Manchester United name John Murtough as Football Director and Darren Fletcher as Technical Director

[glasgow 21]

Look who published the latest Murtough article, blatantly obvious it is Murtough himself drip feeding the information to Luckhurst. Basically could feed him whatever he wants and it would be published, then lapped up by the Caf.

Also, we probably lost out on Sesko as he favoured the move to Leipzig. We've overpaid for plenty of other players in transfer fees and wages under his scope. He's incompetent and we'll only start being taken serious when we have competent people in the right positions.

Whoa just whoa. United ended their interest in Sesko when RB staff went to Salzburg and gave them a talking too and next he was heading to Leipzig for the FFP busting /under the table/ "Do what i tell ya sum" of 20m. If this was a fair run we would have outbid Leipzig, but this was everything other than a fair fight.

I blame United staff a lot but I don't not blame them on this one.

Sesko along with Naby Keita, Marcel Sabitzer, Dayot Upamecano and Dominik Szoboszlai all previously moved to Leipzig after being developed at Salzburg. Do you not remember Salzburg fans tweeting you can have Sesko for 300m plus Bruno ? Then they buckled for 20m when Daddy Leipzig walked into the room.

 

[Adnan]

That’s a view. I see no reason why I am obligated to dismiss the reports that Mount has been a POI since Vitesse, and there’s no reason that I am obligated to dismiss it or reference it in addition to other things that suggest at a pattern.

Everyone here is just so fiercely defensive of Erik Ten Hag, which is understandable, however, I just think the fact that I like him shouldn’t obstruct me from pointing out things that concern me.

We’ve gone 60m and 250/300k a week on Mason Mount and I suspect that EVERYONE is suggesting that is a fantastic idea largely on the basis that ‘Ten Hag wants him’. You all watch football, especially English football, if you would have thought that was a terrible idea 3 months ago then I don’t see why people cannot form their own views. This is an England international, not an unseen player from Brazil. It’s Mason Mount. Who apparently now everyone wanted us to sign for our midfield.

As for the wider analysis of Ten Hag in the market, he leaves a bit to be desired for me. I don’t see it as his strength, and that supports reports we had before he joined us. I’m just concerned that we are committing big money to players who won’t have transformative impact on our team. 60m Mount, 85m Antony. You only get a few of those in your team, and we need one or two of them to be the leaders/stars of the team. The difference makers, the Haaland/KDB/Salah/Odegaard etc in the team, and if the few times we get to commit big money (fees/wages) then we need players of that calibre. Admittedly, I wanted us to sign Antony, but fact is the impact has been little.

I love the manager as much as the rest, but would prefer a different approach in the market. And everyone trying to imply that some sort of preference for Dutch, present/former Eredivise players is something randomly cooked up by Rozay is laughable. Sorry to disappoint you as a poster, but you should also know me well enough to know that I don’t really care for consensus posting for the sake of it and will call anything as I happen to see it.

You're absolutely within your rights to have doubts. But for me Mason Mount is a player that is a obvious pick up for any head coach who wants to implement a proactive attacking brand of football. Because not only are you expected to control the game in possession but control has to be exerted off the ball to manage the opponent's transition or when applying the press/counter press to force high turnovers. We're really bad at those things currently and along with the eye test, the data also backs up Mount being a key cog within the system that I believe Erik ten Hag is attempting to implement in a high defensive line. And like yourself, I also didn't have Mason Mount as someone that I thought we'd sign or I wanted us to sign. But I can understand why Mason Mount would be of interest to coaches like ten Hag, Arteta and Klopp.

In the summer of 2016, we signed Pogba for a then world record transfer fee and Liverpool signed Wijnaldum for around a fraction of that price from relegated Newcastle. Pogba was the more talented player in possession but Wijnaldum's ability with and without the ball in Klopp's proactive attacking system where the press and counter press was a additional weapon, became more beneficial to Klopp's system due to him being technically good in possession but even better at managing transitions off the ball. And it's important to understand the idea the manager wants to implement before we pass judgement on players on a individual basis without connecting them to the idea of the manager IMHO.

