Now this could be an interesting poll.
I'd take winning the FA Cup final vs City over top 4 any day.
Should Ten Hag get the sack if he fails to qualify for the CL?
- Thread starter Idxomer
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I'd take winning the FA Cup final vs City over top 4 any day.
Logically top 4 should be paramount but, if we are in the position to stop a City treble, then maybe it’s worth it.
Don't think this is how it went down. They turned on him when he decided to throw a hissy fit when the club (wrongly, IMO) decided to not back him more after the 2nd place finish. It was a bad move by the club but Jose abandoned his job to get himself fired.
As far as ETH, he is not on their level, no. But he's the first manager we've had post-Fergie who has shown signs of ability and willingness to take on the massive task of managing this club under our current owners. It hasn't been perfect and may yet end in falling short. But for a first year manager in a new league, coming to a club in the absolute pits, he's shown he's worth backing further to give him a chance to compete against the best managers in the league. We've come a long way under him already.
It helps when you have competent higher ups, and don't wait till the last month of the transfer season to actually start doing their work. Fairly certain if we had Newcastle's upper management, we would have saved at least 40 million on Antony alone, but hey let's put the club's ineptitude in the transfer market on Ten Hag.
Hate to break to you mate, but we aren't even close to Real, Barca or City. We've dropped down at least 1 tier if not 2 in the last 6-7 years. The only thing keeping us relevant is our commercial success. Once the money dries out, it's not going to look pretty.
The things I factor in are:
As you say, stopping a potential City treble. Though, even if they weren't on course for one (say Madrid knock them out), winning a derby in a final will be amazing.
Also, I don't think top 4 is the be all and end all. Being realistic, we're not going to win the CL next year, and we can still build a title challenging team outside of it. City did it in the early 2010s, Liverpool did it, Arsenal are doing it now. There are plenty of press resistant players out there we can buy without champions league football. We just have to actually use our scouts.
Literally beat them this season.
the previous poster was talking about Eddie Howe overall spend, since he came in Nov 2021, he has spent more than Utd:
https://www.planetfootball.com/quic...-league-table-since-takeover-sales-transfers/
I just don't understand the logic of sacking a manager if you feel there is progress and that you could see progress with more support. Immediate achievements aren't so important because like... If you see room for improvement with the same manager, then why sack? Is there a better manager out there who could provide a higher ceiling? Do you think he's reached his ceiling? Do you think the squad has turned on the manager? The issue with Mourinho and Ole was that they pretty much hit their peaks and things were getting worse despite multiple windows, tons of money invested, squad lost belief in him etc. Ten hag very clearly has tons of room to grow with us just with more coaching and addressing problem positions, and I think the squad clearly has full belief (especially as we've, you know, had a successful season). Let's see how we look as we address problem positions.
5 years time, nobody remembers where we finished this season. If we stop them ba**ards winning The Treble, we'll be talking about it for decades like my parents talk about the 77 Cup final against Liverpool when we did the same thing to them.
It's a big moment for Ten Hag. A bad performance and result, then in my opinion, he's under a lot of pressure next season. That's regardless of whether we finish in the top 4 or not.
Not just beat them, we outclassed them across two games.Literally beat them this season.
The UTD squad was flawed from the start of the season, without a proper striker (Martial is never fit and Ronaldo a hindrance). Despite that, when he had a fit squad, he was playing generally pretty good football, and getting good results. The october till february period so to say. Then, the squad got even thinner with some key injuries and casemiro suspensions, and the results and style of play dropped a few levels. sacking EtH would be absolutely bonkers
But apparently we aren't even close to them.
Short term memory loss with some people in fairness.Literally beat them this season.
Erm that's exactly what I said....
I have supported this club since 1963, and yes, I hate what we have become.
At full strength we beat both those teams this season at home. Vaguely agree with the sentiment in that our strength in depth is shocking, we have serious weaknesses in our first 11, and that we need strengthening in the summer because we should be under no illusions that this team could win the league.
But is Ten Hag really one of those weaknesses? Could any other manager have gotten to both domestic cup finals with the squad we have? I'm not sure. You can make a case he's not spent the summer funds wisely I think because Antony isn't even as good as Garnacho in my opinion, but he's got Garnacho to sign a new contract so thats something.
Did Mou show Ability and willingness?? He threw his job on the line , because he knew the squad wouldnt fulfill what was needed. He also managed to get 2nd and win a good cup. He maybe wasnt the right fit for our club, but nobody has done what he has done post Fergie. If ETH fails top 4 he isnt even close to Mourinho. And that with better players and more funds
It's not though. We have some good players in our first team, but we also have a large amount of players who don't have the bottle or talent to be anywhere near top 4. Players who actively hide from the ball, pull out of challenges and take the safe option 90% of the time. It's ingrained in some of these players and that's a problem that is very difficult to work around.
Go back to the beginning of this season and nobody has Newcastle down for third place. The likes of Longstaff were a joke on here. The rest not even worthy of discussion. Now look.
