Mason Mount | Confirmed

[Crimson King]

That wasn't my point. I just think that spending 75m on Mount is pointless considering his best position is Bruno's, while Kovacic whom I consider a better player for the needed position, is available for much cheaper. And I'd take a free Kante to backup Casemiro because his personality is 100 times that of Rabiot's. And I disagree that he has become shite. He is still an upgrade on Fred, Donny and McT.

To be fair, it's not hard to upgrade on the 3 you've mentioned. Fred at least has his uses, I suppose.

I don't think we should be filling up on any of Chelsea's rejects, but I think it's telling that of those 3 from Chelsea Mount is the most valuable. A lot of that is his age compared to the others, but they've slapped a £75m price on him because they don't want to lose him easily. Kante and Kova I think they can actually replace quite easily. Neither of them are what they were a few years ago.

I'm not sure Mount's best position is #10, although that's certainly been where he's had some of his better performances. He's such a jack of all trades I'm not sure what his best position or role is tbh. It sounds like we'd look to deploy him as an advanced #8, which is probably what Liverpool would also do if they got him. I'm not completely sold, but I can see it working. There's definitely some Wijnaldum vibes in that thinking, for sure.

I actually think his versatility would be a bonus too, as he can play #10 and on both wings to a good standard. Won't pull up any trees, but won't let you down either.

It's not exactly the thing dreams are made of, but if you swapped Fred and McT for Mount and Rabiot you've definitely raised the technical floor of our midfield, which is where we trail massively compared to our rivals. Get mount for closer to £50m and you've still got enough to get in a striker. Maybe even a decent GK to rival DDG and a more optimal RB, depending on who we manage to sell.

We'll be working within quite tight financial constraints this summer, especially if the takeover drags on. EtH and his recruitment team will need to make the most of it, whilst also keeping the next transfer window or 2 in mind.

 

[Crimson King]

Literally anyone?

Olise and Zaha from Palace, Bowen and Fornals from West Ham, Barnes and Tete from Leicester, Neto from Wolves, McNeil from Everton, Solomon from Fulham, Mitoma from Brighton, Pulisic from Chelsea, and last but not least, our very own Garnacho.

All 'realistic' alternatives to a man that cost £90m and has flattered to deceive, and I'm not even hating on Antony, I like him, I think he'll come good at some point but you'd have to be fecking mad to suggest that was a good deal for anyone except Ajax.

How many of those are actually RW?

And that's without even acknowledging most of them aren't even good enough to play for Utd to begin with.

 

[Borys]

To be fair, it's not hard to upgrade on the 3 you've mentioned. Fred at least has his uses, I suppose.

I don't think we should be filling up on any of Chelsea's rejects, but I think it's telling that of those 3 from Chelsea Mount is the most valuable. A lot of that is his age compared to the others, but they've slapped a £75m price on him because they don't want to lose him easily. Kante and Kova I think they can actually replace quite easily. Neither of them are what they were a few years ago.

I'm not sure Mount's best position is #10, although that's certainly been where he's had some of his better performances. He's such a jack of all trades I'm not sure what his best position or role is tbh. It sounds like we'd look to deploy him as an advanced #8, which is probably what Liverpool would also do if they got him. I'm not completely sold, but I can see it working. There's definitely some Wijnaldum vibes in that thinking, for sure.

I actually think his versatility would be a bonus too, as he can play #10 and on both wings to a good standard. Won't pull up any trees, but won't let you down either.

It's not exactly the thing dreams are made of, but if you swapped Fred and McT for Mount and Rabiot you've definitely raised the technical floor of our midfield, which is where we trail massively compared to our rivals. Get mount for closer to £50m and you've still got enough to get in a striker. Maybe even a decent GK to rival DDG and a more optimal RB, depending on who we manage to sell.

We'll be working within quite tight financial constraints this summer, especially if the takeover drags on. EtH and his recruitment team will need to make the most of it, whilst also keeping the next transfer window or 2 in mind.

We have enough players who "can play" #10 and wings. That doesn't convince me at all. Our midfield area needs very specific reinforcements and Mount IMO isn't in that profile.

On the second bolded part, I'd sell McTominay without any second thought and get Rabiot to do his job. Replacing Fred with Mount, I am not sure of that because of what I mentioned above.

How many of those are actually RW?