I've said consistently that the best attacking teams in the EPL, are those teams who have the best build up phase which is backed up by data. And our post Fergie problem is in that build up phase in a EPL which is now being dominated by teams who build from the back, which allows them to raise their defensive line and hence commit more and more players into the opponent's half because their players at the back can resist and evade pressure starting with their goalkeepers.

So for Mason Mount to be a effective second phase player where he can receive the ball on the half half turn and progress the ball into the front line, the GK, CBs, deeper midfield and fullbacks are required to be as close to elite as possible in possession. Because the strategy against us is simple with De Gea in goal and that is to press all the outfield players and force them to go back to De Gea who will give the ball away. And the best pressing teams were doing that to us and were emboldened in their attempts by how bad the GK was in possession.

We obviously need a striker but it's imperative that the build up phase is improved on. And any new keeper who is good in possession should make a difference in the build up phase, but what is ten Hag going to do with the RB position and Casemiro backup is going to be key to how things develop next season imo. Because the system is currently reliant on Casemiro staying fit and Dalot and Wan Bissaka inverting in-field, which again is something that worries me. And I'm not sure if the actual plan is to play both Mount and Bruno as high #8s and I wouldn't be surprised if we sign a deeper lying midfielder near the end of the window.

My focus is on how the team is going to develop as a proactive attacking unit. And it looks like the GK is incoming in that regard which for me is a big step towards transitioning into being a more dominant team. We seem to be under financial constraints but so far we seem to be heading into the the right direction as far as developing the team towards a more proactive play-style.

 

[Ali Dia]

If we can secure Onana soon then it's been a cracking start to the window.

Then hopefully start moving onto a striker quite quickly and I imagine that will be it for us this summer.

Really good window. Strengthened the spine majorly. We still need a young 6 and a young CB so hopefully if new owners come in we can do that too in the one window

 

[glasgow 21]

Kind of misses the point, I can accept we overpaid for Mount but my point is its a risk spending a significant chunk of our budget on a player who has rarely played in the position we are mainly signing them for.

Misses what point ? ETH wants him ,we have done the deal, move on. This window success has nothing to do with whether or not we paid a bit extra for Mount. It lies with the staffs ability to off load Maguire and the clan who we all want to see the back off and add the procrastination of the Glazers on the sale.

But hey, let's kick this deal in the teeth for a month or so and get Antony into the conversation whilst we are at it and we can all muddle in the misery.

 

[philippexyz]

It looks like Ten Hag has total control over transfers, and i don't like that. I'm not impressed with ETH as a talent evaluator at all - Antony is an example. He just needs to tell sporting director(DOF) and scouts what he needs and they should find an optimum solution(transfer target) - it's their job to do that.

But, unfortunately, this club isn't run that way(no competent people around/above ETH) and it won't be until the Florida goblins/orcs are gone.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Really good window. Strengthened the spine majorly. We still need a young 6 and a young CB so hopefully if new owners come in we can do that too in the one window

Spot on, don't see it happening this window but next summer a must.

 

[Matt851]

Misses what point ? ETH wants him ,we have done the deal, move on. This window success has nothing to do with whether or not we paid a bit extra for Mount. It lies with the staffs ability to off load Maguire and the clan who we all want to see the back off and add the procrastination of the Glazers on the sale.

But hey, let's kick this deal in the teeth for a month or so and get Antony into the conversation whilst we are at it and we can all muddle in the misery.

The point I made and you were supposedly responding to but don't let that stop you going off on a random rant

 

[roseguy64]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

- See second tweet. Surely Murtough would tell ETH before having it announced. It's not a huge deal but it's a minor detail that looks bad. We have very little to work with concerning John Murtough's performance in his role as there's so many factors that affect it (especially the Glazers). But there's lots of little hints that the guy, at times at least, lacks some basic communication skills. I'm all for the new owners giving existing staff a chance but I'm not convinced Murtough will prove he's anywhere near 'best in class'.

Well that's not a club announcement. Would be an agent leak probably immediately as it was done.

 

[#07]

Would any other top club hire Murtough to be Director of Football? If there's a takeover and he gets fired, will Madrid, Munich or Milan be his next destination?

Man Utd used to be about excellence. Now it's about giving people a chance just in case. Players and staff alike. So many at the club overstay their time cos they might come good, stop getting injured, show they can do it. Murtough is just another example.

