Erik ten Hag vs Sancho

[djembatheking]

100% behind Ten Hag on this and it doesn`t matter about timing and being short of wingers it had to be dealt with now, the minute Sancho spat the dummy and went against Ten Hag it forced the issue. I would put money on it that the winners in the team like Casemiro, Martinez, Bruno and Onana would be fuming with Sanchos lack of effort on matchdays, which we have all seen and from what we are now hearing his general attitude to time keeping, training and effort to achieve that he puts in. We need players to go the extra mile for each other not refuse to train or turn up late.
I just hope whatever the result is against a very good Brighton side and with so many of our players out injured we see a team out there pulling together for themselves and ETH and giving everything. feck Sancho and his entitled childlike behaviour, big feckin baby.

 

[saivet]

I think ultimately this plays out with him leaving but I wonder if he'll get bored of training alone and apologise. No idea how stubborn a character he is but having this kind of situation until January is a silly position to put yourself in, especially if you want a move in January. His training levels will likely be even worse, lacking team football and general football, plus coming across like a guy that holds a grudge for months is not exactly a good image you want if you want a transfer to top team or league.

 

[frostbite]

Those claiming he should have been dealing with this in-house - don't you think he's done that already? Read the reports, Sancho's tardiness isn't a new phenomenon, EtH has been dealing with it since last season itself, and he had kept it in-house so far.

Let's say he never made this comment after the Arsenal game. Why do you think Sancho would have magically improved somehow if he hadn't all this while? If EtH didn't take try a new approach and call Sancho out publicly in a bid to change his ways, he would have continued being half assed about his job. EtH would still have a 350k problem to solve.

When reports of that surface later, the same fans would blame EtH for not being consistent in his standards and pandering to high pay players. It's a lose lose for EtH from these fans anyways.

Fact is, if Sancho truly wanted to play, this was the best time for him to take his chance. With Antony out for a while, he could have gotten regular run of games on the RW, and found his form. All he needed to do was keep his head down, meet the training goals, and show his talking on the pitch. Rashford is good precedence to show that even top players will be held to these standards, that it's not personal, and that as long as you mend your ways, you'll be back. Sancho chose to be a petulant child instead, with nothing to back it up. That itself should tell you how rotten his attitude is.

I back the manager on this, good riddance to another entitled and ill-advised high profile marquee player. The club should reflect on how this was made possible through the ridiculous wages they sanctioned for someone who never earned it.

I am also saying good riddance to Sancho.

The problem is that ETH, by going public, only made it harder to get rid of Sancho. Who is going to buy a player who has been labeled as lazy by his manager? ETH should have said nothing in public, isolated Sancho internally, and asked the management to find a club for him. By going public, ETH achieved absolutely nothing AND made it harder to sell Sancho.

 

[matherto]

If what you are saying is true and the manager needs to do that in public, he already lost the locker. I hope this isn't true.

The locker room was lost before he came. The rot is real.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

I am also saying good riddance to Sancho.

The problem is that ETH, by going public, only made it harder to get rid of Sancho. Who is going to buy a player who has been labeled as lazy by his manager? ETH should have said nothing in public, isolated Sancho internally, and asked the management to find a club for him. By going public, ETH achieved absolutely nothing AND made it harder to sell Sancho.

you dont think it would get out that sancho is isolated and training all by himself? Really at this point sancho finally forced his hand, as EtH barely said anything publically and sancho threw a little hissy fit.

 

[matherto]

This is such amateur level of thought. It's not the first time something like this has happened. Don't you people remember what happened under Mourinho? Same crap. We all know how it ended. All this has done is put insane pressure on ourselves when we are already reeling from the Antony and Greenwood saga.

Perhaps though, Mourinho was right and ETH is right. The dressing room at United since SAF left is a fecking shambles that appears to be running itself with the occasional nod to a new manager coming in and vague attempts at pleasing them before they revert back to type.

Rangnick said it, we need open heart surgery.

 

[Rightnr]

I am also saying good riddance to Sancho.

The problem is that ETH, by going public, only made it harder to get rid of Sancho. Who is going to buy a player who has been labeled as lazy by his manager? ETH should have said nothing in public, isolated Sancho internally, and asked the management to find a club for him. By going public, ETH achieved absolutely nothing AND made it harder to sell Sancho.

