Of course. He's entitled to push for a good contract. My point remains that he doesn't deserve significantly more than Reece James, who is a better and more important player. This is apparently the hang-up in negotiations - Mount was offered a contract on par with James months ago.
Mason Mount | Confirmed
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James may well be a more important player, when fit.
But given that Mount is obviously more reliable in terms of fitness than James (even taking into account his recent injuries) it hardly seems outlandish that he should want more.
Well that's entirely unreasonable and Chelsea are well within their rights to sell him then. I'd rather sell Mount than pay him 300k per week, especially if we're playing a 4-2-3-1 next year as is Poch's wont.
I had always thought of him as a midfielder, who played in different roles/out wide but by the time he was at Newcastle, he was comfortably in mostly central/midfield positions. @KirkDuyt may have a better idea.
Fred is not a deep lying defensive midfielder but he is a defensive player, who creates transitions with his break up play and box to box off the ball work. Whilst Mount works hard, I don't think he's going to replicate that and he's not going to help control possession by getting on the ball and tempo setting i.e something we desperately need when evading the press, bringing the ball out from the back and against deep set defences; he may not have to if ETH has other ideas/tactics but as a 8, I personally think it's a really underwhelming signing when they are other options/profile of players available for less.
He's not bad to have but it's makes very little sense to actually actively pursue and use funds for. Hopefully it's just transfer bollocks.
Why would a manager waste his time scouting a player he could never afford when there’s many other players in lower leagues he could scout and easily afford?
We shouldn’t be signing either, let alone both
The standard required in Holland and the PL is totally different. The GK is a no brainer - we need one who can help dominate the ball either way. My point is that the RB then needs to freaking outstanding on the ball if this is the way we’ll set up.
Alvarez has less passing attempts and less passing progressive in Eredivise in 21/22 season is down to manager's instruction. The instruction to tell player to play more simple isn't affected by the standard required in Holland and PL.
I always believe we need new RB anyway. Even before ETH's first match last year, I had said this before that ETH demands his defenders and keeper to be very good on the ball to be able to progress the ball from the back. That's his priority what he expects in his defense so your point about RB hasn't change my point at all.
I always believe we need new RB anyway. Even before ETH's first match last year, I had said this before that ETH demands his defenders and keeper to be very good on the ball to be able to progress the ball from the back. That's his priority what he expects in his defense so your point about RB hasn't change my point at all.
This is such a tiring notion, particularly with regard to ETH's interest in Mount. Unless I'm mistaken, Mount played one season in the Eridivise, which means ETH will have faced Mount approximately the same number of times that he's faced premiership players such as James Ward Prowse (or any other player in the premiership.) I get that he likely had a certain comfort level with the likes of Martinez and Antony, a familiarity with Malacia, and really wanted to sign FDJ (who wouldn't?), but I trust ETH to not be so myopic when it comes to transfer targets.
Matt Law said that's not the case and Mount didn't ask for 300k.
https://tribuna.com/en/news/chelsea...000aweek-wages-for-new-chelsea-deal-matt-law/
Mount is not anywhere close to James in quality or importance to the team. Mount is a decent - good player, James is elite player when fit.
Also I wouldn't trust these Chelsea journalists, they do lot of pr shit on behalf of club, especially the new guy who posts articles coming out of Boehly's arse.
Also Matt Law confirmed that Mount didn't ask for 300k, which is significantly less than Sterling wages and maybe Koulibaly too (if we go by Italian reports)
Also I wouldn't trust these Chelsea journalists, they do lot of pr shit on behalf of club, especially the new guy who posts articles coming out of Boehly's arse.
Also Matt Law confirmed that Mount didn't ask for 300k, which is significantly less than Sterling wages and maybe Koulibaly too (if we go by Italian reports)
Good summary of where we are with Mount, I’d say.
If we had an otherwise settled midfield and fancied bolstering it with some homegrown cover for Bruno then great. I’m not convinced, though.
Wijnaldum started out as a winger, but it became clear quite quickly that he wasnt going very far there. He lacked the speed and 1 on 1 to really shine there. You can get away with that in our league, but if I remember correctly he was already in the center of midfield at PSV.
Nemanja Matic was also a left winger in the Eredivisie once upon a time. Seeing him play now, imagining Matic on the wing is even weirder.
As for Mount, I don't watch him enough, but he seems an okay player, but not fantastic. And he looks a bit weak for the Wijnaldum/ Matic role, but I could well be wrong.
For me it's a but clear what Ten Hag wants to do. Alot of posters prefer a midfielder that will help in the build up like a De Jong, but looking at the type of midfielders we've been linked with - Bellingham, Mount, Mac Allister, Veiga, Kokcu, Kovacic, Rabiot etc. It's clear ETH is looking for an advanced 8 that will contribute more to the attack than build up like Gravenberch did.Signing Mount means we might see a different system next season because ETH and the scouting team couldn’t find the right player that fits FDJ profile. Instead of playing with 4231 double pivot, ETH might play 433 with one no 6 and two no 8. We see this changing formation in his Ajax team when FDJ left.