When he ultimately goes the only way will be down. City has an ex Barcelona Football Director. We have a guy who came here with Moyes and who survived by being Woodward's chief lieutenant.

 

[roseguy64]

Fair point. We may not know whom of hus will seem tight or wrong in hindsight, but we have different perspectives which has a value in itself. My view on Mount has been that he has seemed like a smart and solid player, without star qualities, but very useful to as different and sensible managers as Lampard, Tuchel, Southgate, Pochettino and Ten Hag. So I accept that he is a useful and quite versatile player, who won’t have a Bruno-esque impact, but who used well may be an important part of a very good team.

Makes sense to me. To me I’m less affected by the possibility that we could have negotiated better given the contract situation and the player’s desire to come to us, it weighs more with me that we have aquired an young England regular from a rival for 55m+, and that he wanted to leave his boyhood club to come to us.

Same for me.

 

[redshaw]

Well I hope we can conclude a reasonable deal with Onana or Costa and not be held to ransom or end up having to find some last minute Dutch keeper about to retire that once had a coffee with ETH.

The handling of the keeper situation doesn't look good. Note I'm not for resigning De Gea, we should've sold him in 2019.

 

[roseguy64]

Would any other top club hire Murtough to be Director of Football? If there's a takeover and he gets fired, will Madrid, Munich or Milan be his next destination?

Man Utd used to be about excellence. Now it's about giving people a chance just in case. Players and staff alike. So many at the club overstay their time cos they might come good, stop getting injured, show they can do it. Murtough is just another example.

When he ultimately goes the only way will be down. City has an ex Barcelona Football Director. We have a guy who came here with Moyes and who survived by being Woodward's chief lieutenant.

Clubs hire all manner of people in those positions. I can bet you've never heard of the people who are in similar roles at other clubs before they got appointed. The people who do get those jobs are in the background and only get name famous when they get the promotion either at their current club or at a new club poaching them.
It's just ridiculous.
Tell me you knew who Frederic Massara, Paul Winstanley and Jorg Schmadtke were before they got their current jobs.

 

[Tarrou]

starting to look like we're gonna fill all the major gaps in the team this summer

first time that will have happened for a while right?

in the middle of a takeover too

 

[Mainoldo]

Clubs hire all manner of people in those positions. I can bet you've never heard of the people who are in similar roles at other clubs before they got appointed. The people who do get those jobs are in the background and only get name famous when they get the promotion either at their current club or at a new club poaching them.
It's just ridiculous.
Tell me you knew who Frederic Massara, Paul Winstanley and Jorg Schmadtke were before they got their current jobs.

Who are these People.. and who do they work for?!

 

[Lemoor]

Who are these People.. and who do they work for?!

Former Milan and Roma sporting director, former Brighton chief of scouting/current Chelsea sporting director and former Wolfsburg/current Liverpool sporting director.

 

[Mainoldo]

Former Milan and Roma sporting director, former Brighton chief of scouting/current Chelsea sporting director and former Wolfsburg/current Liverpool sporting director.

Well point made!! But yeah nobody has a scooby who’s the people better than Murtough.

 

[baskinginthesun]

Well point made!! But yeah nobody has a scooby who’s the people better than Murtough.

We also tend to be "headline news" and so it's well known who our Sporting Director is. Plus, it's transfer season and we're up for sale. Murtough is unfortunately front and center because he's trying to his job while the owners sell the club.

 

[Zed is not dead]

Former Milan and Roma sporting director, former Brighton chief of scouting/current Chelsea sporting director and former Wolfsburg/current Liverpool sporting director.

Except that we’ve seen many many times that a successful DOF at a given club can be a huge failure at another club.
The generalist DOF is yet to be invented, the quality of their work usually depends a whole lot on the overall organisation of the club

 

[sglowrider]

You're absolutely within your rights to have doubts. But for me Mason Mount is a player that is a obvious pick up for any head coach who wants to implement a proactive attacking brand of football. Because not only are you expected to control the game in possession but control has to be exerted off the ball to manage the opponent's transition or when applying the press/counter press to force high turnovers. We're really bad at those things currently and along with the eye test, the data also backs up Mount being a key cog within the system that I believe Erik ten Hag is attempting to implement in a high defensive line. And like yourself, I also didn't have Mason Mount as someone that I thought we'd sign or I wanted us to sign. But I can understand why Mason Mount would be of interest to coaches like ten Hag, Arteta and Klopp.

