Manchester United name John Murtough as Football Director and Darren Fletcher as Technical Director

[Zed is not dead]

Some of the takes here are so irrational that it’s not even funny anymore.

There are many examples of supposedly great DoFs who failed when they changed clubs.
A DoF is only as good as the club’s structure.

Monchi was good at Seville, failed at Roma.

Luis Campos was good at Monaco, currently failing at PSG.

Even City’s DoF has been given blank checks and reunited with a coach he worked with. He arrived in 2012 and they still had some shite signings in his 11 years tenure as DoF.

A DoF is not a magician that can turn a club around. I don’t know which DoF would accept the United job until we complete the takeover and finish the restructuring that is taking place since Woodward left.

Managing structural change in big organisations is a difficult task and results cannot be seen overnight.

 

[roseguy64]

A redcafe voting system would have the club in a better position than these jokers over the last decade. It doesn't take an expert to realise how shocking this club's been when it has come to wasteful spending.

Absolutely not.

 

[Halftrack]

Yes, the good DoF learns from their mistakes, the bad DoF pays more than their public take it or leave it offer.

This is completely illogical.

To learn from a mistake, you have to make it. In your eyes, Murtough just made it, so it stands to reason that he now has to learn from it, no?

 

[#07]

Probably not but no top DOF would have taken the role under the same conditions or lasted long if they did. He’s the best fit for what the Glazers want which is why he got the job.

Even if he is good at the job I doubt he has anything close to enough power or influence to show it.

Fair points. Ultimately, the Glazers have been and will remain the major problem for us. Until they go we are relying on getting lucky, rather than having a proper system in place to deliver results.

 

[luke511]

This is completely illogical.

To learn from a mistake, you have to make it. In your eyes, Murtough just made it, so it stands to reason that he now has to learn from it, no?

The club has made the same mistake over and over, he made it last year with Antony, just a complete inability to walk away from an overly high valuation. It’s just this time there was a take it or leave it offer and they still ended up folding to their terms.

 

[luke511]

Absolutely not.

I’ve just remembered the Rashford vote, I take back my claim

 

[golden_blunder]

Yes, the good DoF learns from their mistakes, the bad DoF pays more than their public take it or leave it offer.

When has he done it this summer?

 

[Halftrack]

The club has made the same mistake over and over, he made it last year with Antony, just a complete inability to walk away from an overly high valuation. It’s just this time there was a take it or leave it offer and they still ended up folding to their terms.

You know literally nothing about what actually goes on behind the scenes, and to what extent it's up to Murtough alone to walk away from deals.

But keep acting like you're some expert on the inner workings of the club, it sure makes you look intelligent, and not at all like a petulant child throwing toys out of his pram.

 

[luke511]

When has he done it this summer?

Mount?

 

[golden_blunder]

Some of the takes here are so irrational that it’s not even funny anymore.

There are many examples of supposedly great DoFs who failed when they changed clubs.
A DoF is only as good as the club’s structure.

Monchi was good at Seville, failed at Roma.

Luis Campos was good at Monaco, currently failing at PSG.

Even City’s DoF has been given blank checks and reunited with a coach he worked with. He arrived in 2012 and they still had some shite signings in his 11 years tenure as DoF.

A DoF is not a magician that can turn a club around. I don’t know which DoF would accept the United job until we complete the takeover and finish the restructuring that is taking place since Woodward left.

Managing structural change in big organisations is a difficult task and results cannot be seen overnight.

Exactly. It does my head in that people think change DoF and all the problems magically go away. It’s nonsense

 

[golden_blunder]

Mount?

Fair price. Next?

 

[luke511]

You know literally nothing about what actually goes on behind the scenes, and to what extent it's up to Murtough alone to walk away from deals.

But keep acting like you're some expert on the inner workings of the club, it sure makes you look intelligent, and not at all like a petulant child throwing toys out of his pram.

Sorry I forgot utd’s operations were completely classified to the public eye. I really don’t care how I’m perceived.

 

[Halftrack]

I really don’t care how I’m perceived.

Clearly.

 

[luke511]

Clearly.

I’ll leave your sweet precious John alone now.

 

[Halftrack]

I’ll leave your sweet precious John alone now.

Child.

 

[luke511]

Child.

 

[golden_blunder]

Sorry I forgot utd’s operations were completely classified to the public eye. I really don’t care how I’m perceived.

I noticed in another thread you’re saying Mount will cost 60m. You’re as bad as the bloody media. Stop spreading that nonsense. It’s 55m. The other 5 is dependent on him being successful. Which if he is, we will be happy to pay the extra 5m

 

[luke511]

I noticed in another thread you’re saying Mount will cost 60m. You’re as bad as the bloody media. Stop spreading that nonsense. It’s 55m. The other 5 is dependent on him being successful. Which if he is, we will be happy to pay the extra 5m

Whoopsie doodle, still 5 million more than his take it or leave it offer.