And that's without even acknowledging most of them aren't even good enough to play for Utd to begin with.

And you can conclude already that Antony is good enough, and definitely better then the listed players? Mind you this discussion started because @BenitoSTARR stated "nobody has been able to point a realistic alternative to Antony", what clearly wasn't the case when we bought him for 90m.

 

[Crimson King]

We have enough players who "can play" #10 and wings. That doesn't convince me at all. Our midfield area needs very specific reinforcements and Mount IMO isn't in that profile.

On the second bolded part, I'd sell McTominay without any second thought and get Rabiot to do his job. Replacing Fred with Mount, I am not sure of that because of what I mentioned above.


And you can conclude already that Antony is good enough, and definitely better then the listed players? Mind you this discussion started because @BenitoSTARR stated "nobody has been able to point a realistic alternative to Antony", what clearly wasn't the case when we bought him for 90m.

Yes, I think Antony will prove to be a better player than most of those in that list.

Olise is the only real RW in there that I'd even be interested in, and I'm still not convinced by him either. He has a lot of skill, but disappears too regularly. I'm but sure he'd have the personality to play for a bigger club than Palace at the moment.

Plus, he definitely wouldn't come cheap.

 

[Borys]

Yes, I think Antony will prove to be a better player than most of those in that list.

Olise is the only real RW in there that I'd even be interested in, and I'm still not convinced by him either. He has a lot of skill, but disappears too regularly. I'm but sure he'd have the personality to play for a bigger club than Palace at the moment.

Plus, he definitely wouldn't come cheap.

So there were alternatives to Antony. I can't imagine not getting Olise for 90 even now, but who knows.

Anyway, I'd be happy if Antony reached Olise level next season as I think he's quite OK winger and definitely above Antony level currently (AND for Ajax), so it's Antony who has to catch up on him first. The decision to go for him at any cost is questionable though.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

So we give 55 M to Chelsea for Mount and then they can go and buy Ugarte. Imagine the pairing of Ugarte and Enzo and what do we have to show? Mount and ...?

One of the best defensive midfielders in the world in Casemiro and one of the most creative players in the world in Bruno?

 

[crossy1686]

How many of those are actually RW?

And that's without even acknowledging most of them aren't even good enough to play for Utd to begin with.

Antony is a left footed RW so why can't another left footed player play RW or even a right footed RW play right wing? Most of them have a better return than Antony this season so you could ask the same question about him really couldn't you?

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Love stuff like this. Thanks for sharing!

Would love us to have deep-lying playmaker for this to be more effective, but having Martinez, Shaw and potentially Kim Min Jae - three elite passers from the back, would probably compensate for this.

If you look at Ajax, Alvarez weren't exactly spectacular on the ball, but as was said in the video, they had Blind, Martinez and Timber to build play, whilst Mazraoui was the slightly more adventurous full back.

Kane
Rashford Mount Bruno Frimpong Antony
Casemiro
Shaw Martinez Kim Min Jae

A lot of rotation in that front six, too. Bruno and Mount are comfortable in wide areas. Rashford and Antony can come inside onto their strong foot, and Frimpong can over/underlap, depending on the situation.

​

 

[Crimson King]

So there were alternatives to Antony. I can't imagine not getting Olise for 90 even now, but who knows.

Anyway, I'd be happy if Antony reached Olise level next season as I think he's quite OK winger and definitely above Antony level currently (AND for Ajax), so it's Antony who has to catch up on him first. The decision to go for him at any cost is questionable though.

I wouldn't count Olise as an alternative at all. He's only scored 4 time in the league in 2 seasons for Palace. He got into double figures for assists this season, but he also takes a lot of their set pieces.

He would have been an even bigger punt than Antony, and I'm not really sure he has the attitude to make it at a top club. EtH wanted Antony because he knew him personally and knew he did have the personality to not be overwhelmed by the step up to Utd.

I think it's a real stretch to say that Antony is behind Olise on any sense. Even so, I'm quite confident Antony will have shown himself to be a much more valuable player to us than Olise would have been.

 

[croadyman]

I can't warm up to Mount at all.

I just don't think he's a good fit with Bruno already in the team. We need a midfielder who's adept on receiving the ball in deeper areas, but capable at line-breaking passes + ball carrying.

