Yagami
Good post resistant
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2013
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Now this could be an interesting poll.Beating city in the Cup Final is more important than finishing in the top 4.
I'd take winning the FA Cup final vs City over top 4 any day.
Now this could be an interesting poll.Beating city in the Cup Final is more important than finishing in the top 4.
Logically top 4 should be paramount but, if we are in the position to stop a City treble, then maybe it’s worth it.Now this could be an interesting poll.
I'd take winning the FA Cup final vs City over top 4 any day.
Don't think this is how it went down. They turned on him when he decided to throw a hissy fit when the club (wrongly, IMO) decided to not back him more after the 2nd place finish. It was a bad move by the club but Jose abandoned his job to get himself fired.People turned on Mourinho after he managed EL and second place. Fans also turned on Ole after his shitty season. Same will happen with ETH.
If we dont get top 4, lesser players will come and same shit will happen. He is far from the level of Pep and Klopp too, nothing proves he is even close.
Meh Eddie Howe has done more for Newcastle with lesser players and budget. De Zerbi the same for Brighton while losing Trossard. He's done well but if he fails to get top 4 then he is a failure and should be sacked.
It helps when you have competent higher ups, and don't wait till the last month of the transfer season to actually start doing their work. Fairly certain if we had Newcastle's upper management, we would have saved at least 40 million on Antony alone, but hey let's put the club's ineptitude in the transfer market on Ten Hag.Nope. They have a net spent of 156M (total spent of 164M), United have a net spent of 203M (total spent of 215M). We also started with a far better squad (3.6 average position in the last 3 years for us compared to 12 for Newcastle).
https://www.squawka.com/en/premier-league-net-spend-2022-23/
Hate to break to you mate, but we aren't even close to Real, Barca or City. We've dropped down at least 1 tier if not 2 in the last 6-7 years. The only thing keeping us relevant is our commercial success. Once the money dries out, it's not going to look pretty.You've hit the nail right on the head. The aim for every top club ( Man Utd, City, Real, Barca etc) should always to be the best team in the land. Trophies should be a consequence of being the best, not an isolated occurrence. I mean Leicester won the FA Cup 2 years ago and they are about to be relegated. The reason being that win was not a result of sustained excellence, but rather a result of 6-7 good games
My biggest gripe with the club ( and this comes back to the owners at the end of the day and something Gary Neville keeps repeating but people keep making fun of him) is that Utd have lost the desire to have sustained excellence and become dependent on finding a fix for each season/situation as it comes along. Winning the League Cup or Europa League is not indicative of sustained excellence. As you say we need players and staff who are going to be excellent 30-31 out of 38 games. We just don't have that personnel and unless the leadership of this club pulls in that direction, we aren't ever going to be back to the top.
The things I factor in are:Logically top 4 should be paramount but, if we are in the position to stop a City treble, then maybe it’s worth it.
Literally beat them this season.It helps when you have competent higher ups, and don't wait till the last month of the transfer season to actually start doing their work. Fairly certain if we had Newcastle's upper management, we would have saved at least 40 million on Antony alone, but hey let's put the club's ineptitude in the transfer market on Ten Hag.
Hate to break to you mate, but we aren't even close to Real, Barca or City. We've dropped down at least 1 tier if not 2 in the last 6-7 years. The only thing keeping us relevant is our commercial success. Once the money dries out, it's not going to look pretty.
the previous poster was talking about Eddie Howe overall spend, since he came in Nov 2021, he has spent more than Utd:Nope. They have a net spent of 156M (total spent of 164M), United have a net spent of 203M (total spent of 215M). We also started with a far better squad (3.6 average position in the last 3 years for us compared to 12 for Newcastle).
https://www.squawka.com/en/premier-league-net-spend-2022-23/
5 years time, nobody remembers where we finished this season. If we stop them ba**ards winning The Treble, we'll be talking about it for decades like my parents talk about the 77 Cup final against Liverpool when we did the same thing to them.Now this could be an interesting poll.
I'd take winning the FA Cup final vs City over top 4 any day.
Not just beat them, we outclassed them across two games.Literally beat them this season.
But apparently we aren't even close to them.Not just beat them, we outclassed them across two games.
Short term memory loss with some people in fairness.Literally beat them this season.
Erm that's exactly what I said....It helps when you have competent higher ups, and don't wait till the last month of the transfer season to actually start doing their work. Fairly certain if we had Newcastle's upper management, we would have saved at least 40 million on Antony alone, but hey let's put the club's ineptitude in the transfer market on Ten Hag.
Hate to break to you mate, but we aren't even close to Real, Barca or City. We've dropped down at least 1 tier if not 2 in the last 6-7 years. The only thing keeping us relevant is our commercial success. Once the money dries out, it's not going to look pretty.
