the line for other reasons? Actively deciding that you want to sign a specific player and then backing out because of a complicated representation situation seemed fairly unique.
 

Adnan

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Signing a well rounded keeper who is comfortable on the ball is just as important as signing a midfielder who is comfortable at receiving and playing passes under pressure.

If you have a head coach who wants to play through the defensive third, then there's only so much that can be done with players who are weak against coordinated high pressure. You can't carry on playing it long all the time.

Erik ten Hag has done a great job thus far, but for us to take the next steps towards being a dominant team, we need clear upgrades in several positions starting with the keeper who should be expected to create the first superiority against the press on the ball.
 

TwoSheds

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I didn't really see the fuss today, Martial and Bruno did a good job on him for most of the game. He drove forward well at times and obviously battled well but we did dispossess him in good areas more than once. Don't get me wrong I think he's a very good player but I didn't think it was a special performance today and he certainly wasn't Man of the Match in my view. Lindelof deserved that accolade for me with Wan Bissaka a close 2nd.
 

daba

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He reminds me of a mix between Makelele and Michael Essien.
I think the Essien comparison is actually spot on, great shout.

Good passer with decent range and the ability to play intricate touches/passes, great at making little breaking runs through midfield and of course one of the best battlers/tacklers around.

This reel of Essien in 10/11 feels remarkably similar to Caicedo:

 

humdinger

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I would love him here but just can’t see how we could afford it given our other weaknesses. We need to spread funds about a bit. I’d rather go for Lavia and have a chunk of change for another signing.
Damn shame though, he’s great.
 

Borys

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I would love him here but just can’t see how we could afford it given our other weaknesses. We need to spread funds about a bit. I’d rather go for Lavia and have a chunk of change for another signing.
Damn shame though, he’s great.
Probably this kind of midfielder is our second priority, no? I would imagine we can pay big money for Caicedo, as he's actually very young for the position he plays.
 

gajender

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Probably this kind of midfielder is our second priority, no? I would imagine we can pay big money for Caicedo, as he's actually very young for the position he plays.
He would cost big money but would be worth it but if we can't then we should actually look at Manuel Ugarte at Sporting who is equally talented but would be fair fit cheaper .
 

Borys

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He would cost big money but would be worth it but if we can't then we should actually look at Manuel Ugarte at Sporting who is equally talented but would be fair fit cheaper .
I hope we can buy two players of the maximum available quality. I would rather make compromises on the next priorities.
Buying a CF and CM like Caicedo would elevate us to title contenders IMO. But I don't know the guy you mentioned so maybe it makes sense to go for him.
 

humdinger

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Probably this kind of midfielder is our second priority, no? I would imagine we can pay big money for Caicedo, as he's actually very young for the position he plays.
Yeah but we’re talking really big here surely. How much did Brighton turn down from Arsenal - £70 million? What would it take for them to agree to sell - £100 million? We can’t afford that plus a striker plus a centre back. I’d like a goalkeeper as well ideally.

I’d go for a cheaper midfielder if it helped us strengthen the team more now. Hopefully he stays at Brighton another year and we have a shot at getting him next summer.
 

Borys

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Yeah but we’re talking really big here surely. How much did Brighton turn down from Arsenal - £70 million? What would it take for them to agree to sell - £100 million? We can’t afford that plus a striker plus a centre back. I’d like a goalkeeper as well ideally.

I’d go for a cheaper midfielder if it helped us strengthen the team more now. Hopefully he stays at Brighton another year and we have a shot at getting him next summer.
Yeah that sounds sensible. I just think this guy is the real deal and suits us like a glove.
 

humdinger

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Yeah that sounds sensible. I just think this guy is the real deal and suits us like a glove.
He’s great. If we got him I’d be delighted but just can’t see how it’s possible unless we make some great sales and find some really cheap gems for the other positions.

I really hope he doesn’t end up at a rival club.
 

Woziak

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I don’t know why people think we can’t afford Caciedo and a top class striker. Caciedo can be done for £80-85m, he’s 21 a known united fan, wanted to come before but we messed it up, we missed out on Ngolo Kante , can not afford to miss out on this kid, we can sell Brandon Williams for £8m and Antony Elanga for £12m which will give the club £20m of profit as we never paid for them in the first place to set against buying Moses Caciedo at even £100m which will be amortised at £20m per year over a 5 year contract, the real and only question is do we have the money to pay up front probably £85m in one payment or instalments of probably £25m per year over 4 years.