Mount's best work is further up the field. We need to get better at building up from the back and I don't think Mount is helping in that regard at all. As squad depth, he's far too expensive to justify the fee too.

I'd rather Rice 1000% over Mount.

Yeah I can't properly warm to it either,we just don't seem to be linked to any midfielders who can pick the ball up in deep areas,carry it and make those killer passes

 

[croadyman]

Thing is, Casemeiro himself is an inconsistent passer so the foundation itself is dodgy for this two 8s and a DM system unless one of the 8s is a true playmaker who can dictate the engine room and we don’t have that.

Exactly so why is Erik trying to make it work

 

[Crimson King]

Antony is a left footed RW so why can't another left footed player play RW or even a right footed RW play right wing? Most of them have a better return than Antony this season so you could ask the same question about him really couldn't you?

Yeah just stick a right footed LW on the RW and see how that goes. I mean the guy has Tete and Pulisic in his list, I shouldn't have taken the post seriously at all.

You could ask that question, but then that's not how football works is it? You could drop any of those players into our team and there's no guarantee that they'd do as well as they've done for their respective teams. You could also have dropped Antony into those sides and he might have well outperformed them.

There would have been a whole different level of pressure and expectation to live up to. And probably a real striker to link up with for most of the season.

 

[Prodigal7]

Exactly so why is Erik trying to make it work

Because we’re also after a defensive midfielder

 

[Borys]

I wouldn't count Olise as an alternative at all. He's only scored 4 time in the league in 2 seasons for Palace. He got into double figures for assists this season, but he also takes a lot of their set pieces.

He would have been an even bigger punt than Antony, and I'm not really sure he has the attitude to make it at a top club. EtH wanted Antony because he knew him personally and knew he did have the personality to not be overwhelmed by the step up to Utd.

I think it's a real stretch to say that Antony is behind Olise on any sense. Even so, I'm quite confident Antony will have shown himself to be a much more valuable player to us than Olise would have been.

Well he got 11 assists and is 85percentile for xAG, which is quite good. Antony value is 37percentile. I really don't think Olise is playing with better attackers with Antony so that is quite impressive.

I've seen Olise a few times and he looks more talented player than Antony, so let's agree to disagree and see what happens next season. My point is there were alternatives to Antony. I have no doubt about Antony having the "get up and try again" mentality, it's his actual skills and quality that I question.

 

[croadyman]

Because we’re also after a defensive midfielder

Presume you mean other than Mount & Rabiot

 

[sullydnl]

Tbf to Casemiro, he has previously shown he has the capacity to at least be more secure in his passing than he has been this season.

It's a basic measure but below is his pass completion rate over the last six seasons, starting with the most recent:

77.4%, 85.2%, 82.8%, 83.2%, 87.2%, 87.7%.

It really depends on the team around him and the role he's being asked to play.

 

[Prodigal7]

Presume you mean other than Mount & Rabiot

We are looking for a number 8 and a defensive midfielder/number 6. Mount and Rice seem to be the main targets.

 

[croadyman]

We are looking for a number 8 and a defensive midfielder/number 6. Mount and Rice seem to be the main targets.

So why isn't there more talk of wanting two midfielders,all I can see so far is a mobile 8 who can offer defence and attack

 

[crossy1686]

Yeah just stick a right footed LW on the RW and see how that goes. I mean the guy has Tete and Pulisic in his list, I shouldn't have taken the post seriously at all.

You could ask that question, but then that's not how football works is it? You could drop any of those players into our team and there's no guarantee that they'd do as well as they've done for their respective teams. You could also have dropped Antony into those sides and he might have well outperformed them.

There would have been a whole different level of pressure and expectation to live up to. And probably a real striker to link up with for most of the season.

Yeah you’re right, Antony at £90m was the only deal that would have worked out last summer. There isn’t a single other transfer in the world that would have out performed.

If you’re not open to the possibility that there could have been better value elsewhere I have nothing else to say.

 

[Borys]

Tbf to Casemiro, he has previously shown he has the capacity to at least be more secure in his passing than he has been this season.

It's a basic measure but below is his pass completion rate over the last six seasons, starting with the most recent:

77.4%, 85.2%, 82.8%, 83.2%, 87.2%, 87.7%.

It really depends on the team around him and the role he's being asked to play.

