Erik ten Hag vs Sancho

Plastic Evra

Full Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2023
Messages
1,869
I may be wrong but I think clubs and managers have to be clear and truthful reporting injuries due to the PL’s broadcast and betting partners or something.
That makes some sense but it also seems that like in rugby we're moving towards clubs being vague about injuries (nature and duration) unless cleared by the player himself on the grounds it is medical information and the patient should have control about how it is disclosed in public.
 

Anustart89

Full Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
15,962
What did ETH gain by calling out Sancho in public? He could have said he had a minor injury. This does not excuse Sancho's actions of course.
What do you think Sancho's reaction would've been if ten Hag had lied and said he was injured then?
 

Winrar

Full Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2012
Messages
12,986
Location
Maryland
This rebuild has to be built on the right culture and principles. If we finish outside the top 4 this season because ETH had to clear house, then so be it. The one consistent line you can draw across the post fergie years, is we didn't sign enough players with fight and commitment. It has to stop, and the ones who are left have to go.
I agree. The squad has been struggling with disciplinary problems for too long and someone had to rip off the bandaids soon or later.

It's not pleasant seeing one controversy after another with our club's name in it, but I believe it's a necessary pain.
 

Plastic Evra

Full Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2023
Messages
1,869
Can he be banned from using the facilities? For 300k a week, I am guessing you could buy your own gym.
I don't know the exact conditions (Sancho or Lukaku earlier trained on a different ground or separately) but I believe there's a Sport Arbitration Court -don't know the exact English name- precedent you can't ban contracted players from training even if alone.
 

whitbyviking

Full Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2022
Messages
2,452
Deja vu after Ronaldo. Looks like Ten Haag might have an ego problem.
What a poor take. Sancho has been given every opportunity and been fully supported by ETH despite all evidence pointing to the fact he’s doing the bare minimum while picking up £300k + per week. Given all that happened last season for ETH to give the (innocuous) statement he did being vaguely negative speaks volumes to me, and it’s certainly not about the manager’s ego.
 

lex talionis

Full Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2017
Messages
14,458
I haven't been following story minute by minute but it seems to me the hatchet must be buried. The manager had a public pop at Sancho, which was wrong, Sancho had his public pop at the manager, which was wrong and nothing is to be gained to having this drama continue to drag for weeks and months.
 

Dve

Full Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2019
Messages
3,020
This is a fecking crisis though. Shaw, Varane, Martinez, Antony, Sancho all out. We already had a thin squad, I’m not sure how we’ll cope. Its not looking good brev
Oh, I think we'll be fine with Høylund and Amrabat coming in and Mount, Mantinez and Kainoo coming back.
 

LARulz

Full Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2009
Messages
18,247
I still don't get why ETH had to say it and not just say something more diplomatic but after he said it, Sancho's reaction wasn't the right one. And then if it's true he hasn't apologised then he is done at the club
 

madzo2007

Full Member
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
2,208
Location
Belfast, Ireland
Exactly, but Fergie understood the character and created the right environment and therefore could do that but Eric always turned up to training, trained hard, was a leader to the younger players etc, alright, he was a maverick but he carried the team and was punished (and accepted the punishment) when it was fair.

Sancho just wants special treatment for the sake of wanting to be special. Meetings are above me, I just want to play. I turn up when I want. Eric never did any of that shit, he had standards and was a professional.
And Cantona won us games and trophies. Fergie knew he was special so treated differently and Cantona showed he was special

Sancho has shown us not very much apart from a few glimpses now and again. It sounds like Sancho has a big ego and does not take criticism very well. Theres only so nice ETH can be but if someone keeps taking the piss before you have to try something different.
 

whitbyviking

Full Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2022
Messages
2,452
I quite like the idea of him being made to play with the U23s though, rather than just picking up his salary for nothing.
He’d probably enjoy that, big fish in a small pond and can coast through games.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Messages
17,246
I still don't get why ETH had to say it and not just say something more diplomatic but after he said it, Sancho's reaction wasn't the right one. And then if it's true he hasn't apologised then he is done at the club
Whatever ETH said, Sancho would have had a childish reaction.

He has no accountability and this isn't the first time he's been called out for poor application in training.

If Sancho doesn't tweet out that garbage, this would have been a non-story based on what ETH said.

He should never play for us again.
 

Judas

Open to offers
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
36,491
Location
Where the grass is greener.
I haven't been following story minute by minute but it seems to me the hatchet must be buried. The manager had a public pop at Sancho, which was wrong, Sancho had his public pop at the manager, which was wrong and nothing is to be gained to having this drama continue to drag for weeks and months.
Players are far too protected if what Ten Hag said counts as a pop.
 

Dve

Full Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2019
Messages
3,020
What did ETH gain by calling out Sancho in public? He could have said he had a minor injury. This does not excuse Sancho's actions of course.
I think he'd just had it with Sancho and didn't care to hold back when asked. If nothing else, he got to demonstrate what happens if you cross the line.
 