 

[Halftrack]

You've been spitting all your dummies out because we decided to negotiate to try and get a deal done instead of being stubborn. It's patently stupid to walk away from a deal to sign one of your priority targets over a difference that small. We tried bluffing, and Chelsea called it.

Plus, we probably valued getting the player in before the start of pre-season over sticking to some silly principle of not making posters on the Caf feel second-hand embarrassment over how we conduct business.

Liverpool were adamant they wouldn't meet Roma's valuation of Salah, then eventually ended up doing exactly that. I think they maybe managed to knock something like a million quid off the price. Clearly a total shambles, bet their fans still shudder at the thought of it. Or what about that time when they decided to pay more than Keita's release clause before it took effect, to ensure they'd get him the following summer? Bunch of people calling that smart business by them, spending extra to land an average crock a year later.

 

[golden_blunder]

Whoopsie doodle, still 5 million more than his take it or leave it offer.

Says who, some newspaper?

 

[glasgow 21]

You've been spitting all your dummies out because we decided to negotiate to try and get a deal done instead of being stubborn. It's patently stupid to walk away from a deal to sign one of your priority targets over a difference that small. We tried bluffing, and Chelsea called it.

Plus, we probably valued getting the player in before the start of pre-season over sticking to some silly principle of not making posters on the Caf feel second-hand embarrassment over how we conduct business.

Liverpool were adamant they wouldn't meet Roma's valuation of Salah, then eventually ended up doing exactly that. I think they maybe managed to knock something like a million quid off the price. Clearly a total shambles, bet their fans still shudder at the thought of it. Or what about that time when they decided to pay more than Keita's release clause before it took effect, to ensure they'd get him the following summer? Bunch of people calling that smart business by them, spending extra to land an average crock a year later.

Correct, but folk need to understand there is still somewhere to go till we do an Arsenal of £40m plus a pound gaffe.

 

[Matriac]

Didn't know we had so many experts in football finance, contract negotiations and player transfers on here. Wonder why they're all posting on the Caf about it instead of working for top clubs?

I'm not posting actively here as I'm facepalming at many, but part of my job in an unrelated industry is contract negotiation, and there's a lot of elements that overlap no matter the industry. I'm sure there are others here in a similar position as myself who knows what they are talking about.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Mount?

I think that John is a complete plonker but Mount's price is ok. We didn't overpay there. Fee at least.
Wage.....that is another story.

 

[baskinginthesun]

Mount?

Declan Rice is going for £105m. Is that a bargain? Is he a better player than Mount?

Mount Is worth the price and probably a fair valuation for a young English capped player not quite in their prime years.

 

[Grande]

A redcafe voting system would have the club in a better position than these jokers over the last decade. It doesn't take an expert to realise how shocking this club's been when it has come to wasteful spending.

This is why it might have worked:

Some of the takes here are so irrational that it’s not even funny anymore.

There are many examples of supposedly great DoFs who failed when they changed clubs.
A DoF is only as good as the club’s structure.

Monchi was good at Seville, failed at Roma.

Luis Campos was good at Monaco, currently failing at PSG.

Even City’s DoF has been given blank checks and reunited with a coach he worked with. He arrived in 2012 and they still had some shite signings in his 11 years tenure as DoF.

A DoF is not a magician that can turn a club around. I don’t know which DoF would accept the United job until we complete the takeover and finish the restructuring that is taking place since Woodward left.

Managing structural change in big organisations is a difficult task and results cannot be seen overnight.

And this is why it would never have:

I’ll leave your sweet precious John alone now.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Talk of Amrabat agreeing personal terms

Talks on going with Hojland

Deal very much 'On' with Onana

I thought we were shite?!

 

[romufc]

Talk of Amrabat agreeing personal terms

Talks on going with Hojland

Deal very much 'On' with Onana

I thought we were shite?!

Not sure where this has come from? We have no GK, no ST, I am sure we are "talking" to alot of players and agents.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Not sure where this has come from? We have no GK, no ST, I am sure we are "talking" to alot of players and agents.

My boy Mutough is cooking up something good....

 

[romufc]

My boy Mutough is cooking up something good....

In that case, lets go Murtough

 

[pocco]

When the time comes for ETH to no longer be our manager, do we think he'll be kept on in his defacto Director of Football position? Surely Murtough will need him to keep identifying players for him.

 

[luke511]

When the time comes for ETH to no longer be our manager, do we think he'll be kept on in his defacto Director of Football position? Surely Murtough will need him to keep identifying players for him.

I worry about the mental health of utd scouts Feels like pure neglect.

 

[pocco]

I worry about the mental health of utd scouts Feels like pure neglect.

Either it's the most pointless position within the club, or the easiest.

 

[Rightnr]

Talk of Amrabat agreeing personal terms

Talks on going with Hojland

Deal very much 'On' with Onana

I thought we were shite?!

