Are our fans quicker to complain than they used to be 10 years ago?

Tyrion

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We've been shite in the first two games, no argument here (though I'd point out we won one which no-one seems to remember) but I'm surprised at how quickly everyone here has gotten so negative. ETH is suddenly being questioned after being praised about 2 weeks ago, Mount is now useless, Casemiro is past it, Bruno isn't reliable etc.

The forum seems to have pulled a complete 180 because of a bad 8 days. Granted, its probably because there's really negative posters that only bother to post when we lose and the more positive ones are less likely to post now so it's probably not the same posters but I've still been surprised at how little it took for the mood to change and I don't think it was like this years ago.

Is this because of other things like the eternal sale or the *You know what* debacle that the club has mismanaged over the last week or are we just much quicker to complain after several years of underperformance?
 

Theonas

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Well of course because 10 years ago, we had credit in the bank and there was more optimism that bad form will be turned around. It's the complete opposite now and every bad result or slump brings back memories of the thousand ones that preceded it in the past 10 years.
 

Stack

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Im not sure, I remember some of the moaning when Fergie was in charge. There were higher expectations then so people moaned if we werent meeting those expectations. Now we are all hoping for a great revival and are moaning because we arent hitting that.
 

Oranges038

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I like a moan, but after 2 games the level of whingery is astounding.

Can you imagine the meltdown when Utd lost 3-1 to Villa on the first day after Fergie had just sold several big players and replaced them with kids?

Alan Hansen would have been getting his balls tongued from every angle.
 

Big Ben Foster

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It's easier to be jaded and cynical after so many false dawns
 

el3mel

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We have been shit for 11 years. 11 years without challenging even once for the major trophies like PL or CL, struggling to finish top 4 every year (some times even top 6). We have become a banter club used for memes and only good in getting liked and retweets on social media. We have been playing awful football as well for the majority of these 11 years.

Yet it's the fans who are knee jerk and quick to complain.

Amazing stuff.
 

Bubz27

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We'll be worse when we actually win something decent again.
 

Ole'sgunnarwin

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There are people not happy with how the club are run, managerial decisions, transfers, selections, player performance etc. It's been such a poor 10 years and everyone has a right to point out where it's gone or where it's going wrong. The most complaining I'm seeing here are people complaining about complaining. What do people expect coming on to this place?
 

hobbers

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12 years of seeing the exact same patterns of failure repeat every 2 seasons will do that to a fanbase.
 

Cloud7

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We've largely been crap for the last ten years, with many false dawns. Of course the fanbase is going to be more frustrated/get frustrated faster than when we were just out of the SAF era where we always knew that things would get better sooner rather than later. The frustration is totally understandable.
 

noodlehair

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No.

When we were good 1 bad result would be the end of everything and lead to mass caf hysteria.

Now its still the same except the bad results happen often enough for it to maybe not be hysterical.
 

acolyte

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Yes, obviously we would be. Ten years ago we were conditioned by two decades of success to have trust in the club and its management. Well into the second half of the 2013-14 season you could still find diehards on here pushing the "Moyes deserves time" and "United aren't a sacking club" nonsense, simply because many of us didn't know what gross mismanagement looked like and didn't believe it could happen to us. With the benefit of time we can now take a clearer view of what's been done to the club and the different trajectories of us vs our closest rivals.

Basically we were drunk off continuous success back then. We've sobered up now.
 

Tyrion

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I like a moan, but after 2 games the level of whingery is astounding.

Can you imagine the meltdown when Utd lost 3-1 to Villa on the first day after Fergie had just sold several big players and replaced them with kids?

Alan Hansen would have been getting his balls tongued from every angle.
If Ferguson was appointed today, there'd be fans calling for him to be sacked a month in.

We have been shit for 11 years. 11 years without challenging even once for the major trophies like PL or CL, struggling to finish top 4 every year (some times even top 6). We have become a banter club used for memes and only good in getting liked and retweets on social media. We have been playing awful football as well for the majority of these 11 years.