80% is the bolded part. He's actually a very good passer, but he was very often playing high risk balls over the top. Surely he was just following instructions. We are just a very vertical team.

 

[fps]

I don't see Mount as anything but a squad player, I don't see him as a top player. Not sure why Ten Hag is so keen on him.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

OK, how about Michael Olise? Left footed right winger, much better stats in terms of G+A/90' than Antony. Better at tackles, interceptions and blocks as well. Actually the only thing Antony has over him is he runs with the ball more and takes million more shots. You don't think we would've gotten him for 90'? I am not even arguing if we should be getting him and how much he's worth it, I am just debugging the idea Antony was the only option out there. He clearly wasn't, and I still argue if we needed to go all in on him. The fact is ETH insisted on bringing Antony, a guy he knows very well and this transfer is 100% on him.


I agree about the loan deals, but you have to see he got it wrong about Sabitzer, he deployed him as "connector" in the first game and quickly realized he's just a second striker. The point is, jury is still out on how ETH can identify targets. I wouldn't worry about that now, but I would be very careful about giving him full control over transfers. We've been doing a lot of experiments which looked like it wil fail from the start, especially in midfield area and I fear Mount will be added to that list because he doesn't look like a natural midfielder that will do the job in 2 man midfield. Would much prefer Rice actually.



This. Very risky approach. Casemiro also can't cover that much ground defensively by himself and that's actually why he ends up doing slicing tackles so often. This is first issue we need to fix, get him a partner or ideally someone who can also be a backup CDM.

Olise literally had a purple patch end of season and was underwhelming before this. I maintain he was not a viable or sensible alternative to Antony who has proven his ability on a much higher level and crucially for Ten Hag.

Antony was the best available left footed RW at the time that would suit ETH system at United. I wish the fee was less but I don’t believe that we would have got a better fit.

I agree the Antony transfer is on Ten Hag. But I don’t think that will prove to be a bad thing.

It might just be me but I do like that he experiments as he tries to get the most out of the sum of the parts. But I take your point that for you it’s a minor issue.

I too think Rice would be a good addition.

Literally anyone?

Olise and Zaha from Palace, Bowen and Fornals from West Ham, Barnes and Tete from Leicester, Neto from Wolves, McNeil from Everton, Solomon from Fulham, Mitoma from Brighton, Pulisic from Chelsea, and last but not least, our very own Garnacho.

All 'realistic' alternatives to a man that cost £90m and has flattered to deceive, and I'm not even hating on Antony, I like him, I think he'll come good at some point but you'd have to be fecking mad to suggest that was a good deal for anyone except Ajax.

Left footed RW was the profile. Available and better too.

Id argue none of those you mention satisfy the criteria at the time of last summer.

You’re looking with hindsight at eight footers and also players levels below Antony.

We have enough players who "can play" #10 and wings. That doesn't convince me at all. Our midfield area needs very specific reinforcements and Mount IMO isn't in that profile.

On the second bolded part, I'd sell McTominay without any second thought and get Rabiot to do his job. Replacing Fred with Mount, I am not sure of that because of what I mentioned above.


And you can conclude already that Antony is good enough, and definitely better then the listed players? Mind you this discussion started because @BenitoSTARR stated "nobody has been able to point a realistic alternative to Antony", what clearly wasn't the case when we bought him for 90m.

I still maintain there was a realistic alternative but I’ll add “comfortably better” as a qualifier to that.

Talent wise and tactically Antony was the best left footed RW we could have bought last summer. We could have gotten cheaper ones but they wouldn’t be as good or guaranteed to settle.

 

[Borys]

Olise literally had a purple patch end of season and was underwhelming before this. I maintain he was not a viable or sensible alternative to Antony who has proven his ability on a much higher level and crucially for Ten Hag.

Antony was the best available left footed RW at the time that would suit ETH system at United. I wish the fee was less but I don’t believe that we would have got a better fit.

I agree the Antony transfer is on Ten Hag. But I don’t think that will prove to be a bad thing.

It might just be me but I do like that he experiments as he tries to get the most out of the sum of the parts. But I take your point that for you it’s a minor issue.

I too think Rice would be a good addition.

Left footed RW was the profile. Available and better too.

Id argue none of those you mention satisfy the criteria at the time of last summer.

You’re looking with hindsight at eight footers and also players levels below Antony.