The following below is when Ajax had the possession and start their build up play vs Dortmund in 2021/2022 season. You can see that Gravenberch is nowhere near in Ajax build up play phase to progress the ball. It‘s the keeper, two CB, a DM, and the two full backs the ones who got involved in this and if ETH uses this same system then we will rely on those 6 positions to retain possession or recycle the ball. Among these 6 players, Alvarez is the one being assigned to play more simple passes and doesn’t get involved on the ball often (see below stats), this suitable to Casemiro who is not a press resistance so I think we will see a different role in Casemiro next season in comparison to this season.
I think our build up and attacking transition will be something like this:
GK
Varane Martinez
Casemiro
RB —————— Shaw
Antony - Mount - Bruno - Rashford
ST
Bruno and Mount will play in Berghuis and Gravenberch role. Our full backs will cover the half space and sometime swap position with the wingers. So this is where I see Mount might be perfect to play in this set up and system because we will get to utilise his strength to do high press, scoring goals and assists.
I took pictures of these FBref end of last season so this is based on 21/22 season.
The links with progressive defenders like Kim and Todibo would also suggest that ETH plans to use the defenders to build up play like that of the 2020 Ajax team. One thing that doesn't make sense is him wanting De Gea to stay and also the links to Frimpong as he is not a right back who is involved much in the build up
Nah, he's better than Fred, but that's a very low bar to be starting from.
Personally, I don't think he's all that, but I can see why ETH would want a player with his versatility in the squad.
Thanks for the extra context, very relevant and useful to the discussion.
However, I disagree that paying big money means automatic starting places every game. If we get Mount for say £45m, that’s, I believe less than what we paid for Fred, Martial, Sancho, probably others, who can remember? These guys are in and out of the team, depending on tactics, fitness, form etc. None of them were first names on the team sheet. Mount may prove to be a good fit but he’s not, imo, obviously good enough to be in our default first choice XI. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t buy him and doesn’t mean we shouldn’t pay “big” money. In the modern game he wouldn’t be seen as back up he’d be seen as a first team squad player, like everyone else bar a few nailed on starters - Casemiro, Varane, Martinez, Bruno and Rashford.
Rice is a different proposition, I’d say. He would cost more and, you’d have to think that we’d only buy him if intending to play him most games. Having said that, we broke the transfer record to get Keane and played him a few different positions, rotated him somewhat, for a year or so.
Was just watching Ornstein on Sky Sports News and he said Chelsea have until June 30th to sell players as they’re in need due to FFP and homegrown players work out as 100% profit on the balance sheet so it’s Chelsea that need to push deals through quickly rather than us.
I struggle to see who Chelsea can realistically move on to generate money for FFP as like us they offer big wages which make it hard to move players on but with June 30th a month away their need will get greater to sell, they might want £50-£60 million but they won’t get it and if we’re patient with this whilst working on our own needs i.e a striker, partner for Casemiro and a keeper we could go in for Mount nearer the June 30th deadline and get him cheap especially if he wants to join us as Ornstein said.
I struggle to see who Chelsea can realistically move on to generate money for FFP as like us they offer big wages which make it hard to move players on but with June 30th a month away their need will get greater to sell, they might want £50-£60 million but they won’t get it and if we’re patient with this whilst working on our own needs i.e a striker, partner for Casemiro and a keeper we could go in for Mount nearer the June 30th deadline and get him cheap especially if he wants to join us as Ornstein said.
Don't want at all. Certainly not for more than £20. Average player, bit of a flat-track bully, Chelsea clearly need to sell and he clearly wants to leave. If we were selling him under those circumstances, he'd be going for free or as good as. We're mugs if we pay serious money.
One of the reasons we have been so porous is so many away games is that Eriksen position. Mount isn't the guy to fix it and him playing there with Casemiro behind and Bruno ahead will not allow us to control game better than now.
I do get the feeling though that a lot of these talks are heavily influenced by his agent.
I do get the feeling though that a lot of these talks are heavily influenced by his agent.
We could use flat track bullies...
He has a better engine and more durability than Eriksen and is better defensively, with pressing etc. He’s better off the ball but not as good on the ball of course. He could make us a bit tighter through the middle but we’d lose something creatively.
Instead of this, we should just sign a proper CM who is good defensively and can pass the ball.
This is absolutely spot on. Great post.If we sign Mason Mount, I believe there will be changing of tactic next season. And this is mainly because ten Hag and the scouting teams couldn’t find a deep-playmaker that has similar profile as FDJ (Someone with press resistance who can be ball carrier and progressive passer). Instead of playing with 4231, he will play 433. We see this changing formation in his Ajax team when FDJ left.
