But the debate isn´t if Bruno is a better or a worse player than his team mates. It is about his specific style, his tendencies, his skill set. I asked the question early to the other poster, lets just shorten the discussion here by stating your point: you think that Bruno is fine and all we should do is back him with defensive cover and with attackers who can bury all the chances he creates. Do you think, once this is done, we will rival the Reals, Bayerns and City teams in the world?
8
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 48
- Goals
- 15
- Assists
- 13
- Yellow cards
- 12
- Status
I’m so sorry I had you down as being all about the big games. Such a genuine guy, my bad. Obviously you’ve always felt that big games are not the measure of a player, just like giving the ball away isnt, just like sloppy passes aren’t, just like getting tackled leading to a goal isn’t, just like stats aren’t, and that playing the most minutes is a net negative not positive or taking pens to increase stats.
I was clearly wrong about you. I agree by the way. Generally it’s harder to perform in big games. Especially when the team is struggling. Defenders aside there’s probably only Rashford and Pogba played well when we’ve struggled against City in the period since SAF on a regular basis for example. When the team has played well we’ve often won though but when we’ve lost only those two have played well.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-2018-19-performances.440059/post-23990792
Not sure what you mean about each and every game but it would be nice to see him carry the team maybe just once?
Honestly - apart from walkovers against cannon fodder - when have you ever looked back on a game and thought, thank feck for Pogba, we wouldn't have won that without him? Thinking of crunch matches like last night. Big games against top opposition.
I can only think of two occasions and in both those games his flaws were just as apparent as his strengths. When we beat Arsenal 3-1 at their place in the league. It was a great run from him to set up the Lingard goal that settled the game for us. But he was also (at least partly) responsible for Arsenal having insane amounts of possession and relentlessly peppering our goal (De Gea's famous double save from Lacazette/Sanchez) and ended up getting a red card. The other was the comeback win against City. Although, again, this was a game where our dysfunctional midfield handed the opposition almost complete control for the vast majority of the game. Pogba's first half performance in that match was a disgrace.
Are there any other MOTM performances against top teams I've forgotten? Genuinely curious. He's supposedly best/most expensive player and he's played 87 games for us. Surely I'm forgetting some obvious ones here?
Because if we go to the opposite extreme - big matches against top teams where he was either ineffectual or actively bad - well then it's an awful lot easier to start coming up with examples...
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-2018-19-performances.440059/post-23991027
The one really big "fact" I want to see in defence is someone reminding me that I've misremembered his frankly pitiful return of two objectively MOTM displays in big games since he signed for the club. I'm honestly curious here!
The funny thing is, I am a Pogba fan. I watched his first game with us for the U18s live and was immediately blown away by what I saw. I was gutted when he left and thrilled when we signed him back up again. Then his debut against Southampton went as well as I dared hope. Since then, though, it's been varying degrees of disappointment. Sometimes I think he might finally be the player I'd hoped he'd become, then it all goes pear shaped again. It's just not good enough for a player who is supposedly up there with the very best of his generation.
I'm old enough to have watched many Manchester United players who fulfil that description and, believer me, they were miles more influential and consistent than Pogba. Which probably explains that the people most likely to be critical of his United career are fan of a similar age. If you've never enjoyed watching Keane or Robson dominate midfield, week after week, then maybe expectations are low enough to find what Pogba produces acceptable. Who knows? I bumped this thread today to point out players at other clubs who - in the here and now - are producing the big match performances we should be getting from Pogba on a much more regular basis but I guess that reference isn't working. Oh well.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/should-we-consider-selling-pogba.456912/post-26331290
Haven’t seen them overall but saw some stats for results with/without him against “big teams” (i.e. City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs) and there was a massive negative difference in results for all the games he started
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-2020-21-performances.457012/post-26262489
He’s basing it on the traditional five biggest clubs we play against in the league. Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, City, Liverpool. Which works for me. They’re always the gold standard for “big games” in any given campaign.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-2018-19-performances.440059/post-23990810
Question aimed at everyone, not just the person I quoted.
