Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

sugar_kane

Full Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
3,533
The theory about the recording being out of context is stupid because it doesn't explain why MG would stay with his partner after the leak damn near destroyed his career and ensured he would be known as a dangerous predator for the rest of his life.

He's a Premier League footballer, there are thousands of other willing women out there who would happily be with someone with his fame and money - why would he stick with her if she did this to him? It makes zero sense.

The only rational explanation is he did what everyone thinks he did and they reconciled.
 

Spaghetti

Mom's
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
1,463
Location
Barcelona
You are not the only one who thinks it is ok to make excuses for coercive sexual abusive behaviour and abuse, but it is wrong and very creepy.

You were not told it wasn’t sexual abuse, it is what you want to hear. Not being guilty of a crime does not mean there is no abuse.

I’m not manipulating, I’m Dutch, we say what we think. I think you are acting like a creep, just like all the others making excuses for MG.
I don’t know if links are allowed, but I know a good website for checking English words. Check out the word creepy. Nothing to do with anything I’ve said. Don’t take this the wrong way, it could just help you with these misunderstandings in the future.

Do I want to hear that a teenager wasn’t sexually abusing his partner? Yes, of course. Do I take this as definitely true? Unfortunately not. Is it possible to think of alternatives? Absolutely.

P.S. try role play some time. Role play is kind of creepy, by the way.
 

Dr. Dwayne

Self proclaimed tagline king.
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
97,741
Location
Nearer my Cas, to thee
Is it not incredibly possible that without a key witness willing to corroborate the audio - there was no chance of conviction.
It's possible though I wouldn't say incredibly. It's also possible that the audio was an excerpt of a longer recording that did not support the prosecution's case.
 

Ainu

Full Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2008
Messages
10,155
Location
Antwerp, Belgium
If you can't comprehend the idea of entrapment then you're obviously going to be offended by anyone who explains how that might have gone about.

You'd secretly record someone and ask them to do something that, out of context, appears to be horrible and most importantly illegal.

Presenting that theory doesn't imply we need to believe it but it's one way of explaining how Man Utd may have come to their conclusion.

The whole "wow you think he was tricked in to raping her that's a disgusting take" is such a disingenuous reaction and reeks of cognitive dissonance.
Everyone "comprehends" the idea, it's not rocket science. The thing with that theory is that, beyond a mental exercise of what is theoretically possible, it has no value. Like @Duafc pointed out, considering the circumstances it has to be considered extremely unlikely. Yet somehow it keeps popping up as the most likely explanation for some people. It's bizarre.

It is even more unlikely that that is how United reached their decision. Why on earth would United have suspended Greenwood for 18 months and then part ways with him if they knew for a fact that his partner faked the whole thing? Surely no can actually think this is a likely scenario?
 

Wazzaduke33

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 1, 2023
Messages
79
Some really weird thought processes on this thread

Anyway, as a group we should only make up our minds using what we have, the original audio and pics, the fact that he was arrested and charged, then 18 months or so later the case dropped by the CPS after “new evidence” emerges and the final fact that the club couldn’t back him.

So 3 out of 4 of these facts seem to lean towards he’s a wrong un and should never play for this magnificent club again, the end . . .
 

TsuWave

Full Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Messages
14,348
The Athletic put up another piece:

Mason Greenwood and football – what happens next?

It would, in the words of Manchester United, “be most appropriate” for Greenwood to resume his career away from Old Trafford.

In the eyes of others, it’s not appropriate for Greenwood to resume his career full stop. “Some survivors are telling us they don’t want to see him playing football again, they don’t want to see him cheered by football fans again, and we completely understand that,” Teresa Parker, a spokesperson for the charity Women’s Aid, tells The Athletic.

For clubs, there are all sorts of moral dilemmas to consider when thinking about signing Greenwood and in the majority of cases there will be little inclination for owners, executives, sporting directors and managers to spend any time having those conversations. When a member of staff at a top European club recently floated the possibility of signing Greenwood on loan, before United released their statement at the start of the week, it was dismissed out of hand.

Richard Arnold, United’s chief executive officer, explained in an open letter to supporters how the case “has provoked strong opinions, and it is my responsibility to minimise any distraction to the unity we are seeking within the club”. Arnold has essentially outlined what every club will experience if they try to sign Greenwood this summer – a public outcry, intense media coverage and, internally, the sort of reaction that risks upsetting supporters, staff and, in some cases, players, too.

