Erik ten Hag vs Sancho

[jontheblue]

In a way this is a good opportunity for ETH and the club to make a proper defining statement about what is expected from our players. Namely that if you come to Manchester United, if you accept the generous terms we give, then you have to be willing to give 100% all the time, everywhere on and off the pitch. If you don't want to, or can't do that to the required standard anymore, then you either leave at the earliest opportunity or you take the consequences for your career by sitting out the squad.

It was one of the reasons Ferguson was so successful. Same with Pep's City - in both cases, for all the money, individual flair, coaching, systems, etc both teams were/are more often than not the harder working team on the pitch and the hardest training off the pitch

That doesn't require money, or the best quality players. It's about attitude and culture. It's dependent on good recruiting to get the right mentality players then once they've moved, a culture at the club that ensures the player has the right attitude from day one

I had thought in ETH, it was looking like United finally had a manager with the authority and the cahonas to properly take charge and take no nonsense. But I've also thought for a long time, United can't have a period of sustained success with the Glazers still in charge because no matter who the manager is, the attitude of those at the very top trickles down and United's owners don't have excellence or winning as their number one priority.

 

[NLunited]

I‘m guessing Ten Hag didn‘t get the response he is hoping for.

But neither is Sancho: his move massively backfired on him. Nothing infuriates MU fans more than a player not trying hard.

He‘s done unless he apologizes and starts working his arse off.

 

[saik]

“Sancho is open to a move as for him it’s only ever been about the football and giving his best, that said he will not facilitate any move by taking a pay cut and will sit out the remainder of his unmatchable contract”

Another long term headache due to stupid wages. Fantastic

Where was this quote from? Either way the first part of that quote doesn't go hand in hand with the second part. If it was always about football then you can surely take a pay cut. And if you will sit out your remainder of the contract because of the wages then it was not always about football.

Why can't all this shit happen when the Saudi window was open? We could have at least saved ourselves some wages.

It did. It was reported that one Saudi club made a loan offer but he was busy partying in NY at that time and didn't want to discuss any offers.
Anyways, he doesn't want to go to Saudi. And no one else will offer him the crazy wages he is on. Let's see what he cares more about.

 

[TheGame]

EtH hung Sancho out to dry in the public. There is nothing to chill, it's the truth. In this age of media, telling a player isn't selected because he didnt train well is akin to saying he is a fecking lazy bastard.

Rashford was late for a meeting and this was told in public. He took it on the chin, rolled his sleeves up and let his football do the talking. Sancho is never going to win against the manager. It’s a massive chance for him now that Antony is not available. He should see the bigger picture and apologise and let his football do the talking.

 

[Speako]

But I've also thought for a long time, United can't have a period of sustained success with the Glazers still in charge because no matter who the manager is, the attitude of those at the very top trickles down and United's owners don't have excellence or winning as their number one priority.

Unfortunately, exactly right. The fly in the oitment that simply won't go away and cascades like sh1t through a sewer. Until this changes, the likes of ETH continue to face a losing battle.

 

[SteveCoppellFan]

Player power has been running rife at Old Trafford for years.

I am glad we have a manger like ETH now, for once we have a manager that will not accept this nonsense from anyone, the players will cotton on soon enough of they will be leaving and replaced by players that are not like this.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Yeah it’s something that will divide the fans.



I can’t really sympathise with a player who can’t be bothered turning up on time. That’s where I am with Sancho.



Quoting players like Pogba just makes me feel the manager was correct or they should have binned them off sooner haha. SAF and Pep are ruthless in that regard.

What's the point of the current situation? Who does it help? EtH hasn't had the best start this season, Sancho has been below average for long. Club is already in a quagmire with the Greenwood situation, why bring in unnecessary negativity now? It's a strange time to pick this issue now. Pogba could have been a lazy player but in the end he is the one who outlasted the manager. My point is that EtH caused an unnecessary situation when he could have handled things diplomatically. He also chose to do it during international break and has caused the issue to fester for long.

Why can't etH have simply dropped Sancho and started Pellistri or someone ahead and just say Pellestri trains very well and deserves to be ahead of Sancho. EtH could have killed two birds with stone, he could have motivated someone else and indicated diplomatically that Sancho doesn't train as well as a youth prospect.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Player power has been running rife at Old Trafford for years.