Big games, against top opposition, where Pogba stood up to be counted. Proper game changing performances. The sort of thing you'd expect from the best player at a top football club.
Anyone?
Anyone?
Bueller?
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-2018-19-performances.440059/post-23335549
That doesn't help explain some of the absolutely woeful performances he's put in during big games. Liverpool last season being a good example
But yeah (when you like/are in love with a player fanboy) then it obviously is the dumbest stick
That is hilarious and it really exposes his bias. This made it much more clear to me why he behaves and posts the way he does. Quite embarrassing.
This thread is wild
Wow the bias is so evident here
I’m so sorry I had you down as being all about the big games. Such a genuine guy, my bad. Obviously you’ve always felt that big games are not the measure of a player, just like giving the ball away isnt, just like sloppy passes aren’t, just like getting tackled leading to a goal isn’t, just like stats aren’t, and that playing the most minutes is a net negative not positive or taking pens to increase stats.
I was clearly wrong about you. I agree by the way. Generally it’s harder to perform in big games. Especially when the team is struggling. Defenders aside there’s probably only Rashford and Pogba played well when we’ve struggled against City in the period since SAF on a regular basis for example. When the team has played well we’ve often won though but when we’ve lost only those two have played well.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-2018-19-performances.440059/post-23990792
Not sure what you mean about each and every game but it would be nice to see him carry the team maybe just once?
Honestly - apart from walkovers against cannon fodder - when have you ever looked back on a game and thought, thank feck for Pogba, we wouldn't have won that without him? Thinking of crunch matches like last night. Big games against top opposition.
I can only think of two occasions and in both those games his flaws were just as apparent as his strengths. When we beat Arsenal 3-1 at their place in the league. It was a great run from him to set up the Lingard goal that settled the game for us. But he was also (at least partly) responsible for Arsenal having insane amounts of possession and relentlessly peppering our goal (De Gea's famous double save from Lacazette/Sanchez) and ended up getting a red card. The other was the comeback win against City. Although, again, this was a game where our dysfunctional midfield handed the opposition almost complete control for the vast majority of the game. Pogba's first half performance in that match was a disgrace.
Are there any other MOTM performances against top teams I've forgotten? Genuinely curious. He's supposedly best/most expensive player and he's played 87 games for us. Surely I'm forgetting some obvious ones here?
Because if we go to the opposite extreme - big matches against top teams where he was either ineffectual or actively bad - well then it's an awful lot easier to start coming up with examples...
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-2018-19-performances.440059/post-23991027
The one really big "fact" I want to see in defence is someone reminding me that I've misremembered his frankly pitiful return of two objectively MOTM displays in big games since he signed for the club. I'm honestly curious here!
The funny thing is, I am a Pogba fan. I watched his first game with us for the U18s live and was immediately blown away by what I saw. I was gutted when he left and thrilled when we signed him back up again. Then his debut against Southampton went as well as I dared hope. Since then, though, it's been varying degrees of disappointment. Sometimes I think he might finally be the player I'd hoped he'd become, then it all goes pear shaped again. It's just not good enough for a player who is supposedly up there with the very best of his generation.
I'm old enough to have watched many Manchester United players who fulfil that description and, believer me, they were miles more influential and consistent than Pogba. Which probably explains that the people most likely to be critical of his United career are fan of a similar age. If you've never enjoyed watching Keane or Robson dominate midfield, week after week, then maybe expectations are low enough to find what Pogba produces acceptable. Who knows? I bumped this thread today to point out players at other clubs who - in the here and now - are producing the big match performances we should be getting from Pogba on a much more regular basis but I guess that reference isn't working. Oh well.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/should-we-consider-selling-pogba.456912/post-26331290
Haven’t seen them overall but saw some stats for results with/without him against “big teams” (i.e. City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs) and there was a massive negative difference in results for all the games he started
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-2020-21-performances.457012/post-26262489
He’s basing it on the traditional five biggest clubs we play against in the league. Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, City, Liverpool. Which works for me. They’re always the gold standard for “big games” in any given campaign.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-2018-19-performances.440059/post-23990810
Question aimed at everyone, not just the person I quoted.