Yet the reality is that someone somewhere is sure to sign Greenwood and that in itself fuels a tricky debate about what is – to borrow Manchester United’s word – “appropriate” for a footballer who has been through trial by social media but not convicted of any offence in a court of law. The circumstances of Greenwood’s case are highly unusual in that respect, bearing in mind that the public were able to sit as judge and jury 19 months ago after seeing and hearing the images and audio that were released on social media.

Court was the place for Greenwood to be ‘cleared’ and there are people with lifelong experience of the criminal justice system, as well as a love of football, who think it would have been far better for Greenwood (as well as victims of violence) had he gone through that legal process rather than be in the position he finds himself now.

In fact, the debate is a minefield. Some people, for example, will argue that the audio and images are evidence enough and that Greenwood has no right to enjoy the privileged life of a professional footballer as a result. Others will question the logic of giving a man a second chance in life provided he works as an electrician and doesn’t pull on a pair of football boots again.

“I think 95 per cent of clubs will say, ‘This is a poisoned chalice, I’m not going to go anywhere near him’,” Sean Bai, former director general of Valencia, tells The Athletic. “But there might be clubs who say, ‘We are a club that are convinced we can successfully rehabilitate him and he can become an ambassador against the things he has committed’. The most powerful message is always from those who have committed an offence and then they turn around and say, ‘Hey, that is wrong and I’m going to stand up for this cause’. But, of course, I think we all probably agree that the chance of that is quite small.”

Again, the fact Greenwood has not committed a crime makes the subject of rehabilitation, and punishment for that matter, more complicated than it otherwise would be. In short, Greenwood’s story has no closure.

“I think it’s the right thing for him to leave Manchester United, but I do think he should be given the opportunity to play again,” says a therapist who is on the Sporting Chance network and asked to remain anonymous given the nature of his work.

“How much does someone need to be punished before everyone says, ‘OK, get on with your life’. Some people will never allow it. Some people will accept it. I think he should have a chance to have another career, but it has to come from him to know that he’s done something wrong. He needs to process whatever has got him to that stage. My suggestion would be therapy.

Society has changed a lot over the past few decades. In March 1999, Graham Rix was sentenced to 12 months in prison for having sex with an underage girl. Rix was Chelsea’s youth team coach at the time and was reinstated at the club upon his release six months later, becoming first-team coach under Gianluca Vialli. Even allowing for the fact Rix admitted his offence, regretted his actions and served his time in prison, it seems unthinkable now that a Premier League club would make the same decision as Chelsea did back then and also that there would be so little reaction in the outside world. Indeed, when Rix gave an interview to the Independent in 2013 and reflected on the fact he had also managed Portsmouth, Oxford and Hearts after returning to work for Chelsea, the thrust of that piece was that it was much harder for him to get a job a decade or so later than it had been upon his release. In other words, society was no longer so forgiving and tolerant. Another way of looking at it would be to say that football clubs had started – and ‘started’ is the key word – to move with the times.

Fast forward another 10 years and, for better or worse (and plenty would say worse), the court of social media sits in judgment 24/7. In the case of Greenwood, social media provided a platform for the audio and images to be released that exposed his alleged behaviour, but it was also a place for the Manchester United players who were representing England at the Women’s World Cup to be abused when it was reported they would be consulted on whether Greenwood should play for the club again.

There is no easy answer to the question of where all of this leaves Greenwood right now. You get the impression that English football would be happy for him to be someone else’s problem. Picking up on the talk of Greenwood potentially moving to Italy – a leading football agent says: “It’s so xenophobic, it’s like, ‘Ah well, the Italians are OK with that?’”

It is hard to believe that anyone is ‘OK with that’, but that doesn’t mean Greenwood should never play football again.

“I think if you come back into a role where you’re going to be idolised by many young fans and hero-worshipped, what does that mean to the club and what does that mean to the industry? So I think it’s not a case that there’s no way he can be rehabilitated, but it’s (more) what is appropriate?” explains Parker.

full article has insights from a therapist, an anonymous ex-player and Simon Corney (former Oldham Athletic owner who signed Lee Hughes and tried to sign Ched Evans)
 

P-Ro

"Full Member"
Joined
Nov 21, 2014
Messages
11,416
Location
Salford
Supports
Chelsea and AFC Wimbledon
The Athletic put up another piece:

Mason Greenwood and football – what happens next?