BeltUp

Full Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
664
Location
Levenshulme, MCR
Supports
United
I still don't get why ETH had to say it and not just say something more diplomatic but after he said it, Sancho's reaction wasn't the right one. And then if it's true he hasn't apologised then he is done at the club
Maybe Erik was setting a trap, hoping Sancho would react. Better an angry Sancho than a slothful one.
 

Rolaholic

Full Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2016
Messages
11,240
The bit I'm now wondering about is why the club didn't try to ship him harder on the window. Seems the relationship was probably strained already ? Or did the current fallout start later ?

I think he can probably hop to a 5-7m£ / year contract easily still and we can maybe sell him for 30 ?

Surely he understands he needs to talk on the pitch and with Antony's leave of absence this is maybe his only chance to claw back a starting position ? Guess not.
He played quite a bit during preseason so I doubt the relationship was strained to this level at the start of the season.

The player probably expected to be a starter to begin the season and likely dropped further levels in training afterwards leading to the subsequent frustration from ETH and the situation we now have.

Personally don't think the manager was in the wrong, I believe he'd have given the player a fair shot at earning his place back in the XI had he showed it in training and in games.

Just think it was a massive own goal from the player if his aim was to salvage his career at United given the Antony situation exploding at the very same time. He'd have been the starter immediately had he been applying himself properly instead of throwing a fit over that comment.

The club was briefing journos all summer that this was a sort of make or break season for him under ETH so that's why he wasn't placed on the market. I'm sure the club and manager all planned that he'd be given even more chances to come good before this all kicked off.

Evidently it hasn't played out as anyone envisioned and now the situation/relationship looks untenable all of a sudden but that's a very different context to during the summer window.
 

prateik

Full Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2005
Messages
42,219
Totally fine with Sancho being sold.. Totally fine with him not playing for us again and training with the reserves...

But complaining about him not entertaining a move to Saudi is ridiculous. Maybe he doesnt want to go there.. that is completely fine.
Also, asking him to apologize to ETH is so silly.. ETH being petty here.

I don't care what happens, but that is some stupid PR spin from the club.
 

whitbyviking

Full Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2022
Messages
2,452
And Cantona won us games and trophies. Fergie knew he was special so treated differently and Cantona showed he was special

Sancho has shown us not very much apart from a few glimpses now and again. It sounds like Sancho has a big ego and does not take criticism very well. Theres only so nice you can be if someone keeps taking the piss before you have to try something different.
Cantona gave us maximum effort when he played, you could see he literally fought for th team. This attitude earns you some leeway in my opinion, same as the club obviously giving the likes of Keane and Rooney plenty of rope. They had their problems and the club supported them, they repaid that. Sancho has never repaid anything.
 

Gandalf Greyhame

If in doubt, follow your nose!
Scout
Joined
Dec 7, 2013
Messages
7,474
Location
Red Card for Casemiro!

Really unfortunate that things had to escalate to this point honestly.

Never in a million years did I anticipate that that fairly innocuous comment by ETH after the Arsenal heartbreak, would create this sort of shit show afterwards rather than light a fire in the player like I assume the manager and everyone else believed it would/should have...
Freudian crap coming up, but here's my take. Fragile and stubborn egos often come from insecurities. Sancho plays like someone who's lost belief in his ability - like he's already lost the 50-50 or the tackle or the sprint to a through ball or an attempted take on even before he's stepped onto the pitch. He's insecure about his ability because he hasn't delivered in so long, he doesn't know if he can. And he'd do anything but admit it because it's a difficult pill to swallow. He'll avoid committing to the cause, enjoy his fabulous wages, find faults in everyone but himself. He'll blame the manager for not picking him, complain about ill-treatment compared to teammates, and make public posts and burn bridges in this fight because all of that is still better to him, in his mind, that stepping onto the pitch giving it his all and realizing it's just not enough anymore. He's so afraid of failing at this stage that he'll do anything to not try.

The solution was to intervene earlier. An arm around the shoulder, and stubborn persistence from the manager about starting him and providing positive reinforcement even when things aren't going his way. The solution is regular time to get his confidence up through moments where he ends up surprising himself with how good his own play is, and sustaining it through validation from teammates and manager. But all of that that requires patience and a tolerance for poor returns that a club like United cannot afford to provide. So I think he's done here. If he finds a club where he can recover his confidence and overcome his insecurities, there's still a baller in there. But it won't happen at United, and it won't happen if he keeps trying to run away from his fear of not being good enough anymore. The latter will be dicey given the sycophantic poor company such insecure high earners keep.
 

