Erik ten Hag vs Sancho

[criticalanalysis]

I said this in Sancho's thread but let's hope this gives him bit of an agenda/chip on his shoulder and he starts training with some passion and aggression.

Is it likely to happen? Probably not but hope is all I got at the moment.

 

[prateik]

ETH is gone.. its a shame we wasted money we barely have on his signings.. always a risk.. need a DoF.

 

[Pronewbie]

Sancho has been a terrible signing for us but I see his time thus far similar to a Pogba, if you played out his United career 100 other times I think we’re seeing the worst version.

Whilst our recruitment has been terrible I’m more concerned with the fact players seemingly don’t just underperform here but turn into the worst version of themselves time & again, even Caf faves like a Shaw have probably had a middling version of their careers if you were to roll the dice 100 times.

People zoom in on a player as we’re doing now with Sancho but Antony is next believe me. The cycle just continues & I honestly don’t think it’s as simple as ‘x Player’, there’s something really wrong at the club.

Obviously there are issues with the club's culture as evidenced in recent weeks. But this thread is about Sancho.

Antony isn't next. He's already it. But it's for his performances. I don't think most here have a problem with his work ethic and attitude.

 

[NewGlory]

Maybe, he'd do well to keep quiet. As a professional athlete he shouldnt care about social media posts and its a bit of a dramatic move over a few posts.

100%

I just go by the mantra that if you call someone out, at work, in a team etc. then your own house has to be in order. I like EtH [which makes the accusation I’m bashing him ridiculous] but he’s not batting a hundred currently himself.

If Sancho were one of minimal misfiring parts then fine but we’ve been poor for some time. He showed last year that when he wants to he can avoid answering questions on players, Sancho in particular, so to talk about ‘he’ today wasn’t a misslip. Maybe it gives Sancho a kick, who knows.

EtH is not a member of the team. He is the fecking manager. He decides who plays and who doesn't, and whatever he decides goes - good, bad, or brilliant. It is completely out of line for a player to defy manager the way Sancho did. He should be sold in January just for that, if we were real top club. He still may be sold, the problem will be the usual one however - there's nobody who wants to buy him and pay his current insane wages, when he is clearly not playing well and is clearly a pain in the ass to deal with

 

[saik]

I stopped reading here cause despite it being a 3 word answer instead of 1, I think we’re done here.

Have a great evening.

You too.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

I’m not saying hes good. I’m saying his alternative being Sancho is a-lot worse.

When you consider the opportunities I really don’t think he has. That’s not a compliment to Sancho btw, it’s how badly I think Antony has played.

I can’t really count Sancho’s first year because, OgS 3-5-2 then sacked & Ralf - then he had his issues last year. I honestly believe if you gave him the imo undeserved minutes Antony is getting by default he wouldn’t do a-lot worse, though I doubt he’d do a-lot better.

 

[Raoul]

He was a bizarre buy to begin with and seems surplus to requirements with the wide players we already have. Getting on the manager's wrong side in training only exacerbates this.

 

[Born2Lose]

Until United start backing the manager again and showing dossers like Sancho the door, nothing will change. For too long Man Utd has been a club for the benefit of the players, and I'm glad to see EtH kicking up a storm.

That Sancho is entitled and deluded is really highlighted in his statement where he writes about him "fighting for the badge".

Relative to his value and wages he has to be the worst signing in United's history.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Obviously there are issues with the club's culture as evidenced in recent weeks. But this thread is about Sancho.

Antony isn't next. He's already it. But it's for his performances. I don't think most here have a problem with his work ethic and attitude.

Fair point, I just think to look a ‘Player X’ in isolation is missing the bigger problems. Too many versions of the worst careers possible for too many players for me to simply blame the players anymore.

We don’t “sign” crap players bar a few but we certainly don’t make the best of what we do sign.

 

[saik]

Until United start backing the manager again and showing dossers like Sancho the door, nothing will change. The fantasy land Sancho lives in is all in that part of his statement about him "fighting for the badge".

