Manchester United name John Murtough as Football Director and Darren Fletcher as Technical Director

[Rozay]

When you are linked with a player, you take greater interest to analyze a player and see what he brings to the team. I mean it would be unrealistic to analyze every player you watch, more often that not it's just casual watching without any keen interest on one player, it's more on the team and the general flow of the game, unless you are watching the player you are interested in.

You don't even have to change your mind, there are people (like me) who don't rate Mount as highly as others do but then when you take into account which all clubs are trying to sign him then you should at least given some benefit of doubt and be more open to the thought that you might be wrong about the player and your casual watching of player didn't give you enough information to assess the player properly.

Each to their own, I’m not sure it works like that. For me to rate a player, he needs to impress ME. Not Pep, not Klopp, not Ten Hag. My impression of a player doesn’t need to be absolute - but it’s mine. It’s simply the impression that I got from watching them. If after watching decades of football you do not feel entitled to say whether you rate a player or not then heaven help us. The coaches can think what they want, good for them. This isn’t a maths test, this is sport. Being open minded, hopeful or optimistic is all natural as a fan of a team. But being honest with yourself and what you think is basic.

If you, as you say, don’t rate Mount as highly as others then that’s how you feel. I’m sure you have players that you DO rate. It’s not mandatory for a football observer to have the same view as Ten Hag or Klopp. This isn’t about dying on hills, if your watching over the next year causes you to now rate Mount higher then fantastic. But you, nor I, are ‘wrong’ for not rating Mount as highly as others.

 

[Matt851]

Liverpool wanted him but it's pretty widely reported he preferred United.

Or that they preferred signing mcallister for a much lower fee and on much lower wages.

 

[Giggsyking]

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Imagine you give yourself a pat on the back.

 

[Pexbo]

Or that they preferred signing mcallister for a much lower fee and on much lower wages.

I’m not a Mount fan but I’d rather pay a premium for him than Mac Alister who is a limited player with a good engine IMO. Not worried at all about what he will bring to Liverpool if he was half the price.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

I’m not a Mount fan but I’d rather pay a premium for him than Mac Alister who is a limited player with a good engine IMO. Not worried at all about what he will bring to Liverpool if he was half the price.

Limited in what way? He excels in multiple positions!

Isn’t he obviously far more versatile than almost every other PL midfielder, including Mount?

Seems really odd to call him limited when he was a key player playing DM, 8 and 10 last season in Brighton’s best ever PL season!

Also really odd that ETH wasn’t in for him given his preference for players who can play multiple positions. I really do think it’ll be one that comes back to bite Utd.

 

[roonster09]

Each to their own, I’m not sure it works like that. For me to rate a player, he needs to impress ME. Not Pep, not Klopp, not Ten Hag. My impression of a player doesn’t need to be absolute - but it’s mine. It’s simply the impression that I got from watching them. If after watching decades of football you do not feel entitled to say whether you rate a player or not then heaven help us. The coaches can think what they want, good for them. This isn’t a maths test, this is sport. Being open minded, hopeful or optimistic is all natural as a fan of a team. But being honest with yourself and what you think is basic.

If you, as you say, don’t rate Mount as highly as others then that’s how you feel. I’m sure you have players that you DO rate. It’s not mandatory for a football observer to have the same view as Ten Hag or Klopp. This isn’t about dying on hills, if your watching over the next year causes you to now rate Mount higher then fantastic. But you, nor I, are ‘wrong’ for not rating Mount as highly as others.

Rating player is different, you rate player when you watch them and something about them impresses you. Not rating player is different, especially players from other clubs as you won't be focusing on player. You will be focusing more on the game (usually) and the flow of the game.

Not exactly sure what is being honest with yourself means, the way I see, people should be open for correction and fine tune their opinions with more relevant content rather than sticking to lazy opinions formed by watching few games here and there, with the entire focus elsewhere, when I watched Chelsea, I for sure didn't focus on Mount. It was more on opponent and the Felix or in the past Reece James, or Kante. So my opinion on Mount is not really well informed as I wasn't interested on the player, so the chances of him impressing me is minimal as my focus wasn't on the player at all.

