Are our fans quicker to complain than they used to be 10 years ago?

[Red_toad]

I‘d say it’s a societal thing. Seems everyone wants to be an activist and endlessly complain about anything and everything.

 

[redIndianDevil]

The answer to this won't be what you're expecting. Complaining is relative and there was no less of it then than there is now, but what has happened is that what the fanbase complains about, and how certain it is to make up its mind and be adamant it is an issue, carries a heavier tone as the dissenting voices are vociferous, with good reason.

Ten years ago takes us back to 2013. As a fanbase, we'd have been absolutely used to - and expectant of - domestic success and our aspirations would most certainly have been to lock horns with the best in the world in pursuit of more Champions League trophies. Dissenting voices against the manager himself would have been drowned out, but gripes about playing style or team selection would have been aired, not en masse, but noticeably enough for talking points to be discussed. Issues with the Glazers abound, but Ferguson still winning despite his hands being tied, and quelling upheaval would again keep the lid on anger and annoyance. With Ferguson at the helm, gripes could only be small and there was merit to him figuring things out, ergo, doubt could never be absolute.

Now? We've seen everything enough times over to be stuck in a Groundhog's Day loop of misery and despair. Relative to the glory days of the aforementioned Ferguson era, these are the darkest times some of the fanbase have ever experienced, and even for those who grew up with or before Fergie's era, this is a different kind of uncertainty because it's a team and collection of individuals that are hard to identify with and a club that is harder to connect with and back than it ever has been. Not only has the football been bad, what the club stand for and the values most were raised on are being eroded.

The Post-Ferguson era has also ushered in civil war(s) amongst the fanbase; people selectively picking managers - and players - to back to the very end and defending them to the hilt, whilst giving others extremely short shrift. Such things didn't exist ten years ago; the fanbase was nowhere near as fractured or entrenched in opposing camps - we're the most disenfranchised fanbase in the country; no other club has infighting to this degree. It's been a huge turnaround from the United against the world days that had us despised for our unity and collective certainty of purpose.

The: 'It's been 1, 2, 5 10 games' thing is also wearing thin and so people who once held their tongue and let things run their [obvious] course are more outspoken and certain in their belief that things are wrong because they've seen it all before. Lest we forget it took only two games for LVG to do a complete about turn in how he approached an entire season previously, and just last season, ETH himself succinctly arrested a perceived slide by entering the transfer market after a hammering by Brentford in the second game of the season. If managers can change tact in such short order because they see things are in need of immediate address, it shouldn't be a surprise when a weary, and by now, rather conditioned fanbase does the same. We know more than a thing or two about failure, feck ups and calamitous goings on at varying points in a season. Same goes for players; the benefit of the doubt is not there and there is less credit in the bank or tolerance for failing, but not for failing's sake, rather, in the hope issues get fixed and addressed to avoid the whole script being force-fed over a whole campaign, yet again.

Ten years is a really long time for a giant to be in the doldrums. What is a concern is we rarely look like we're moving forward - if it's not one thing going wrong, it's another, and the net result is we mostly appear inert, certainly when a wider net is cast and analysed. There isn't more or faster complaining than 10 years ago as a whole, but the topics for complaint are rawer, more serious, more certain and more egregious - we've gone from relative 1st world problems of a giant club not doing as well as it should in the Champions League, peered to other giants, to a club with so many issues that you can take your pick of what you wish to be up in arms about at any given time. You're not going to pay much attention to a complaint about 'zombie football' whilst your team is winning the league, compared to the knives being out for, say, Mason Mount before his United career has really gotten underway. What we have now is far more volatility, anger, intensity and frustration; you can say these things are quicker to rear their head and that what was a slowburn in the past in that sphere has gone, but the speed at which complaints are made? No, that hasn't changed, but the topics of conversation have.

Best post i've read in a while in any online forums.