I am glad we have a manger like ETH now, for once we have a manager that will not accept this nonsense from anyone, the players will cotton on soon enough of they will be leaving and replaced by players that are not like this.

Its like a fecking groundhog day. Don't you remember something exactly like this happening under Mourinho? And do you remember what happened to Mourinho?

 

[Zed 101]

EtH hung Sancho out to dry in the public. There is nothing to chill, it's the truth. In this age of media, telling a player isn't selected because he didnt train well is akin to saying he is a fecking lazy bastard.

ETH was asked why Sancho was not in the squad, he said - on his performance on training, we didn't select him, you have to reach the level every day at Manchester United. You can make choices in the front line so in this game he wasn't selected.

That is not hanging out to dry by any stretch

 

[nickm]

Why make up a silly strawman argument? I never said we should baby Sancho. Just don't call him out publicly. Put him on the transfer list, say he doesn't suit our style, say he is only good on the left wing and Rashford is much better over there. There are plenty of diplomatic ways to phase out a player and then sell him. You don't have to call him shit or lazy in public.

I am sure none of this was designed by ETH to get rid of Sancho. It was the mildest, gentlest way of challenging a player to do better, who did not seem to be responsive to more supportive methods. "Hanging him out to dry", my arse.

Now we know how Sancho meets a challenge. Glad we know, we can't have players around like that.

 

[stevoc]

I don’t agree. I think this is a deliberate and calculated move by Ten Hag, and I genuinely believe he has had enough of Sancho.
Last season Jadon was cosseted, afforded extra time and support and was praised by ten Hag when he came back into the team and scored a couple of goals.
But it seems Jadon has reverted to type, and has thrown all that back in ten hags face. I think Erik was wanting to provoke a response from Sancho, and whilst it wasn’t necessarily the response he wanted/expected he at least now knows Sanchos position, and can double down on his decisions. Jadon has showed his true colours.

If it was then it wasn't the wisest move in the same week the club would have to suspend our other £80m winger.

For me, the situation is that we signed a player for 73 million that prefers not to train. And we are paying him 350k a week.

From a commercial perspective, the drama contributes to create interest around the club. Funny enough.

And all this public drama, shit slinging in the media, etc. will not increase Sancho's sale value (the opposite) and help us recoup that outlay if the plan is to move him on in January. Funnily enough.

 

[redIndianDevil]

ETH was asked why Sancho was not in the squad, he said - on his performance on training, we didn't select him, you have to reach the level every day at Manchester United. You can make choices in the front line so in this game he wasn't selected.

That is not hanging out to dry by any stretch

You dont have to be a genius to infer that EtH say Sancho doesn't train well. Thats what publicly calling out a player means. Sancho has reacted exactly the way you would have expected him to.

 

[Gordon Godot]

You dont have to be a genius to infer that EtH say Sancho doesn't train well. Thats what publicly calling out a player means. Sancho has reacted exactly the way you would have expected him to.

DOnt be ridiculous. Sancho has a long history of issues around lateness, behaviour and training. When did he last show any intensity on the pitch? Bad signing and time to get rid at first opportunity. If he card he would knuckle down and prove ETH wrong. He wont.

 

[redIndianDevil]

I am sure none of this was designed by ETH to get rid of Sancho. It was the mildest, gentlest way of challenging a player to do better, who did not seem to be responsive to more supportive methods. "Hanging him out to dry", my arse.

Now we know how Sancho meets a challenge. Glad we know, we can't have players around like that.

I don't know what world you all live in. But in the modern world when a manager publicly calls out an employee, its not to "challenge" that employee to do better. A manager has to give his appraisal one to one personally to the employee. if that doesn't work you bring in the HR who then deal with the employee. This is the civilized way to dealing with such issues. Neanderthals might disagree with this approach but this approach just works across all big organizations.