You don't have to agree with everything manager says or does but when you see 3 of the top managers wanting the same player, the player you don't rate highly then there is nothing wrong in revisiting on how you rated the player, then watch more analysis on the player to form a better informed opinion.

I don't know why people should be so stubborn on their opinion, especially it's more or less lazy opinions.

At least in my case, I never thought of Mount as someone who is press resistant or player who is capable of playing on half-turn. Then when you watch his analysis videos, it's more visible how good he is at receiving pass on half turn or his ability to carry the ball in tighter space. So should I change my opinion on Mount's ability on receiving passes on half turn or stick to my lazy analysis/opinion on Mount when I never concentrated on the player when watching Chelsea, as Mount didn't play a single game for ManUtd?

I don't have problem with people who stick to their guns, just find it weird they think changing opinion is wrong, especially when you consume so much content for weeks on single player.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Yeah, and in the meantime they became champions for the first time in 60 years, won the cup and play CL football. The guy made a mistake, was fired for it. Not saying I want him at Utd, far from it.

Yeah I'm not for or against him tbh, just thought you left out that very minor detail..

 

[Lecland07]

Or that they preferred signing mcallister for a much lower fee and on much lower wages.

It depends on how you want to see it, but there were strong links regarding Liverpool's interest in Mount. It did not take long for Mount to decide on Manutd, though.

Liverpool moved on, knowing that they won't get him.

 

[Adebisi's Hat]

I read this as ‘ I don’t believe all this Frustration Free Packaging noise from Occupational Therapy, (if this is to believed and maybe it’s just Digital Multimedia Brodacasting Services).

Or did you mean defensive midfielder, bi-sexual?

touche, fair comment, I see what you mean, i will edit that. But also it is possible all those things are also true.

 

[VP89]

Limited in what way? He excels in multiple positions!

Isn’t he obviously far more versatile than almost every other PL midfielder, including Mount?

Seems really odd to call him limited when he was a key player playing DM, 8 and 10 last season in Brighton’s best ever PL season!

Also really odd that ETH wasn’t in for him given his preference for players who can play multiple positions. I really do think it’ll be one that comes back to bite Utd.

No. Just no.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Isn’t he obviously far more versatile than almost every other PL midfielder, including Mount?

That is an absurd about tbf.

 

[Devil You Know]

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Woodward would have paid the original £80m asking price that Chelsea wanted

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Compared to that, Murtough is levels above.

 

[Chief123]

It seems that no matter how much footy some watch, their opinion on a player is simply ‘I like who Ten Hag likes’. Like robots. I remember the conversations on Mason Mount on here over the years, especially when some dared to mention him alongside Bruno.

My opinion may not turn out to be the correct one with Mount, but still, at least have one of your own. If that is that Mount is a great player then fine, but the trend has swung a lot of late. Perhaps naturally I guess.

Even though I’m not over excited at signing Mount, I am excited about seeing what ETH can do with him and best maximise his attributes.

I’m pretty certain fans who say they like a player because ETH likes them are implying that they are happy to see what ETH can do with them. Because to be fair, we had a number of players who looked absolutely shite or finished before ETH came. ETH was able to drastically turn their performances around. ETH clearly knows what he is doing hence I would trust his judgment many times over than my own no matter how shite I think a player is.

 

[Grande]

touche, fair comment, I see what you mean, i will edit that. But also it is possible all those things are also true.

By now, I have completely convinced myself that they are!

 

[Devil You Know]

Limited in what way? He excels in multiple positions!

Isn’t he obviously far more versatile than almost every other PL midfielder, including Mount?

Seems really odd to call him limited when he was a key player playing DM, 8 and 10 last season in Brighton’s best ever PL season!

Also really odd that ETH wasn’t in for him given his preference for players who can play multiple positions. I really do think it’ll be one that comes back to bite Utd.