Relative to his value and wages he has to be the worst signing in United's history.

Just a PR statement we have seen so many of our players put out after every bad performance. They put out these stupid statements but clearly don't care enough to show it on the pitch.

 

[Cassidy]

I get that. He must be pissed off he cant get rid of some of the deadwood.

But he must know that comes with the job. He knows he had an underperforming side when he walked in. He has made a ton of signings, he has improved the form of a couple of players, but the team are still playing badly.

I dont understand the value in calling out Sancho publicly. There is more to it as i think the denial from Sancho if so clear that i dont think its just about raining.

What he said about Sancho hardly calling him out. Sancho also has a history of denying training underperformance.

 

[Care_de_Bobo]

Sancho has (in all competitions) :-

5 goals, 3 assists in 38 games in 2021/22
7 goals, 3 assists in 41 games in 2022/23
0 goals, 0 assists in 3 games in 2023/24

That's 12 goals, 6 assists in 82 games overall!

That's absolutely garbage. This mofo is playing his ass on autopilot. He don't press, even if his teammates are busting ass. He don't track back and defend. He doesn't take anyone on. He hardly makes forward passes. This dude has been straight up garbage for 82 games and has the nerve to talk about playing with a smile?

Hell, Antony in his first season had :-

10 goals, 5 assists in 47 games in 2022/23!

Only two goals and one assist short of what Sancho has done in two seasons already. Add to that the fact that Antony absolutely works his ass off more than almost anyone in the side, and at least helps us retain the ball in difficult periods.

Those stats are completely wrong, Anthony had 7 goals and 2 assists in all competitions last year.

If you just focus on the league Sancho actually had more goal involvements than Anthony in the same number of games. Anthony's 4 goals and 2 assists in the league is even worse when you consider he scored in his first 3 games and then didn't get a goal or assist for 15 league games in a row!

Both of them have been below the standard required, but I can understand where Sancho is coming from in that he would never get 15 games to play himself into form. The fans are also on his back more than others even when he's not playing. Ten Hag really needs to start benching players if they're not performing in matches, otherwise it undermines his authority and any notion of a meritocracy when it comes to team selection.

Hopefully both Anthony and Sancho will be a bit more productive once Hojlund is fully integrated into the team. They have both been hamstrung by the fact we've had no proper striker for way too long, even Beckham and Giggs would struggle for assists playing with the likes of Martial or Weghorst.

 

[Cassidy]

When you consider the opportunities I really don’t think he has. That’s not a compliment to Sancho btw, it’s how badly I think Antony has played.

I can’t really count Sancho’s first year because, OgS 3-5-2 then sacked & Ralf - then he had his issues last year. I honestly believe if you gave him the imo undeserved minutes Antony is getting by default he wouldn’t do a-lot worse, though I doubt he’d do a-lot better.

Sancho was the cause of of losing games because he pulled out of 50/50s and didnt press or track back last season

Marginally being better in attack but being a complete liability to the team as a whole is why he isn’t an option.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Also worth to mention Sancho took the most stupid way. He could just not say anything and talk with ten Hag on private. By using his social media to answer he basically made the whole thing bigger.

Now ten Hag has to set his foot down any other option different from freezing Sancho is out of the window. Not punishing would be seen as weakness and he can't allow it. Sancho is done and in the most stupid way.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

The fact that Sancho thinks he's been scapegoated is wild to me.

The manager that gave you time off to deal with personal issues and he feels he's been scapegoated?

The same player that consistently looks like he doesn't apply himself to the fullest in actual games, took a longer pre-season when he was signed initially, and put more work in his PR statement than in some actual appearances for the club during games.

The sooner we bin him the better. The mentality he's displayed here is pitiful.

 

[r0663664]

Maybe ETH is trying to get Sancho out of United. Remember that Saudi's transfer window is still open, I would gladly take 50-60 million for Sancho. I hope Sancho can look around and see if there is any chance of the transfer happening. I am fine if Sancho moves on as I think he doesn't cut it in the EPL. The league is too fast and physical for him, he is a very good player but not in his home country.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Ten Hag came out last summer and said that Garnacho wasn't doing enough and he was being punished for turning up late for training. Garnacho's response? To keep his head down, work hard, and break into the team.

