VAR and Refs | General Discussion | May 15: Premier League clubs to vote on proposal to scrap VAR from next season

[Garnacho's Shoelaces]

Well, first off, this clearly is a subjective decision. So for VAR to overturn it, they have to be sure an error has made. There simply is not the proof.

Offsides are reviewed in exactly the same way. If it was so close as to be inconclusive, the goal would be given.

Regardless of the clear and obvious terminology, this descion shouldn't have been overturned.

Second, yellow cards aren't even reviewed by VAR.

No, it's an objective decision as it is binary. The ball is either in or out. You are either onside or offside. The ball strikes your hand or it doesn't.

The 'clear and obvious error' test applies to decisions which are subjective and require judgment.

VAR believe the ball went out of play which gives them the intervention right. The error here is the absence of reliable evidence to arrive at that decision.

 

[Garnacho's Shoelaces]

Rashford taken out after his shot there.

 

[MackRobinson]

VAR feed is provided to broadcasters. We've seen the angle they looked at, an inaccurate one. The same as the Garnacho onside winner against Arsenal.

VAR uses Hawkeye technology to make these decisions. They don't choose a random camera angle. This is a silly discussion.

 

[awop]

You literally cannot be 100% sure it's out... It's impossible to tell

Seems like nothing was learned from the Japan WC incident

They can't remember what decision they took the previous week, they have no idea about that little Japan incident in the WC.

 

[AnotherLondonManc]

No, it's an objective decision as it is binary. The ball is either in or out. You are either onside or offside. The ball strikes your hand or it doesn't.

The 'clear and obvious error' test applies to decisions which are subjective and require judgment.

VAR believe the ball went out of play which gives them the intervention right. The error here is the absence of reliable evidence to arrive at that decision.

The camera angles available to us make this a subjective call. There's no two ways about it. I already addressed the clear and obvious terminology. Doesn't matter if it applies to this, there is not enough evidence to overturn the decision, and say objectively that the ball was out of play.

VAR uses Hawkeye technology to make these decisions. They don't choose a random camera angle. This is a silly discussion.

Hawkeye is only used for goal line decisions

 

[WeePat]

I realise there's extreme bias at play but even still, if anyone is seriously complaining that this was deemed to be out of play then there's something actively wrong with you.

If that goal was allowed against us, we'd be screaming conspiracy. You can't complain about every decision.

If it looks that close from that angle, I’d bet a lot of money it would look comfortably in from the angle directly above the ball.

 

[ManUnitedCanuck]

Were the offside lines drawn when Hojlund was taken out on his way on goal?

Seemed tight on the replay..they said in the commentary he was clearly off but didn’t look that clear. Could have been red, so just curious if they actually reviewed the possible offside?

 

[Ted Lasso]

Clearly based on what? Flawed logic

Based on you all looking at a frame earlier than the ball hits Marcus' foot, by which point it is undeniably out of bounds.

Some random picks a screenshot and tweets it and thousands of you blindly start getting worked up.

 

[Rightnr]

Based on you all looking at a frame earlier than the ball hits Marcus' foot, by which point it is undeniably out of bounds.

Some random picks a screenshot and tweets it and thousands of you blindly start getting worked up.

There's nothing undeniable about not having the right camera or tech. If evidence is inconclusive, goal has to stand.

I thought the Garnacho goal against the Arse was off but on replay, it's clear the lines are dodgy and he's off by a fingernail.

VAR officials are incompetent clowns.

 

[Ted Lasso]

There's nothing undeniable about not having the right camera or tech. If evidence is inconclusive, goal has to stand.

I thought the Garnacho goal against the Arse was off but on replay, it's clear the likes are dodgy and he's off by a fingernail.

VAR official are incompetent clowns.

I like keeping decisions that aren't clear and obvious errors. It's the consistency around it all that hurts the most.

 

[Dave Smith]

It is close but I think that went out. The Villa penalty against Palace was a worse decision.

 

[Jeppers7]

This is becoming more and more ridiculous, Im sorry but if you’re going to allow this against us then we are entitled to have this given for us.

 

[Meller]

Not the PL but that decision against Bayern is just... Can VAR just feck off?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

If it looks that close from that angle, I’d bet a lot of money it would look comfortably in from the angle directly above the ball.

Precisely. Mental how few people get this.