Big games, against top opposition, where Pogba stood up to be counted. Proper game changing performances. The sort of thing you'd expect from the best player at a top football club.
Anyone?
Anyone?
Bueller?
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-2018-19-performances.440059/post-23335549
That doesn't help explain some of the absolutely woeful performances he's put in during big games. Liverpool last season being a good example
But yeah (when you like/are in love with a player fanboy) then it obviously is the dumbest stick
Yeah just like ball playing CBs and GKs were "pretentious bullshit football buzz words" a few years ago but now a staple for any successful team.
This is the problem with this club. Always late to the party. By the time we realize we need players with these "buzzword" skills, other top clubs would already be working on something new and better.
Game, set, match.
I’m so sorry I had you down as being all about the big games. Such a genuine guy, my bad. Obviously you’ve always felt that big games are not the measure of a player, just like giving the ball away isnt, just like sloppy passes aren’t, just like getting tackled leading to a goal isn’t, just like stats aren’t, and that playing the most minutes is a net negative not positive or taking pens to increase stats.
I was clearly wrong about you. I agree by the way. Generally it’s harder to perform in big games. Especially when the team is struggling. Defenders aside there’s probably only Rashford and Pogba played well when we’ve struggled against City in the period since SAF on a regular basis for example. When the team has played well we’ve often won though but when we’ve lost only those two have played well.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-2018-19-performances.440059/post-23990792
Not sure what you mean about each and every game but it would be nice to see him carry the team maybe just once?
Honestly - apart from walkovers against cannon fodder - when have you ever looked back on a game and thought, thank feck for Pogba, we wouldn't have won that without him? Thinking of crunch matches like last night. Big games against top opposition.
I can only think of two occasions and in both those games his flaws were just as apparent as his strengths. When we beat Arsenal 3-1 at their place in the league. It was a great run from him to set up the Lingard goal that settled the game for us. But he was also (at least partly) responsible for Arsenal having insane amounts of possession and relentlessly peppering our goal (De Gea's famous double save from Lacazette/Sanchez) and ended up getting a red card. The other was the comeback win against City. Although, again, this was a game where our dysfunctional midfield handed the opposition almost complete control for the vast majority of the game. Pogba's first half performance in that match was a disgrace.
Are there any other MOTM performances against top teams I've forgotten? Genuinely curious. He's supposedly best/most expensive player and he's played 87 games for us. Surely I'm forgetting some obvious ones here?
Because if we go to the opposite extreme - big matches against top teams where he was either ineffectual or actively bad - well then it's an awful lot easier to start coming up with examples...
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-2018-19-performances.440059/post-23991027
The one really big "fact" I want to see in defence is someone reminding me that I've misremembered his frankly pitiful return of two objectively MOTM displays in big games since he signed for the club. I'm honestly curious here!
The funny thing is, I am a Pogba fan. I watched his first game with us for the U18s live and was immediately blown away by what I saw. I was gutted when he left and thrilled when we signed him back up again. Then his debut against Southampton went as well as I dared hope. Since then, though, it's been varying degrees of disappointment. Sometimes I think he might finally be the player I'd hoped he'd become, then it all goes pear shaped again. It's just not good enough for a player who is supposedly up there with the very best of his generation.