You've hit the nail on the head about "It's been 1, 2, 5 10 games" thing. I'd also add "do you know more about football than a manager" in transfer discussions. It's like every new manager makes these mistakes and the fanbase blindly accepts whatever crap the manager shoves down our throat. The owners and the people who run the club seem very happy to hide behind the manager whilst just signing cheques. Why hasn't it been clear to them that they need football people to help the managers? Why won't they ever try a DoF?

What makes me more mad is these managers once getting this job seem to think too much of themselves. Why couldn't EtH work with Rangnick as a consultant? EtH seemed to have no qualms about working under van der sar at Ajax but here he had to be his own man. It grates me that his options seem to be so limited to players he knows. That's a recipe for disaster especially as he has had very little experience globally.

 

[Lee565]

One could argue our fanbase as a whole doesn't complain enough.

This, we pale in comparison to fanbases that don't allow standards to drop unlike us lot where you had match going fans still clapping moyes in last few remaining games he was in charge and would never have lasted that long at madrid with their fanbase, same with ole

 

[Leethal]

Those people saying no have short memories.

O'Shea, Fletcher, and even Rooney, all copped a proper slagging off back then.

It's no different now than back then, just now there is more way to do it like Twitter, YouTube etc.

 

[jem]

We've largely been crap for the last ten years, with many false dawns. Of course the fanbase is going to be more frustrated/get frustrated faster than when we were just out of the SAF era where we always knew that things would get better sooner rather than later. The frustration is totally understandable.

Exactly. People are being a bit disingenuous wondering how fans could be feeling a dreaded sense of deja vu, when we've had 10 years of this shit. It's not like Rashford looking like he can't be bothered or Bruno losing all composure is something new.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

You could argue that we don't complain about the serious things enough and that we complain about small things too much.

This forum is incredibly reactionary and it is extremely frustrating and predictable. I can sort of understand as we have had so many false dawns so we are just ready for things to fall apart.

Things are never going as well or as badly as reading this place would lead you to believe.

Unless you just read my posts of course, because I'm always right.

 

[AndySmith1990]

Some people seem to live in a bubble where they think United fans moan more than anyone else, and we're the worst support in existence. If they spent just a bit of time browsing fan forums of other clubs they'd realise everyone is at it

All that's really changed in recent years with the rise of social media, is people's intolerance towards differing opinions

 

[L1nk]

In the age of instant gratification, what did you expect? This isn't even a phenomenon exclusive to United fans

Society is now built around the idea that you can get everything at the tap of a finger and society and it's people, especially the younger generation, has changed as a result. Why do you think the average person has less attention span than a Tiktok these days.

Unlimited content at the tap of a button
Anything you want to buy at your doorstep next morning - or sometimes same day
Any kind of food you want delivered within 20 minutes

Brain chemistry has actually changed to register the dopamine hits from these easily attainable things. So is it really any wonder people act the way they do? United are obviously building a long term project, this is why they invested in Hojlund, but you'd think it's the end of Manchester United itself if we don't win the title this season. Social Media hasn't helped in this regard either, everyone just wants to get one up on twitter rivals instead of actually wishing the club great longterm success. The quicker they can get some kind of win, the quicker they can tweet about it and chat shit to some Chelsea or Arsenal fan twitter.

 

[jeepers]

I’m convinced that the Glazers didn’t sign off on selling McT because his “market value” was perceived to be higher by them, and they didn’t sign off on selling Maguire because they didn’t want to pay him off to go.

For the team, I’m just going to keep quiet and watch games. But it is odd they seem much more unfit compared to last season.

 

[Nicolarra90]

We have been shit for 11 years. 11 years without challenging even once for the major trophies like PL or CL, struggling to finish top 4 every year (some times even top 6). We have become a banter club used for memes and only good in getting liked and retweets on social media. We have been playing awful football as well for the majority of these 11 years.

Yet it's the fans who are knee jerk and quick to complain.

Amazing stuff.

