Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

[Matt851]

It's the right move but demonstrates laughable incompetence. They made a decision and then u turned on it because people got angry when it was entirely predictable people would get angry

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Embarrassing.

you don't know the meaning of the word.

 

[Withnail]

I have to applaud UTD. Not many corporations would do this. Greenwood is easily the most talented player in the club. He could go on to a Madrid or Barcelona and become a future ballon d'or winner. This decision cost UTD a super talented player and possibly millions. Whether you think he's guilty or not, or you have criticisms on how UTD got to the decision, you can't deny that UTD this was the costlier option in the long run.
On Greenwood, what was released on social media was released. I don't think his guilt or innocence can be discussed online or in forums in a healthy way. Its fair to discuss what the decision cost and meant for UTD and how they got there. But I'd avoid the innocence talk as we see from social media its pretty dark. In the end I support UTD decision. Wish well for Mason's GF . I think Mason footballing wise will be fine if he stays focused. And all you can is that its a learning experience for him.

Not many companies would reverse their decision in the face of a potential PR shit storm? I've got news for you

 

[Fts 74]

The correct decision no doubt about it.The clubs statement I'm not sure does anyone any favours really, a bit of damned if you do damned if you don't feel about it.

As for Greenwood, I really hope he's learned something from the whole situation and is better for it going forward no doubt some clubs out there will snap him up.

 

[Ricardo de la Vega]

How can anyone in their right mind excuse or justify what we heard?

Mason: “move your fecking legs up”

Her: “no Mason I don’t want to have sex”

Mason: “I don’t give a feck what you want… push me off one more fecking time and watch what happens to you”.


What "context" can you use to excuse this?

I dont know the context of it, therefore I can attach very little weight to it as evidence of wrongdoing. I would want to see what the accuser said of it under oath, what Mason said in respect of it under oath; its entirely irrelevant without any context.

 

[Giggsy13]

Get over it. I am talking about people wishing the club to lose and some other nasty comments.

It was going to generate this type of response either way, doesn’t mean anyone should be banned for expressing an opinion different from yours.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I think it's sad that I feel uncomfortable discussing this in the sense that not outright condemning him off the bat means you side with him in the eyes of many. I don't wish to engage in speculation as to what happened etc only to try and look at what facts we know and be as objective as possible.

same here.

 

[Smores]

How do you know what constituted their investigation? I'm sure he had to take all factors into consideration, seeing as there is a legal aspect to this. He most certainly would have been privy to what the police had. Plus the police said they also had new evidence which neither the club nor the police seem willing to make public. So it's not straightforward. Let's stop dragging our club for a minute.

Police don't hand over evidence to employers. The club in their statement even called out it was limited and relied on third party statements. That's all HR can do legally.

Without being purposefully ridiculous we all know the new evidence is the victim making a statement explaining it away. The fact some are standing behind the ridiculous notion it can't be 100% proven says a lot about them (and nothing good).

 

[Redlambs]

• We were provided with alternative explanations for the audio recording, which was a short excerpt from a much longer recording, and for the images posted online.
• The alleged victim's family participated in the process and were given the opportunity to review and correct our factual findings.

Who's "we"?

Because the club didn't get an explanation from her via her family. We don't know if the police did.

So both the police and club have cleared him of any wrong doing, the victim continued a romantic relationship and had a child with him, so why is he being let go?

This is untrue completely. First of all, the police passed it to the CPS...that's NOT clearing him

Secondly, both the club and Greenwood have both said he infact DID do something/things wrong.

 

[gaffs]

Astounding comment from the club to say they are "satisfied" he didn't do what he was charged with.
Would love to know how that's been agreed upon.

Because they are were told a cock and bull story to negate the initial alligations.

And because the club are talking out of both sides of their mouth because we all know they were very close to reinistating him last week.

Plus, we dont know what their plans are for him. Are they still paying his wages? Could they sell him? Have they come out and said he was effectively "innocent" as a way to clean up Masons reputation so he can move on asap and come off the wage bill?