Simple;

1. Do we want to sign Caciedo ? Yes
2. Would he come to Man united? Yes
3. Can we afford to pay him £125-175k per week ? Yes
4. Did he recently sign a new contract on rumoured £50k per week with a gentleman’s agreement to leave if a big offer came in ? Yes
5. Would he suit United more than D Rice and others ? Yes
6. Would he solve the DM/CM for next decade ? Yes
7. Can he play as a 6 or an 8 ? Yes
8. Would he learn a huge amounts playing next to Casemeiro and Ericsen? Yes
9. Do we currently have the money in the bank for transfers as of April 24th ? No
10. Will we pay the credit line set up for transfers by End of July - Yes
11. Does ETH actually want him ? - After yesterday I’d say 100% Yes
12. Can John Murtourgh start the process even with the clubs ownership not confirmed ? Yes he can start and state we should be able to sanction the transfer in early July
13. Whom ever buys Man united between July and August 23, is it fair that they will agree to the signing of Moses Caciedo for the club. ? Yes
14 . Do we think we can get a deal done upfront cash for £85M ? Yes
 
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daba

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I hope we can buy two players of the maximum available quality. I would rather make compromises on the next priorities.
Buying a CF and CM like Caicedo would elevate us to title contenders IMO. But I don't know the guy you mentioned so maybe it makes sense to go for him.
When you get 5, check Ugarte out on YouTube. He’s an absolute Rottweiler of a DM/CM, aggressive without the ball, calm with it, high energy and can pick a pass. Similar qualities to Caicedo but probably £30m cheaper.

I really like Caicedo and will be gutted to see him at another PL club, but if that £30m could go towards a new ball playing keeper like Costa then I’d lean slightly towards Ugarte (or Lavia for that matter).
 

backofthenet

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He's not the messiah... he's a very naughty boy
I don’t know why people think we can’t afford Caciedo and a top class striker. Caciedo can be done for £80-85m, he’s 21 a known united fan, wanted to come before but we messed it up, we missed out on Ngolo Kante , can not afford to miss out on this kid, we can sell Brandon Williams for £8m and Antony Elanga for £12m which will give the club £20m of profit as we never paid for them in the first place to set against buying Moses Caciedo at even £100m which will be amortised at £20m per year over a 5 year contract, the real and only question is do we have the money to pay up front probably £85m in one payment or instalments of probably £25m per year over 4 years.
The idea that he can be done for that sum is not realistic. Brighton rejected a number very similar to that in the January window, and that was before he signed a new contract for 5 years. A PL club comes calling, its going to be a 9 digit number before they'll even pick up the phone, and with all of our funds needed for, likely, Kane, we can forget about this lad this year.
 

Skills

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There's no guarantee he would've developed anywhere near as well over here. It's actually, quite unlikely he would as good as he is now at Brighton.
 

zaafi

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There's no guarantee he would've developed anywhere near as well over here. It's actually, quite unlikely he would as good as he is now at Brighton.
He wouldn't have, which is why I find it surprising people are upset we didn't buy him. He wouldn't have played over Fred and McTominay in midfield at the time, although when you look at it now, with how he has turned out, it seems ridiculous.
He didn't get into the Brighton midfield right away either. He was loaned out for a half season to a team in Belgium to develop.
 

luke511

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As long as we have Bruno in the no.10 position I think having a player like Caicedo alongside Casemiro is a huge necessity in the big games. It would make us solid and make up for the holes in midfield and high risk high reward passes. We really need a top DLP but there's not that many out there. I don't think De Jong is coming to us in the summer, so there's opportunity to find great value in scouting an up and coming DLP at a cheaper price, buy Caicedo and use Bruno as an 8 when needed, with one CDM and maybe Amad as the 10 in the dominant games. If utd are clever with their outgoings this summer then it's doable, along with a new keeper and striker.
 

Blood Mage

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Was probably the best player on the pitch yesterday, if not for him Brighton wouldn't have caused us much trouble. I don't want to see him play for a rival. :nervous:
 

Woziak

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The idea that he can be done for that sum is not realistic. Brighton rejected a number very similar to that in the January window, and that was before he signed a new contract for 5 years. A PL club comes calling, its going to be a 9 digit number before they'll even pick up the phone, and with all of our funds needed for, likely, Kane, we can forget about this lad this year.
Clearly people still don’t understand FSP financial sustainability Play.

This year season starting 2023/24 A Club can only spend 90% of their turnover on Net Transfer spend, Club Wages and Agent Fees (Now highly regulated by a new Fifa Examination and limited to 10% of the overall sales value)

Net Transfer spend does not work in the way that if Man united were to spend £250m gross on 6 players and then Sell 8 for £105m meaning that the club net spend would be £145m, this is a common Misunderstood theory.