I still maintain there was a realistic alternative but I’ll add “comfortably better” as a qualifier to that.

Talent wise and tactically Antony was the best left footed RW we could have bought last summer. We could have gotten cheaper ones but they wouldn’t be as good or guaranteed to settle.

I seriously don't know how you can state the bolded part with such certainty. He certainly wasn't a comfortably better player than those players mentioned, he was hardly regarded as top prospect in Europe. He was just left footed right winger at Ajax. Tactically he might be the best choice for Ten Hag - I admit that. I find it hard to believe that ETH wanted Antony so bad for tactical reasons but it might be.

 

[bosnian_red]

I can't warm up to Mount at all.

I just don't think he's a good fit with Bruno already in the team. We need a midfielder who's adept on receiving the ball in deeper areas, but capable at line-breaking passes + ball carrying.

Mount's best work is further up the field. We need to get better at building up from the back and I don't think Mount is helping in that regard at all. As squad depth, he's far too expensive to justify the fee too.

I'd rather Rice 1000% over Mount.

Just doesn't make sense that to me. Rice is a DM, exclusively. Ten Hag wants to use 2 #8's, 2 players in midfield who are more creative and forward thinking ahead of 1 DM. Even in a double pivot, the partner to the 1 DM should be generally a deep playmaker and not a DM. Rice isn't a playmaker, he plays the same role as Casemiro and partnering them would make us very solid yes but also extremely uninventive on the ball and we'd struggle with creativity. Mount is a very good player, not elite, but he offers excellent traits that will help us. He's a forward thinking midfielder, a very good presser, is a goal threat, and a very good decision maker generally to help the creativity. He can offer a blend of the good of what Fred and Eriksen offered for us essentially.

 

[luke511]

Just doesn't make sense that to me. Rice is a DM, exclusively. Ten Hag wants to use 2 #8's, 2 players in midfield who are more creative and forward thinking ahead of 1 DM. Even in a double pivot, the partner to the 1 DM should be generally a deep playmaker and not a DM. Rice isn't a playmaker, he plays the same role as Casemiro and partnering them would make us very solid yes but also extremely uninventive on the ball and we'd struggle with creativity. Mount is a very good player, not elite, but he offers excellent traits that will help us. He's a forward thinking midfielder, a very good presser, is a goal threat, and a very good decision maker generally to help the creativity. He can offer a blend of the good of what Fred and Eriksen offered for us essentially.

Rice can play as an 8, especially with Casemiro in the same midfield. He’s excellent defensively, strong at dribbling, passing and shooting.

 

[bosnian_red]

Rice can play as an 8, especially with Casemiro in the same midfield. He’s excellent defensively, strong at dribbling, passing and shooting.

He is strong technically to a degree but he doesn't have the traits or playing style to actually do what you need. He's not a creative passer. He doesn't provide incisive passing into attacking areas. He doesn't create chances. He doesn't link up in tight spaces in attack to open things up. He doesn't make attacking runs. He does the things that a quality DM needs to be able to do, passing from that first phase to your more creative players, not losing it under pressure and can carry from that 1st midfielder into the open spaces - but not through tight spaces. That's where he'd pass it off to a Mount, Bruno, Eriksen, etc.

This is backed up by:

• 53rd percentile xAG
• 57th percentile key passes
• 17th percentile passes into the box
• 28th percentile non pen xG
• 42nd percentile touches in attacking 3rd
• 48th percentile carries into the box

He's a very good player. He's a DM though. I was all for getting him until we got Casemiro. It makes no sense to partner Casemiro with the same type of player though. And you don't spend the amount we need on him unless we plan on using him in his best position and that's a need for us. He wouldn't start for us in his best position. For the things Ten Hag needs as a #8, Mount is a much more suitable player.

 

[croadyman]

I don't see Mount as anything but a squad player, I don't see him as a top player. Not sure why Ten Hag is so keen on him.

Yeah weird isn't it

 

[Tarrou]

I don't see Mount as anything but a squad player, I don't see him as a top player. Not sure why Ten Hag is so keen on him.

tactical discipline and a team player, ETH loves that

I think it's a decent signing at the right price

if we end up spending 70m on him it would be insane

 

[bosnian_red]

I don't see Mount as anything but a squad player, I don't see him as a top player. Not sure why Ten Hag is so keen on him.