 

[NotThatSoph]

I think it's sad that I feel uncomfortable discussing this in the sense that not outright condemning him off the bat means you side with him in the eyes of many. I don't wish to engage in speculation as to what happened etc only to try and look at what facts we know and be as objective as possible.

You've got the most comments in this thread. If this is you being uncomfortable I'd hate to see you comfortable.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Strictly talking about football, what a fecking waste. I didn’t rate him as highly as others but was clearly very talented.

Personally I thought that, with the right development, he could've become our Salah. Maybe without the insane straight line speed but enough to break free from defenders and finish.

 

[killerboi2]

Unfortunately the club should now remove Best's holy trinity statue or it's just selective cancel culture.

 

[Giggsy13]

Odd and dumb question, is Greenwood essentially going on loan or is it an official release? I assumed release but never know. Just vague wording of rebuilding away from the club, doesn't mean he's gone for good

I am 99.9% sure he is hopefully gone for good but wanted to check I am just reading too much into it

He’s gone for good. I don’t think he’d release that statement without knowing his career is done at United.

 

[Withnail]

It means the police like nothing better than charging a public figure with something and then take ages to conclude the investigation in an attempt to save face for wasting police time and public money in the first place. I would argue that the whole incident could have been cleared up with 3-4 weeks by talking to all parties involved. Its not like they spent all that time actually investagting the whole thing. The police force is in a bigger mess than Man Utd. I think UTD have made a big mistake showing this kid the door. But thats public opinion for you - you'll all be distracted by something else soon and this lad is on the scrapheap.
Well done to all concerned.

Car crash of a post

 

[Berbaclass]

You've got the most comments in this thread. If this is you being uncomfortable I'd hate to see you comfortable.

Stop being petty. Most of them are replying to people.

 

[NZT-One]

Imagine the same scenario in an office?

Would you be cool with having him in your team?

Bad example. If you are not cool with having a certain individual on your team, you are free to leave it.

There is a reason why most countries try to establish a legal system where the only force is executed by the state. The state is the best equipped to deal with that sort of stuff. If you feel it isn't really working, than you have different things to move forward than individual court cases.

 

[Sunny Jim]

More likely I would say is that United had to get Greenwood's sign-off /approval of it so they can mutually terminate his contract, and having that line in the statement was part of his terms.

that makes sense

 

[Valencia's Left Foot]

I’d say the CPS acknowledging there was practically no chance of conviction after a 12 month investigation is pretty good evidence that there is clearly more to this than we’ll ever know.

I don’t know why random internet warriors think they know better though - that seems even more backwards to me.

Nah, I'd rather just trust what the angry mob has to say on twitter...they never get things wrong.

 

[HTG]

you don't know the meaning of the word.

May I ask you a general question on the topic? Do you consider O.J. Simpson to be innocent?

 

[Redlambs]

I know I'm going to get it for saying this, but I've always thought that picture was weird.

Busted lips are normally on the inside, also there was zero blood on her top.

Anyway, congratulations to the couple and I hope they find piece and a good place to raise their child.

Maybe I've just become cynical after the Amber Heard case

Christ almighty.

So both the club and Greenwood himself have commented on the posts, and neither have said they are fake, and yet you still think they could be?

This has nothing to do with that other case, it's not even remotely comparable and she is nothing like Heard in this situation. Heads need wobbling.

 

[JPRouve]

Comparing her to Heard is an absolute scumbag move.

And anyone still suggesting the evidence is fake is an absolutely fecking moron of the highest order consider the statements today.

The second sentence is key, everyone acknowledge the veracity of the pictures and audio. What they say is that he didn't go further than the audio and that the audio is longer. Which if I'm not mistaken means that he isn't a rapist but he is morally bankrupt simply due to what he said before not going further.

If true then the case has been rightfully dropped but in my opinion it doesn't mean that he should be welcomed at United. People can disagree with that but it's one of the lines I draw, when I have a choice I don't associate with that type of characters.