In the summer of 2016, we signed Pogba for a then world record transfer fee and Liverpool signed Wijnaldum for around a fraction of that price from relegated Newcastle. Pogba was the more talented player in possession but Wijnaldum's ability with and without the ball in Klopp's proactive attacking system where the press and counter press was a additional weapon, became more beneficial to Klopp's system due to him being technically good in possession but even better at managing transitions off the ball. And it's important to understand the idea the manager wants to implement before we pass judgement on players on a individual basis without connecting them to the idea of the manager IMHO.

I've said consistently that the best attacking teams in the EPL, are those teams who have the best build up phase which is backed up by data. And our post Fergie problem is in that build up phase in a EPL which is now being dominated by teams who build from the back, which allows them to raise their defensive line and hence commit more and more players into the opponent's half because their players at the back can resist and evade pressure starting with their goalkeepers.

So for Mason Mount to be a effective second phase player where he can receive the ball on the half half turn and progress the ball into the front line, the GK, CBs, deeper midfield and fullbacks are required to be as close to elite as possible in possession. Because the strategy against us is simple with De Gea in goal and that is to press all the outfield players and force them to go back to De Gea who will give the ball away. And the best pressing teams were doing that to us and were emboldened in their attempts by how bad the GK was in possession.

We obviously need a striker but it's imperative that the build up phase is improved on. And any new keeper who is good in possession should make a difference in the build up phase, but what is ten Hag going to do with the RB position and Casemiro backup is going to be key to how things develop next season imo. Because the system is currently reliant on Casemiro staying fit and Dalot and Wan Bissaka inverting in-field, which again is something that worries me. And I'm not sure if the actual plan is to play both Mount and Bruno as high #8s and I wouldn't be surprised if we sign a deeper lying midfielder near the end of the window.

My focus is on how the team is going to develop as a proactive attacking unit. And it looks like the GK is incoming in that regard which for me is a big step towards transitioning into being a more dominant team. We seem to be under financial constraints but so far we seem to be heading into the the right direction as far as developing the team towards a more proactive play-style.

Excellent post.

 

[sglowrider]

Clubs hire all manner of people in those positions. I can bet you've never heard of the people who are in similar roles at other clubs before they got appointed. The people who do get those jobs are in the background and only get name famous when they get the promotion either at their current club or at a new club poaching them.
It's just ridiculous.
Tell me you knew who Frederic Massara, Paul Winstanley and Jorg Schmadtke were before they got their current jobs.

Nail on the head. People are constantly criticising them when they have no idea what the scope of their roles is never mind who they are. Just pick the convenient scapegoat.

 

[sglowrider]

starting to look like we're gonna fill all the major gaps in the team this summer

first time that will have happened for a while right?

in the middle of a takeover too

I think ETH knew the big issue was to transition faster from defence to attack ie build up faster. Last season he went for de Jong who he wanted to progress the ball upfield. Now that we got Casemiro, we will have to make do with a Mount and an Onana. It is like a McFred combo.
Not what he envisioned but its a workaround to not getting one player who could have done it all for him, instead of two.

 

[Tiber]

I still can't get past that he has spent 140 million (maybe a bit more) on Antony and Mount. No wonder teams think they can rip of us on every deal

 

[Bebestation]

I still get past that he has spent 140 million (maybe a bit more) on Antony and Mount. No wonder teams think they can rip of us on every deal

I think if the unamed didn’t do illegal things then Antony wouldn’t have happened.

He seems to have needed to buy a RW than exactly want to buy a RW - possibly leading him to buy the RW he knew at Ajax.

I think Nunez at 86, Keita at 54, Luis Diaz at 50, Gakpo at 50 and now szoboszlai at 60 should ease your pain a tincy bit for a while.

 

[golden_blunder]

Completely agree.