I would worry about Mac Allister being another system player like all the Dortmund duds we've bought over the years. At least with Mount, you know he can do it at a high level in a number of systems.

There's also not a huge amount between the two:

Where they really differ is key passes and duel success rate. Given that difference, I think it's fair to assume that EtH has plans specific plans to use Mount in a more advanced role which mirrors Bruno alongside him in midfield.

The key difference between Liverpool and everyone else is that the scousers have a couple of brilliant playmakers on either side of the pitch (TAA and Robertson) so they're mostly looking for defensive solidity in the middle. United are going for the opposite, with our solidity coming from Shaw/AWB, and creativity in the middle.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

No. Just no.

That is an absurd about tbf.

Mac Allister is an absurdly versatile midfielder, I’m not sure what you’re protesting here. Other than he’s signed for dippers so you think acknowledging the blatantly obvious is some kind of ‘anti Mount’ sentiment.

He’s famously capable of playing multiple positions and is technically proficient in all of them.

He might (hopefully) end up a worse signing than Mount, but to deny the fact that he’s anomalously versatile is very odd.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

I would worry about Mac Allister being another system player like all the Dortmund duds we've bought over the years. At least with Mount, you know he can do it at a high level in a number of systems.

There's also not a huge amount between the two:

Where they really differ is key passes and duel success rate. Given that difference, I think it's fair to assume that EtH has plans specific plans to use Mount in a more advanced role which mirrors Bruno alongside him in midfield.

The key difference between Liverpool and everyone else is that the scousers have a couple of brilliant playmakers on either side of the pitch (TAA and Robertson) so they're mostly looking for defensive solidity in the middle. United are going for the opposite, with our solidity coming from Shaw/AWB, and creativity in the middle.

Mac Allister has just had a season where he’s played under Potter, then gone to the WC and shone at the highest level (winning the World Cup in the process) and then returning and played multiple positions very well in Di Zerbi’s new Brighton.

He is obviously one of the most versatile midfielders in the PL and is capable of shining in multiple different systems as he’s literally just shown in one season.

 

[Rozay]

Rating player is different, you rate player when you watch them and something about them impresses you. Not rating player is different, especially players from other clubs as you won't be focusing on player. You will be focusing more on the game (usually) and the flow of the game.

Not exactly sure what is being honest with yourself means, the way I see, people should be open for correction and fine tune their opinions with more relevant content rather than sticking to lazy opinions formed by watching few games here and there, with the entire focus elsewhere, when I watched Chelsea, I for sure didn't focus on Mount. It was more on opponent and the Felix or in the past Reece James, or Kante. So my opinion on Mount is not really well informed as I wasn't interested on the player, so the chances of him impressing me is minimal as my focus wasn't on the player at all.

You don't have to agree with everything manager says or does but when you see 3 of the top managers wanting the same player, the player you don't rate highly then there is nothing wrong in revisiting on how you rated the player, then watch more analysis on the player to form a better informed opinion.

I don't know why people should be so stubborn on their opinion, especially it's more or less lazy opinions.

At least in my case, I never thought of Mount as someone who is press resistant or player who is capable of playing on half-turn. Then when you watch his analysis videos, it's more visible how good he is at receiving pass on half turn or his ability to carry the ball in tighter space. So should I change my opinion on Mount's ability on receiving passes on half turn or stick to my lazy analysis/opinion on Mount when I never concentrated on the player when watching Chelsea, as Mount didn't play a single game for ManUtd?

I don't have problem with people who stick to their guns, just find it weird they think changing opinion is wrong, especially when you consume so much content for weeks on single player.

I don’t think changing an opinion is wrong. As I’ve said repeatedly. I’ve said I’m not changing my opinion on a player because he signs for Manchester United. And the extent to which you have watched Mount or what attention you have paid to him is personal to you and has nothing to do with me. I’m comfortable that I’ve watched him plenty, and I simply have an opinion on him. That’s it. I have an opinion of Fabinho. If Fabinho joined us this evening, if someone asked me what I think of him, it would be exactly the same as my answer would have been yesterday. Naturally. Not ‘stubbornly’, but like - obviously. Does that mean that it can’t change? No. But for it to change, I’d simply need to watch him more, and for him to change my mind.