 

[Sunny Jim]

Yep, the club like the government clearly leaked a few snippets about his potential return to gauge the response.
Found out the response (apart from idiots who favour a game over real life) was massively negative and change their mind pretty damn quick.

Yep, im 100% sure United tested waters before making any call

 

[Withnail]

Not surprising given modern day cancel culture. Might as well take down statues of George Best as well. He would have been doomed in today's game.

Exactly, We should. He used to beat his wife.

 

[Ady87]

I think it's sad that I feel uncomfortable discussing this in the sense that not outright condemning him off the bat means you side with him in the eyes of many. I don't wish to engage in speculation as to what happened etc only to try and look at what facts we know and be as objective as possible.

This. I work in Liverpool and the schadenfrude in the office is like nothing I’ve ever seen. I can’t even begin to have a semi-sensible objective conversation about it without getting abuse hurled in my direction - but these guys have no intention of having an honest talk about it. I find it doubly frustrating having known all of them for 10 years and heard very tasteless things out of their mouths in the past but all of a sudden they’re beacons of morality.

 

[mu4c_20le]

So both the club and Greenwood himself have commented on the posts, and neither have said they are fake, and yet you still think they could be?

To be fair, just because they haven't said anything doesn't mean it couldn't be. Why would they say that? It would destroy her.

 

[Berbaclass]

Christ almighty.

So both the club and Greenwood himself have commented on the posts, and neither have said they are fake, and yet you still think they could be?

This has nothing to do with that other case, it's not even remotely comparable and she is nothing like Heard in this situation. Heads need wobbling.

Likely because of the abuse that would follow.

 

[Marwood]

Is this the woman who is currently still with him, and expecting a baby?

Yes and I see your point. How could she get back with him.

On the flipside if she's made it up how could Mason get back with her.

Which of the two scenarios seems more plausible?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

The comparison of the picture of Amber Heard with that of M. G's alleged victim is not to show that the alleged victim is a liar. It's rather to show that using the leaked pictures as "proof of guilt' argument when one has no access to all the evidence in its full context is 100% fallacious.

 

[L1nk]

For me, this whole issue boils down to a simple question of whether, as a society, we want to respect the rulings of our legal system or not.

The simple fact of the matter is that our judicial process ended with the determination that Mason Greenwood need not even stand trial. Therefore, we must treat him as an innocent man.

Ultimately, if the “evidence” that was publicly available was sufficient in and of itself, then Mason Greenwood would be in prison.

We are perfectly entitled to critique the way our justice system works in order to iteratively improve its inevitable flaws, but we can never disregard its rulings and sentence people by mob rule.

The problem is that our legal system is not perfect. There's multiple factors that go into it but it's a fact that a lot of sexual assault either doesn't get reported or gets no conviction because again, it's not perfect. There are thousands of people who have got away with these kinds of situations free to walk the streets because of our legal system.

He may or may not have done anything. But things are reported as thus, he was arrested and charged, whilst on bail he broke those bail conditions in order to visit the victim, after that the witness refuses to testify and apparently new evidence emerges, without the key witness they cannot prosecute so the case is dropped, Greenwood emerges as being back with his partner, who is now pregnant and you know the rest.

So I don't believe he's as innocent as being made out by people, especially convenient that he breaks bail conditions to visit the victim and not long after not only is she pregnant but it might also have been the victim that drops out of being a witness.

Some of that is speculation of course, but the bail bit is true.

It's also true that many many victims of abuse stay with the abuser for a long time, these are all statistics you can look up, for people who are saying "but they're together again and have a baby now"

 

[mu4c_20le]

This. I work in Liverpool and the schadenfrude in the office is like nothing I’ve ever seen. I can’t even begin to have a semi-sensible objective conversation about it without getting abuse hurled in my direction - but these guys have no intention of having an honest talk about it. I find it doubly frustrating having known all of them for 10 years and heard very tasteless things out of their mouths in the past but all of a sudden they’re beacons of morality.

It's like The Purge.

 

[Lay]

Not surprising given modern day cancel culture. Might as well take down statues of George Best as well. He would have been doomed in today's game.