We have some very good players who are underperforming, some other decent players who would probably go to a club like Newcastle and be part of a unit that performs better. I'm not saying our squad is amazing, but it's better than other clubs who are, pound for pound in terms of talent, doing far better than us. When Eddie Howe goes to a failing Newcastle team and transforms them instantly, that shows how a team can be transformed by a manager who creates a well functioning unit, rather than bemoaning a lack of quality and expecting 3 years with £100m's of investment.
They were miles better than us at Old Trafford and should have liked the tie in the first half alone. We were better at Nou Camp.
They were better than us in the first half in OT but once we took Wout off at HT and got some speed and mobility upfront, I thought we murdered Barca in the 2nd half. We won the 2nd half 2-0.
I thought that would have been the moment the penny dropped with Erik that picking Wout is holding the team back but no, he still persists with him with alarming, and unfathomable, regularity.
He should not but I think he would. Not the first time some of our "important" players downed tool when the manager face the sack.
He may not get the time to build a team in his vision if we blow top 4 after it looked so positive around a month ago
Wasn’t backed in the January transfers
Martinez and Varane out doesn’t help, with Shaw having to play LCB
Casemiro keeps getting red carded, and we have noone to replace him
Squad lacks depth, now we see the main players tiring out
That’s supposed to warrant a sacking?
Yes, he’s made some terrible subs. Being in 4 competitions for a while requires squad rotation. Unfortunately he doesn’t have Pep’s bench quality.
Martinez and Varane out doesn’t help, with Shaw having to play LCB
Casemiro keeps getting red carded, and we have noone to replace him
Squad lacks depth, now we see the main players tiring out
That’s supposed to warrant a sacking?
Yes, he’s made some terrible subs. Being in 4 competitions for a while requires squad rotation. Unfortunately he doesn’t have Pep’s bench quality.
It's a no from me.
IMO if we hadn't of lost Martinez we would have already sealed top 4.
Shame Shame Shame of a thread he is doing a.great job.
IMO if we hadn't of lost Martinez we would have already sealed top 4.
Shame Shame Shame of a thread he is doing a.great job.
Obviously not, I still have faith in this guy regardless of where we finish. Next season though it will be different.
It's incredible we have been reduced to one game win merchants.
.So using this analogy, Brighton did us twice this season home and away, what does that say about us and Brighton being better than us? In the grand scheme of things Barca will have a better season than us, they will win the league. Winning any game in a cup competition doesn't mean much if you can't win the main prize at the final. Meaning, winning all games then losing at the final doesn't say much about you. So us eliminating Barca then being eliminated by Sevilla doesn't make United a 'better' team or having a 'better season'.
The main reasons we give, for us not being able to beat Sevilla in 2 legs might be the same reasons Barca fans might say for them not beating United in 2 legs. As you can see, it's a preservation fulfilling narrative for the fans.
Until we win the league, and champions league ( which comes second), remember Liverpool last season, everything else is a smoke screen.
Teams which were in wilderness like AC Milan have won a league title, competing in UCL semifinal, Napoli have won the title competing in UCL quarter finals. Now that's genuine tangible progress. While us United have never been involved in a title race in 10 years but always say we are progressing.
As I said before, Genuine progress will be visible and acceptable by all fans. Ask any City fan or Arsenal fan if they doubt the direction their club is taking ( those teams have won nothing as at now) 99.9% will give you a positive feedback. Ask any AC Milan or Napoli fans they will have positive feedback. Come to United there is always a cloud of doubt, and tellingly we have never competed for a major title in 10 years.
Good football and genuine progress will be rewarded by major titles or competing for the said title. You don't have to win every major titles but you must compete for them.
Honestly can't tell what's your point here. There's no manager that competes for the league in season one.It's incredible we have been reduced to one game win merchants.
So using this analogy, Brighton did us twice this season home and away, what does that say about us and Brighton being better than us? In the grand scheme of things Barca will have a better season than us, they will win the league. Winning any game in a cup competition doesn't mean much if you can't win the main prize at the final. Meaning, winning all games then losing at the final doesn't say much about you. So us eliminating Barca then being eliminated by Sevilla doesn't make United a 'better' team or having a 'better season'.
The main reasons we give, for us not being able to beat Sevilla in 2 legs might be the same reasons Barca fans might say for them not beating United in 2 legs. As you can see, it's a preservation fulfilling narrative for the fans.
Until we win the league, and champions league ( which comes second), remember Liverpool last season, everything else is a smoke screen.
Teams which were in wilderness like AC Milan have won a league title, competing in UCL semifinal, Napoli have won the title competing in UCL quarter finals. Now that's genuine tangible progress. While us United have never been involved in a title race in 10 years but always say we are progressing.
As I said before, Genuine progress will be visible and acceptable by all fans. Ask any City fan or Arsenal fan if they doubt the direction their club is taking ( those teams have won nothing as at now) 99.9% will give you a positive feedback. Ask any AC Milan or Napoli fans they will have positive feedback. Come to United there is always a cloud of doubt, and tellingly we have never competed for a major title in 10 years.
Good football and genuine progress will be rewarded by major titles or competing for the said title. You don't have to win every major titles but you must compete for them.