We've not been shit for 11 years. We've had good and bad moments, good and bad seasons, but not excellent seasons. Yet, to have an excellent season you need an excellent manager.
The problem is that the 2 best managers of this decade have been directly playing against us for over 5 years and there's not much unless we find a manager who can compete. Is he ETH? It's not clear.
Replace pep and klopp for other managers and perhaps we could have won 1 or 2 PL and the view would have been completely different.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

If anything we tolerate far too much shit compared to supporters of clubs of similar stature.

 

[Yorkeontop]

This is just par for the journey a fallen giant.

 

[Giggsyking]

Do you blame them?

 

[Bilbo]

People will always complain, but the things people are complaining about seem to get increasingly silly and are usually fed from social media driving panic and overreaction

 

[SteveCoppellFan]

Nahh, its just a sign of the times, social media etc has just given the common moaner a platform to be heard.

People are being fed way more negativity these days, that cannot be good moving forward.

 

[crossy1686]

Only just finishing inside the top six clubs in the country, oh the horror !No club has a God given right to win things. All we can do as fans is be patient and enjoy the journey, the bad times will make the good times even better.

A club the size of United with this kind of mentality, just wow. They'd throw you out of Madrid, Turin, Munich or Barcelona if you dared to utter those words even in jest.

 

[el3mel]

We've not been shit for 11 years. We've had good and bad moments, good and bad seasons, but not excellent seasons. Yet, to have an excellent season you need an excellent manager.
The problem is that the 2 best managers of this decade have been directly playing against us for over 5 years and there's not much unless we find a manager who can compete. Is he ETH? It's not clear.
Replace pep and klopp for other managers and perhaps we could have won 1 or 2 PL and the view would have been completely different.

Not challenging for the league title once in 11 years means we have been shit. Winning some tier 2 and 3 trophies is nice but it doesn't make us good. The closest we have been to the top spot was what, 12 whole points? We will be good when we at least close to the top spot.

Arsenal challenged for the league with Pep and Klopp around. This isn't an excuse. United's issue isn't Klopp and Pep. It is that we are awfully run and lack strategy.

 

[crossy1686]

All due to utter dogshit like talksport...meaning we all get bombarded with endless negativity 24/7 all for clicks.

You're giving TalkSport too much credit. Most of the fans on here don't listen to it and some have very insightful opinions.

 

[harms]

As a separate point, I feel that complaining about complaining unfairly avoids due criticism. It’s equally tiresome and it also got way out of hand.

 

[crossy1686]

As a separate point, I feel that complaining about complaining unfairly avoids due criticism. It’s equally tiresome and it also got way out of hand.

You mean where people complain about the people who complaining about what they're seeing on the pitch? There was a serious suggestion by some the other week that there should be a culling for those who have valid complaints about the start of this season/end to last.

 

[RuudTom83]

You're giving TalkSport too much credit. Most of the fans on here don't listen to it and some have very insightful opinions.

"like" talksport...meaning not just talksport, but any other media outlet (SkySports etc) also including fan channels

 

[fps]

Online culture is toxic, disproportionately occupied by men who like to complain and pick things apart, along with the nut jobs/conspiracy theorists who would get short thrift among normal people. So I’m not surprised there are so many frustrated men on here who see their own lives as an extension of Man Utd’s inability to compete for a major title.

Lots of funny and constructive posters here as well mind.

 

[Reyoji-Utd]

If anything, after 10 years of wilderness and the next 10 the same (higher chance because of City and then the race is open from 5/6 teams), there is not much expectation and hence the maoning is not that much now. I see us pay more attention toward transfer muppets seasons than the regular matches.

 

[Nicolarra90]

Not challenging for the league title once in 11 years means we have been shit. Winning some tier 2 and 3 trophies is nice but it doesn't make us good. The closest we have been to the top spot was what, 12 whole points? We will be good when we at least close to the top spot.

Arsenal challenged for the league with Pep and Klopp around. This isn't an excuse. United's issue isn't Klopp and Pep. It is that we are awfully run and lack strategy.

Questionable. They were lucky to skip both city games to the second half of the season. Their challenge would have died way before with a normal schedule.