It would, in the words of Manchester United, “be most appropriate” for Greenwood to resume his career away from Old Trafford.

In the eyes of others, it’s not appropriate for Greenwood to resume his career full stop. “Some survivors are telling us they don’t want to see him playing football again, they don’t want to see him cheered by football fans again, and we completely understand that,” Teresa Parker, a spokesperson for the charity Women’s Aid, tells The Athletic.

For clubs, there are all sorts of moral dilemmas to consider when thinking about signing Greenwood and in the majority of cases there will be little inclination for owners, executives, sporting directors and managers to spend any time having those conversations. When a member of staff at a top European club recently floated the possibility of signing Greenwood on loan, before United released their statement at the start of the week, it was dismissed out of hand.

Richard Arnold, United’s chief executive officer, explained in an open letter to supporters how the case “has provoked strong opinions, and it is my responsibility to minimise any distraction to the unity we are seeking within the club”. Arnold has essentially outlined what every club will experience if they try to sign Greenwood this summer – a public outcry, intense media coverage and, internally, the sort of reaction that risks upsetting supporters, staff and, in some cases, players, too.

Yet the reality is that someone somewhere is sure to sign Greenwood and that in itself fuels a tricky debate about what is – to borrow Manchester United’s word – “appropriate” for a footballer who has been through trial by social media but not convicted of any offence in a court of law. The circumstances of Greenwood’s case are highly unusual in that respect, bearing in mind that the public were able to sit as judge and jury 19 months ago after seeing and hearing the images and audio that were released on social media.

Court was the place for Greenwood to be ‘cleared’ and there are people with lifelong experience of the criminal justice system, as well as a love of football, who think it would have been far better for Greenwood (as well as victims of violence) had he gone through that legal process rather than be in the position he finds himself now.

In fact, the debate is a minefield. Some people, for example, will argue that the audio and images are evidence enough and that Greenwood has no right to enjoy the privileged life of a professional footballer as a result. Others will question the logic of giving a man a second chance in life provided he works as an electrician and doesn’t pull on a pair of football boots again.

“I think 95 per cent of clubs will say, ‘This is a poisoned chalice, I’m not going to go anywhere near him’,” Sean Bai, former director general of Valencia, tells The Athletic. “But there might be clubs who say, ‘We are a club that are convinced we can successfully rehabilitate him and he can become an ambassador against the things he has committed’. The most powerful message is always from those who have committed an offence and then they turn around and say, ‘Hey, that is wrong and I’m going to stand up for this cause’. But, of course, I think we all probably agree that the chance of that is quite small.”

Again, the fact Greenwood has not committed a crime makes the subject of rehabilitation, and punishment for that matter, more complicated than it otherwise would be. In short, Greenwood’s story has no closure.

“I think it’s the right thing for him to leave Manchester United, but I do think he should be given the opportunity to play again,” says a therapist who is on the Sporting Chance network and asked to remain anonymous given the nature of his work.

“How much does someone need to be punished before everyone says, ‘OK, get on with your life’. Some people will never allow it. Some people will accept it. I think he should have a chance to have another career, but it has to come from him to know that he’s done something wrong. He needs to process whatever has got him to that stage. My suggestion would be therapy.

Society has changed a lot over the past few decades. In March 1999, Graham Rix was sentenced to 12 months in prison for having sex with an underage girl. Rix was Chelsea’s youth team coach at the time and was reinstated at the club upon his release six months later, becoming first-team coach under Gianluca Vialli. Even allowing for the fact Rix admitted his offence, regretted his actions and served his time in prison, it seems unthinkable now that a Premier League club would make the same decision as Chelsea did back then and also that there would be so little reaction in the outside world. Indeed, when Rix gave an interview to the Independent in 2013 and reflected on the fact he had also managed Portsmouth, Oxford and Hearts after returning to work for Chelsea, the thrust of that piece was that it was much harder for him to get a job a decade or so later than it had been upon his release. In other words, society was no longer so forgiving and tolerant. Another way of looking at it would be to say that football clubs had started – and ‘started’ is the key word – to move with the times.