I think you’re talking though your hat btw. We replace murtough under the same structure then you have the same problems. Murtough is a symptom of the structure not the other way round

 

[golden_blunder]

I still can't get past that he has spent 140 million (maybe a bit more) on Antony and Mount. No wonder teams think they can rip of us on every deal

Mount is a fair price. Not sure what people were expecting

 

[Cloud7]

Woodward would have paid the original £80m asking price that Chelsea wanted

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Compared to that, Murtough is levels above.

It's a bit of a weird one because Woody never really seemed like he negotiated prices down well for us, but at the same time transfers still took forever. Who knows what he really was doing

 

[luke511]

I still can't get past that he has spent 140 million (maybe a bit more) on Antony and Mount. No wonder teams think they can rip of us on every deal

He needs to go after the takeover, he has an awful perception of player value. Him paying more than his final take it or leave it offer should sums it up perfectly, every club in negotiation with him is going to take the piss because they know they can.

 

[pascell]

I think you’re talking though your hat btw. We replace murtough under the same structure then you have the same problems. Murtough is a symptom of the structure not the other way round

Thanks, for that, likewise.

Murtough is terrible in his position and out of his depth. Take a look at his remit.

 

[Halftrack]

Didn't know we had so many experts in football finance, contract negotiations and player transfers on here. Wonder why they're all posting on the Caf about it instead of working for top clubs?

 

[luke511]

Didn't know we had so many experts in football finance, contract negotiations and player transfers on here. Wonder why they're all posting on the Caf about it instead of working for top clubs?

A redcafe voting system would have the club in a better position than these jokers over the last decade. It doesn't take an expert to realise how shocking this club's been when it has come to wasteful spending.

 

[Roboc7]

Would any other top club hire Murtough to be Director of Football? If there's a takeover and he gets fired, will Madrid, Munich or Milan be his next destination?

Man Utd used to be about excellence. Now it's about giving people a chance just in case. Players and staff alike. So many at the club overstay their time cos they might come good, stop getting injured, show they can do it. Murtough is just another example.

When he ultimately goes the only way will be down. City has an ex Barcelona Football Director. We have a guy who came here with Moyes and who survived by being Woodward's chief lieutenant.

Probably not but no top DOF would have taken the role under the same conditions or lasted long if they did. He’s the best fit for what the Glazers want which is why he got the job.

Even if he is good at the job I doubt he has anything close to enough power or influence to show it.

 

[Newstyle]

When the sale is processed I would not be very surprised if Arnold and Murtough doesn’t set a foot in Manchester again.

 

[Halftrack]

A redcafe voting system would have the club in a better position than these jokers over the last decade. It doesn't take an expert to realise how shocking this club's been when it has come to wasteful spending.

Ok

 

[Cassidy]

Ok

A redcafe voting system would have the club in a better position than these jokers over the last decade. It doesn't take an expert to realise how shocking this club's been when it has come to wasteful spending.

Seen some crazy takes on redcafe and most people were happy with many of our signings who then flopped

 

[luke511]

Seen some crazy takes on redcafe and most people were happy with many of our signings who then flopped

There have been many signings and contract renewals people weren’t sure/happy with and have flopped too.

 

[golden_blunder]

A redcafe voting system would have the club in a better position than these jokers over the last decade. It doesn't take an expert to realise how shocking this club's been when it has come to wasteful spending.

I think you need to separate what’s going on this summer with previous windows because it’s not normal

 

[flappyjay]

There have been many signings and contract renewals people weren’t sure/happy with and have flopped too.

At worst redcafe would have voted to get an experienced DoF.

 

[golden_blunder]

There have been many signings and contract renewals people weren’t sure/happy with and have flopped too.

Let me ask you this, is there a DoF out there that has a perfect record? If yes, I’d like to hear who it is. They are human too and will make mistakes which they learn from.

 

[UnitedSofa]

At worst redcafe would have voted to get an experienced DoF.

Name me your top 10.

 

[luke511]

Let me ask you this, is there a DoF out there that has a perfect record? If yes, I’d like to hear who it is. They are human too and will make mistakes which they learn from.

Yes, the good DoF learns from their mistakes, the bad DoF pays more than their public take it or leave it offer.