 

[stevoc]

So you exclude Martial who has started a game this season while Sancho hasn't among your six options. Currently we have Hojlund, Rashford, Martial, Garnacho, Pellistri even in the absence of Antony. And Amad will be back soon enough. We bought two midfielders and sold one and we also retained Hannibal and Mainoo is primed to have a significant role so we have a larger group in midfield. Meaning we can afford to shift someone like Mount out wide if necessary he'll probably be better than Sancho on the right, a role Sancho hardly plays in the first place.

Martial has barely put a string of performances together in years. When he's not injured he's mostly been ineffective. I didn't have much hope that would change which is why I don't really consider him an option, I reckon if Ten Hag was able to he'd have sold/released him and replaced him during the summer.

If your argument was for a Rashford or Bruno who you can't just use a body to replace then I'll see merit in it but it's Sancho. Just showing effort to track back and get involved is an upgrade. Like I said Sancho being unavailable will be insignificant to our results and league position.

That wasn't my point as I've explained twice already, I won't waste time explaining a third time mate.

 

[BluesJr]

I really thought we were passed the circus stage. Clearly not.

 

[Infra-red]

The athletic reporting Sancho has refused to apologise to ETH.
Stick a fork in him, he’s done.

If that is the case, it was the right call by the club to dump him out of first team training. EtH is his boss and Sancho is in no position to challenge his authority publicly as he has. Unless a grovelling apology is forthcoming, the player should be exited from the club asap.

 

[Micky Targaryen]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

On a related note, how’s Getafe’s current FFP situation?

 

[redIndianDevil]

DOnt be ridiculous. Sancho has a long history of issues around lateness, behaviour and training. When did he last show any intensity on the pitch? Bad signing and time to get rid at first opportunity. If he card he would knuckle down and prove ETH wrong. He wont.

How many times have we fined Sancho for being late? We are contractually obligated to fine him if he is late. About his intensity on the pitch, that's subjective.

The problem is after this fiasco in front of the press, we cannot get rid off him. Who would spend money on a lazy player? if he had kept this in house we might have had a few offers for him. Now we have to pay him off or he is going to sit on his arse in the bench and wind down his contract.

 

[The Purley King]

I don't know what world you all live in. But in the modern world when a manager publicly calls out an employee, its not to "challenge" that employee to do better. A manager has to give his appraisal one to one personally to the employee. if that doesn't work you bring in the HR who then deal with the employee. This is the civilized way to dealing with such issues. Neanderthals might disagree with this approach but this approach just works across all big organizations.

Pretty sure nobody is asking my boss in an interview that will be broadcasted around the world how I did last week.
“Eh, the Purley king was late twice plus he messed up the weekly reporting. Everyone has to meet high standards here so we didn’t invite him to the drinks on Friday night”
You cannot compare large corporations with football clubs in that regard.

 

[hobbers]

Our squad is depleted and our manager has chosen a very bad time to be strict

There’s no such thing as a bad time. Any decent manager should have a set of standards and principals and stick to them.

When SAF went after Stam, Keane, Beckham, Ruud etc it did not make the squad stronger but that did not matter because his authority was questioned.

 

[stevoc]

Could it though? Sancho was sent to Holland last year to train on his own and Ten Hag covered for him by saying he wasn't right physically or mentally, which apparently pissed Sancho off. For some reason he was just expecting to be able to leave the club and train on his own for months and no one say anything about it publically. The more time passes the more it looks like that was a punishment for his behaviour more and an attempt to sort him out than anything else.

Ten Hag didn't say anything other than Sancho wasn't training at the level expected. He didn't say he was lazy, he didn't say he was overweight, he didn't say he's constantly late to meetings and training. All he said was that he wasn't at the level expected, and Sancho took to social media to call his manager a liar and state that he was being made a scapegoat. This was a private matter until Sancho made it a very public one and invited a media shit storm.

The manager can't keep picking Sancho if he's not training right, what message does it send to the rest of the lads? He dropped Rashford for turning up late, why should Sancho get special treatment?

Yes of course, all he had to do was not say what he did and then the media wouldn't have been able to spin in into the drama they did.

Journailist: Why was Jadon not involved today?

Ten Hag: Jadon is injured/sick/lacking fitness-sharpness. He'll hopefully be ready after the International break.

Stock boring manager response, no drama would ensue.