Mount hasn’t kicked a ball since being linked with us, yet you have some sort of issue that my view on a PL England international hasn’t suddenly changed simply because 3 top managers (allegedly, and to varying degrees) apparently want him. Why would that be relevant to ME? If that mattered, I’d have changed my mind long ago simply on the basis that Thomas Tuchel and Gareth Southgate think he’s great. And again, I think he’s pretty good too anyway. Not in the very top tier, as is my right. Ten Hag and Van Gaal apparently see something in Weghorst. So what, that’s good for them.

 

[VP89]

Mac Allister is an absurdly versatile midfielder, I’m not sure what you’re protesting here. Other than he’s signed for dippers so you think acknowledging the blatantly obvious is some kind of ‘anti Mount’ sentiment.

He’s famously capable of playing multiple positions and is technically proficient in all of them.

He might (hopefully) end up a worse signing than Mount, but to deny the fact that he’s anomalously versatile is very odd.

Did you just try and make a comeback by making a lazy insinuation that we are against any "anti mount" sentiment? Just look at the eye test, and consider Mac Alister has been great for one season. Mount was Chelsea player of the year 2 out of 3 seasons and is in the top 5 most creative players in the league.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Did you just try and make a comeback by making a lazy insinuation that we are against any "anti mount" sentiment? Just look at the eye test, and consider Mac Alister has been great for one season. Mount was Chelsea player of the year 2 out of 3 seasons and is in the top 5 most creative players in the league.

Ok… what’s that got to do with Mac Allister’s supposed lack of versatility?

It’s nothing to do with it, is it.

 

[Halftrack]

Mac Allister has just had a season where he’s played under Potter, then gone to the WC and shone at the highest level (winning the World Cup in the process) and then returning and played multiple positions very well in Di Zerbi’s new Brighton.

He is obviously one of the most versatile midfielders in the PL and is capable of shining in multiple different systems as he’s literally just shown in one season.

Maybe cool off on declaring him the greatest thing ever until he's done it for more than one season.

Last year he was a bang average midfielder whose only notable attribute was his name.

 

[Matt851]

I’m not a Mount fan but I’d rather pay a premium for him than Mac Alister who is a limited player with a good engine IMO. Not worried at all about what he will bring to Liverpool if he was half the price.

Fair enough, I would have have preferred mcallister even at the same price personally. Seems a big risk to buy mount to playat 8 when he has barely played there let alone to try him on a double pivot

 

[roonster09]

I don’t think changing an opinion is wrong. As I’ve said repeatedly. I’ve said I’m not changing my opinion on a player because he signs for Manchester United. And the extent to which you have watched Mount or what attention you have paid to him is personal to you and has nothing to do with me. I’m comfortable that I’ve watched him plenty, and I simply have an opinion on him. That’s it. I have an opinion of Fabinho. If Fabinho joined us this evening, if someone asked me what I think of him, it would be exactly the same as my answer would have been yesterday. Naturally. Not ‘stubbornly’, but like - obviously. Does that mean that it can’t change? No. But for it to change, I’d simply need to watch him more, and for him to change my mind.

Mount hasn’t kicked a ball since being linked with us, yet you have some sort of issue that my view on a PL England international hasn’t suddenly changed simply because 3 top managers (allegedly, and to varying degrees) apparently want him. Why would that be relevant to ME? If that mattered, I’d have changed my mind long ago simply on the basis that Thomas Tuchel and Gareth Southgate think he’s great. And again, I think he’s pretty good too anyway. Not in the very top tier, as is my right. Ten Hag and Van Gaal apparently see something in Weghorst. So what, that’s good for them.

Looks like you have turned this entire argument to make it look like "I have a problem with people who didn't change their opinion", that's not anywhere close to the truth.