If you think Sancho's character is a secret to any interested club, you have another thing coming.

It's only at United where we buy these prima donnas without any proper due diligence being carried out.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Can the thread title be updated?

Erik ten Hag vs Sancho | Baldy wins

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

I am also saying good riddance to Sancho.

The problem is that ETH, by going public, only made it harder to get rid of Sancho. Who is going to buy a player who has been labeled as lazy by his manager? ETH should have said nothing in public, isolated Sancho internally, and asked the management to find a club for him. By going public, ETH achieved absolutely nothing AND made it harder to sell Sancho.

If our managers needed to think of protecting player value when making public comments, then our method of enforcing standards becomes dependent on our transfer team's ability to sell effectively.

Sancho would have found it hard to take buyers at his current wages anyways, and it won't exactly be discreet when clubs find out he's for sale. Do you think the media wouldn't be asking the same questions, then? The coming run of games is when Sancho would have gotten a regular start - should EtH start him despite him being lackadaisical in training? If he doesn't start him, don't you think the media won't be asking why anyways, and that this same saga would then resurface? And this state of not starting him but also not calling him out to protect value would have continued till we found a buyer. It's very much possible that the club doesn't find a buyer for a 350k player till next summer, how do you expect EtH to deal with things till then?

All of this is predicated on your assumption that a public calling out is definitely going to reduce his resale value far more than his poor performances on the pitch. His resale value had plummetted anyways, and wouldn't have improved till Sancho mended his ways because there was no way he was starting otherwise.

This is precisely the kind of thinking that held previous managers back. A manager's job isn't to think of resale value, it's to get results on the pitch through whatever means necessary - in EtH's case it seems to be through adhering to the standards he sets.

 

[jadaba]

By the end of his current contract with us, Sancho will be 26. Surely he can't let this be his last major payday as a player?

If reports that he's open to a move in January but won't accept a pay cut are accurate then it's a terribly-advised approach by him to take. If he has no intention of reviving his career with us nor mending the situation with ETH, he'll barely have game time for the next two and a half seasons and no club that boasts a large payroll will be interested in him. He risks eventually out of contract and away from any high paying/playing level. It's absolutely in his interest to either step up and apologise and really demonstrate his value, or move away and accept a significant pay cut if the situation is truly irredeemable. The latter option at least gives him a chance to try and prove us wrong and secure a big payday in the future.

 

[Leethal]

By the end of his current contract with us, Sancho will be 26. Surely he can't let this be his last major payday as a player?

If reports that he's open to a move in January but won't accept a pay cut are accurate then it's a terribly-advised approach by him to take. If he has no intention of reviving his career with us nor mending the situation with ETH, he'll barely have game time for the next two and a half seasons and no club that boasts a large payroll will be interested in him. He risks eventually out of contract and away from any high paying/playing level. It's absolutely in his interest to either step up and apologise and really demonstrate his value, or move away and accept a significant pay cut if the situation is truly irredeemable. The latter option at least gives him a chance to try and prove us wrong and secure a big payday in the future.

Of course it's not accurate. It's just shit journalists making stuff up, (as per usual), because it's United related and will generate clicks. And silly people buying into it, justifying their bull shit.

Unless it comes from the player, his representative, or the club, it's likely a load of shit.

 

[caid]

I think ultimately this plays out with him leaving but I wonder if he'll get bored of training alone and apologise. No idea how stubborn a character he is but having this kind of situation until January is a silly position to put yourself in, especially if you want a move in January. His training levels will likely be even worse, lacking team football and general football, plus coming across like a guy that holds a grudge for months is not exactly a good image you want if you want a transfer to top team or league.

Sancho is silly is my main take away from the situation at this point. Its just self destructive. Digging a hole for himself that'll make starting again increasingly difficult.

 

[RedDevil@84]

If reports that he's open to a move in January but won't accept a pay cut are accurate then it's a terribly-advised approach by him to take

Why? The money is ridiculous (one of the top 10 in PL) and no one is gonna pay that kind of money for him again after his performance at United.

 

[Laurencio]

This is exactly why the supporters should be backing ten Hag not bashing him like many are doing these days. He’s trying to bring back standards to a club that has forgotten what they are.