Sancho was sent to Holland last year to train on his own and Ten Hag covered for him by saying he wasn't right physically or mentally, which apparently pissed Sancho off.

He probably should have just said he was injured back then as well. Don't know about you but not sure I would appreciate my boss making public announcements on my mental health either.

 

[VanGaalyTime]

I don't know what world you all live in. But in the modern world when a manager publicly calls out an employee, its not to "challenge" that employee to do better. A manager has to give his appraisal one to one personally to the employee. if that doesn't work you bring in the HR who then deal with the employee. This is the civilized way to dealing with such issues. Neanderthals might disagree with this approach but this approach just works across all big organizations.

This isn't the work experience kid bringing the wrong coffee. This a 350 grand a week player not training. Also, he was given 3 months off on full play last year. ETH has treated him exceptionally kindly. All Sancho has to do is apologize and it's done. If Rashford and Ronaldo can apologize surely a lesser player like Sancho can.

 

[RuudTom83]

What's the point of the current situation? Who does it help? EtH hasn't had the best start this season, Sancho has been below average for long. Club is already in a quagmire with the Greenwood situation, why bring in unnecessary negativity now? It's a strange time to pick this issue now. Pogba could have been a lazy player but in the end he is the one who outlasted the manager. My point is that EtH caused an unnecessary situation when he could have handled things diplomatically. He also chose to do it during international break and has caused the issue to fester for long.

Why can't etH have simply dropped Sancho and started Pellistri or someone ahead and just say Pellestri trains very well and deserves to be ahead of Sancho. EtH could have killed two birds with stone, he could have motivated someone else and indicated diplomatically that Sancho doesn't train as well as a youth prospect.

Yeah I get your point I just disagree...this issue will split the fans no doubt.

 

[hobbers]

We’ll end up loaning Sancho out and paying half his wages for the next 2 years at least

 

[saik]

I don't know what world you all live in. But in the modern world when a manager publicly calls out an employee, its not to "challenge" that employee to do better. A manager has to give his appraisal one to one personally to the employee. if that doesn't work you bring in the HR who then deal with the employee. This is the civilized way to dealing with such issues. Neanderthals might disagree with this approach but this approach just works across all big organizations.

And there's also another approach where better performers than you are recognized and rewarded appropriately, which is what Ten Hag has done. He said he had other options who trained better and so they made the squad while Sancho didn't. It's on Sancho to prove the manager wrong here.

You either take it like Rashford or Garnacho and try to work hard or you react like Sancho and destroy your whole career.

 

[flameinthesun]

This hung Sancho out to try dry narrative is really weird....

One of Sancho's issues is that he hasn't been treated equally as other members of the club...yet Ten Hags's response to the question was no different to when he was asked about Garnacho or Rashford. So even in that aspect he was treated equally.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Pretty sure nobody is asking my boss in an interview that will be broadcasted around the world how I did last week.
“Eh, the Purley king was late twice plus he messed up the weekly reporting. Everyone has to meet high standards here so we didn’t invite him to the drinks on Friday night”
You cannot compare large corporations with football clubs in that regard.

Why not? The same fecking things happens in the corporate world and in all work places but in a different scale. All EtH had to do say others trained well and deserve to be ahead of Sancho. Ask Murtough to sell Sancho. That's it. The story is over. Look at this shit now.

 

[Trex]

Martial had a bigger impact even last season compared to Sancho. So if you write off Martial you should do same with Sancho.

 

[stevoc]

The whole situation couldn’t have been avoided by keeping it in-house. The situation was he didn’t make the squad despite being fit due to his levels of performance and attitude in training being under par. Why is everyone making out like this public spat has resulted in sancho now not playing when he was already not playing? He wouldn’t have been in the squad this week either unless his attitude and levels improved. We’ve seen from his response that was very unlikely to happen - he thinks his levels and attitude are great. This public noise is irrelevant - the underlying issue is his attitude and that isn’t changing whether ETH lied about him being injured or whatever it is you want him to make up.

Of course it could, just say he's injured or sick. If his attitude is still shit then sell him in January, all this shit will do nothing for his resale value.

