He paid less than what each club wanted
Manchester United name John Murtough as Football Director and Darren Fletcher as Technical Director
- Thread starter Tom Van Persie
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I remember when people used to praise Woodward for making transfers.
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Thanks for replying, it's good to hear where someone else's views the summer. Unfortunately I don't agree. We played the majority of this pre season without a striker. It's not ideal preparation for this season in a key area. Yes we got players in time for new season but will we be ready?
I'm not accepting these fees are good, whataboutery was magnificent there. You can't compare other amounts to make the deal look not less expensive, it's about context. What the club can offered to pay and how much we need it, we needed a lot, especially up front. Mount was overpaying, year left. Nobody will convince me that we didn't overpay there, the season he had with a year left with the state of Chelsea (no European football)Onana slightly, the mess with keepers this Summer, offering a contract and changing our mind, poor leadership and strategy. Sent out the wrong message to other clubs, wasn't a sign of clear vision.
I'm excited for Rasmus potential but it's a gamble for the price paid, it's far from a sure thing and that price puts more pressure on now(you know it does). I think some fans in here are annoyed that some are shtin on there parade. Say they are moaning, whinging ect and want to stay ultra positive but there must be concerns, especially how some are reacting in here. It's on to hostile, I can't give credit to someone who's main role is to negotiate and isn't getting a good price, any time so far in the incomings. That's the main issue I have with John.
If you're negotiating, you'd obviously ask for more than what you want so then you still have room. If you won't go below 60, ask for 80. I've seen contestants on Dragons Den do that so I'm assuming most clubs do.
Some people only care about new players. Whether they're value for money, going to fit into the team or even any good is beside the point. As long as its someone new.
Makes sense. It's like putting a machine through testing. You see the strengths and weaknesses and know where to improve.
Exactly, we’ve done well to sign 3 very good players in crucial areas quickly with signs pointing towards maybe another midfielder and a back up goalkeeper incoming. Also selling elanga, Telles and probably Fred, bailly , McT aswell, transformative.
Whine, whine, whine. He has done a good job this summer, and certainly - by far - the best job in the last ten years at this club.
I agree with the notion, when you look at the history of this thread it's full of praise for things that are relatively basic.
So we got the asking price down from €90m to €85m for someone who's less proven than Nunez. Don't get me wrong, I like the signing but wtf is this negotiation.
People were joking that the Atalanta negotiator was the guy who scammed us for £80m for Maguire but he's done it bloody again.
Granted, Hojlund is a striker, prices are inflated and the market is short of these players but come on. Don't anyone praise this guy as if he's rewriting the transfer negotiation book.
If a team signs most of it's priority targets before the end of pre season it's good but the caveat is the fees. Arsenal got their transfers over the line quickly as well but they overpaid so it's not something you can laud the management for it somewhat neutralizes itself. Almost to say that business was done quickly due to the fees as opposed to some other metrics in the negotiations.
I wouldn't criticize Murtough this summer but I wouldn't praise him either. There needs to be more time and evidence of progress such as the teams development on field.
Is it?
Onana had agreed on a contract with Inter last year January. Caicedo was a different club hierarchy.
Agreed, good job so far this and last summer. Would disagree regarding Antony and Hojlund but eh.
Also, the sales are being limited based on the prior regime's work so we'll see how Murtough and team manages that.
Success/failure in a transfer window is a team effort, and I'm very happy with how our window is going so far:
ETH is making good decisions in re-balancing the squad within FFP limits:
ETH is making good decisions in re-balancing the squad within FFP limits:
- Getting De Gea's salary off our books while fixing our GK distribution
- Exiting peripheral players (Telles, Jones, Tuanzebe, Elanga plus likely Bailly, Henderson, Bailly and Bishop)
- Exiting (with upside clauses) youngsters who weren't going to make at Utd (Laird, Iqbal, Galbraith, Bernard, Savage)
- Not renewing loans (Butland, Sabitzer, Weghorst) and replacing them with at least two buys (Mount, Hojlund)
- Lining up Amrabat to replace one of McFred
- Closed three major deals by the end of July plus Amrabat pending, all at prices which seem reasonable in the current market (Rice anyone?)
- Made good progress on exiting the peripheral players
- Included good sell-on clauses when letting youngsters go
Is bolded not contradictory? The context for sure matters, but part of that context is the rest of the market. If we paid 50 million for Mount and other big name players were going for 20 million, I would say it was a terrible price. But when similar profiled players are going for roughly the same amount then I don't consider it to be terrible. I did concede yeah we may have overpaid for Mount considering he had 1 year left on his deal, however, you can still look at the market, and my opinion was I don't think it was too bad. I don't think the Onana deal was bad either. I also disagree that there wasn't a clear vision. I think DDG was considered expendable day 1, we just had more pressing issues. Hence why we offered him the contract. The availability of Onana would have made us consider rushing the timeline on getting a new keeper (which we would have gotten anyway, presumably next year).