We've heard that from every manager since Moyes was sacked. They've all bemoaned the lack of standards and spoken about how they will bring standards back - often by throwing a player under the bus. Let's see if he actually does it - jury is still out - publicly admonishing a player isn't the same as high standards.

 

[Winrar]

You can argue whether ETH should have kept this spat private or not all day long, but It was only ever ending one way when Sancho publicly went against him.

 

[caid]

You can argue whether ETH should have kept this spat private or not all day long, but It was only ever ending one way when Sancho publicly went against him.

It was only ending one way regardless if this is his reaction. He might have sped the process up or made it more public but feel like this is on Sancho and it was inevitable.

 

[jadaba]

Why? The money is ridiculous (one of the top 10 in PL) and no one is gonna pay that kind of money for him again after his performance at United.

That's exactly the point I'm arguing. Usually until they reach their early / mid 30s, players will be earning a consistently higher and higher salary with age and with each new contract. He would benefit more by taking an approach that accepts a major cut sooner rather than later, prove himself once more elsewhere, and then climb back to a higher salary eventually. If he's in a scenario come 2026 where he's out of contract and has been on the bench for years, he'd struggle to get even £60-70K a week at his next club. At least right now he's still relatively young and while his perceived value is pretty low, it's not yet entirely irrecoverable. If he stays to collect his salary and doesn't feature at all for 2-3 years, his career at the top level would be over by the age of 26.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

You can argue whether ETH should have kept this spat private or not all day long, but It was only ever ending one way when Sancho publicly went against him.

He's probably kept the spat private for a long time and nothing has changed, so at that point he's finally come out publicly with it.

I wouldn't be surprised. Rashford turns up late once and gets benched and Ten Hag publicly states all of this. Garnacho does something similar and doesn't play during the entire pre season, and again Ten Hag publicly states this. The reaction from both of these players? Keep their heads down and work hard.

Sancho doesn't put the effort in training and during games, and gets the same treatment from Ten Hag after over a year. Sancho gets theatrical and turns into a moaning cnut.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

You'd think a manager calling out a lazy petulant player and working to rebuild standards that have long since sunk into the mud, would be something 100% of United fans would be supportive of. But nope. Of course a few soft arses take umbridge with such management and would prefer to have a go at him

It's only the anti ten Hag posters who seem to be siding with Sancho.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

He's probably kept the spat private for a long time and nothing has changed, so at that point he's finally come out publicly with it.

I wouldn't be surprised. Rashford turns up late once and gets benched and Ten Hag publicly states all of this. Garnacho does something similar and doesn't play during the entire pre season, and again Ten Hag publicly states this. The reaction from both of these players? Keep their heads down and work hard.

Sancho doesn't put the effort in training and during games, and gets the same treatment from Ten Hag after over a year. Sancho gets theatrical and turns into a moaning cnut.

Totally agree. Look at the pictures of Pellistri working his arse off over the break to get himself in better shape for the season. Night and day in attitude.

 

[RedRonaldo]

By the end of his current contract with us, Sancho will be 26. Surely he can't let this be his last major payday as a player?

If reports that he's open to a move in January but won't accept a pay cut are accurate then it's a terribly-advised approach by him to take. If he has no intention of reviving his career with us nor mending the situation with ETH, he'll barely have game time for the next two and a half seasons and no club that boasts a large payroll will be interested in him. He risks eventually out of contract and away from any high paying/playing level. It's absolutely in his interest to either step up and apologise and really demonstrate his value, or move away and accept a significant pay cut if the situation is truly irredeemable. The latter option at least gives him a chance to try and prove us wrong and secure a big payday in the future.

No idea what he wan to achieve in his career, he seems to be unmotivated type of player. But by the end of his contract, he would have pocketed 90m+ from us in his bank account anyway. Maybe he is happy with that.

 

[jadaba]

Of course it's not accurate. It's just shit journalists making stuff up, (as per usual), because it's United related and will generate clicks. And silly people buying into it, justifying their bull shit.

Unless it comes from the player, his representative, or the club, it's likely a load of shit.

It's right to be sceptical about the reports, but it's also pretty rare to hear from a player, their representative, or a club directly (with this saga ironically being a pretty significant exception). A lot of reports will be entirely fabricated, some will be educated guesses, but a not insignificant number will be informed by the player or their representatives themselves. I think it's fair not to dismiss them all as anti-United speculation, and this one in particular seems realistic.

