Wing Attack Plan R
Full Member
Also Jordan Henderson: "I'll do whatever you want for $20."
Whilst I agree Henderson is being disingenuous, mainly because he wouldn't be playing in Suadi if the money was not out of this world. I do not believe this statement to be true.I think there’s a difference between being a supporter or the LGBT community and being respectful of it. It’s possible to have different beliefs while still being respectful of other people’s beliefs. However, Henderson was very public about his support of the LGBT community, he was very vocal about wanting to set an example that he’s not only respectful but an ally of the LGBT community. His actions this summer have proven that is not the case though. You cannot claim to be a supporter of the LGBT Community if you are going to work in a country that makes being gay illegal. If he wasn’t so vocal about his support previous he mightn’t be getting the stick he is getting. People don’t like liars and hypocrites and Henderson has made himself look like one.
Excellent post.I just don't think it's fair to brand someone in that way here.
There's a reality here that's being forgotten - the LGBTQ+ community and their struggles are not top of mind for the majority of these athletes going to Saudi Arabia let alone the general population.
I also wouldn't call athletes support of the LGBTQ virtue signaling. For the vast majority they're being asked to affirm a social progressivism when I'm sure they would much rather be talking about sport. It's the politically correct thing to do when it just doesn't impact them. And to be frank there's probably a lot of ignorance around it. I would bet most don't know that homosexuality is punishable by execution much the same way I would bet most of those in outrage don't know the other capitol offenses that Saudi Arabia executes more people for, including not being the right "type" of Muslim. I doubt these footballers are anti- freedoms of religion or pro adultery.
It also strikes me that there's actually more outrage here with players moving to Saudi league than when Ghana refused to wear the rainbow PSG trainer or kit.
Edit:
I'm just going to add that this is pretty much par for the course with the vocal minority LGBTQ community that goes to all ends to attack and degrade those of it's own community that "step out of line" or supporters of their movement that don't do exactly as their organizers want. They find scapegoats that are easy to battle instead of using that same energy and animosity to enact significantly meaningful change. It's harder for them to have a discussion with the likes of say I Ghana and get him to come off his outspoken homophobia than it is to piss all over a guy that's gone out of his way to use his platform for them.
Aye. For a player who was the media darling of broadsheets and tabloids alike, which would have platformed him as an authority on the game for the decades to come after retirement, he's severed his reputation. Totally fecked it.Some fall from grace, going from Liverpool legend status to a complete sell out who pissed all over a cause which he previously championed and now tearfully explaining that moving to Saudi Arabia isn't about money.
Don't know how he thinks anyone will buy it.
We have a muslim purist in here who during the 2022 wc wouldnt answer the question" do you think homosexuality is immoral and should be illegal? " its such a basic question that only has one ethical answer. Instead he kept dodging the question and kept saying "what i think doesnt matter only what the quran says matters." But of course thats the difference between him and you. He's a purist(or tries to come across as one) and you're not and thus more flexible.I and my wife who would call herself a muslim disagree with having to follow Islam in a certain way to be a muslim but that discussion is perhaps for another thread. There are loads of muslims that do not follow Islam to 100% of its interpretation but then there are also disagreements about this interpretation. I don't really like saying you're less of a muslim/christian etc. than the next person because of certain 'grey areas'. I'm pretty sure the Qu'ran doesn't even refer to homosexuality.
I disagree wholeheartedly with the notions that if you support homosexuality then you're not a muslim or if you're a muslim then you can't support homosexuality.
...and in turn I would be surprised if they followed the Quran and Islam completely 100%. I think that religion and people and cultures evolve with time and the world around them, especially depending on where you live or the circles you surround yourself in. Obviously others don't in terms of religion and believe that there is only one way or the right way to follow as yourself and @Rooney in Paris and @Mogget alluded to!We have a muslim purist in here who during the 2022 wc wouldnt answer the question" do you think homosexuality is immoral and should be illegal? " its such a basic question that only has one ethical answer. Instead he kept dodging the question and kept saying "what i think doesnt matter only what the quran says matters." But of course thats the difference between him and you. He's a purist(or tries to come across as one) and you're not and thus more flexible.