If Man United sell Dean Henderson (£25m), B Williams(£8m) and Antony Elanga for £12m that represents a profit of £40m in our transfer line as we did not pay for any of those players, they all came through our youth team. If we then buy H Kane (£110m), KMJ(£40m) and Caciedo for £100m all on 5 year contracts, the club is able to amortise their purchases by the length of the contract so the £250m would cost the club £50m in gross sales and would be offset by our player sales so our net position would be £10m net spend. This is why we sold James Garner £17m and Andreas Pereira £13m last season.

The club turnover is looking like £550m so we can spend 90% or £495m in wages, rumoured to be way too high at £380m, let’s assume the agents fees on the player sales was 10% so £25m that means the club would have spent £415m against an allowance of £495m.This is why Qatar and SJR are so keen to get this deal done as quickly as possible this year represents the best opportunity to recruit and spend £300-350m after player sales, Next year FSP drops to 80% and then in 25/26 to 70%.

More importantly, this is why teams like Barcelona and PSG can’t really operate this summer in transfer window their wages are more than their turnover or very close.

The Glazers problems are very different, they have no cash and are relying on the clubs success to bankroll and pay off a credit line of £300m so they can clear the debt in June and use that credit facility to buy players, selected by the club or advised by new owners.
 
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Abraxas

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I don’t know why people think we can’t afford Caciedo and a top class striker. Caciedo can be done for £80-85m, he’s 21 a known united fan, wanted to come before but we messed it up, we missed out on Ngolo Kante , can not afford to miss out on this kid, we can sell Brandon Williams for £8m and Antony Elanga for £12m which will give the club £20m of profit as we never paid for them in the first place to set against buying Moses Caciedo at even £100m which will be amortised at £20m per year over a 5 year contract, the real and only question is do we have the money to pay up front probably £85m in one payment or instalments of probably £25m per year over 4 years.

Simple;

1. Do we want to sign Caciedo ? Yes
2. Would he come to Man united? Yes
3. Can we afford to pay him £125-175k per week ? Yes
4. Did he recently sign a new contract on rumoured £50k per week with a gentleman’s agreement to leave if a big offer came in ? Yes
5. Would he suit United more than D Rice and others ? Yes
6. Would he solve the DM/CM for next decade ? Yes
7. Can he play as a 6 or an 8 ? Yes
8. Would he learn a huge amounts playing next to Casemeiro and Ericsen? Yes
9. Do we currently have the money in the bank for transfers as of April 24th ? No
10. Will we pay the credit line set up for transfers by End of July - Yes
11. Does ETH actually want him ? - After yesterday I’d say 100% Yes
12. Can John Murtourgh start the process even with the clubs ownership not confirmed ? Yes he can start and state we should be able to sanction the transfer in early July
13. Whom ever buys Man united between July and August 23, is it fair that they will agree to the signing of Moses Caciedo for the club. ? Yes
14 . Do we think we can get a deal done upfront cash for £85M ? Yes
Have you really simplified the process for us with this post? :D

I was thinking..1. buy Caicedo.
 

Red4Life_#7

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Every time I have seen him he stands out against our midfielders. His off the ball aggression, acceleration and workrate are phenomenal. He is actually what we need.

Also don't count out Real Madrid, they make things happen. Plus they need to replace Casemiro.
 

Andre Kagawa

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Every time I have seen him he stands out against our midfielders. His off the ball aggression, acceleration and workrate are phenomenal. He is actually what we need.

Also don't count out Real Madrid, they make things happen. Plus they need to replace Casemiro.
They have replaced him many times over, with both Camavinga and Tchouameni
 

daba

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They have replaced him many times over, with both Camavinga and Tchouameni
Yep, no way he goes there this summer. Unless Camavinga becomes a permanent LB (which I doubt he wants to do) or either him or Tchouameni flop in the coming years, it’s hard to see how he’ll fit in their side for the foreseeable.
 

Andre Kagawa

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Yep, no way he goes there this summer. Unless Camavinga becomes a permanent LB (which I doubt he wants to do) or either him or Tchouameni flop in the coming years, it’s hard to see how he’ll fit in their side for the foreseeable.
Indeed, there's no way. Camavinga is no LB, and more importantly, was not bought as a LB. They're stacked in CDM.
 

daba

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Indeed, there's no way. Camavinga is no LB, and more importantly, was not bought as a LB. They're stacked in CDM.
Tbf the way the game is shifting to this inverted fullback trend Camavinga has all the tools to play there, maybe less so as traditional LB or LWB.
 

Godfather

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Wasn't he the player where we used the ridiculous excuse of not being able to handle 2 agents so we didn't bother? Or am I thinking of someone else here?
 
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