 

[AltiUn]

On a personal level the 7-0 just caused me to snap, I've run out of patience with the club completely, there's no credit left in the bank. I'm not excusing us getting outplayed by the likes of Wolves and Spurs anymore, 3-4 years ago I would've brushed that sort of thing under the rug, for some process that may or may not be there. Watching City win their treble and the Glazers stalling for an entire year after we got a glimmer of hope that they might finally feck off ... I'm surprised so many people can still be "level-headed"/deluded about us as a team and where we are.

 

[Rightnr]

The Ffia/FantasyFootball/Fm generation, where everyone wants to have the World's best XI in their team and only that, win sextuple every season and score 200+ goals.

How old are you? How dangerous were the dinosaurs?

 

[el3mel]

Questionable. They were lucky to skip both city games to the second half of the season. Their challenge would have died way before with a normal schedule.

And that's better than anything we have achieved in the league these past 10 years.

 

[RedOrange]

Online culture is toxic, disproportionately occupied by men who like to complain and pick things apart, along with the nut jobs/conspiracy theorists who would get short thrift among normal people. So I’m not surprised there are so many frustrated men on here who see their own lives as an extension of Man Utd’s inability to compete for a major title.

Lots of funny and constructive posters here as well mind.

I'd say it's the other way around: they view Man Utd as an extension of themselves, despite not really having anything to do with the club besides watching the matches on television and spending 6 hours a day on RedCafe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism#Primary_Expressions

Vulnerable Narcissism
Narcissistic vulnerability is thought to arise from a combination of the antagonistic core with temperamental reactivity—defined by negative emotionality, social avoidance, passivity and marked proneness to rage. Vulnerability is defined—in addition to antagonism—by a shy, vindictive and needy self-regulatory style.

1. Low and contingent self-esteem, unstable and unclear sense of self, and resentment of others' success
2. Social withdrawal, resulting from shame, distrust of others' intentions, and concerns over being accepted
3. Needy, obsessive relational dynamics; long-term relationship transactions defined by an excessive need for admiration, approval and support, and vengefulness when needs are unmet

Would explain why some people seem make dozens of posts a day, have meltdowns when something doesn't go perfectly, constantly demanding people be benched, sold, sacked, etc..

 

[JuriM]

How old are you? How dangerous were the dinosaurs?

Just in the same generation, 32. From the online fans, you see this kind of approach a lot more now. I hope the fans on the ground are more sensible.

 

[Rightnr]

Just in the same generation, 32. From the online fans, you see this kind of approach a lot more now. I hope the fans on the ground are more sensible.

Sensible being code for 'agree with me', of course.

 

[oreon]

If we had recent sustained success there would be less complaining. It all comes down to trust. For past decade we've seen same pattern. We get a new manager, first year there is improvement. Then year 2 or 3 wheels start to fall off, rinse and repeat. Why should any UTD fan believe its going to be any different especially when there are obvious holes in the XI specifically missing another holding CM and an experienced striker.
And as we've seen before when there's adversity and pressure starts to pill on, the morale on the team collapses.
It's up to the ETH and the UTD board to break this cycle. They need to show 3 seasons of improvements and rebuild confidence within the players and the fans. So that when adversity strikes, there is no panic and everyone can bounce back. But that kind of confidence only comes from winning season after season. Till we see it, why would fans or even players believe this season would be any different than the previous.

 

[Nicolarra90]

And that's better than anything we have achieved in the league these past 10 years.

It's still a second place, and if they don't win it this season it will mean feck all just like our second places.

 

[el3mel]

It's still a second place, and if they don't win it this season it will mean feck all just like our second places.

Our second place finish both times were just glorified top 4 finish. We were out of the title race by December and February respectively. Arsenal actually pushed City and were top spot for many weeks, kept the race going till the last 2 months. We haven't achieved anything even remotely close to that.