Fast forward another 10 years and, for better or worse (and plenty would say worse), the court of social media sits in judgment 24/7. In the case of Greenwood, social media provided a platform for the audio and images to be released that exposed his alleged behaviour, but it was also a place for the Manchester United players who were representing England at the Women’s World Cup to be abused when it was reported they would be consulted on whether Greenwood should play for the club again.

There is no easy answer to the question of where all of this leaves Greenwood right now. You get the impression that English football would be happy for him to be someone else’s problem. Picking up on the talk of Greenwood potentially moving to Italy – a leading football agent says: “It’s so xenophobic, it’s like, ‘Ah well, the Italians are OK with that?’”

It is hard to believe that anyone is ‘OK with that’, but that doesn’t mean Greenwood should never play football again.

“I think if you come back into a role where you’re going to be idolised by many young fans and hero-worshipped, what does that mean to the club and what does that mean to the industry? So I think it’s not a case that there’s no way he can be rehabilitated, but it’s (more) what is appropriate?” explains Parker.

full article has insights from a therapist, an anonymous ex-player and Simon Corney (former Oldham Athletic owner who signed Lee Hughes and tried to sign Ched Evans)
fecking Lee Hughes :lol: . I went to watch Stockport play at home against some team with Lee Hughes in it. He was getting fecking dogs abuse from everyone in the ground for the first 20 minutes. I was sitting near to the goal and towards the end of the game this 80+ year old fella slowly struggles to get up. After 10 seconds or so he's up on his feet, the place is dead quiet and he screams at the top of his lungs " Lee Hughes ya fookin knobhead". Sits back down and gets a round of applause.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

New Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2019
Messages
8,363
This whole situation leaves me asking what were the club expecting? After supposedly weeks/months of modelling are you telling me the MG return scenario didn’t throw up any resistance from online fans/the press?

It’s remarkable how much the hierarchy at the club mirror the players, in so much as theirs no gumption & how they caved at the first sign of opposition.

Arnold is now facing calls for him to go & if we are sold he’s damaged goods, he’ll only be around now as the face for criticism for the Glazers so what was the point ey Rich?

You don’t leave it some 2 weeks before the transfer window closed to test the waters & back yourself into a corner. Best now to release him & let him work his way back in at another club via the ‘he’s just using the facilities for now’ avenue.

This week has been fecking depressing.
@Sparky Rhiwabon Yes I agree, that is an issue for me. I mean Giggs and Best are still basically revered at United and they have both faced allegations that are equally or more serious, and that is putting it in a very careful way. Not so sure about Ronaldo.

I still completely understand those who don't want to see him play for us again, I am not even sure how I feel about that myself, but we definitely need to consider the problem of taking such a strong position considering we really don't know the whole story.
This./
 

Mr Pigeon

Illiterate Flying Rat
Scout
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
Messages
26,383
Location
bin
The theory about the recording being out of context is stupid because it doesn't explain why MG would stay with his partner after the leak damn near destroyed his career and ensured he would be known as a dangerous predator for the rest of his life.
I think I know the answer to this; because he's a great guy, and he loves assaulting women.

Allegedly, of course.
 

hobbers

Full Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
28,713
The articles today paint a picture of a couple who could both be a bit developmentally delayed, or at least incredibly immature. And violence was certainly a feature of the relationship, seemingly in both directions.
 

Redlyn

Full Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2011
Messages
3,683
Why are people so over the top with this though. He shouldn't ever play football again because why? He is not allowed to provide for his kid as well? He is not convicted of any crime. Even criminals go to prison come out and continue their lives while his should end? Honestly I feel people who think they are "good" are actually worse people than the actual criminals.
 

TsuWave

Full Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Messages
14,348
This whole situation leaves me asking what were the club expecting? After supposedly weeks/months of modelling are you telling me the MG return scenario didn’t throw up any resistance from online fans/the press?

It’s remarkable how much the hierarchy at the club mirror the players, in so much as theirs no gumption & how they caved at the first sign of opposition.
By all intents and purposes the club didn’t get to implement its reintegration model/plan.