 

[jadaba]

No idea what he wan to achieve in his career, he seems to be unmotivated type of player. But by the end of his contract, he would have pocketed 90m+ from us in his bank account anyway. Maybe he is happy with that.

Yep that's very true. And the possible option of a semi retirement at 26 to the Saudi Pro League may be a career lottery win for him.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

It's very disappointing to see Sancho behaving like this, it's his third season and so far he didn't perform at all on a consistent basis, he was an expensive signing and a lot was expected of him but clearly he is incapable of coping with it and rising his levels.

It's better if he is isolated from the squad and let go in Jan next year, this will definitely send a message to the squad that there are minimum standards that have to be met to be part of the first team and it seems based on the news coming out the players are also disappointed with Sancho which is a good indication that the team is united behind Ten Hag.

 

[Zed 101]

You dont have to be a genius to infer that EtH say Sancho doesn't train well. Thats what publicly calling out a player means. Sancho has reacted exactly the way you would have expected him to.

My inference would be that Sancho was already very much aware of why he was left out of the squad and so he would not need to infer.... as for reacting you are right he reacting in exactly the way I would expect an immature, entitled, lazy adolescent to act, he is probably very sensitive because he came here expecting to be the next greatest talent that everyone told him he was, unfortunately his lack of application means he has failed miserably, as for the manner in which he reacted, there is no tact, no subtlety or awareness of any failing on his behalf, what I infer from this is that Sancho is blaming his abject failure at this club on anyone and everyone expect himself!

 

[Zed 101]

Why talk about Sancho not training to our "standard" at all? What the feck was that supposed to achieve?

Well looks like Sancho will have no option but to either knuckle down, apologise and improve or leave, ETH has got the backing of the press and the vast majority of the fans and Sancho is now the pariah.... so maybe that is exactly what it was meant to achieve ... worked with Ronaldo, seems to be working again.... now ETH just has to call out Spadehead in the media and he will be 3 for 3

 

[Winrar]

He's probably kept the spat private for a long time and nothing has changed, so at that point he's finally come out publicly with it.

I wouldn't be surprised. Rashford turns up late once and gets benched and Ten Hag publicly states all of this. Garnacho does something similar and doesn't play during the entire pre season, and again Ten Hag publicly states this. The reaction from both of these players? Keep their heads down and work hard.

Sancho doesn't put the effort in training and during games, and gets the same treatment from Ten Hag after over a year. Sancho gets theatrical and turns into a moaning cnut.

Yeah that's how I see it as well. ETH already gave him special treatments in the form of a months long sabbatical to clear his head, and sort out any mental blocks he might have been going through. Bringing this issue to public was basically a last resort attempt to wake him up.

Sancho dug his own grave from start to finish, and as much as I wanted to give him time to adjust to the club, I don't see an avenue to defend him further in any way.

 

[stevoc]

But there comes a time when things have been dealth with in-house for so long that it is no longer a solution. Ferguson publically challenged Ashley Young about his diving antics: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2012/apr/20/alex-ferguson-has-word-ashley-young

Ferguson also challenged Rooney publically. Sometimes it just comes down to it. ETH has stood by Sancho and let him have time to recover due to to personal issues. Now it seems that he has had enough, and that Sancho needs to either take the challenge and prove ETH wrong, or do as he did, go off partying. Berbatov said the following: "Had Jadon Sancho done this when Sir Alex Ferguson was the manager, then he would have been out, because no one is bigger than the team." I think he's spot on.

Sancho could have just answered - then I need to up my game and I will prove to myself, ETH and my team that I am ready for the challenge (and earn my bloated pay-check).

Well looks like that hasn't worked in this case. Now it's all public we'll probably have to ship him out in January for a cut price and take a massive hit on the £80m spent on him.

 

[Strelok]

We've heard that from every manager since Moyes was sacked. They've all bemoaned the lack of standards and spoken about how they will bring standards back - often by throwing a player under the bus. Let's see if he actually does it - jury is still out - publicly admonishing a player isn't the same as high standards.

Agree it's throwing a player under the bus but not the same imo. Let's take Jose for example. He used to throw players left, right, center under the bus after bad results to excuse himself from the blame.