Then they can stop trying to come off as SJW.Man, I’m all for LGBT+ people having the rights to live in peace and what not, but this stuff is going too far with Jordan. So because he’s going to KSA it invalidates what he said before?
Y’all need to come off it and focus on more important things. I’m not the biggest fan of football being the new medium for puffy social justice campaigns.
There is no scapegoating anyone. Vocal minority LGBT community, haha. Absolute joke.I just don't think it's fair to brand someone in that way here.
There's a reality here that's being forgotten - the LGBTQ+ community and their struggles are not top of mind for the majority of these athletes going to Saudi Arabia let alone the general population.
I also wouldn't call athletes support of the LGBTQ virtue signaling. For the vast majority they're being asked to affirm a social progressivism when I'm sure they would much rather be talking about sport. It's the politically correct thing to do when it just doesn't impact them. And to be frank there's probably a lot of ignorance around it. I would bet most don't know that homosexuality is punishable by execution much the same way I would bet most of those in outrage don't know the other capitol offenses that Saudi Arabia executes more people for, including not being the right "type" of Muslim. I doubt these footballers are anti- freedoms of religion or pro adultery.
It also strikes me that there's actually more outrage here with players moving to Saudi league than when Ghana refused to wear the rainbow PSG trainer or kit.
Edit:
I'm just going to add that this is pretty much par for the course with the vocal minority LGBTQ community that goes to all ends to attack and degrade those of it's own community that "step out of line" or supporters of their movement that don't do exactly as their organizers want. They find scapegoats that are easy to battle instead of using that same energy and animosity to enact significantly meaningful change. It's harder for them to have a discussion with the likes of say I Ghana and get him to come off his outspoken homophobia than it is to piss all over a guy that's gone out of his way to use his platform for them.
So LGBTQI+ rights are puffy social justice campaigns? What's the point of your message exactly?Man, I’m all for LGBT+ people having the rights to live in peace and what not, but this stuff is going too far with Jordan. So because he’s going to KSA it invalidates what he said before?
Y’all need to come off it and focus on more important things. I’m not the biggest fan of football being the new medium for puffy social justice campaigns.
Yes him moving over there for money does invalidate what he said previously. Actions speak louder than wordsMan, I’m all for LGBT+ people having the rights to live in peace and what not, but this stuff is going too far with Jordan. So because he’s going to KSA it invalidates what he said before?
Y’all need to come off it and focus on more important things. I’m not the biggest fan of football being the new medium for puffy social justice campaigns.
Moving for money at this stage to secure your family is as good as any move in my book. He should just own itSo everyone who was saying that Henderson made the move to support his family.
What's the reason he's over there now that he's come out and said it isn't about the money?
(We all know it's about the money but just curious to see whether anyone still thinks this is a good look. I think he would have been better off not saying anything at all)
My point is these SJ campaigns are all lip service. Kneel down for ‘Black Lives Matter’ but what has really changed?So LGBTQI+ rights are puffy social justice campaigns? What's the point of your message exactly?
Let’s agree to disgree here.Yes him moving over there for money does invalidate what he said previously. Actions speak louder than words
I get what you're saying here but that's not really all that compatible with Islam. One of the main selling points of Islam, and one of the things Muslims try to use as proof Islam is the only true religion, is that the Quran is literally unchanged from the day it was written....and in turn I would be surprised if they followed the Quran and Islam completely 100%. I think that religion and people and cultures evolve with time and the world around them, especially depending on where you live or the circles you surround yourself in. Obviously others don't in terms of religion and believe that there is only one way or the right way to follow as yourself and @Rooney in Paris and @Mogget alluded to!
Interpretations can evolve and the way people follow those interpretations. I definitely don't know everything or nearly enough about Islam or the Quran but what I have read and what I've read from scholars in the field of Islam etc. is that there are different interpretations and progressions but again it depends what line of thinking you are from and if you are being 'literal' to that initial birthing of the religion then yes, i understand what you're saying.I get what you're saying here but that's not really all that compatible with Islam. One of the main selling points of Islam, and one of the things Muslims try to use as proof Islam is the only true religion, is that the Quran is literally unchanged from the day it was written.