The following below is Ajax attacking transition vs Dortmund in 2021/2022 season. You can see that Gravenberch is nowhere near in Ajax build up play phase. It‘s the keeper, two CB, a DM, and the two full backs the ones who got involved in this. Among these 6 players, Alvarez is the one being assigned to play more simple passes and doesn’t get involved on the ball often (see below stats), this suitable to Casemiro who is not a press resistance so I think we will see a different role in Casemiro next season in comparison to this season.
I think our build up and attacking transition will be something like this:
GKBruno will play in Gravenberch position while Mount will play next to him. Our full backs will cover the half space and sometime swap position with the wingers.
Varane Martinez
Casemiro
RB —————— Shaw
Antony - Mount - Bruno - Rashford
ST
Mount will be perfect to play in this set up and system because we will get to utilise his strength to do high press, scoring goals and assists.
I took pictures of these FBref end of last season so this is based on 21/22 season.
Yes. Unless EtH is thinking Mount actually has the attributes. I doubt it. As I’ve said before, I don’t see how Mount gets into our first XI at all but I could see him being a useful option due to his versatility and intelligence.
We definitely need a better starting option at no8.
I don’t know where Mount would fit. He plays behind the striker out out wide so he’d be on the bench.
He’s a decent player but not worth the big money Chelsea, I can imagine our scouts are lazily picking British players again because they don’t follow football outside the PL.
Alternatively we could get Rabiot on a free whose a box to box midfielder.
He’s a decent player but not worth the big money Chelsea, I can imagine our scouts are lazily picking British players again because they don’t follow football outside the PL.
Alternatively we could get Rabiot on a free whose a box to box midfielder.
Yeah, he can do job in multiple positions but I don't think he is good enough to be a starting 11 player. Maybe more suited to switch tactical set up midgame.
We are also not light on physicality, I hope we sign a CM who is strong defensively, can pass and also adds some physicality.
Yes it is a good thing to have more than 11 quality players. But unless we do a City and breach FFP rules, I am worried of signing Mount and Rice plus an expensive striker and possibly a RB for now. Our revenues are obviously higher than City’s but we also have high running costs / wages and can’t spend endlessly.
I also think even if Mount or Rice don’t start every game they will play a lot and a midfield of Case, Rice and Mount amounts to almost zero creativity. We will be like LvG’s 0-0 team.
Now leaving Mount out, a midfield of Case and Rice would also not be my ideal midfield, but with Bruno and the front 3 ETH could/would need to work out a good balance between stability and creativity.
Rice is also a quality DM so could play some games while Case is on the bench.
Mount however doesn’t provide anything what we don’t already have apart from some running and pressing. And I don’t believe we will get him for anything less than 55-60 mil.
It would also be very much like us that Chelsea refuse to give him more than 150/160k - maybe they are even prepared to give him 180/200 k including bonus/add-ons, he rejects it and then we gift him 250/300 k. Would be ridiculous but I can see us doing it.
We wont, as 200k is the new ceiling. Hence the delays to de gea and rashford new deals.
I don’t believe this. Even if it is there will be exceptions. Rashford won’t sign anything close to 200k, neither will Kane if we sign him, neither any other future top players. We need to be flexible and give top players top wages, but we need to stop giving young or average players over the top money.
You seriously don't believe this nonsense do you .
I'm pretty sure the number is 300k.
At 20 quid he's a bargain
If he comes surely its to "replace" Donny.
He was twice Chelsea's player of the year from 20-22, including the time when they won CL. I am sure he is better than Fred, who was never even our best player in all those trophy-less years.
Not as good on the ball is an understatement though, that's the issue for me. There's a real drop off in technicians in the middle of the park when Eriksen doesn't play.
Yes I agree with all of that really.
Ha! Nobody’s as good as “good” Fred, that cat is out on his own.
If he would only cost around 30m, and would not ask for more than 200k per week, would you say yes to this deal?
I think there's very much a chance we won't buy him more than 35m, as he is on last year of his contract and not going to extend, so Chelsea could loss him for nothing next summer. And I mean he is not stupid, he probably knows theres no one out there who would be willing pay him 250/300k per week, thats the range of salary only the likes of City, PSG, Real Madrid, Arsenal, Liverppol, Newcastle and us could afford. With McAllister Liverpool-bound, and Rice probably Arsenal-bound, I don't see anyone else wanting him and willing to pay him that kind of money. Or maybe Newcastle? But they don't seem rushing to make any overprice deal.
I still need some convincing.These possibilities are what you consider when debating the merits of promoting Hannibal not really sensible for a potential £55m outlay, makes no sense when you could just buy a ready made CM who does all that.
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