Yet it's the fans who are knee jerk and quick to complain.

Amazing stuff.
I'm not saying fans are wrong to moan after 11 years. But Mount, ETH and Casemiro haven't been here 11 years.

What I'm saying is people were mostly positive about 2 weeks ago. 11 years justifies complaining but 2 games doesn't and that's all its taken for the complete shift in attitude here. If you're not being consistent than yes, it is knee jerk to get angry after just 2 games.

Either that or the people who are consistently annoyed because of the last 11 years just dont post unless we lose so I didn't notice them until the last game.
 

tentan

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ument here (though I'd point out we won one which no-one seems to remember) but I'm surprised at how quickly everyone here has gotten so negative. ETH is suddenly being questioned after being praised about 2 weeks ago, Mount is now useless, Casemiro is past it, Bruno isn't reliable etc.
All those are probably true.
 

Fortitude

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The answer to this won't be what you're expecting. Complaining is relative and there was no less of it then than there is now, but what has happened is that what the fanbase complains about, and how certain it is to make up its mind and be adamant it is an issue, carries a heavier tone as the dissenting voices are vociferous, with good reason.

Ten years ago takes us back to 2013. As a fanbase, we'd have been absolutely used to - and expectant of - domestic success and our aspirations would most certainly have been to lock horns with the best in the world in pursuit of more Champions League trophies. Dissenting voices against the manager himself would have been drowned out, but gripes about playing style or team selection would have been aired, not en masse, but noticeably enough for talking points to be discussed. Issues with the Glazers abound, but Ferguson still winning despite his hands being tied, and quelling upheaval would again keep the lid on anger and annoyance. With Ferguson at the helm, gripes could only be small and there was merit to him figuring things out, ergo, doubt could never be absolute.

Now? We've seen everything enough times over to be stuck in a Groundhog's Day loop of misery and despair. Relative to the glory days of the aforementioned Ferguson era, these are the darkest times some of the fanbase have ever experienced, and even for those who grew up with or before Fergie's era, this is a different kind of uncertainty because it's a team and collection of individuals that are hard to identify with and a club that is harder to connect with and back than it ever has been. Not only has the football been bad, what the club stand for and the values most were raised on are being eroded.

The Post-Ferguson era has also ushered in civil war(s) amongst the fanbase; people selectively picking managers - and players - to back to the very end and defending them to the hilt, whilst giving others extremely short shrift. Such things didn't exist ten years ago; the fanbase was nowhere near as fractured or entrenched in opposing camps - we're the most disenfranchised fanbase in the country; no other club has infighting to this degree. It's been a huge turnaround from the United against the world days that had us despised for our unity and collective certainty of purpose.

The: 'It's been 1, 2, 5 10 games' thing is also wearing thin and so people who once held their tongue and let things run their [obvious] course are more outspoken and certain in their belief that things are wrong because they've seen it all before. Lest we forget it took only two games for LVG to do a complete about turn in how he approached an entire season previously, and just last season, ETH himself succinctly arrested a perceived slide by entering the transfer market after a hammering by Brentford in the second game of the season. If managers can change tact in such short order because they see things are in need of immediate address, it shouldn't be a surprise when a weary, and by now, rather conditioned fanbase does the same. We know more than a thing or two about failure, feck ups and calamitous goings on at varying points in a season. Same goes for players; the benefit of the doubt is not there and there is less credit in the bank or tolerance for failing, but not for failing's sake, rather, in the hope issues get fixed and addressed to avoid the whole script being force-fed over a whole campaign, yet again.