I'm old enough to have watched many Manchester United players who fulfil that description and, believer me, they were miles more influential and consistent than Pogba. Which probably explains that the people most likely to be critical of his United career are fan of a similar age. If you've never enjoyed watching Keane or Robson dominate midfield, week after week, then maybe expectations are low enough to find what Pogba produces acceptable. Who knows? I bumped this thread today to point out players at other clubs who - in the here and now - are producing the big match performances we should be getting from Pogba on a much more regular basis but I guess that reference isn't working. Oh well.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/should-we-consider-selling-pogba.456912/post-26331290
Haven’t seen them overall but saw some stats for results with/without him against “big teams” (i.e. City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs) and there was a massive negative difference in results for all the games he started
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-2020-21-performances.457012/post-26262489
He’s basing it on the traditional five biggest clubs we play against in the league. Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, City, Liverpool. Which works for me. They’re always the gold standard for “big games” in any given campaign.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-2018-19-performances.440059/post-23990810
Question aimed at everyone, not just the person I quoted.
Big games, against top opposition, where Pogba stood up to be counted. Proper game changing performances. The sort of thing you'd expect from the best player at a top football club.
Anyone?
Anyone?
Bueller?
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-2018-19-performances.440059/post-23335549
That doesn't help explain some of the absolutely woeful performances he's put in during big games. Liverpool last season being a good example
But yeah (when you like/are in love with a player fanboy) then it obviously is the dumbest stick
He is shit get rid!!
Thank you. "Press resistant" isn't some new buzzword. A lot of us United fans were complaining about our lack of press resistance after being humbled by Barcelona in 2011 final especially.
After that, and still under Fergie, we were complaining about that after being humbled by Bilbao in the Europa. Not to mention how we were falling behind City when they were signing press resistant players in Silva, Toure, Nasri, Aguero.
I don't understand how some think this is a new thing. We've been in dire need of addressing this issue for over a DECADE.
It depends how good those defensive types and goalscorers are. If they're all top level and you also have Bruno in there yeah I think you can win major titles. But if Bruno isn't here you still need strong defensive cover and goalscorers though. That's not a Bruno thing.
This is actually an exact copy of the Ronaldo debate last season. Ronaldo was held responsible for our style. He was held responsible for the poor form of others. Ironically he was blamed for Bruno's form. Remember that?
Ronaldo leaves and what do you know none of these issues suddenly dissapear. As do the posters who argued all problems began with Ronaldo.
So hear we are again, singling out one player as the primary cause of all problems.
I’m so sorry I had you down as being all about the big games. Such a genuine guy, my bad. Obviously you’ve always felt that big games are not the measure of a player, just like giving the ball away isnt, just like sloppy passes aren’t, just like getting tackled leading to a goal isn’t, just like stats aren’t, and that playing the most minutes is a net negative not positive or taking pens to increase stats.
I was clearly wrong about you. I agree by the way. Generally it’s harder to perform in big games. Especially when the team is struggling. Defenders aside there’s probably only Rashford and Pogba played well when we’ve struggled against City in the period since SAF on a regular basis for example. When the team has played well we’ve often won though but when we’ve lost only those two have played well.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-2018-19-performances.440059/post-23990792
Not sure what you mean about each and every game but it would be nice to see him carry the team maybe just once?
Honestly - apart from walkovers against cannon fodder - when have you ever looked back on a game and thought, thank feck for Pogba, we wouldn't have won that without him? Thinking of crunch matches like last night. Big games against top opposition.
I can only think of two occasions and in both those games his flaws were just as apparent as his strengths. When we beat Arsenal 3-1 at their place in the league. It was a great run from him to set up the Lingard goal that settled the game for us. But he was also (at least partly) responsible for Arsenal having insane amounts of possession and relentlessly peppering our goal (De Gea's famous double save from Lacazette/Sanchez) and ended up getting a red card. The other was the comeback win against City. Although, again, this was a game where our dysfunctional midfield handed the opposition almost complete control for the vast majority of the game. Pogba's first half performance in that match was a disgrace.
Are there any other MOTM performances against top teams I've forgotten? Genuinely curious. He's supposedly best/most expensive player and he's played 87 games for us. Surely I'm forgetting some obvious ones here?
Because if we go to the opposite extreme - big matches against top teams where he was either ineffectual or actively bad - well then it's an awful lot easier to start coming up with examples...