 

[Danger5]

VAR uses Hawkeye technology to make these decisions. They don't choose a random camera angle. This is a silly discussion.

Precisely. Some of you have gone off the deep end in recent weeks.

 

[Pexbo]

VAR uses Hawkeye technology to make these decisions. They don't choose a random camera angle. This is a silly discussion.

Precisely. Some of you have gone off the deep end in recent weeks.

Actually Hawkeye is only configured to work within the goal.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

VAR uses Hawkeye technology to make these decisions. They don't choose a random camera angle. This is a silly discussion.

No it doesn’t. Only for the ball crossing the goal line. Not in any other scenario.

 

[One Night Only]

Precisely. Some of you have gone off the deep end in recent weeks.

Yeah you 2, spitting out stuff like they're facts when it's not.

 

[Rightnr]

No it doesn’t. Only for the ball crossing the goal line. Not in any other scenario.

I think at the world cup they were using it for the whole line.

But also, I distinctly remember a Newcastle game towards the end of last season where the ball was called out/in like this and I may be wrong but computer animation was shown.

Given that Hawkeye looks up a line, it's crazy this is not extended to the full width of the pitch, instead of just the goal line and we have to rely on these idiot referees to make inaccurate decisions yet again.

 

[eire-red]

There is no way to conclusively prove that the ball went out of play. Goal line technology always uses that angle from directly above the ball due to the spherical shape of the ball.

Many decisions look over the line but when you take into account the wider part of the ball that's not touching the pitch then often the ball is still in, even when it looks out because, obviously the bottom part of the ball touching the grass can be over the line.

Not saying that is the case here, but the call is so close it could easily be the case and they fact that the goal was ruled out based solely off an "eye test" from the best available angle is ridiculous.

From a biased point of view, when these decisions go against you it feels horrible and you question why you even bother putting all that time and energy into supporting your club. VAR was supposedly supposed to remove that frustration, not compound it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think at the world cup they were using it for the whole line.

But also, I distinctly remember a Newcastle game towards the end of last season where the ball was called out/in like this and I may be wrong but computer animation was shown.

Given that Hawkeye looks up a line, it's crazy this is not extended to the full width of the pitch, instead of just the goal line and we have to rely on these idiot referees to make inaccurate decisions yet again.

Yes. Of course they could also use Hawkeye for throw-ins too.

Or, here’s a crazy idea, stick with what’s worked for 100s of years and trust the onfield officials? They won’t always get it right but it’s infinitely preferable to the sense of injustice when we tolerate all the bollox that comes with technology and still get fecked over.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

There is no way to conclusively prove that the ball went out of play. Goal line technology always uses that angle from directly above the ball due to the spherical shape of the ball.

Many decisions look over the line but when you take into account the wider part of the ball that's not touching the pitch then often the ball is still in, even when it looks out because, obviously the bottom part of the ball touching the grass can be over the line.

Not saying that is the case here, but the call is so close it could easily be the case and they fact that the goal was ruled out based solely off an "eye test" from the best available angle is ridiculous.

From a biased point of view, when these decisions go against you it feels horrible and you question why you even bother putting all that time and energy into supporting your club. VAR was supposedly supposed to remove that frustration, not compound it.

Exactly.

Although it was always going to be like this. Because we all know that camera replays never give the one “true” answer. Otherwise why have we never ever had consensus on here about tight/controversial decisions despite umpteen replays and several days to discuss them?

 

[Mb194dc]

There is no way to conclusively prove that the ball went out of play. Goal line technology always uses that angle from directly above the ball due to the spherical shape of the ball.

Many decisions look over the line but when you take into account the wider part of the ball that's not touching the pitch then often the ball is still in, even when it looks out because, obviously the bottom part of the ball touching the grass can be over the line.

Not saying that is the case here, but the call is so close it could easily be the case and they fact that the goal was ruled out based solely off an "eye test" from the best available angle is ridiculous.

From a biased point of view, when these decisions go against you it feels horrible and you question why you even bother putting all that time and energy into supporting your club. VAR was supposedly supposed to remove that frustration, not compound it.

Agree, it should be possible to render the frame surely and then look from above to see if it's out or not.

VAR shouldn't do it from the side as it's not accurate.

 

[Cassidy]

3 games in a row, dodgy decisions against United

 

[One Night Only]

3 games in a row, dodgy decisions against United

Atleast 2 at fairly crucial times too.