So the bold part, that's the argument I made. People change their opinions when they focus on player more, watching lot of analysis videos and individual performance videos. They will learn much more about the player which makes them to form informed opinion rather than have a lazy one.

 

[Matt851]

I would worry about Mac Allister being another system player like all the Dortmund duds we've bought over the years. At least with Mount, you know he can do it at a high level in a number of systems.

There's also not a huge amount between the two:

Where they really differ is key passes and duel success rate. Given that difference, I think it's fair to assume that EtH has plans specific plans to use Mount in a more advanced role which mirrors Bruno alongside him in midfield.

The key difference between Liverpool and everyone else is that the scousers have a couple of brilliant playmakers on either side of the pitch (TAA and Robertson) so they're mostly looking for defensive solidity in the middle. United are going for the opposite, with our solidity coming from Shaw/AWB, and creativity in the middle.

But how often has mount actually played as an 8, let alone played well? My guess is the few times he has played as an 8 he would have played with two defensive mids

 

[VP89]

Ok… what’s that got to do with Mac Allister’s supposed lack of versatility?

It’s nothing to do with it, is it.

When did I say Mac Allister is not versatile?
Im saying he's not more so than Mount, and he's not as established as Mount and I am saying Mount is the better player.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

When did I say Mac Allister is not versatile?
Im saying he's not more so than Mount, and he's not as established as Mount and I am saying Mount is the better player.

You think Mount is positionally more versatile than Mac Allister?

 

[Posh Red]

You think Mount is positionally more versatile than Mac Allister?

It’s a fair suggestion. He’s played out wide, along with multiple midfield roles. Not sure on McAllister. Is he similar?

 

[Rozay]

Looks like you have turned this entire argument to make it look like "I have a problem with people who didn't change their opinion", that's not anywhere close to the truth.

So the bold part, that's the argument I made. People change their opinions when they focus on player more, watching lot of analysis videos and individual performance videos. They will learn much more about the player which makes them to form informed opinion rather than have a lazy one.

You did that on your own. From your very first contribution to it. An hour ago it was apparently some form of arrogance and ego/lack of humility to not simply ‘accept that your view on a player is wrong’. Now I’m apparently implying that you ‘have a problem with those who don’t change their opinion’.

I’ll just wait until he turns out for us. I’m not obligated to complete a module on a footballer before I hold a view. A PL England international is enough exposure for me to feel comfortable in deciding whether or not I have an opinion on their level. I’ve watched no analysis videos on De Bruyne, but I rate him. If your opinion on Mount is lazy then fine, but you speak for yourself.

A view is just a view, if it changes - it changes, it’s not that serious. I am happy to accept that my view is a view prior to having watched hours of Youtube videos on Mason Mount if it makes people happy. It’s just a view on having watched the player plenty of times. I’ve not submitted to his Wikipedia or anything, it’s just my impression of him. Which I repeat, is not a fecking negative one.

 

[JPRouve]

It’s a fair suggestion. He’s played out wide, along with multiple midfield roles. Not sure on McAllister. Is he similar?

I'm almost sure that he has been used a fair amount of times as an attacking midfielder "widish". But I don't think that it is at the same level of performance than Mount.

 

[saivet]

But how often has mount actually played as an 8, let alone played well? My guess is the few times he has played as an 8 he would have played with two defensive mids

According to transfermarkt he's had 34 appearances for Chelsea in CM (all seasons) and 9 for England (all seasons) in CM.

Would note that their positions can be a bit off at times, so it could be a bit more or less.

You're right that he has played as a no.8 mainly when he is the only and most attacking midfielder but he has played in similar set ups alongside a more attacking no.8 on a few occasions across his career. The handful of times I recall would be with Havertz/Barkely at Chelsea or alongside Foden for England. It's not a set up he's played in much but it's not completely new to him.