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-2018-19-performances.440059/post-23991027
The one really big "fact" I want to see in defence is someone reminding me that I've misremembered his frankly pitiful return of two objectively MOTM displays in big games since he signed for the club. I'm honestly curious here!
The funny thing is, I am a Pogba fan. I watched his first game with us for the U18s live and was immediately blown away by what I saw. I was gutted when he left and thrilled when we signed him back up again. Then his debut against Southampton went as well as I dared hope. Since then, though, it's been varying degrees of disappointment. Sometimes I think he might finally be the player I'd hoped he'd become, then it all goes pear shaped again. It's just not good enough for a player who is supposedly up there with the very best of his generation.
I'm old enough to have watched many Manchester United players who fulfil that description and, believer me, they were miles more influential and consistent than Pogba. Which probably explains that the people most likely to be critical of his United career are fan of a similar age. If you've never enjoyed watching Keane or Robson dominate midfield, week after week, then maybe expectations are low enough to find what Pogba produces acceptable. Who knows? I bumped this thread today to point out players at other clubs who - in the here and now - are producing the big match performances we should be getting from Pogba on a much more regular basis but I guess that reference isn't working. Oh well.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/should-we-consider-selling-pogba.456912/post-26331290
Haven’t seen them overall but saw some stats for results with/without him against “big teams” (i.e. City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs) and there was a massive negative difference in results for all the games he started
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-2020-21-performances.457012/post-26262489
He’s basing it on the traditional five biggest clubs we play against in the league. Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, City, Liverpool. Which works for me. They’re always the gold standard for “big games” in any given campaign.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-2018-19-performances.440059/post-23990810
Question aimed at everyone, not just the person I quoted.
Big games, against top opposition, where Pogba stood up to be counted. Proper game changing performances. The sort of thing you'd expect from the best player at a top football club.
Anyone?
Anyone?
Bueller?
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/paul-pogba-2018-19-performances.440059/post-23335549
That doesn't help explain some of the absolutely woeful performances he's put in during big games. Liverpool last season being a good example
But yeah (when you like/are in love with a player fanboy) then it obviously is the dumbest stick
Jeppers your mind palace for every slight against Pogba is truly impressive.
Ronaldo was a massive problem, and if you didn't see that, I don't even know what to tell you. We didn't improve because we didn't replace him. Of course Ronaldo is better than Weghorst, but that's not the point.
Just like Maguire was a problem, we improved when we replaced him with Martinez. We improved when we replaced McTominay with Casemiro, although it lasted for a year, and now Casemiro has to be replaced as well. We improved when we got Varane instead of Lindelöf.
I think the one of the primary reason Casemiro's legs have gone are because he has had to play several roles simultaneously, and he has to run more over the pitch and chase more due to lack of control. Look at him for Real Madrid. Absolute control in midfield with Modric and Kroos next to him in midfield and they dominate the game with possession and building up attacks as a team. They almost never lose the ball by their midfielders, so he could conserve his energy much better.
At United, he'd have to make much more sprints as Bruno continously loses the ball due to either a bad pass or losing the ball in a challenge as he has no strength or press resistance.
Casemiro also contributes more offensively, as our attacking trio does not have enough goals in them, and we could blame that on Antony, Martial, Sancho and Weghorst. Whether that is decided by Casemiro himself or Ten Hag, I don't know, but losing your legs this quick at only 31 and looking - at times - like a retiree isn't normal.
Bruno is a big problem if you're looking to build a well-organized, possession side who wants to control games and play elite football. This transition, counter-attacking football isn't gonna make us a better team than City, Real Madrid, Arsenal, Bayern or Barcelona.
He is not the only problem, but at least most acknowledge that the other players aren't good enough, but some of you still believe that Bruno is a star player or that he is going to be a key player to winning trophies, despite him never playing well in a big game. You can blame this on "us as a team" or "everyone else" in this team, but the fact is that he, a supposed world class player, has not shown up in big games at all. Not only has he not shown up, he has performed badly.