What's the problem with keeping it in house and saying he's sick/injured, hundreds of managers have done that with thousands of players. Why are we all of a sudden pretending like it's normal for every behind the scenes player issue/problem to be announced in the media.

 

[Rossa]

Rashford was late for a meeting and this was told in public. He took it on the chin, rolled his sleeves up and let his football do the talking. Sancho is never going to win against the manager. It’s a massive chance for him now that Antony is not available. He should see the bigger picture and apologise and let his football do the talking.

Obviously this. If he felt he was publically challenged, then, as you said, he should have rolled up his sleeves and proven the manager wrong. He should have posted videos and pictures on his instagram that he is working out, doing exercises with his PT, but instead he goes off to party in New-York with all that entails. How on earth does he not see this? He may disagree with what ETH said, and we may disagree with it, but instead of training hard and focusing on what he can do to solve the issue, he goes off and proves ETH right.

 

[TrueRed79]

I really thought we were passed the circus stage. Clearly not.

Takes a while to weed out all the bad eggs i'm afraid. And boy did/do we have a lot of them.

 

[redIndianDevil]

And there's also another approach where better performers than you are recognized and rewarded appropriately, which is what Ten Hag has done. He said he had other options who trained better and so they made the squad while Sancho didn't. It's on Sancho to prove the manager wrong here.

You either take it like Rashford or Garnacho and try to work hard or you react like Sancho and destroy your whole career.

Why talk about Sancho not training to our "standard" at all? What the feck was that supposed to achieve?

 

[Jam]

I think that’s it he’s done.

Shame it’s worked out the way it has; Sancho only has himself to blame. All the talent in the world but hasn’t got the application.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Obviously this. If he felt he was publically challenged, then, as you said, he should have rolled up his sleeves and proven the manager wrong. He should have posted videos and pictures on his instagram that he is working out, doing exercises with his PT, but instead he goes off to party in New-York with all that entails. How on earth does he not see this? He may disagree with what ETH said, and we may disagree with it, but instead of training hard and focusing on what he can do to solve the issue, he goes off and proves ETH right.

another neanderthal level thinking. Stop caring about what players do in their off time. I'm pretty sure we all could improve ourselves in our respective jobs if we spent some of our vacation time working. But people deserve their off time.

 

[Oranges038]

Why talk about Sancho not training to our "standard" at all? What the feck was that supposed to achieve?

Do you honestly think he hasn't spoken directly to him about what he expects?

 

[Rightnr]

ETH was asked why Sancho was not in the squad, he said - on his performance on training, we didn't select him, you have to reach the level every day at Manchester United. You can make choices in the front line so in this game he wasn't selected.

That is not hanging out to dry by any stretch

Drama queens everywhere. On one side, we have the lazy talent of Sancho, on the other the delusion of the subpar Maguire with his family running their mouth in the press.

In both cases, I support EtH and I hope he catapults them out of the club in zero time.

 

[norm87cro]

Mourinho was toxic though. He would have issues with players, officials, opposition managers etc, he had a long history of this. ETH comes across as calm and diplomatic when people like this openly criticize you then there's usually a good reason.

Well Ip

There’s no such thing as a bad time. Any decent manager should have a set of standards and principals and stick to them.

When SAF went after Stam, Keane, Beckham, Ruud etc it did not make the squad stronger but that did not matter because his authority was questioned.

SAF won a bunch of trophies when he did that please dont compare them

 

[stevoc]

Martial had a bigger impact even last season compared to Sancho. So if you write off Martial you should do same with Sancho.

Debatable.

Martial's been here best part of a decade and is 28 in a few months. What you see with Martial is all we'll ever get.

With Sancho he's young and there was hope there that he would fulfill the promise he showed at Dortmund.

 

[Rightnr]

another neanderthal level thinking. Stop caring about what players do in their off time. I'm pretty sure we all could improve ourselves in our respective jobs if we spent some of our vacation time working. But people deserve their off time.

Time off from what? Being rubbish at his job?

You are another one of these apologists that clearly do not live in the real world or you think professional football is the same as working in a supermarket.

This is spoiled brat behaviour from the player and you supporting it tells me you share this thinking.