Garnacho was onside. That was clear when ball was being passed forward. Drawing lines when ball is already on the way is wrong in every aspect. However, no apology issued to us against Arsenal. No apology issued when we didn't get penalty against Tottenham. No apology issude today when we didn't get penalty. No apology issued against Wolverhampton when they didn't gave us 2 penalties. No apology issued when Evans scored clear goal last week.
VAR and Refs | General Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
The technology compensates for the angle in relation to drawing the line, not to spotting the correct body part. It won’t take much to go outside the margin of error and there’s absolutely no reason why they would use a worse angle and ignore the angle that was straight on.
Woopsie!
Klopp rightly furious, like this does feck all. And they can’t even really call these morons out without getting additional bans and fines.
Exactly. Either they replay this Spurs game (can of worms I know) or they allow Klopp 2 minutes of screen time calling each ref involved in the game cnuts, bastards, mother feckers, clear Arab money grabbing cheats, etc.
But, hey we got an apology.
Them deciding to not draw the lines offers zero insight on how accurate the lines are when they do draw them.
They are a shambles. Don’t get me wrong, love that Liverpool got shafted by it, but my god, they are utter shit at their job and have no idea how to implement it at the appropriate times, let alone get the right decisions:
Not true. The greater the perspective angle from the camera to the line being interpreted, the greater the margin of error of the technology (i.e. the 3% error rate becomes a greater real world distance) and also if the wrong frame is selected (Garnacho v Arsenal) then that error is magnified with a more obtuse angle.
This season has seen so many var controversies that it’s really hard not to have the whole thing undermined. Confidence in the refs is at an all time low and they need to do something about it.
As per the tech, which was applied in complete line with how it is supposed to be, he was offside.
You could argue that the camera doesn't offer a high enough frame rate for sufficient accuracy if you want, though even then Garnacho was outside the margin of error they introduced to compensate for that.
Regardless, the specific suggestion that they used the wrong camera angle was nonsense. Whatever angles was used, it was going to show the same thing.
I never said that in relation to your post?
It's been like that ever since VAR was introduced for me. So many questionable calls.
Yeah, as usual the story should be the complete incompetence and cowardice of the officials involved. Get rid of them. Get in some actual decent officials in, from wherever in the world they might be. How much could it really cost to get the bloke who had the World Cup final from the Polish league? Keep the VAR officials and the on-field referees separate so there's no more "my mate on the field is right" arse-covering bullshit.
But nah, it'll likely just be "we should get rid of VAR" again.
You replied to my post to a poster who is saying that.
It was like that before VAR the refs arr the problem, there should be no Human intervention with VAR calls like offside, make it all computer based.
It’s happened to them so it’s going to be on front page if every news paper and Sunak will be discussing it in The Commons on Monday.
If it’s true the clubs voted not to use a more accurate technology, then they reap what they sow. not one controversial offside in the World Cup, yet leave it to the clowns that had years of poor decisions to be given the chance to make more errors.
The margin for error on offsides was too great. There’s about a 20cm margin of error for the fastest premier league players due to camera FPS limitation
If it’s true the clubs voted not to use a more accurate technology, then they reap what they sow. not one controversial offside in the World Cup, yet leave it to the clowns that had years of poor decisions to be given the chance to make more errors.
The margin for error on offsides was too great. There’s about a 20cm margin of error for the fastest premier league players due to camera FPS limitation
To be fair, tey've already given Liverpool a greater compensation than any other club by acknowledging it and apologising. United have had potential or actual game changing VAR errors against Wolves, Spurs, Arsenal, Palace and nothing but denials from Webb and Gallagher.
You also know that Liverpool will now be compensated indirectly by being awarded the majority of 50:50 decisions for the foreseeable future to avoid being on the receiving end of another Klopp conspiracy rant like the United penalty one which influenced us for 3 years.
The wrong frame was not selected. They selected the first frame available to them in which it was clear the ball was played, which was exactly what they were supposed to use.
You might argue that a sufficiently accurate frame didn't exist for them to use due to the camera frame rate. But then that's why the margin of error exists, which Garnacho fell outside.
Not checking the offside has nothing to do with the technology. Its just pure negligence. He should be reffing again.
I don't know if they did use wrong angle or not. The only thing I can say is that he wasn't offside because they were not drawing lines when ball was released. Lines were put when ball was under way.
Ball was already released in the VAR frame used. With two players travelling in opposite directions at high speed, can make a significant difference.
Line on defender was drawn onto wrong body part also.