You also thought we were getting Caicedo and Mount when the club briefed we're walking away from Mount which was so transparent a brief, 1sf year PR at uni won't consider doing it

 

[UnitedSofa]

You also thought we were getting Caicedo and Mount when the club briefed we're walking away from Mount which was so transparent a brief, 1sf year PR at uni won't consider doing it

I got suckered in to the hype man! Let me be a Transfer Muppet and not a grumpy old git!

 

[Andycoleno9]

I wonder what is his selling strategy. Just wait for someone to make a bid?

 

[Rocksy]

I wonder what is his selling strategy. Just wait for someone to make a bid?

I think United’s number one issue over the years has been the selling (or lack of it) as it compounds the bad purchases. People say that no one wants United’s players, but I think there is a market for Fred (Italy, lower Prem, Saudi), Telles (Spain, Italy, Saudi), Bailly (Saudi), Maguire (lower EPL), Martial (Saudi). None of them would be massive fees, but at least 3 of those should be sellable and if Saudi get involved in some of those deals 40-50 million in total would pay for Onana. You’d hope they’re offering some of these players around.

Chelsea, Liverpool, and City get higher fees because they have a history of getting them, and they have generally had leaner, tighter squads over the years. At this stage, United just need to start regularly getting players out at reasonable fees.

 

[Andycoleno9]

I think United’s number one issue over the years has been the selling (or lack of it) as it compounds the bad purchases. People say that no one wants United’s players, but I think there is a market for Fred (Italy, lower Prem, Saudi), Telles (Spain, Italy, Saudi), Bailly (Saudi), Maguire (lower EPL), Martial (Saudi). None of them would be massive fees, but at least 3 of those should be sellable and if Saudi get involved in some of those deals 40-50 million in total would pay for Onana. You’d hope they’re offering some of these players around.

Chelsea, Liverpool, and City get higher fees because they have a history of getting them, and they have generally had leaner, tighter squads over the years. At this stage, United just need to start regularly getting players out at reasonable fees.

People keep defending him regarding sales with wages being an issue. While wages can be some sort of issue, that just can't be an excuse for not selling players at all.
McT, Elanga, Henderson, Williams, Bailly and Telles are all around and bellow 100k per week. Fred is 120k per week. Those are high wages but hardly deal breakers.
Maguire has high wage but also Maguire, despite his flaws, is England first 11 player and experienced PL defender. You can always lower fee demand to compensate for high wage.

The truth is that Murtough suck in his job. When you are selling players you must make effort in doing that and call agents and clubs early in transfer window. Because more you wait less clubs will be interested (because they will spend money elsewhere).

 

[roseguy64]

People keep defending him regarding sales with wages being an issue. While wages can be some sort of issue, that just can't be an excuse for not selling players at all.
McT, Elanga, Henderson, Williams, Bailly and Telles are all around and bellow 100k per week. Fred is 120k per week. Those are high wages but hardly deal breakers.
Maguire has high wage but also Maguire, despite his flaws, is England first 11 player and experienced PL defender. You can always lower fee demand to compensate for high wage.

The truth is that Murtough suck in his job. When you are selling players you must make effort in doing that and call agents and clubs early in transfer window. Because more you wait less clubs will be interested (because they will spend money elsewhere).

Regardless of whether he's bad at his job or not, Man Utd isn't the only big club that's had an issue with selling players. It's a function of the EPL being the league with the most money. Clubs in other leagues simply can't afford big club players so the market is very limited. And it hurts that they've not performed well enough and the team as well that it hurts their value.

You just haven't noticed the players stuck at other big clubs over the years who are loaned out because the Chelsea or Arsenal can't sell them.

 

[Redstain]

Some posts are outlandish but some do reflect the un-answered questions he posses in assessing his competence in his role. If the structure is to blame for the successive elements of being a DOF, than Woodward would still be in charge because his failings could just be excused due to poor club structure. I have always found that the most successful element of business is always the people, it doesn't matter how brilliant the proposition, product or service is the wrong people will always hamper the execution and scalability. Unfortunately, there's still too much of a strong foundation where the manager dictates too much of the recruitment. That is 100% an area where John has to put his foot down and steer a strategic directive for what the profile of the team should be in cooperation with the manager.

Provisionally, the 'director' of football must have a 'directive' which is to be objective, so in theory they would be planning beyond the contemporary position of the present manager. That is accomplished through having a vision. So if hypothetically everything fell apart with ETH, if the DOF is diligent the team amassed through his vision should be able to comply with another manager of similar philosophy. This makes it more sustainable moving forward because there's less dependency on club resources to rebuild time and time and time again if the said manager fails or is poached etc. That is essentially what we have seen with United the last decade, every new manager prompts a new rebuild because the club has lacked a vision. The issue with United is that the vision in my opinion is MORE reflective of the manager than it is the DOF. That is a problem.

 

[wolvored]

I keep saying this, with the parasites having the final say, you could have Cities team of negotiators here and we would still be as bad. We never will do any good until they go.