The Hojlund deal is a weird one for me. I am unconvinced looking at his videos whether he will be a great player. The comparison is obviously going to pop up, so I'm going to make it here. When I look at Hojlund, I see physical ability that isn't matched with technical ability in the same way it was with MG. I do wonder if there is going to be disapproval if he doesn't hit the ground running, especially depending on what happens to the aforementioned player. But back to the subject of Murtough, in my opinion judging him solely on our transfer dealings as far as price goes is wrong. I think you have to look at the state of the whole club. Which I think has been positive. For the first time in a decade, we have seen players improve over the course of the season, we also have a manager who not only gets the club but also has the abilities to be at the helm. Furthermore, we are making signings quicker than we have in a long time. Now, I do not think that improvements are solely based on Murtough alone either. I think the trio of Arnold-Murtough-Ten Hag, is a good partnership and the success of each is reliant on the others. Had we had Woodward instead of Arnold, I think we would have been worse off, same as if we had someone else for Murtough, or Ten Hag. As a unit I think they have been excellent. I also don't necessarily believe that this summer in particular, we have gone "Ten Hag, what's your targets", but a harmonious approach where they will obviously ask Ten Hag what areas we should strengthen, but also rely on the recruitment team to suggest names/ideas, which is the way it should be.
Whilst you can look at Onana and see an ex Ten Hag player, you can also see one of the best in the world at playing the ball. Any team in the world who was looking for a keeper with a similar profile is going to have his name on the shortlist. It's also honestly the same for Mount. He's a very good player who's very good at what he does. Hojlund, is a highly rated young player in a role where there's not many good ones around, therefore would again be on anyone's shortlist.
I'm not sure whether it's ETH or Murtough or the new scouting department. Overall we have improved tremendously from seasons before.
We didn't just went for obvious target. We went for players like Mount, Hojlund, Onana, Amrabat to fit the system we play instead of chasing superstar all summer like Sancho, FDJ, Pogba and the likes all summer.
We didn't just went for obvious target. We went for players like Mount, Hojlund, Onana, Amrabat to fit the system we play instead of chasing superstar all summer like Sancho, FDJ, Pogba and the likes all summer.
I think it's a combination of all those things, as well as Woody not being around to bollocks everything up
Definite improvements in my view
I don’t know about scouting as I’d still like to see us finding good deals early - like City did with Alvarez or Liverpool have with players many a time. But while our scouting (or action on it) remains dodgy, the actual transfer business - I have to say Murtough has done well. Last summer I was critical as it was simply too late for a new manager and it led to our bad start.
This time we’ve seemingly nearly got three keys signings in by July end. That’s big progrss right there. If we can get a fourth like Ambrabat or whoever is the priority in by mid August, then that’s as effective as it gets. Obviously we’ll have to see how good the players are but that speed of action was sorely lacking under Ed.
This time we’ve seemingly nearly got three keys signings in by July end. That’s big progrss right there. If we can get a fourth like Ambrabat or whoever is the priority in by mid August, then that’s as effective as it gets. Obviously we’ll have to see how good the players are but that speed of action was sorely lacking under Ed.
Good job. Before this window many may not know much about Amrabat, Hojlund and even Onana.
Mate, you spend about 80% of your time talking shite on the internet. You couldn't deliver a fecking pizza.
Finding a balance with the right amount of money to spend is still something to work on, but simply going for the right types of players is a big step for us. Signing the right profiles in the positions that need addressing, consistently, is how you consistently get better and have fewer flops. Ignoring problem areas and going for big name because you have a chance to bring them in is how you get flop.
If Antony suddenly turns into Robben this season, Murtough would be hailed as a genius for the last summer as well.
A great put down of a legendarily bad poster. Bravo.
So what should Murtough do?
After this summer, we have filled all the gaps, especially if fe get Amrabat. I think next summer will be even better then, because then we don't have to panic and can search for cheaper targets and more 'Pellistri signings'. Atleast I hope so.
No he won’t because he overpaid regardless
Don't hold your breath
If Antony turns into Robben, it'd be a steal for that price.
I'm sure the hunt for a CF will continue. It would be a miracle if Hojlund scores 15+ goals. And the jury is still out on RW spot.
You think he's going to turn into prime Robben?
Of course not, but in the wild hypothetical, he turns into a steal for the price.
Yeah, but we can sit tight and plan and not be desperate. Someone mentioned that Watkins contract will expire in 2025, and obviously Kane may be on the market. We will be in a better position.
Could say that about any player couldn't we but we all know, it doesn't work that way unfortunately.
Well no 94m euros is not a steal. Especially when he didn’t show that potential in the first place
One can dream but Robben's left foot was absolutely lethal. He played mainly using his left foot similar to Antony but the end product (even when Robben was young) was world apart.
To be fair, Antony debuted for us with the opening goal against Arsenal. He also scored the winning goal against Barcelona which ended our dreadful run of loss to them. So I'm ready to cut the guy some slack and place high hopes on him. He did score in the big occasions, something Lukaku could only dream of even after 2 years with us.
I also hope and I think Antony can improve a lot to be a vital player for us. But there is just something about Robben that set him apart as one of the best right winger in his generation. The way he hold the ball, dribble, passing, link up play, crossing, shooting, finishing and etc was just class. He was like Luis Figo a world class player played mainly with his right foot only.
He's pretty much given Ten Hag the majority of signings he's asked for.
No De Jong, no Harry Kane though. And Declan Rice would have been useful to us.
Very good work this window so far. Got our signings in on time, we didn’t get our pants pulled down by clubs over fees.
The signings are easy to execute. Nobody's going to fight for us for 70m mount or 70m Hojlund.
But for that price i want an up an running starter, not some hopeful punts who needs work.
But for that price i want an up an running starter, not some hopeful punts who needs work.