The amount of times I’ve read this. It’s just a video replay, the lines and freezing is no where near accurate enough.At least Klopp is giving them both barrels after the game. Ten Hag is quiet as a mouse while we keep getting screwed over. To hell with the fine, just get out there and call out this incompetence ffs.
https://x.com/carra23/status/1708201539637014914?s=46&t=3cSPEXx54yOkvLX_Hq8XPw
Proper mad this is the most logical explanation of what happened
Proper mad this is the most logical explanation of what happened
Nah, hands firmly tucked in towards the body, never a pen.
You still get more right decisions with VAR than without it.
This is my biggest complaint with Ten Hag. It’s happening week after week and all he says is he doesn’t want to make excuses.
Show some nads, man. Fergie would spend 90 minutes bollocking the 4th official, then move into his post match presser and go after the ref, then just refuse to speak to the media/ban them from Carrington if he didn’t like what was written afterwards. Not saying it’s ethical but it works, 100%. And at this level it’s all about gaining that small advantage to stand above the rest.
I thought the red card on Jones was correct but the way they handled that was also ridiculous
They had the ref come over and instead of showing the full incident in slow mo they had a still of what looked like an ankle breaker which would have certainly swayed the ref before even watching the incident back.
Not like he was ever going with another decision anyway once called to the screen we just seem to accept that 99.9% of the time they go to the screen decision is changed which is a further farce
They had the ref come over and instead of showing the full incident in slow mo they had a still of what looked like an ankle breaker which would have certainly swayed the ref before even watching the incident back.
Not like he was ever going with another decision anyway once called to the screen we just seem to accept that 99.9% of the time they go to the screen decision is changed which is a further farce
Ten Hag does point our decisions that go against, but imo it's just done with a shoulder shrug
Been saying that for long time. Both him and club are just letting everyone down by being to nice.
VAR has ruined the game. 100%.
100%
Honestly, if there was no VAR I could live with the linesman not getting the offsides right. It was part of the game as their eyes are not eagle eyes. But Var somehow has managed to feck up offsides( for all sides)which is the easiest of all decisions they have to make. The owners and Mgrs have to get together and scrap it, protest it,and perfect it in pre season games again. These calls will get a team relegated or win a league. Again I can live with these calls if VAR wasn’t checking them but they are and STILL are getting them wrong.
As I said, they're supposed to use the first frame available to them in which the ball has been clearly played. So I don't know why you're saying the bold as if you didn't expect to see the ball having been played in the frame they used. There is indeed room for difference between that frame and the hypothetical perfect frame that would exist if the camera framerate was better, which is why they have the MOE Garnacho fell outside. You can feel free to complain that the MOE doesn't sufficiently compensate for the gap in frames if you want, but it is what it is. Until the tech improves, they can only work with the frames and MOE at their disposal, which they did.
And they didn't use the wrong part of the body. The defender's shoulder was further forward than his head because his upper body was turned. Again, that's something they're able to easily determine with the scope lines they use, and in this case I thought it was pretty clear just from looking at the image. Though given at least one poster tried to tell me it was physically impossible to have your shoulder further forward than your head, I'm not surprised there's an unwillingness to accept that.
There was no conspiracy or error in that offside call. You don't have to like it, you might think there is room for error in the system, but it was completely consistent with how offsides are supposed to be applied. In fact we've had much tighter calls than that go against us in the past.
Game’s been going downhill for a good while. VAR has accelerated the decline.
I agree that VAR has been a net negative, and the one time they have the chance to show the usefulness of VAR (overturning the offside decision for Diaz's goal), they just feck it up in spectacular fashion.
If you forget to check an offside when your job for the day is literally checking that situation, then you're fecking hopeless. Seriously, I think I'd do a better job at VAR than these numpties and I genuinely mean that as a challenge to Howard Webb to invite me over to be VAR for a day.
You know what, scratch that. I think I'd be a better VAR from my sofa than these guys are sitting in a multi-screen room. Just gimme a shout Howard and we'll sort out the details and show everyone how useless those cnuts are.
Anyway, feck up on the offside call aside, I thought the two reds were the correct call. But because they messed up the offside the reds will probably get fed into the narrative of injustice too.
Var isn't this bad in other leagues is it?
I thought you said in the past, may have been someone else, that the offside is called from when it first touches the passers foot, not when it leaves the foot. What does it mean ‘when it’s played’? Massive difference in frames to when it first touches the passers foot to when it leaves it
Jones tackle was a red card I thought
Why was there no PGMOL apology for the handball against Tottenham? Is it only when a decision goes against Liverpool
let's not forget the non foul for Jota's first yellow. or Salah getting cautioned after another non foul winning the ball in a great position. or Gomez getting run down in the box without the defender getting near the ball.
Also think VAR stitched up Jones. you can debate the red, but there is absolutely nothing for their ref to consider with what they showed him.
Honestly can't remember such a shit show of a refereeing performance that was also so one sided. The level of incompetence from the whole team is just staggering.