Crafton leaked it in an unflattering manner and it spun out of being salvageable due to public reaction/pressure. I’m sure that resistance was expected - hence the “hostile”/“neutral”/“receptive” model they reportedly had - how they were going to circumvent that resistance we can only speculate, but they’d likely have Greenwood address it in some manner.
 

horsechoker

The Caf's Roy Keane.
Joined
Apr 16, 2015
Messages
52,668
Location
The stable
fecking Lee Hughes :lol: . I went to watch Stockport play at home against some team with Lee Hughes in it. He was getting fecking dogs abuse from everyone in the ground for the first 20 minutes. I was sitting near to the goal and towards the end of the game this 80+ year old fella slowly struggles to get up. After 10 seconds or so he's up on his feet, the place is dead quiet and he screams at the top of his lungs " Lee Hughes ya fookin knobhead". Sits back down and gets a round of applause.
This will be Greenwood's future
 

cafecillos

Full Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2014
Messages
1,446
Why are people so over the top with this though. He shouldn't ever play football again because why? He is not allowed to provide for his kid as well? He is not convicted of any crime. Even criminals go to prison come out and continue their lives while his should end? Honestly I feel people who think they are "good" are actually worse people than the actual criminals.
If people read it before posting the thread would be about 20 pages long.

He can and will "play football" again.

He has probably already earned enough to provide for his kid and grandkids. But he can and will "play football" again, and thus will continue to be able to prevent his family from starving.

His life won't "end".

And so on.


Greenwood fans are such drama queens. If some of their takes weren't so disgusting it would be almost funny.
 

Smores

Full Member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
25,585
Why are people so over the top with this though. He shouldn't ever play football again because why? He is not allowed to provide for his kid as well? He is not convicted of any crime. Even criminals go to prison come out and continue their lives while his should end? Honestly I feel people who think they are "good" are actually worse people than the actual criminals.
Holy shit he's getting the death penalty?!? :eek:
 

tomaldinho1

Full Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
18,055
I am currently on holiday in Greece and I got talking to a couple who's daughter is friends with Greenwood's girlfriend. They said that there is a lot of information not in the public eye that would go in favour of Greenwood (as the club statement said)
As opposed to her telling her mates what exactly?
 

AFC NimbleThumb

New Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2019
Messages
8,363
By all intents and purposes the club didn’t get to implement its reintegration model/plan.

Crafton leaked it in an unflattering manner and it spun out of being salvageable due to public reaction/pressure. I’m sure that resistance was expected - hence the “hostile”/“neutral”/“receptive” model they reportedly had - how they were going to circumvent that resistance we can only speculate, but they’d likely have Greenwood address it in some manner.
I guess the Crafton Model is something you can’t legislate for. Utterly avoidable had the club just made a decision & chose to drive the narrative.
 

DRJosh

Full Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
2,972
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Supports
United minus the Glazers
When will people realise that the Greenwood decision doesn’t just concern Greenwood and his family or the United men’s team, it also concerns the burgeoning female fan base and women’s teams in football and their right to feel protected in their place of work. It sets a broader precedent.

Yes the club handled this poorly but that shouldn’t be a surprise under our current organisational hierarchy.
 

Baxquux

Full Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2022
Messages
1,279
When will people realise that the Greenwood decision doesn’t just concern Greenwood and his family or the United men’s team, it also concerns the burgeoning female fan base and women’s teams in football and their right to feel protected in their place of work. It sets a broader precedent.

Yes the club handled this poorly but that shouldn’t be a surprise under our current organisational hierarchy.
So does this apply to anyone who's accused of assault, sexual or otherwise, against a woman and then has the case withdrawn (not simply due to a witness withdrawing but, explicitly in the CPS, 'new evidence')? Does a simple allegation constitute sufficient grounds? Because if it's the tape, we currently don't have grounds to judge as a public until (if at all) the new evidence is released. Arnold is privy to it, along with members of the club's legal team, and felt it was sufficiently convincing enough for there not to be potential blowback (further evidence emerging to support the initial conclusion; the witness changing their line about the events due to another relationship breakdown; nice or not, that will have been discussed as appropriate). I wish details were released of the new evidence, but it's as possible there are good reasons (legal/ethical) as 'bad' /purely self-interested ones why this hasn't happened, despite the fact it might make things less contentious either way.