Islam isn't really a religion that can "evolve" because by doing so it sort of goes against the main principles of Islam itself.
Hard to interpret things differently when apostasy is punishable with imprisonment.Interpretations can evolve and the way people follow those interpretations.
They can but I'm just saying it's a lot harder for certain interpretations to evolve than othersInterpretations can evolve and the way people follow those interpretations.
Yeah but turning a blind eye to certain things doesn't make you a non-muslim, it just means you arent a muslim purist or all in so to speak. I dont know Islam is a religious doctrine and muslims are people. If they believe Allah is the only god and Muhammed is his messenger they are muslims to some extent at least whether or not they follow it strictly. Dunno maybe im just talking mumbo jumbo.I get what you're saying here but that's not really all that compatible with Islam. One of the main selling points of Islam, and one of the things Muslims try to use as proof Islam is the only true religion, is that the Quran is literally unchanged from the day it was written.
Islam isn't really a religion that can "evolve" because by doing so it sort of goes against the main principles of Islam itself.
What if the religious doctrine itself says you aren't a true follower if you don't follow certain it strictly?Yeah but turning a blind eye to certain things doesn't make you a non-muslim, it just means you arent a muslim purist or all in so to speak. I dont know Islam is a religious doctrine and muslims are people. If they believe Allah is the only god and Muhammed is his messenger they are muslims to some extent at least whether or not they follow it strictly. Dunno maybe im just talking mumbo jumbo.
Then hopefully a lot of people dont give a shit about that especially if its imcompatible with human progress since then. I know quite a few people like that. Im not disputing that you're most likely technically correct.What if the religious doctrine itself says you aren't a true follower if you don't follow certain it strictly?
Not quite sure what point you're trying to make, especially in relation to JH's interview.My point is these SJ campaigns are all lip service. Kneel down for ‘Black Lives Matter’ but what has really changed?
Euro nations wanted to wear the One Love armband at WC’22 but once a little pressure came they folded.
These campaigns are puffery for people to feel like they actually did something.
Care to give me a list of things that are more important than human rights?Man, I’m all for LGBT+ people having the rights to live in peace and what not, but this stuff is going too far with Jordan. So because he’s going to KSA it invalidates what he said before?
Y’all need to come off it and focus on more important things. I’m not the biggest fan of football being the new medium for puffy social justice campaigns.
Henderson seems to be a complete sell out and it's good and normal that people feel disgusted by that. Maybe you should try to increase your standards of human decency because they seem very low.Man, I’m all for LGBT+ people having the rights to live in peace and what not, but this stuff is going too far with Jordan. So because he’s going to KSA it invalidates what he said before?
Y’all need to come off it and focus on more important things. I’m not the biggest fan of football being the new medium for puffy social justice campaigns.
You realize the Old Testament says homosexuals should die? It also allows you to beat your slave to death as long as he/she doesn't die until 1-2 days after the beating. Don't see many Christians doing that nowadays, though, despite the Old Testament being unchanged.I get what you're saying here but that's not really all that compatible with Islam. One of the main selling points of Islam, and one of the things Muslims try to use as proof Islam is the only true religion, is that the Quran is literally unchanged from the day it was written.
Islam isn't really a religion that can "evolve" because by doing so it sort of goes against the main principles of Islam itself.
His family were "secured" years ago. He's already a multi millionaire.Moving for money at this stage to secure your family is as good as any move in my book. He should just own it
If they want to live like us plebs, sure.His family were "secured" years ago. He's already a multi millionaire.
Exactly, me too. If he can't be honest, he can just be quiet. How hard is it to just keep his head down for a couple of years while making tons of money? We'd already forgotten about him.I'm pretty sure I'd make the same move as Henderson but I like to think I wouldn't lie about my motives (I'm also greedy).
I think that talk is cheap and most of the "campaigning" is really just waffle which achieves so little.Not quite sure what point you're trying to make, especially in relation to JH's interview.