Ten Hag says something that's milder about Sancho. Sancho's response is to act like a moaning twat.

 

[Just Hope]

Such a soft player. Not much to say really.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

I just don’t know what else he could say?

"We have a full squad now and that means sometimes players will be left out."

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

I just go by the mantra that if you call someone out, at work, in a team etc. then your own house has to be in order. I like EtH [which makes the accusation I’m bashing him ridiculous] but he’s not batting a hundred currently himself.

If Sancho were one of minimal misfiring parts then fine but we’ve been poor for some time. He showed last year that when he wants to he can avoid answering questions on players, Sancho in particular, so to talk about ‘he’ today wasn’t a misslip. Maybe it gives Sancho a kick, who knows.

Yeah I don't disagree, it's not great to hear and regardless of whether or not there is issue or if a journalist asked about Sancho by name there are ways of dealing with the situation where you avoid bagging a player in public. That said if Sancho gets fire in his belly to prove Erik wrong it could be a good move, the ball is in the player's court and he is officially fighting for his United future.

 

[hobbers]

Has to be said also that Sancho isnt contributing any less than Martial when he is on the pitch.

 

[Cassidy]

Has to be said also that Sancho isnt contributing any less than Martial when he is on the pitch.

One hasnt had a pre season and is recovering from a long injury. Pretty sure Martial contributed alot more last season than Sancho

 

[DownRiver]

I don’t see this as a problem.

Ten Hag has protected him last season and had given him 3 months off without a bad word against him.

He clearly saw a lack of effort from his point of view. You think he had not tried to motivate him in other ways?

I think Ten Hag, in the heat of the moment after a loss, didn’t think of trying to protect Sancho by lying. He just was honest. This will put the fear in other players to show some bite in training.

 

[Litch]

It is rinse and repeat. Players morale go down and things crumble and manager gets the sack. Then we start again with new false hope.

Agree.

 

[Cassidy]

It is rinse and repeat. Players morale go down and things crumble and manager gets the sack. Then we start again with new false hope.

I think ETH will be fine. Weve lost 2 games one being to potential champions

 

[DutchSerb]

It's a shame the club can't stay drama free, but if Sancho is helping himself to an (early) exit with this laughable statement I'm all for it. A scapegoat, seriously?

 

[L1nk]

Imagine if this was Mourinho throwing his players under the bus in public...

How much has ETH done in private for this guy? I mean he basically sent his ass to a private retreat and training in Holland to help him so to say it in public must mean he’s run out of patience. How much more are we supposed to give this flop

 

[OverratedOpinion]

It's amazing how players who play horrendously often end up being "scapegoats". It's almost as if fans just want players to do their best and play well.

 

[L1nk]

Is this the same Erik judging Martial's performance today as "very good" judging Sancho's training this week as subpar?

You expect him to say Martial is trash?

 

[Superunknown]

"We have a full squad now and that means sometimes players will be left out."

And who is to say that Sancho won't just do the same exact thing next week?

I don't mind this at all. ETH has called him out on it. Now, the next time Sancho is on the pitch, all eyes will be on him to deliver...as they should be. He's been getting away with substandard performances for far too long.

He's not the only one, and this may just make the rest of the squad wake up and take notice.

 

[saik]

I think ETH will be fine. Weve lost 2 games one being to potential champions

Yea and the other to a team who are looking like a strong top 4 contender this season. We were so close to winning today anyways. Once our players are back from injuries we should be a lot better.

 

[Cassidy]

Yea and the other to a team who are looking like a strong top 4 contender this season. We were so close to winning today anyways. Once our players are back from injuries we should be a lot better.

I actually think just having Hojlund in the side will change a lot.

Problem is we have an issue if he gets injured. Club has let the manager down not getting another striker in.