Out of the top 6, we're the only team who wasn't at any point close to win the league or challenge for it these last 10 years. Even Spurs and Arsenal challenged for the league while the best we could do is finish 12 points away from the top spot.

 

[GiveItToGi...nowait]

A club the size of United with this kind of mentality, just wow. They'd throw you out of Madrid, Turin, Munich or Barcelona if you dared to utter those words even in jest.

Lucky I’m not there then eh? Wtf does my mentality have to do with the players on the pitch?!
You will enjoy football more when you realise your brain has zero influence on the outcome.

 

[Tyrion]

All those are probably true.

On the basis of two games? Plenty of managers seem to like Mount, Bruno has been our best player and Casemiro made a big difference whenever he played last year.

This.

I don’t mind being disappointed and criticism is perfectly fine.
But more often than not it’s not criticism but just people venting. Just « shite this » and « shite that » and « shambles this ».
There are posters that didn’t post when we had a good run of games last season, but started to post again where our form dipped, who only ever post to be negative. Never a positive word, no debate, no nuance.
Just like Yagami waited 3 months to come back after a bad display from Casemiro for example

That's the impression I get. It's like some posters have certain beliefs and won't post if the form of the team is disproving them (for good or bad), whenever the results back them up they immediately go to post to either rant as they wanted to all along after a lose or to take advantage of a win to insult the 'fake fans' who were critical.

 

[Tyrion]

Lucky I’m not there then eh? Wtf does my mentality have to do with the players on the pitch?!
You will enjoy football more when you realise your brain has zero influence on the outcome.

Exactly. This is a stupid argument that I see brought up a lot. The idea that by fans being really angry they can somehow help the outcome. If we all just channel Keano and glare at the TV, we'll win every game.

Some fans honestly seem to think their mindset is a factor.

 

[stw2022]

I'd say it's the other way around: they view Man Utd as an extension of themselves, despite not really having anything to do with the club besides watching the matches on television and spending 6 hours a day on RedCafe.

We all have nothing to do with the club in that sense. You talk as if you're the commercial director or something. You're as much a part of the club as a fan that goes to a concert or streams a song is part of the band. Or maybe it's "real fans go to concerts, you're a plastic for just streaming it online" if we want to go all in to the: 'Are we fecking four years old or something?' territory. All this shite PR men have been pumping into your head for donkeys years. The club makes fans think they're part of it to get them to part with their money. They don't have a separate pile for the funds you give them.

"This comes from RedOrange, we'll put income we get from him over in this pile, because he's part of the club"

You're no different from any other fan. If you don't turn up theyre not stopping the match going ahead. Fans are an important part of the club in the whole sense, not individually. The only distinction between you and someone who watches a game on television from the far east and spends 6 hours a day on RedCafe is that one guy knows the club doesn't give a feck about him or even knows he exists, the other is labouring under a hilarious delusion of grandeur that he's part of the club.


Fantastic attempt to Top Red the subject though.

 

[rk4utd]

I’m a supporter from the Doc era in the 70s so I’ve seen a fair bit where United is concerned. But what has got my goat is the apathetic nature of the team in general this past 10 years to defeat. The ‘we will learn lessons from this’ mantra trotted out after every defeat- whilst this has clearly not been the case. I like TenHag but his comments yesterday of us needing to ‘run more’ - wow!!!!!

 

[crossy1686]

Lucky I’m not there then eh? Wtf does my mentality have to do with the players on the pitch?!
You will enjoy football more when you realise your brain has zero influence on the outcome.

"Just care less guys, football is more enjoyable when you don't give a feck what happens".

 

[bringbackbebe]

I’m a supporter from the Doc era in the 70s so I’ve seen a fair bit where United is concerned. But what has got my goat is the apathetic nature of the team in general this past 10 years to defeat. The ‘we will learn lessons from this’ mantra trotted out after every defeat- whilst this has clearly not been the case. I like TenHag but his comments yesterday of us needing to ‘run more’ - wow!!!!!

I found this odd as well given it's his 2nd year and it's virtually the same team bar Mount.