Ten years is a really long time for a giant to be in the doldrums. What is a concern is we rarely look like we're moving forward - if it's not one thing going wrong, it's another, and the net result is we mostly appear inert, certainly when a wider net is cast and analysed. There isn't more or faster complaining than 10 years ago as a whole, but the topics for complaint are rawer, more serious, more certain and more egregious - we've gone from relative 1st world problems of a giant club not doing as well as it should in the Champions League, peered to other giants, to a club with so many issues that you can take your pick of what you wish to be up in arms about at any given time. You're not going to pay much attention to a complaint about 'zombie football' whilst your team is winning the league, compared to the knives being out for, say, Mason Mount before his United career has really gotten underway. What we have now is far more volatility, anger, intensity and frustration; you can say these things are quicker to rear their head and that what was a slowburn in the past in that sphere has gone, but the speed at which complaints are made? No, that hasn't changed, but the topics of conversation have.
 

Nani Nana

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Has it been tougher to be a United fan than in the past weeks and months, surrendering the league to our arch-rivals, watching them lift the Champions League where we have been anonymous in years, false hopes with regards to an ownership change, which is really the one thing needed at this point. Countless players brought in for absurd fees whilst our academy products are suspended for shameful behaviour.

United used to stand for a certain football spirit, a bravado going forward, attacking time and space but there is no potent striker to bury chances any longer, no RVN or RVP, no Rooney, not even a one-off Macheda up front. On the contrary we leak goals to average teams on a weekly basis.

For me United fans have shown patience in the toughest of downfalls witnessed by a football club over a decade.
 

croadyman

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We've been shite in the first two games, no argument here (though I'd point out we won one which no-one seems to remember) but I'm surprised at how quickly everyone here has gotten so negative. ETH is suddenly being questioned after being praised about 2 weeks ago, Mount is now useless, Casemiro is past it, Bruno isn't reliable etc.

The forum seems to have pulled a complete 180 because of a bad 8 days. Granted, its probably because there's really negative posters that only bother to post when we lose and the more positive ones are less likely to post now so it's probably not the same posters but I've still been surprised at how little it took for the mood to change and I don't think it was like this years ago.

Is this because of other things like the eternal sale or the *You know what* debacle that the club has mismanaged over the last week or are we just much quicker to complain after several years of underperformance?
Things started to go wrong when Maguire wouldn't leave due to not getting a big enough payoff. We just haven't been able to catch a break these last two weeks since then
 

tenpoless

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Not only limited to football fans, it also applies to other people since the age of social media they tend to express themselves more.
 

KikiDaKats

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Nope. Football has always been about reactions, especially at the highest level.

SAF was loved and over time he banked a lot of credit but fans also had things to say when we were losing or playing poorly. Do people forget it was us the fans calling our football “zombie football” towards the end of his reign. It’s not a new phenomenon.
 

Partridge

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I'm not panicking. It's been two games. I was disappointed by the lack of movement in the wolves game in the second half. Some of it reminded me of van gaal football. Pass, pass to the side, pass back, and repeat. No Feckin movement off the ball. Hopefully, ten hag will have given them a serious bollocking.
 

Trex

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I feel Mourinho brought an element of toxicity that hasn't gone away before him United fanbase weren't this negative.
 

CtrlAltDeLigt

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Agree with OP, excessive meme culture around united have made fans a bit quicker to complain.

Can’t blame anyone who’s complaining, the club has made poor decisions in the past, but you should also account for the fact that last season was one of the better seasons since Sir Alex left, in terms of play style. Looked like team was building towards something.

Personally I feel Ten Hag has warranted some time given the past season and him trying something completely new.
 

padzilla

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10 years ago we were the reigning Premier League champions, since then we have had a decade of shite with clowns like Arnold and Woodward running the show.
 

Cloud7

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The answer to this won't be what you're expecting. Complaining is relative and there was no less of it then than there is now, but what has happened is that what the fanbase complains about, and how certain it is to make up its mind and be adamant it is an issue, carries a heavier tone as the dissenting voices are vociferous, with good reason.