The one and only time a word like “palace” will be used in association with the mind of that particular individual. Their inability to use the quote function had me wondering if something had broken in their brain and they were suddenly talking sense. Turns out I was reading my own words.
Instead of replying to his comment, you post a pathetic laughing emoji to hide your bias. Maybe the most cowardly poster this forum has seen. At least stand for what you say.
They - like you - are on ignore. I basically never see anything you post. Very occasionally (like now) curiosity gets the better of me and I click on “see ignored content”. Every single time my original decision is vindicated. I learned a long time ago how pointless it is to engage with either of you about football. Just a miserable waste of my time. The pair of ye are absolutely stinking the place out. It’s a crime against redcafe. Click on the “who replied” link at the top of this thread and take a long, hard think about how you spend your time on this place and whether it could be spent better.
Aaaaaaaand back to ignore you go…
Look at how many posters in this thread that wants Bruno out. Are all of them wrong?
You're slating Bruno critics for criticising him for the exact same way you did to Pogba. Incredible.
Well that’s the difference right there. I disagree with you about a hell of a lot but am never tempted to ignore you. There’s nothing wrong with different opinions. Just tedious bell ends who never add anything useful or interesting to the debate.
I agree Bruno has become a problem and his performances in big matches are one of the key reasons our record there is so poor. I think its partly his mentality but also carelessness in possession
Isn't a press-resistant midfielder largely just a midfielder who's good on the ball? In the same way a ball-playing defender is largely just a defender who's good on the ball. Maybe we're terming it differently but I don't think either are new or novel concepts. Like, we surely that's the first criteria we're after when targeting a midfielder. With that being said, GK's who are good on the ball have been massively popularised since Neuer.
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Whilst slightly harsh in tone, I am inclined to agree with the general principles of this post.
There are certain individuals in this thread who bring nothing but negativity and are so entrenched in their views that they are unwilling to listen to anyone else which adds zero value to the discussion.
Most posters that have pointed the finger at Bruno, myself included, don't want him out, it's not the point made. The point is simply that he is part of our issues in critical situations and unless we acknowledge and work around it we will struggle. One may wonder if it's worth it but it would be silly to "want him out" because he is definitely not the only issue and getting rid of him won't make us better.
It doesn’t mean anything though. Every good central midfielder will be “press resistant” because that’s their job. Holding onto the ball while under pressure in crowded areas of the pitch. That’s what central midfielders do. What makes the use of the “press resistant” phrase so pointless and annoying is the way people use it in a binary way. Player A is press resistant. Player B is not. That’s daft.
Having goalkeepers who are good on the ball is a newer trend. Also centre backs who are progressive passers. But we’ve had the words needed to describe all of this for years anyway. Long before the job descriptions for these players changed.
This is the paradox, replacing Bruno for a player who can keep possession better may allow United to keep the ball longer and control games, however by replacing him you will losing a huge amount of creativity.
This is reflected in his statistics which tell their own story.
Bruno isn't a problem in my eyes, perhaps his position on the pitch may be the crux of the issue and perhaps someone like Amrabat may step in and allow Bruno to play higher up the pitch.
However again, by doing that you may well lose a lot of the work that Bruno does tracking back.
You could say the same on the other side, though. Pogue, for instance, has not added anything or discussed his 23/24 performances once. Instead, he laughs at posters and dismisses their arguments and calls them boring, tedious and lacking football knowledge. He is constantly trying to insult or dismiss anyone who disagrees with his opinion on Bruno. He even had a go at Rozay, whose footballing knowledge is great, and whose post was very balanced and well-articulated. What does he add to this debate, other than his evident bias and insults?
It’s about the hypocrisy if you can’t understand that then I worry for you, but it’s why you’re on ignore.
There’s no quote function in locked threads you melon
There’s a quote function to the top right of the post you just typed, you absolute weapon.