I have supported this club since 1963, and yes, I hate what we have become.Strange that "New members" always seem to hate our football club. Calling us lucky for winning the league cup is a joke of a way to be posting. Is it luck we are in the FA cup final as well? If we carry on being as lucky with Ten Hag we will be lucky right up to winning the Champions League.
Complain about our shit tier away performances if you like, and for sure the players mentality, when we've gone behind in games we've lost our heads big time but we've done extemely well in all the cups. Even the Sevilla game was a freak really, down to 10 men through injuries to all our defence etc and deflected own goals... Yeah.
Ten Hag has generally sent teams out that have dominated the beginning of matches. Even Vs city, Barcelona, Arsenal, Sevilla etc. It's been mental strength that's let us down. MAYBE that comes from the manager, but I think that's more a player problem now.
At full strength we beat both those teams this season at home. Vaguely agree with the sentiment in that our strength in depth is shocking, we have serious weaknesses in our first 11, and that we need strengthening in the summer because we should be under no illusions that this team could win the league.Hate to break to you mate, but we aren't even close to Barca or City. .
Did Mou show Ability and willingness?? He threw his job on the line , because he knew the squad wouldnt fulfill what was needed. He also managed to get 2nd and win a good cup. He maybe wasnt the right fit for our club, but nobody has done what he has done post Fergie. If ETH fails top 4 he isnt even close to Mourinho. And that with better players and more fundsDon't think this is how it went down. They turned on him when he decided to throw a hissy fit when the club (wrongly, IMO) decided to not back him more after the 2nd place finish. It was a bad move by the club but Jose abandoned his job to get himself fired.
As far as ETH, he is not on their level, no. But he's the first manager we've had post-Fergie who has shown signs of ability and willingness to take on the massive task of managing this club under our current owners. It hasn't been perfect and may yet end in falling short. But for a first year manager in a new league, coming to a club in the absolute pits, he's shown he's worth backing further to give him a chance to compete against the best managers in the league. We've come a long way under him already.
It's not though. We have some good players in our first team, but we also have a large amount of players who don't have the bottle or talent to be anywhere near top 4. Players who actively hide from the ball, pull out of challenges and take the safe option 90% of the time. It's ingrained in some of these players and that's a problem that is very difficult to work around.We don't have a diabolical squad. It's considerably better than the likes of Brighton and Newcastle, yet their manager is getting more than they should from their squad.
Go back to the beginning of this season and nobody has Newcastle down for third place. The likes of Longstaff were a joke on here. The rest not even worthy of discussion. Now look.It's not though. We have some good players in our first team, but we also have a large amount of players who don't have the bottle or talent to be anywhere near top 4. Players who actively hide from the ball, pull out of challenges and take the safe option 90% of the time. It's ingrained in some of these players and that's a problem that is very difficult to work around.
They were miles better than us at Old Trafford and should have liked the tie in the first half alone. We were better at Nou Camp.Not just beat them, we outclassed them across two games.
They were better than us in the first half in OT but once we took Wout off at HT and got some speed and mobility upfront, I thought we murdered Barca in the 2nd half. We won the 2nd half 2-0.They were miles better than us at Old Trafford and should have liked the tie in the first half alone. We were better at Nou Camp.
Not just beat them, we outclassed them across two games.
But apparently we aren't even close to them.
It's incredible we have been reduced to one game win merchants. .Short term memory loss with some people in fairness.
Honestly can't tell what's your point here. There's no manager that competes for the league in season one.It's incredible we have been reduced to one game win merchants. .
So using this analogy, Brighton did us twice this season home and away, what does that say about us and Brighton being better than us? In the grand scheme of things Barca will have a better season than us, they will win the league. Winning any game in a cup competition doesn't mean much if you can't win the main prize at the final. Meaning, winning all games then losing at the final doesn't say much about you. So us eliminating Barca then being eliminated by Sevilla doesn't make United a 'better' team or having a 'better season'.
The main reasons we give, for us not being able to beat Sevilla in 2 legs might be the same reasons Barca fans might say for them not beating United in 2 legs. As you can see, it's a preservation fulfilling narrative for the fans.
Until we win the league, and champions league ( which comes second), remember Liverpool last season, everything else is a smoke screen.
Teams which were in wilderness like AC Milan have won a league title, competing in UCL semifinal, Napoli have won the title competing in UCL quarter finals. Now that's genuine tangible progress. While us United have never been involved in a title race in 10 years but always say we are progressing.
As I said before, Genuine progress will be visible and acceptable by all fans. Ask any City fan or Arsenal fan if they doubt the direction their club is taking ( those teams have won nothing as at now) 99.9% will give you a positive feedback. Ask any AC Milan or Napoli fans they will have positive feedback. Come to United there is always a cloud of doubt, and tellingly we have never competed for a major title in 10 years.