 

[El Zoido]

I’m starting to hate VAR. It’s not so much the decisons going against us, but you basically can’t celebrate a goal anymore. I no longer cheer when we score, I wait for the inevitable VAR check. It’s killing the enjoyment of it all.

 

[RedDevil@84]

So the technology to look from the top is not available in PL?

 

[Anustart89]

Yeah, that ruled out goal is absolute bollocks.

If the on-field call is that the goal stands, then there needs to be unequivocal evidence that the ball left the field of play to overturn the on-field decision. Even from the angle they chose to look at (after quickly discarding the angle that made it look like the ball was in) you can see the white line being disturbed or bulge inwards just where the ball is. Given that the ball is a sphere and the available angles (unless they had some hidden angles that we didn't get to see) there's no way to tell 100% that the ball was over the line, so to intervene there is wrong. When evidence isn't 100% then surely the correct application of the VAR protocol is to let the on-field decision stand.

 

[Fr. Todd Unctious]

3 games in a row, dodgy decisions against United

Which can all be traced back to the cnuts in the media having a meltdown over the Wolves game. The Refs and VAR are nearly going out of their way to eithrr take stuff off us through VAR or not gives us stuff

 

[Anustart89]

Which can all be traced back to the cnuts in the media having a meltdown over the Wolves game. The Refs and VAR are nearly going out of their way to eithrr take stuff off us through VAR or not gives us stuff

It's just so easy to not give us anything.

Any match report I'm reading just says "VAR correctly ruled the goal out", with nobody even mentioning that the angle doesn't allow for a correct assessment with a decision that tight.

You can bet your arse that if Brighton had had a goal disallowed like that against us they'd bring out the forensic analysts like they did for Japan's goal against Spain during the World Cup. Webb would be out there in an attempt to appease the media saying "it's not possible to assess 100% that the ball left the pitch so we have apologised to de Zerbi and the Brighton players for a wrongful VAR intervention".

 

[Oranges038]

Mike Dean reckons it was the right call.

 

[Devil77]

I’m starting to hate VAR. It’s not so much the decisons going against us, but you basically can’t celebrate a goal anymore. I no longer cheer when we score, I wait for the inevitable VAR check. It’s killing the enjoyment of it all.

Exactly this. It’s ruining the game as a viewer and still doesn’t get it right. FIFA is killing football, slowly but steady.

 

[Møllemanden]

Brighton would have won comfortably even if that goal was given. As a Dane, I would have loved it if Højlund had scored on his home debut. Despite the questionable angles, I think the ball went out of play before the goal. Right decision by VAR.

 

[Cassidy]

Brighton would have won comfortably even if that goal was given. As a Dane, I would have loved it if Højlund had scored on his home debut. Despite the questionable angles, I think the ball went out of play before the goal. Right decision by VAR.

They wouldn’t have. Also its not the right decision if you think it went out, its only the right decision if you know for a fact

 

[Møllemanden]

They wouldn’t have. Also its not the right decision if you think it went out, its only the right decision if you know for a fact

Okay. I told my mate the second Højlund scored, that it would be disallowed. I knew it for a fact. VAR agreed with me.

 

[RuudTom83]

In those tight decision it would be nice to see a verdict of 'unknown' given and the advantage given to the attacking side.

Ruling goals off by pixels is not making the games better in any way.

 

[Cassidy]

Okay. I told my mate the second Højlund scored, that it would be disallowed. I knew it for a fact. VAR agreed with me.

You don’t, no matter how many times you tell yourself

 

[Cpt Negative]

Anyone got any replays of the tackle on Rashford that he thought was a penalty. He wasn’t happy about it but I’ve seen nothing shown of it

 

[Fridge chutney]

This is becoming more and more ridiculous, Im sorry but if you’re going to allow this against us then we are entitled to have this given for us.

When was that? That was given?

 

[Møllemanden]

You don’t, no matter how many times you tell yourself

Okay. Let's say I didn't know for a fact.. At the time I thought the ball was out. When I saw the replay I still thought it was out. VAR agreed with me. What is the ref supposed to do? Hate it or love it, based on the info we got, I think VAR was right this time.

This time you cannot question the VAR decision based on the info at hand. Not every trial has the right outcome. But most of em do.