Remember the geese

Full Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
7,320
Location
Northampton
I haven't been following story minute by minute but it seems to me the hatchet must be buried. The manager had a public pop at Sancho, which was wrong, Sancho had his public pop at the manager, which was wrong and nothing is to be gained to having this drama continue to drag for weeks and months.
All that needs to happen is for ten Hag to ensure that Sancho never plays a single minute for us ever again.
 

crossy1686

career ending
Joined
Jun 5, 2010
Messages
32,146
Location
Manchester/Stockholm

m1tch

Full Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
7,148
Yes. There is a poster here who works at Carrington. He has refused to leave the academy changing rooms during training schedule, and has been there since Tuesday.
I suppose if he hasn't left changing room since Tuesday then he was probably not late on Wednesday and Thursday.
 

Plastic Evra

Full Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2023
Messages
1,869
He played quite a bit during preseason so I doubt the relationship was strained to this level at the start of the season.

The player probably expected to be a starter to begin the season and likely dropped further levels in training afterwards leading to the subsequent frustration from ETH and the situation we now have.

Personally don't think the manager was in the wrong, I believe he'd have given the player a fair shot at earning his place back in the XI had he showed it in training and in games.

Just think it was a massive own goal from the player if his aim was to salvage his career at United given the Antony situation exploding at the very same time. He'd have been the starter immediately had he been applying himself properly instead of throwing a fit over that comment.

The club was briefing journos all summer that this was a sort of make or break season for him under ETH so that's why he wasn't placed on the market. I'm sure the club and manager all planned that he'd be given even more chances to come good before this all kicked off.

Evidently it hasn't played out as anyone envisioned and now the situation/relationship looks untenable all of a sudden but that's a very different context to during the summer window.
Sounds coherent, yes I imagine things deteriorated recently.

Totally fine with Sancho being sold.. Totally fine with him not playing for us again and training with the reserves...

But complaining about him not entertaining a move to Saudi is ridiculous. Maybe he doesnt want to go there.. that is completely fine.
Also, asking him to apologize to ETH is so silly.. ETH being petty here.

I don't care what happens, but that is some stupid PR spin from the club.
Mandated apology from the top is a little silly but for as hollow it could be, it's an essential step to talking it out, if they can do that...
 

Mercurial

Full Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2017
Messages
2,424
On the field, Sancho's game was weak,
The goals and assists were far from peak.

Performance seemed beyond repair.
He left the fans in profound despair.

Earning big, the pressure grew,
Underperformed, a tantrum threw.

Underachievement, a bitter pill,
Struggled to rise, but standing still.

Time to leave, the moment is now,
Slowly back out and take a bow.
 

RedDevil@84

Full Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2014
Messages
21,800
Location
USA
The manager had a public pop at Sancho, which was wrong,
It wasn't even a pop. Managers usually use the "dropped due to tactical reasons" excuse . Jose would have been more direct.
Or if you were Guardiola, wouldn't even say anything, the player would just vanish.
 

Dve

Full Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2019
Messages
3,020
Freudian crap coming up, but here's my take. Fragile and stubborn egos often come from insecurities. Sancho plays like someone who's lost belief in his ability - like he's already lost the 50-50 or the tackle or the sprint to a through ball or an attempted take on even before he's stepped onto the pitch. He's insecure about his ability because he hasn't delivered in so long, he doesn't know if he can. And he'd do anything but admit it because it's a difficult pill to swallow. He'll avoid committing to the cause, enjoy his fabulous wages, find faults in everyone but himself. He'll blame the manager for not picking him, complain about ill-treatment compared to teammates, and make public posts and burn bridges in this fight because all of that is still better to him, in his mind, that stepping onto the pitch giving it his all and realizing it's just not enough anymore. He's so afraid of failing at this stage that he'll do anything to not try.

The solution was to intervene earlier. An arm around the shoulder, and stubborn persistence from the manager about starting him and providing positive reinforcement even when things aren't going his way. The solution is regular time to get his confidence up through moments where he ends up surprising himself with how good his own play is, and sustaining it through validation from teammates and manager. But all of that that requires patience and a tolerance for poor returns that a club like United cannot afford to provide. So I think he's done here. If he finds a club where he can recover his confidence and overcome his insecurities, there's still a baller in there. But it won't happen at United, and it won't happen if he keeps trying to run away from his fear of not being good enough anymore. The latter will be dicey given the sycophantic poor company such insecure high earners keep.
Insecurity perhaps, but I think the main issue here is lack of self discipline.
 

dcrompton

Full Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2003
Messages
1,259
Location
The Cock of the North
His Twitter statement said it all, “I just want to play football with a smile on my face.”

To quote a famous Italian philosopher: “They don’t want to play with pressure. They don’t want to play with stress. Ah ya, it’s easy, in this way.”
This is spot on. I play over-45s football twice a week for pleasure but there's a grimace on my face because I'm running around trying to win! Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard and based on his time at United, I'm not even sure Sancho has that much talent.