If it's allegations, then why was Ronaldo allowed to join the club? If it's evidence of previously unpleasant behaviour that doesn't extend into the criminal (and for which the hypothetical player is contrite), then where is the threshol? . I'm not denying that there might be a non-legal one, but where are we drawing it? Thankfully, I don't think football is replete with sexual assault in the formal sense- although I suspect there's still some dubious consent around parties and booze and substances on the quiet - but adultery and using vicious spoken language in arguments (i'm not referring to the tape here; without context this is obviously much worse, even without a physical assault accompanying it...and it still might have of course)? We might find there are a few more footballers on the hook potentially for this, particularly if more things start being recorded secretly. I think your concern is right, but we can't approach this situation from the outside on the basis of MG having definitively committed these acts, particularly after investigations. If this was a case of going through court and getting off on a technicality, but with evidence exposing physically violent behaviour or proven coercion that happened not to fall under the official charges, then, i agree, clearly, let go even before advertisers get involved. But at the moment this smacks of the wrong kind of optics, where a full investigation can be superseded by campaigns from people not in possession of the full details.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

New Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2019
Messages
8,363
When will people realise that the Greenwood decision doesn’t just concern Greenwood and his family or the United men’s team, it also concerns the burgeoning female fan base and women’s teams in football and their right to feel protected in their place of work. It sets a broader precedent.

Yes the club handled this poorly but that shouldn’t be a surprise under our current organisational hierarchy.
The whole process taken before this decision should leave ‘people’ under no uncertainty that the club did not make this decision based on any of the bolded part in your post otherwise it wouldn’t have taken the leak for an about turn.

Should the club have considered what I bolded? Yes but the fact they didn’t shouldn’t be a surprise under our current organisational hierarchy.
 

Tibs

Full Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
13,786
Location
UK
Can anybody clear up please:

We were going to keep him, preparing to announce and a few days before we get cold feet...what changed in those days?
 

AndySmith1990

Full Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2021
Messages
6,347
Can anybody clear up please:

We were going to keep him, preparing to announce and a few days before we get cold feet...what changed in those days?
The morons who run the club came to their senses after realising all the decent human beings in the fan base would be against the scum bag returning
 

Rhyme Animal

Thinks Di Zerbi is better than Pep.
Joined
Sep 3, 2015
Messages
11,193
Location
Nonchalantly scoring the winner...
The morons who run the club came to their senses after realising all the decent human beings in the fan base would be against the scum bag returning
It’s not really true though is it. Fan opinion in nearly all polls on it were basically split pretty much right down the middle.

There are many people who believe in social philosophies built around education and rehab for example and they might’ve wanted to help him and the family rather than cast them aside - it doesn’t make them ‘indecent’.

There are others who believe that the ‘new material’, ‘audio is much longer’ statements from CPS and Utd mean that it isn’t as clear as it previously seemed and we’re wrong to remove him because of that - again, that doesn’t make those people ‘indecent’.

The only ‘indecent’ stance would be something that basically voiced, ‘so what, who cares?’, and actually, barely anyone has adopted that opinion.

The people who wanted Greenwood kicked to the curb have gotten exactly what they wanted, those who wanted to see him turn it around at Utd, and have the family involved in the Utd community have not got what they wanted.

I personally hope to see a happy outcome for them as a family, and the current climate in the media concerns me for them tbh. But there’s not really anything I can do beyond wishing them well.
 

Baxquux

Full Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2022
Messages
1,279
The morons who run the club came to their senses after realising all the decent human beings in the fan base would be against the scum bag returning
People have put forward arguments challenging the assumption of guilt (after not one but two investigations; legal, and then internal), along with taking into account what has been actually established about MG's conduct, some of it clearly bad on a private level. Obviously if the latter actually included sexual assault then no-one except 'morons', as you put it, would be in support of his potentially returning. I'm sorry if you don't have the courtesy to at least acknowledge the other side of the case - again, which only exists in the first place because the evidence made public to everyone has been thrown into serious doubt, and all we lack are the details of 'why'.