I don’t want to hear about FFP because we could gave got Thuram or Dembele for free

 

[Litch]

I don’t see this as a problem.

Ten Hag has protected him last season and had given him 3 months off without a bad word against him.

He clearly saw a lack of effort from his point of view. You think he had not tried to motivate him in other ways?

I think Ten Hag, in the heat of the moment after a loss, didn’t think of trying to protect Sancho by lying. He just was honest. This will put the fear in other players to show some bite in training.

Eric simple shouldnt have said it. Nobody wins and even if its right, players dont like it even if its not about them. The dressing room gets fractured, toxic and people take sides. Off the back of the Greenwood stuff, Harry and others.....I suspect Eric will have lost the players respect of some players as a consequence.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

And who is to say that Sancho won't just do the same exact thing next week?

I don't mind this at all. ETH has called him out on it. Now, the next time Sancho is on the pitch, all eyes will be on him to deliver...as they should be. He's been getting away with substandard performances for far too long.

He's not the only one, and this may just make the rest of the squad wake up and take notice.

Then he's left out again.

This is something for the manager to speak to players about directly not through the media.

 

[DickDastardly]

Ten Hag came out last summer and said that Garnacho wasn't doing enough and he was being punished for turning up late for training. Garnacho's response? To keep his head down, work hard, and break into the team.

Ten Hag says something that's milder about Sancho. Sancho's response is to act like a moaning twat.

Yep.

He called out Garnacho.

He called out Marcus and blatantly states he's punished.

Their responses? Work harder and respect the manager.

Jadons response? My 7 year old acts more mature then that. Not a whole lot but still, he's 7 ffs.

 

[hobbers]

One hasnt had a pre season and is recovering from a long injury. Pretty sure Martial contributed alot more last season than Sancho

9 goals 3 assists vs 7 goals 3 assists.

In the Prem... 6g and 2a vs 6g and 3a.

 

[saik]

I actually think just having Hojlund in the side will change a lot.

Problem is we have an issue if he gets injured. Club has let the manager down not getting another striker in.

Yup. For a change, we will have someone to aim our long balls at. Onana, instead of hitting it out to Rashford(who was dogshit today in trying to win those long balls) will now look for Hojlund I'm sure.

We were always going to get another striker in only if Martial left. And we all know that no club in their right mind would take Martial on his salary right now. Hopefully, next season when Martial's contract ends and we let him go, we can get some decent backup striker in.

 

[Cassidy]

9 goals 3 assists vs 7 goals 3 assists.

In the Prem... 6g and 2a vs 6g and 3a.

Yes indeed on how many minutes? And contribution goes more than goals and assists anyway.

Our overall play last season when Martial played was a lot better. We looked a better team without Sancho

 

[BeltUp]

Eric simple shouldnt have said it. Nobody wins and even if its right, players dont like it even if its not about them. The dressing room gets fractured, toxic and people take sides. Off the back of the Greenwood stuff, Harry and others.....I suspect Eric will have lost the players respect of some players as a consequence.

I'm glad he said it. Players should learn they are either going to work their arses off and get on board with Erik or they aren't playing. If any players have lost respect for him then he should be able to show then the door.

 

[Bastian]

I don’t see this as a problem.

Ten Hag has protected him last season and had given him 3 months off without a bad word against him.

He clearly saw a lack of effort from his point of view. You think he had not tried to motivate him in other ways?

I think Ten Hag, in the heat of the moment after a loss, didn’t think of trying to protect Sancho by lying. He just was honest. This will put the fear in other players to show some bite in training.

I doubt it was a heat of the moment, I think it may have been the last straw. How many players are afforded months off during the season without a specific reason being specified? He's come back and not been up to the levels expected. His reaction just compounds this. If he does get another game at United he'll need to up his work rate by some levels so as not to look idiotic. I'm not sure he has it in him. We've not seen it anyway.

Get him out the door. If any Saudi club is mad enough to cover his incredibly unmerited wages that would be excellent.