The poster says we are a long way from Barca yet to argue his point posters have pointed out we beat them thereby meaning we are not ‘a long way‘ from them. It’s really that simple. The point was to answer his question.It's incredible we have been reduced to one game win merchants.
So using this analogy, Brighton did us twice this season home and away, what does that say about us and Brighton being better than us? In the grand scheme of things Barca will have a better season than us, they will win the league. Winning any game in a cup competition doesn't mean much if you can't win the main prize at the final. Meaning, winning all games then losing at the final doesn't say much about you. So us eliminating Barca then being eliminated by Sevilla doesn't make United a 'better' team or having a 'better season'.
The main reasons we give, for us not being able to beat Sevilla in 2 legs might be the same reasons Barca fans might say for them not beating United in 2 legs. As you can see, it's a preservation fulfilling narrative for the fans.
Until we win the league, and champions league ( which comes second), remember Liverpool last season, everything else is a smoke screen.
Teams which were in wilderness like AC Milan have won a league title, competing in UCL semifinal, Napoli have won the title competing in UCL quarter finals. Now that's genuine tangible progress. While us United have never been involved in a title race in 10 years but always say we are progressing.
As I said before, Genuine progress will be visible and acceptable by all fans. Ask any City fan or Arsenal fan if they doubt the direction their club is taking ( those teams have won nothing as at now) 99.9% will give you a positive feedback. Ask any AC Milan or Napoli fans they will have positive feedback. Come to United there is always a cloud of doubt, and tellingly we have never competed for a major title in 10 years.
Good football and genuine progress will be rewarded by major titles or competing for the said title. You don't have to win every major titles but you must compete for them.
What on earth is this thread about.... The improvement in the playing style and the players is miles ahead of last year. You can't rebuild an entire squad on a limited budget in one year. Anyone who think ETH should be sacked needs to stop calling themselves a fan.
No voters
Yes voters
Yes voters
Eh? not that I agree with the thrust of this thread at all, but Conte, Mourinho and Ancelotii all won the title with Chelsea in their first seasons off the top of my head.
Im sure there are plenty more who have competed.
No, the Glazers should be sacked for forcing him to play without a striker.
No , but missing out on top 4 really would sour the whole season and call into question any real progress.
But a Manager needs more than one year in a club as dysfunctional as Man Utd is right now.
But a Manager needs more than one year in a club as dysfunctional as Man Utd is right now.
Clough, Ramsey, Mourinho.
Ancelotti, Conte, Pellegrini won it too in their first year. Also Mourinho competed for it in his second Chelsea spell.
My point is not that I think that he should be given the sack, merely that at a more ruthless club like Chelsea in their pomp, he would be out of the door by now. Abramovich was never shy of sacking what he saw as failure and judging by the trophy tally in his years compared to ours, his style is measurably better for the current climate.
yes my bad what I meant is the current premier league with the behemoth city are. I can't see anyone coming in now and winning the league in 1st season (not with a squad that barely finished 6th).
Progress is top 4 finish and winning a trophy in the same season. Something United haven't done for a decade. Have to walk before you can run..It's incredible we have been reduced to one game win merchants.
So using this analogy, Brighton did us twice this season home and away, what does that say about us and Brighton being better than us? In the grand scheme of things Barca will have a better season than us, they will win the league. Winning any game in a cup competition doesn't mean much if you can't win the main prize at the final. Meaning, winning all games then losing at the final doesn't say much about you. So us eliminating Barca then being eliminated by Sevilla doesn't make United a 'better' team or having a 'better season'.
The main reasons we give, for us not being able to beat Sevilla in 2 legs might be the same reasons Barca fans might say for them not beating United in 2 legs. As you can see, it's a preservation fulfilling narrative for the fans.
Until we win the league, and champions league ( which comes second), remember Liverpool last season, everything else is a smoke screen.
Teams which were in wilderness like AC Milan have won a league title, competing in UCL semifinal, Napoli have won the title competing in UCL quarter finals. Now that's genuine tangible progress. While us United have never been involved in a title race in 10 years but always say we are progressing.
As I said before, Genuine progress will be visible and acceptable by all fans. Ask any City fan or Arsenal fan if they doubt the direction their club is taking ( those teams have won nothing as at now) 99.9% will give you a positive feedback. Ask any AC Milan or Napoli fans they will have positive feedback. Come to United there is always a cloud of doubt, and tellingly we have never competed for a major title in 10 years.
Good football and genuine progress will be rewarded by major titles or competing for the said title. You don't have to win every major titles but you must compete for them.
Lack of consistency especially away has been Uniteds main issue this year. Hectic schedule list has taken its toll. Knocking Barcelona out of Europe and beating the likes of Arsenal and Man City in Old Trafford shows what this United team are capable of when at their best.
I think based on his time with us and since, it's clear that Jose's best days are behind him. Same was true of LVG. ETH likely won't ever reach Jose's heights but that doesn't mean he won't be better for our club than 2016-2019 Mourinho. I think he's shown so far that he is capable and his best days should be ahead not behind him
As far as funds, Mourinho spent significantly to get that second place where we never really contended for the title after the first half of the season.