For what it's worth., I know a least of couple of Barristers with Oxford 1sts and affiliations with the Inns of Court who supported MG being brought back in prior to the club's decision - they're not unimpeachable authorities, but I'd hardly call them morons (even though I disagree with their politics). I'd be wary about throwing out terms like that, considering the wide range of backgrounds of supporters (on this board and as a whole) and their very differing oopinions..
 

frostbite

Full Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2021
Messages
3,366
Can anybody clear up please:

We were going to keep him, preparing to announce and a few days before we get cold feet...what changed in those days?
Arnold was in his office and he realized that it was not raining, it was the fans spitting at him for thinking that Greenwood would ever play for us again. Yes, it was imaginary, but the shitstorm on his head would be enormous. It is quite bad as it is.

Arnold is too useless, he should have released Greenwood already. Just pay the rest of his contract and release him. There is no other solution. It is over. The longer he is waiting, the more useless and incapable he looks and the more damage he is causing to United. Arnold OUT!
 

Red_jake

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 24, 2015
Messages
100
Essentially the Athletic and Rachel Riley.

If you, hypothetically, went back in time and removed those 2 elements, he would’ve been eased back in.
Can anyone tell me why on earth Rachel Rileys opinion matters on this?
 

redmanx

Full Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2017
Messages
1,424
The morons who run the club came to their senses after realising all the decent human beings in the fan base would be against the scum bag returning
I doubt we'll ever know exactly what occurred, or didnt, but I tend to believe theres no smoke without fire. As in the Giggs case it would appear Greenwood was/is certainly guilty of something unsavoury in the context of the relationship between man and woman, and, like Giggs, is clearly somebody any parent would want their daughter to steer well clear of. As for Manchester United there would be outrage if Greenwood stayed and the club would face recriminations so its for the best all round that Greenwood should leave. Its a shame, he had a great future and maybe can still have one but it wont be in the Premier League.
 

Pronewbie

Peep
Joined
May 17, 2004
Messages
6,701
Location
In front of My Computer
Having just read the last 2 pages, I think slow mode's a great feature for this thread. It reduces having just 1 or 2 voices carpet bombing everyone's opinion with their own narrow perspective.

When will people realise that the Greenwood decision doesn’t just concern Greenwood and his family or the United men’s team, it also concerns the burgeoning female fan base and women’s teams in football and their right to feel protected in their place of work. It sets a broader precedent.

Yes the club handled this poorly but that shouldn’t be a surprise under our current organisational hierarchy.
My understanding is that Mason didn't abuse female strangers or anyone at work, if anyone at all (legally). But yes, people think and behave irrationally.
 

DRJosh

Full Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Messages
2,972
Location
Melbourne, Australia
Supports
United minus the Glazers
So does this apply to anyone who's accused of assault, sexual or otherwise, against a woman and then has the case withdrawn (not simply due to a witness withdrawing but, explicitly in the CPS, 'new evidence')? Does a simple allegation constitute sufficient grounds? Because if it's the tape, we currently don't have grounds to judge as a public until (if at all) the new evidence is released. Arnold is privy to it, along with members of the club's legal team, and felt it was sufficiently convincing enough for there not to be potential blowback (further evidence emerging to support the initial conclusion; the witness changing their line about the events due to another relationship breakdown; nice or not, that will have been discussed as appropriate). I wish details were released of the new evidence, but it's as possible there are good reasons (legal/ethical) as 'bad' /purely self-interested ones why this hasn't happened, despite the fact it might make things less contentious either way.

If it's allegations, then why was Ronaldo allowed to join the club? If it's evidence of previously unpleasant behaviour that doesn't extend into the criminal (and for which the hypothetical player is contrite), then where is the threshol? . I'm not denying that there might be a non-legal one, but where are we drawing it? Thankfully, I don't think football is replete with sexual assault in the formal sense- although I suspect there's still some dubious consent around parties and booze and substances on the quiet - but adultery and using vicious spoken language in arguments (i'm not referring to the tape here; without context this is obviously much worse, even without a physical assault accompanying it...and it still might have of course)? We might find there are a few more footballers on the hook potentially for this, particularly if more things start being recorded secretly. I think your concern is right, but we can't approach this situation from the outside on the basis of MG having definitively committed these acts, particularly after investigations. If this was a case of going through court and getting off on a technicality, but with evidence exposing physically violent behaviour or proven coercion that happened not to fall under the official charges, then, i agree, clearly, let go even before advertisers get involved. But at the moment this smacks of the wrong kind of optics, where a full investigation can be superseded by campaigns from people not in possession of the full details.
I get where you’re coming from but I think certain actions lend themselves to having a higher degree of publicity and social media virality.