So the last time he played a significant amount of the season in midfield (20/21, when he was 22 years old):

• 98th percentile xAG
• 99th percentile key passes
• 74th percentile passes into final third
• 86th percentile passes into box
• 90th percentile progressive passes
• 99th percentile shot creating actions
• 91st percentile tackles in the attacking 3rd (highlighting a strong press)
• 96th percentile progressive carries
• 95th percentile carries into final third
• 95th percentile carries into box
• 99th percentile shot creating actions from dead ball passes (set piece creation)
• 87th percentile non pen xG
• 92nd percentile progressive passes received

Id suspect this is a quick summary of what they see.

 

[croadyman]

So the last time he played a significant amount of the season in midfield (20/21, when he was 22 years old):

• 98th percentile xAG
• 99th percentile key passes
• 74th percentile passes into final third
• 86th percentile passes into box
• 90th percentile progressive passes
• 99th percentile shot creating actions
• 91st percentile tackles in the attacking 3rd (highlighting a strong press)
• 96th percentile progressive carries
• 95th percentile carries into final third
• 95th percentile carries into box
• 99th percentile shot creating actions from dead ball passes (set piece creation)
• 87th percentile non pen xG
• 92nd percentile progressive passes received

Id suspect this is a quick summary of what they see.

The only one a bit low is passes into final third

 

[croadyman]

tactical discipline and a team player, ETH loves that

I think it's a decent signing at the right price

if we end up spending 70m on him it would be insane

Think £40-£45m is fair

 

[Bebestation]

De Jong, Van De Beek and De Ligt were all at their best when they played for Ten Hag.

Ten Hag makes players shine & they are usually in my eyes not the same level outside of Ten Hags management.

I say this because it makes me think that Mount might really go up a level having never being managed by Ten Hag, being Chelsea’s poty twice and also being someone Ten Hag has had specific tactics planned out for Mount during his time in the Eridivise.

I think Mount under Ten Hag might genuinely go get the hype some of his Ajax players got under his management.

 

[croadyman]

De Jong, Van De Beek and De Ligt were all at their best when they played for Ten Hag.

Ten Hag makes players shine & they are usually in my eyes not the same level outside of Ten Hags management.

I say this because it makes me think that Mount might really go up a level having never being managed by Ten Hag, being Chelsea’s poty twice and also being someone Ten Hag has had specific tactics planned out for Mount during his time in the Eridivise.

I think Mount under Ten Hag might genuinely go get the hype some of his Ajax players got under his management.

How I would love that to be the case but can't felt be worried about no playmaker to operate from deep and control the tempo

 

[bosnian_red]

The only one a bit low is passes into final third

As a comparison, mac Allister is 60th percentile this year and Gundogan is 78th percentile. On a per 90 basis Mount that year was similar to Mac Allister with passes into the final third though. Mount offers a better goal threat along with better carrying and better play in the final third though. Id say they have a lot of similarities, but Mount just being better, at least based on their careers til now.

 

[croadyman]

As a comparison, mac Allister is 60th percentile this year and Gundogan is 78th percentile. On a per 90 basis Mount that year was similar to Mac Allister with passes into the final third though. Mount offers a better goal threat along with better carrying and better play in the final third though. Id say they have a lot of similarities, but Mount just being better, at least based on their careers til now.

I want to believe this move could prove to be a masterstroke but still unsure that's the case

 

[luke511]

He is strong technically to a degree but he doesn't have the traits or playing style to actually do what you need. He's not a creative passer. He doesn't provide incisive passing into attacking areas. He doesn't create chances. He doesn't link up in tight spaces in attack to open things up. He doesn't make attacking runs. He does the things that a quality DM needs to be able to do, passing from that first phase to your more creative players, not losing it under pressure and can carry from that 1st midfielder into the open spaces - but not through tight spaces. That's where he'd pass it off to a Mount, Bruno, Eriksen, etc.

This is backed up by:

• 53rd percentile xAG
• 57th percentile key passes
• 17th percentile passes into the box
• 28th percentile non pen xG
• 42nd percentile touches in attacking 3rd
• 48th percentile carries into the box

He's a very good player. He's a DM though. I was all for getting him until we got Casemiro. It makes no sense to partner Casemiro with the same type of player though. And you don't spend the amount we need on him unless we plan on using him in his best position and that's a need for us. He wouldn't start for us in his best position. For the things Ten Hag needs as a #8, Mount is a much more suitable player.