For ETH he clearly doesn't do that. Tbh it's the first time in my +25 years watching football that I've seen a manager allowing a player to have a few months off to deal with his personal/mental issue. ETH also reportedly arranged calls for Sancho so he wouldn't be late anymore. After all that efforts, which I'd say what we know is only a bit of what actually happened then still nothing changed imo ETH simply had no option left to get a reaction from Sancho. And he said that before the match, not after.

In short imo previous managers like Jose threw a player under the bus mostly not for keeping the standards but to try to deflect the blame and pressure on them after bad results. ETH publicly criticized Sancho not for the purpose above but to keep the standards. Same action but very different motives behind imo.

 

[sepulturite]

I see the usual posters that occupy the ETH thread with their agenda posting are in here too talking absolute bollocks in the last few pages. Any excuse to have a dig at the manager even though he's done everything exactly right when it comes to Sancho.

 

[stevoc]

How have you managed to bold one line and completely miss the entire point? The situation isn’t that ETH made it public. The situation isn’t that sancho responded. The situation is he isn’t training at a high enough level or with an appropriate attitude to be picked in the squad. The rest is irrelevant bollocks - it’s a side show to one simple irrefutable fact: He wasn’t being sodding picked anyway.

I disagreed with the bolded part that the rest of your point was based upon. I didn't miss anything.

This whole drama is a load of bollocks that should have been kept private in my opinion. But sure at least it gives the media something to run with in their continual quest for negative United news for the next few weeks.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

So when ETH was asked why Sancho wasn’t selected in the squad, he should’ve just said he’s not in the squad next question? It would have fueled even more speculation. After Sancho was pulled from the squad and trained by himself for months to get his head right, everyone knew Sancho was the problem. This is not a secret. ETH left him out and said Sancho is failing to put in the effort required, end of. People act like he called Sancho a cnut.

 

[stevoc]

Posts like these keep popping up and they just scream “I’ve got no management experience and I wouldn’t like my boss to make an example of me”.

If you say so mate. You'd obviously be able to tell based on a few posts about a player on a football forum.

 

[RedDevil@84]

and let go in Jan next year

As per his rumored salary, the club owes him like 48M+ in wages. He can't be just let go in Jan. He won't go anywhere. We are broke to pay him that kind of money.

 

[Mickeza]

I disagreed with the bolded part that the rest of your point was based upon. I didn't miss anything.

This whole drama is a load of bollocks that should have been kept private in my opinion. But sure at least it gives the media something to run with in their continual quest for negative United news for the next few weeks.

It couldn’t have been kept private. It was public the minute Sancho was left out of the squad. He wasn’t going to suddenly start performing in training - his response proves he feels he’s been great in training - so he was being left out this weekend too regardless. Unless you think ETH should just pick him despite he attitude and performance levels just to avoid media attention…

 

[Zed 101]

As per his rumored salary, the club owes him like 48M+ in wages. He can't be just let go in Jan. He won't go anywhere. We are broke to pay him that kind of money.

Fairly sure refusing to train will be a breach of his contract, only reason not to settle is Utd will want some return on the investment

 

[RedDevil@84]

It would have fueled even more speculation

Probably something like ETH and the club have destroyed Sancho. He was a brilliant player. And he is being sidelined by ETH's ego or something of that sort.
But going by some of the posts here, some people already believe this.

 

[Mmm-Qatarian]

I'm at the point where I think the club should enforce an age-related wage cap, whereby the maximum wage you'll be offered by the club rises as you get older and have achieved more in the game.

Maybe I'm being naïve, and maybe it's not feasible, but it would mean that sitting on your laurels and earning absolutely eye-watering sums of money when you're yet to reach your peak no longer becomes an option at United.

If it means we miss out on the "starboys" of world football, so be it. I'm convinced that there's plenty of young and talented players that we should be capable of identifying who will play for United without being offered feck off sums of money; maybe it's time we start tapping into our vast scouting network rather than targeting Europe's hottest prospect every single summer.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Fairly sure refusing to train will be a breach of his contract, only reason not to settle is Utd will want some return on the investment

He is rumored to be refusing to apologize and not refusing to train.

 

[Ish]

Not sure who would buy him. Especially on his wages.

We could hope PSG takes a punt when Mbappe leaves. But yeah, outside of a Saudi move, I can’t see us shifting him in Europe on that wages. Sancho could of course, agree to move for his own benefit and take a pay cut but that seems less likely.