Greenwood’s alleged abuse was documented in a way where it featured a specific ‘narrative possibility’ of a male player demanding sex and abusing his partner. That alone is enough to have serious ramifications on how the game is perceived and it’s ambassadorial role in showcasing inclusivity in football.

Ronaldo’s actions, despite vast media coverage, didn’t carry the same impact value on public perception. Yes it’s unfair to an extent, but that is a fact of the mediated world we live in.

And in terms of the club’s u-turn, that is certainly bad optics only for the fact that United should have announced his departure in the first instance. But given how poorly this club is run, I’m not surprised.
 

wolvored

Full Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2016
Messages
9,976
The thing is if MG played for any other team than Utd this forum would have been 99.99% against him.
 

golden_blunder

Site admin. Manchester United fan
Staff
Joined
Jun 1, 2000
Messages
120,386
Location
Dublin, Ireland
You are really persistent with this “creepy” nonsense. Nobody here invented the idea of role play; it’s been suggested for 18 months.

United and Greenwood released a statement saying that the audios and videos were not what they looked like. Are we just going to call them liars and ignore it? No. Is role play completely impossible? No. Are we speculating about possibilities on a discussion forum? Yes.

Just because you don’t personally like the idea of it being role play doesn’t mean you have to twist and manipulate the idea. You have offered 0 reasons as to why it is impossible to be role play, and your posts seem to be deliberately antagonistic by repeating “ewww creep”.
If it’s role play was she still playing when she leaked it online? This is where the role play angle falls flat on its face
 

Plant0x84

Shame we’re aren’t more like Brighton
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
13,491
Location
Carpark and snack area adjacent to the abyss
Just read through this thread to catch up from yesterday. Wish I hadn’t bothered, more depressing than the club sale thread!

Now I’m off to pour myself a ‘mega pint’ of wine and ‘tiny rape’ the missus or something…..

Good god what’s wrong with the world :houllier:
 

Denis79

Full Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2014
Messages
7,786
The morons who run the club came to their senses after realising all the decent human beings in the fan base would be against the scum bag returning
There is a good chance that Greenwood himself chose not to come back. When he noticed that normal people don't simply forget the shit he did and that they wouldn't welcome him back with open arms, he decided to try his luck elsewhere.
 

OverratedOpinion

Full Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2017
Messages
6,512
You are really persistent with this “creepy” nonsense. Nobody here invented the idea of role play; it’s been suggested for 18 months.

United and Greenwood released a statement saying that the audios and videos were not what they looked like. Are we just going to call them liars and ignore it? No. Is role play completely impossible? No. Are we speculating about possibilities on a discussion forum? Yes.

Just because you don’t personally like the idea of it being role play doesn’t mean you have to twist and manipulate the idea. You have offered 0 reasons as to why it is impossible to be role play, and your posts seem to be deliberately antagonistic by repeating “ewww creep”.
If this was consensual BDSM it would be a smoking gun that absolutely saved his reputation, his career, millions of pounds, saved Manchester United a potential £100m asset.

Yet that's never been mooted by anyone remotely close to the situation. Do you reckon they just forgot to mention it?

Jesus wept some of the nonsense spoken about this.
 

Denis79

Full Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2014
Messages
7,786
If this was consensual BDSM it would be a smoking gun that absolutely saved his reputation, his career, millions of pounds, saved Manchester United a potential £100m asset.

Yet that's never been mooted by anyone remotely close to the situation. Do you reckon they just forgot to mention it?

Jesus wept some of the nonsense spoken about this.
If the only evidence was that audio recording many things would have possible but there were several pictures of bruises and an additional video recording with her bleeding from her mouth. I guess those were from Halloween?
 

OverratedOpinion

Full Member
Joined
Sep 4, 2017
Messages
6,512
This is just romanticised garbage. He's a footballer, not the bloody pope.
So if it's not a privilege is it a right? If so how is it being removed as a result of Utd's decision?

If you believe it's "romanticised garbage" to say that it's a privilege to be provided a platform and opportunities by one of the largest sporting teams in the world then I'd suggest you have some degree of confusion as to what the word "privilege" means.