Interesting. Out of genuine curiosity where was Gazza playing when it came out he was beating his wife? Was there a huge uproar then too? I only vaguely remember the headlines

 

[Pogba's Barber]

Apologies for being a bit graphic and explicit, but I feel I have to raise something which stands like an elephant in the room for me..

Has anybody considered whether there may have been an element of CNC (consensual non-consent) in Greenwood's relationship, or are people even aware of this type of of dynamic can exist in a healthy/happy relationship?

This was something that crossed my mind, but I haven't heard anybody address the possibility of so-called "rape-play" which is actually somewhat common (see article above) in today's younger generation. Sorry to be explicit but it can include choking and punching during sex, being tied up etc. It's a kink and both parties consent to the use of such force.

I recognise that a football forum probably isn't the best place to have mature or serious discussion on sex and relationships, but I think its important to consider this type of possibility when making assessments on Greenwood's guilt for domestic violence and assault.

I think it's relevant here as none of us know the full story of what was actually going on, and we can only make reasonable assumptions based on all scenarios.

 

[Baxquux]

Yep, the club like the government clearly leaked a few snippets about his potential return to gauge the response.
Found out the response (apart from idiots who favour a game over real life) was massively negative and change their mind pretty damn quick.

Might want to check your own intelligence, I'm afraid. Plenty of cogent justifications here as to why being open-minded in terms of MG's return, given the new facts available - and including statements relating to further facts whose specifics were not made available to the public but which had been deemed exculpatory - was a reasonable and even 'moral' position. No-one except an actual idiot or partisan would claim it unequivocally proves his innocence. But then again it's much harder to absolutely prove a negative, short of something physically impossible (like 'having assaulted a person when you can be unequivocally proved to have been halfway across the world when it happened etc).

The only real considerations in this case are whether the hysteria and potential distraction relating to the remaining half-life of his news story ( and there'll be plenty of media sources looking to generate new forms of sensation or commentary around it if they can, in their financial/professional interest) is likely to overly affect the player, his family and club to the point where it's better for him to move on.

 

[Oranges038]

There’s so much we don’t know so it’s difficult to speculate - but the club statement states that in April 2022 - months before the charges were even made - the alleged victim asked for the case to be withdrawn. It’s been repeatedly stated on here as a fact that she was the key witness that withdrew - that doesn’t seem to tally with that piece of information.

While that assumption might not be correct. It's just very hard to see who else would have been a key witness.

 

[Redlyn]

That is fair.

But when people are out here saying the images are fake, that is equally offensive.

You dont know ANYTHING about the pictures though so I dont know on which basis your are offended.

 

[gaffs]

Bad example. If you are not cool with having a certain individual on your team, you are free to leave it.

There is a reason why most countries try to establish a legal system where the only force is executed by the state. The state is the best equipped to deal with that sort of stuff. If you feel it isn't really working, than you have different things to move forward than individual court cases.

It is a perfectly good example. No "regular" workplace on earth would allow him to continue in his job under the same circumstances.

 

[stw2022]

Abusers coercing their victims into being front and centre of promoting the narrative that they have some kind of reason or mitigation for doing what they did, is quite common. Usually it's done within families and friendship groups and not on this scale.

 

[Canuckred64]

I have to disagree with the decision. In United's statement they say based on the evidence available to us, we have concluded that the material posted online did not provide a full picture and that Mason did not commit the offences in respect of which he was originally charged. If the club feel he didn't commit the offences, then they should stand by him. If what was posted online did not provide the full picture, then give us the full picture, so we can fully understand this decision. Otherwise, it looks like Greenwood has been convicted in the court of public opinion and the club are more concerned with any likely backlash than the well being of a player who has been with the club since he was 7.

 

[Redlambs]

To be fair, just because they haven't said anything doesn't mean it couldn't be. Why would they say that? It would destroy her.

Likely because of the abuse that would follow.

That's the thing though, it's the same scenario as trying to justify that audio.