As of now, it looks like ETH is not gonna get rid of him. He'll be here and of the main reasons for the eventual sacking of ETH(by Glazers or potential new owners - especially if the ambitious Qataris come in). He might get tempted by a Saudi offer in the future, especially with the club in disarray, but it doesn't seem like that so far.
He'll be phased out, but only with new, ambitious ownership and competent manager who values ball retention, possession and controlling games - which is essential, necessary for an elite club. I'm not gonna write again the problems with having Bruno in the squad, already talked about it, including also many other users of this forum who have common sense who were basically writing detailed essays about the issue. There's even a Tifo video explaining the problem with having Bruno Fernandes in the team, for those who are somehow unaware and need football education. Look it up, I've posted it already in this thread yesterday.
He'll be phased out, but only with new, ambitious ownership and competent manager who values ball retention, possession and controlling games - which is essential, necessary for an elite club. I'm not gonna write again the problems with having Bruno in the squad, already talked about it, including also many other users of this forum who have common sense who were basically writing detailed essays about the issue. There's even a Tifo video explaining the problem with having Bruno Fernandes in the team, for those who are somehow unaware and need football education. Look it up, I've posted it already in this thread yesterday.
Maybe so, I'll be honest and say I haven't read a huge amount of Pogues posts in this thread, however in his defence I do find Pogues posts to be generally of good quality.
Having said that, in order for discussion to be valid and meaningful, views cannot be entrenched and understanding does need to come from both sides.
It's all well and good saying Bruno needs to be dropped for example, yet when presented with facts, figures and statistics that state how important Bruno is to the team a level of understanding needs to happen.
The same does go for the counter argument of course.
Please show me stats that show how important Bruno was to the team against Bayern. Genuinely interested. Or Brighton.
Football education and a Tifo video don't often belong in the same sentence
This post in a nutshell is what is entirely wrong with many of the player performances threads. You have people arguing with a straight-face that a player's most recent appearance or two is a sample size worthy of dismissing entire seasons of their career that came before.
Vs Bayern Bruno had the most amount of touches by a United Midfielder, had an assist, attempted the second most amount of tackles (admittedly only winning one) had the most amount of completed passes by a United Midfielder, third only behind the two CBs as you'd expect, his successful pass figures only being blighted by the four long balls that were cut out, his short and medium passes were very high in terms of success rate.
So yeah, you could make bones on Casemiro scoring of course, but Bruno was still our most influential midfielder, with only Rashford beating him in terms of influence.
So, going by your logic, if he can show you 2-3 games where Bruno was spectacular then Bruno is the most important player we ever had?
There were certain games where Fergie would weaken our attack to shore up the team. I feel like dropping Bruno occasionally will become how we implement the same tactic.
He played well against Bayerm but would we have been better with a proper midfield 3.
He played well against Bayerm but would we have been better with a proper midfield 3.
Similar picture against Brighton.
Most touches, most passes, most carries, most progressive passes (17; next best was Casemiro with just 5!)
And these are matches where his performances were unanimously slated. I seem to have a reputation as a Bruno super fan but I’m fairly sure you won’t find a post from *even* me anywhere praising his performance in either fixture. Just goes to show how high our expectations are for him.
You sure? See below from the poster doubling everbody else's posts in here. What would you say to Zaafi on that?
I agree this might be something to consider in some fixtures. But I’d need a lot more confidence in the players we’d bring in if Bruno ever gets a day off. Maybe Amrabat and Mount will make this seem like something worth trying at some point?
Just to clarify, I don't want him benched for another player of ours. I want him replaced with a better player that will enhance our general play.
Indeed Casemiro, Amrabat, Mount would seem a more solid midfield. Replace Mount with Hannibal or Mainoo if either step up.
Saying that Casemiro Amrabat may prove solid enough to not require Bruno being sacrificed. Think ETH just needs to do what he needs to do to stop us conceding many per game.
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