 

[pascell]

99% of the people criticising Murtough and Arnold are just doing it for the sake of it. There is little evidence to suggest they are incompetent and the changes they are trying to make from an image perspective when negotiating is almost impossible to do without bumps on the way. For example from S. Luckhurst:

" One club executive told Murtough last year, "You're Manchester United. You've got loads of money." United ended interest in a player, believed to be Benjamin Sesko, after they were quoted almost double the fee RB Leipzig paid to Red Bull Salzburg."

Look who published the latest Murtough article, blatantly obvious it is Murtough himself drip feeding the information to Luckhurst. Basically could feed him whatever he wants and it would be published, then lapped up by the Caf.

Also, we probably lost out on Sesko as he favoured the move to Leipzig. We've overpaid for plenty of other players in transfer fees and wages under his scope. He's incompetent and we'll only start being taken serious when we have competent people in the right positions.

 

[VP89]

You think Mount is positionally more versatile than Mac Allister?

Yes, its not really a debate. Mac Alister has at best dabbled in a 10 but otherwise been a 6.

 

[Red00012]

£65m+Martial for Kane or Osimhen

Why would anyone want Martial ?

 

[glasgow 21]

Fair enough, I would have have preferred mcallister even at the same price personally. Seems a big risk to buy mount to playat 8 when he has barely played there let alone to try him on a double pivot

Maybe we all need to calm down and accept the possibility MacAllister preferred to go to Liverpool and Mount preferred to join Man Utd. We paid a bit of English tax so get over it. Leaves us we can buy another overseas player in the short to long term.

 

[Idxomer]

Yes, its not really a debate. Mac Alister has at best dabbled in a 10 but otherwise been a 6.

Mac Alister has been an attacking midfielder for most of his career and rarely a 6 before this season.

 

[Halftrack]

Look who published the latest Murtough article, blatantly obvious it is Murtough himself drip feeding the information to Luckhurst. Basically could feed him whatever he wants and it would be published, then lapped up by the Caf.

Also, we probably lost out on Sesko as he favoured the move to Leipzig. We've overpaid for plenty of other players in transfer fees and wages under his scope. He's incompetent and we'll only start being taken serious when we have competent people in the right positions.

Well, if pascell and the Caf says Murtough's incompetent then who am I to question it.

 

[roonster09]

You did that on your own. From your very first contribution to it. An hour ago it was apparently some form of arrogance and ego/lack of humility to not simply ‘accept that your view on a player is wrong’. Now I’m apparently implying that you ‘have a problem with those who don’t change their opinion’.

I’ll just wait until he turns out for us. I’m not obligated to complete a module on a footballer before I hold a view. A PL England international is enough exposure for me to feel comfortable in deciding whether or not I have an opinion on their level. I’ve watched no analysis videos on De Bruyne, but I rate him. If your opinion on Mount is lazy then fine, but you speak for yourself.

A view is just a view, if it changes - it changes, it’s not that serious. I am happy to accept that my view is a view prior to having watched hours of Youtube videos on Mason Mount if it makes people happy. It’s just a view on having watched the player plenty of times. I’ve not submitted to his Wikipedia or anything, it’s just my impression of him. Which I repeat, is not a fecking negative one.

It's not my problem if you make up things in your head or turn some generic post into attack on you.

 

[pascell]

Well, if pascell and the Caf says Murtough's incompetent then who am I to question it.

Completely agree.

 

[Matt851]

Maybe we all need to calm down and accept the possibility MacAllister preferred to go to Liverpool and Mount preferred to join Man Utd. We paid a bit of English tax so get over it. Leaves us we can buy another overseas player in the short to long term.

Kind of misses the point, I can accept we overpaid for Mount but my point is its a risk spending a significant chunk of our budget on a player who has rarely played in the position we are mainly signing them for.

 

[VP89]

Mac Alister has been an attacking midfielder for most of his career and rarely a 6 before this season.

You're right - mainly the 10 this last season.

It's his best season but its 10 goals 2 assists and he's the PK taker. If anything its a reflection of how criminally underrated Mount is when we have posters claiming MacAlister > Mount because I dont know, banter.