Good football and genuine progress will be rewarded by major titles or competing for the said title. You don't have to win every major titles but you must compete for them.
The poster says we are a long way from Barca yet to argue his point posters have pointed out we beat them thereby meaning we are not ‘a long way‘ from them. It’s really that simple. The point was to answer his question.It's incredible we have been reduced to one game win merchants. .
So using this analogy, Brighton did us twice this season home and away, what does that say about us and Brighton being better than us? In the grand scheme of things Barca will have a better season than us, they will win the league. Winning any game in a cup competition doesn't mean much if you can't win the main prize at the final. Meaning, winning all games then losing at the final doesn't say much about you. So us eliminating Barca then being eliminated by Sevilla doesn't make United a 'better' team or having a 'better season'.
The main reasons we give, for us not being able to beat Sevilla in 2 legs might be the same reasons Barca fans might say for them not beating United in 2 legs. As you can see, it's a preservation fulfilling narrative for the fans.
Until we win the league, and champions league ( which comes second), remember Liverpool last season, everything else is a smoke screen.
Teams which were in wilderness like AC Milan have won a league title, competing in UCL semifinal, Napoli have won the title competing in UCL quarter finals. Now that's genuine tangible progress. While us United have never been involved in a title race in 10 years but always say we are progressing.
As I said before, Genuine progress will be visible and acceptable by all fans. Ask any City fan or Arsenal fan if they doubt the direction their club is taking ( those teams have won nothing as at now) 99.9% will give you a positive feedback. Ask any AC Milan or Napoli fans they will have positive feedback. Come to United there is always a cloud of doubt, and tellingly we have never competed for a major title in 10 years.
Good football and genuine progress will be rewarded by major titles or competing for the said title. You don't have to win every major titles but you must compete for them.
Eh? not that I agree with the thrust of this thread at all, but Conte, Mourinho and Ancelotii all won the title with Chelsea in their first seasons off the top of my head.Honestly can't tell what's your point here. There's no manager that competes for the league in season one.
Clough, Ramsey, Mourinho.Honestly can't tell what's your point here. There's no manager that competes for the league in season one.
Ancelotti, Conte, Pellegrini won it too in their first year. Also Mourinho competed for it in his second Chelsea spell.Clough, Ramsey, Mourinho.
yes my bad what I meant is the current premier league with the behemoth city are. I can't see anyone coming in now and winning the league in 1st season (not with a squad that barely finished 6th).Eh? not that I agree with the thrust of this thread at all, but Conte, Mourinho and Ancelotii all won the title with Chelsea in their first seasons off the top of my head.
Im sure there are plenty more who have competed.
Progress is top 4 finish and winning a trophy in the same season. Something United haven't done for a decade. Have to walk before you can run..It's incredible we have been reduced to one game win merchants. .
So using this analogy, Brighton did us twice this season home and away, what does that say about us and Brighton being better than us? In the grand scheme of things Barca will have a better season than us, they will win the league. Winning any game in a cup competition doesn't mean much if you can't win the main prize at the final. Meaning, winning all games then losing at the final doesn't say much about you. So us eliminating Barca then being eliminated by Sevilla doesn't make United a 'better' team or having a 'better season'.
The main reasons we give, for us not being able to beat Sevilla in 2 legs might be the same reasons Barca fans might say for them not beating United in 2 legs. As you can see, it's a preservation fulfilling narrative for the fans.
Until we win the league, and champions league ( which comes second), remember Liverpool last season, everything else is a smoke screen.
Teams which were in wilderness like AC Milan have won a league title, competing in UCL semifinal, Napoli have won the title competing in UCL quarter finals. Now that's genuine tangible progress. While us United have never been involved in a title race in 10 years but always say we are progressing.
As I said before, Genuine progress will be visible and acceptable by all fans. Ask any City fan or Arsenal fan if they doubt the direction their club is taking ( those teams have won nothing as at now) 99.9% will give you a positive feedback. Ask any AC Milan or Napoli fans they will have positive feedback. Come to United there is always a cloud of doubt, and tellingly we have never competed for a major title in 10 years.
Good football and genuine progress will be rewarded by major titles or competing for the said title. You don't have to win every major titles but you must compete for them.
I think based on his time with us and since, it's clear that Jose's best days are behind him. Same was true of LVG. ETH likely won't ever reach Jose's heights but that doesn't mean he won't be better for our club than 2016-2019 Mourinho. I think he's shown so far that he is capable and his best days should be ahead not behind himDid Mou show Ability and willingness?? He threw his job on the line , because he knew the squad wouldnt fulfill what was needed. He also managed to get 2nd and win a good cup. He maybe wasnt the right fit for our club, but nobody has done what he has done post Fergie. If ETH fails top 4 he isnt even close to Mourinho. And that with better players and more funds