Ten years ago takes us back to 2013. As a fanbase, we'd have been absolutely used to - and expectant of - domestic success and our aspirations would most certainly have been to lock horns with the best in the world in pursuit of more Champions League trophies. Dissenting voices against the manager himself would have been drowned out, but gripes about playing style or team selection would have been aired, not en masse, but noticeably enough for talking points to be discussed. Issues with the Glazers abound, but Ferguson still winning despite his hands being tied, and quelling upheaval would again keep the lid on anger and annoyance. With Ferguson at the helm, gripes could only be small and there was merit to him figuring things out, ergo, doubt could never be absolute.

Now? We've seen everything enough times over to be stuck in a Groundhog's Day loop of misery and despair. Relative to the glory days of the aforementioned Ferguson era, these are the darkest times some of the fanbase have ever experienced, and even for those who grew up with or before Fergie's era, this is a different kind of uncertainty because it's a team and collection of individuals that are hard to identify with and a club that is harder to connect with and back than it ever has been. Not only has the football been bad, what the club stand for and the values most were raised on are being eroded.

The Post-Ferguson era has also ushered in civil war(s) amongst the fanbase; people selectively picking managers - and players - to back to the very end and defending them to the hilt, whilst giving others extremely short shrift. Such things didn't exist ten years ago; the fanbase was nowhere near as fractured or entrenched in opposing camps - we're the most disenfranchised fanbase in the country; no other club has infighting to this degree. It's been a huge turnaround from the United against the world days that had us despised for our unity and collective certainty of purpose.

The: 'It's been 1, 2, 5 10 games' thing is also wearing thin and so people who once held their tongue and let things run their [obvious] course are more outspoken and certain in their belief that things are wrong because they've seen it all before. Lest we forget it took only two games for LVG to do a complete about turn in how he approached an entire season previously, and just last season, ETH himself succinctly arrested a perceived slide by entering the transfer market after a hammering by Brentford in the second game of the season. If managers can change tact in such short order because they see things are in need of immediate address, it shouldn't be a surprise when a weary, and by now, rather conditioned fanbase does the same. We know more than a thing or two about failure, feck ups and calamitous goings on at varying points in a season. Same goes for players; the benefit of the doubt is not there and there is less credit in the bank or tolerance for failing, but not for failing's sake, rather, in the hope issues get fixed and addressed to avoid the whole script being force-fed over a whole campaign, yet again.

Ten years is a really long time for a giant to be in the doldrums. What is a concern is we rarely look like we're moving forward - if it's not one thing going wrong, it's another, and the net result is we mostly appear inert, certainly when a wider net is cast and analysed. There isn't more or faster complaining than 10 years ago as a whole, but the topics for complaint are rawer, more serious, more certain and more egregious - we've gone from relative 1st world problems of a giant club not doing as well as it should in the Champions League, peered to other giants, to a club with so many issues that you can take your pick of what you wish to be up in arms about at any given time. You're not going to pay much attention to a complaint about 'zombie football' whilst your team is winning the league, compared to the knives being out for, say, Mason Mount before his United career has really gotten underway. What we have now is far more volatility, anger, intensity and frustration; you can say these things are quicker to rear their head and that what was a slowburn in the past in that sphere has gone, but the speed at which complaints are made? No, that hasn't changed, but the topics of conversation have.
Top post
 

Cloud7

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I feel Mourinho brought an element of toxicity that hasn't gone away before him United fanbase weren't this negative.
It's the accumulation over time I think. The toxicity definitely started during the Moyes era where some fans were so entrenched in "SAF saw something in Moyes and he said to back the manager" that the fanbase was, for the first time in my life, hugely divided. It just continued to get worse, and of course was made worse by someone like Mourinho, but I think it was mostly accumulation rather than him specifically.
 

MancunianAngels

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It’s definitely worse now and it’s 100% social media’s fault
Yep, that and 24/7 news channels.

I made a similar point in another thread but if social media had been around from the mid 80s, Fergie would have been long gone by the early 90s. There were banners in the ground calling for his sacking but the board and Fergie himself were able to ride that out for a period because there wasn't the constant pressure