That's quite selective and shaped by his position on the field, I can back up my point by using these stats:

86th percentile Progressive Carries
99th percentile Switches
78th percentile Progressive Passing Distance
66th percentile Shot-Creating Actions
81st percentile Pass Completion
83rd percentile Passes Completed (Long)
87th percentile Passes into Final Third

He passes the eye test as well:



We won't have a DLP level of creativity having him as an 8 but it's worth it for the amount of defensive stability he would bring and he is still a great passer. With him starting we could have Bruno and Amad as the main playmakers with creative support from Shaw, Casemiro, Rice and Dalot/new RB.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

That's quite selective and shaped by his position on the field, I can back up my point by using these stats:

86th percentile Progressive Carries
99th percentile Switches
78th percentile Progressive Passing Distance
66th percentile Shot-Creating Actions
81st percentile Pass Completion
83rd percentile Passes Completed (Long)
87th percentile Passes into Final Third

He passes the eye test as well:



We won't have a DLP level of creativity having him as an 8 but it's worth it for the amount of defensive stability he would bring and he is still a great passer. With him starting we could have Bruno and Amad as the main playmakers with creative support from Shaw, Casemiro, Rice and Dalot/new RB.

There’s no chance we’ll play him as an 8. What an epic waste that would be. We’re a side that can’t score goals - can’t be prioritising unnecessary defensive stability over actually opponents consistently.

 

[luke511]

There’s no chance we’ll play him as an 8. What an epic waste that would be. We’re a side that can’t score goals - can’t be prioritising unnecessary defensive stability over actually opponents consistently.

Have you seen us against good teams away from home this season? The goalscoring had a lot more to do with factors like having to start Weghorst 20 games in a row.

 

[bosnian_red]

That's quite selective and shaped by his position on the field, I can back up my point by using these stats:

86th percentile Progressive Carries
99th percentile Switches
78th percentile Progressive Passing Distance
66th percentile Shot-Creating Actions
81st percentile Pass Completion
83rd percentile Passes Completed (Long)
87th percentile Passes into Final Third

He passes the eye test as well:



We won't have a DLP level of creativity having him as an 8 but it's worth it for the amount of defensive stability he would bring and he is still a great passer. With him starting we could have Bruno and Amad as the main playmakers with creative support from Shaw, Casemiro, Rice and Dalot/new RB.

It's selectively picking the creativity stats. Yes a quality midfielder, I'm not disputing that. He's a DM though. I've long since said he's good enough for a big team. But partnering Casemiro with someone like Rice is a ridiculously negative setup and not something that Ten Hag will want to do. He doesn't roam up, move between the lines to receive passes from deep. He is the one from deep who breaks that first line. He progresses it from that first midfield phase into the opposing half, but then stays to hold the space. That's a vital position. We happen to have the best in the world arguably in that position. We needed that for a decade, but we finally addressed it. Now what we need is the more advanced partner to that, and for that player, they naturally need to be more forward thinking.

I'm not saying Mount is perfect for the role, but he's a very good player and just suits that need more. The perfect guy isn't available for us.

 

[sullydnl]

That's quite selective and shaped by his position on the field, I can back up my point by using these stats:

86th percentile Progressive Carries
99th percentile Switches
78th percentile Progressive Passing Distance
66th percentile Shot-Creating Actions
81st percentile Pass Completion
83rd percentile Passes Completed (Long)
87th percentile Passes into Final Third

He passes the eye test as well:



We won't have a DLP level of creativity having him as an 8 but it's worth it for the amount of defensive stability he would bring and he is still a great passer. With him starting we could have Bruno and Amad as the main playmakers with creative support from Shaw, Casemiro, Rice and Dalot/new RB.

Even if we didn't go for an advanced #8 set-up, Rice doesn't complement Casemiro. We know the profile of midfielders that do, having seen him flourish alongside Kroos and Modric. And we also know the profile of midfields ETH has favoured in his previous teams, which a Casemiro/Rice pairing also doesn't fit into. It's far too conservative a set up for the actual brand of football ETH's teams play, as in that sort of side Rice plays the same role Casemiro does.