Since many I know are mistaking this video as real, I'd like to clarify its a promotional one of what they intended to do today. There's an obvious carton they're shooting at 35 seconds.
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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I didn't watch it all the way through. There was discussion about paragliders on MSNBC, I'll delete now.
There was at least one famous Palestinian operation launched from Lebanon during the civil war there where the attackers infiltrated on hang gliders.
I just can't get my mind wrapped around how Israel didn't see this coming. The GOAT of intelligence failures for them.
This could transform their society in much the same way as 9.11 transformed ours.
This could transform their society in much the same way as 9.11 transformed ours.
The bomb seemed quite puny though.
I got an alert of you quoting me in this post...a bug?
Big failure indeed. Questions will be asked.
My apologies, I quoted one of your posts in error.
These threads are going to go round and round infinitely if people keep engaging in “but what about…?”
can we not agree to condemn individual acts on their own merits no matter what side commit the atrocities?
I've learned from the Ukrainian war, that even those tiny explosions are lethal most of the time. The smallest shrapnels are enough to cause internal bleeding which leads to a very painful death.
Israel gonna response heavily after this? I think it is gonna be far worse than the 2014 war, and after this, Hamas should be totally destroyed.
Interesting. I was thinking, if you're an apartheid occupier, you're never the victim and can't ever have any complaints.
Until it's backwards
It's not whataboutism, it's a legitimate observation by @SilentWitness that violence against innocent Palestinians is (wrongly) normalized while violence against innocent Israeli civilians is (rightly) condemned.
Horrible to see and it can only be condemned but ultimately deaths on both sides are the fault of the Israeli government.
The circular violence just serves as a distraction from the one sided Israeli actions that should be condemned through diplomatic means.
The circular violence just serves as a distraction from the one sided Israeli actions that should be condemned through diplomatic means.
No, it is, and I grew up listening to it in ireland. It doesn’t help in these situations and only inflames conversations. Regardless of side, each should be condemned.
I also had a legitimate observation that annual 400,000 deaths caused by flus are (wrongly) normalized while 1.8 million deaths caused by COVID was (rightly) closely watched in 2020.
Can I say that people are "hypocrite" mourning and condemning Las Vegas Shooting in 2017 while 25,000+ people die from guns in USA every year are "normalized"?
People have already well-explained these are the effect of long-lasting ongoing-events fatigue vs sharp sudden current events.
So Israeli (with the unequivocal support of the western world) has killed far more civilians in Gaza in the last few hours than Hamas have managed in the last 10 years.
Hamas has turned it into an all out war, there will be a lot more to come unfortunately. I don't see any other outcome than Israel moving into Gaza to try and wipe Hamas out once and for all.
Sadly, the Mighty West have no balls to even contemplate doing that. Civilians will sadly keep dying, while the ratio of deaths between the two sides keeps increasing.
Whataboutism would be me saying "well Israel does it so it's ok when Hamas does it".
I didn't say that.
And there's nothing wrong with having inflamed conversations on the Caf.
Yes you can actually. Especially if you treat the Las Vegas shooting like an isolated situation independent of those other deaths that don't get as much attention and should.
And to your last point, you are wrong applying it to this thread. Violence against Palestinians doesn't get as much chatter. Not because people are fatigued, but because it's been normalized by Israel and it's allies and supporters. And any discussion of today's events that does not have this fact as a framework is fatally flawed.
Personally I feel the narrative is weighed heavily in favour of one side which isn't surprising given that's also how the media reflects the situation. Both sides have committed widespread atrocities against each other but one is protected by the west and the media to a level which is disgusting and unjust. My heart goes out to the innocent Israelis and the innocent Palestine's who are caught up in the latest of these events and it's terribly sad that they have to be involved in them because of an occupier (Israel) unwilling to stop at anything but to eradicate themselves of Palestine. What Hamas are doing is awful and I'm shocked and upset by some of the pictures and videos circulating but their retaliation was always going to be a when and not if. I cannot see peace ever being an option.
I don't see it as whataboutism when it's quite clear in the media and government in the UK who the narrative is played and supported to and who is stigmatized.
This event has stirred far more reaction from Pro-Palestinian outlets and users I see online than the events @SilentWitness referenced, not just pro-Israeli. Because it's simply a bigger and more newsworthy event that will inevitably have much greater consequence. I rarely venture into this thread but was prompted to do so specifically off the back of multiple pro-Palestinian posts on twitter concerned about the violence Israel will now unleash in retribution.
While it is wrong that the prior events referenced don't get more attention, the suggestion (or at least what I took as the suggestion) that the difference in people's responses here is due to some pro-Israeli bias seems a bit skewed. People might just be more inclined to post about this because it is factually a more significant event that will have much greater impact.
While it is wrong that the prior events referenced don't get more attention, the suggestion (or at least what I took as the suggestion) that the difference in people's responses here is due to some pro-Israeli bias seems a bit skewed. People might just be more inclined to post about this because it is factually a more significant event that will have much greater impact.
when you make a conclusive statement, please try to justify it instead of stating it blankly.
I hope you understand that "debates" and "discussion" are not just two sides stating their own stances. Too much "I think" "I feel" is why so many conflicts in this world occur.
In China, there are basically no reports of Palestinian deaths in their every day news but they make a big fuss about the strike today, is China Israel's ally and supporter?
They can quote you when they’re banned then. I’m done
Not intentionally. But implicitly, passively, yes. The silence is half the problem.
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Fair points raised.
I wouldn't say that pro-Israeli bias is intentional at times, more so it is there due to the western media narrative and government stance when it comes to the Israel vs Palestine situation. It means that fatigue may be an issue of news stories but also that it may get 'lost' in the space due to those narratives.
I think this results in some posts speaking about Israel retaliating while forgetting the things Israeli forces have done to Palestine and how that has built up into them retaliating (though doing things completely wrong too).
of course this is just my personal opinion and feelings about the matter and not fact. It's terribly sad for both sides of innocents who are living in the situation.
My point is simple. Why can’t we condemn these actions without the need to hark back to previous actions? We just go round in circles. People are posting emotionally and it doesn’t help them.
i don’t agree with what Israel have done in the past and no doubt will do in the future but quoting stuff from the past comes across as apologising for the current actions and I’m sure you don’t mean it like that.
Shooting innocent people standing at bus stops etc, dragging naked bodies around and kidnapping people to do god knows what is war crime behaviour as a stand alone event
Why is that the world shall revolve around Israel-Palestine conflict while there are millions of bad things and crimes happening in the world?
Apparently Palestinians are not wholly ignored by the world, even in the west. It keeps appearing on international news, a sizeable portion of people in the west are sympathetic to Palestinians (you can see from this thread), donations are made to them every year.
around 200 Palestinians are killed by IDF every year on average.
Can I say you are a hypocrite since I suppose you never cared 3000 Burmese civilians killed by the burmese military Junta in one year and "normalized" the brutalities committed by the Junta?
I could understand if those previous situations were many months or years ago but they're not, they are daily, weekly and monthly for people living in that region. It is an ongoing circle of events.
This isn't a stand alone event, it's a reflection of the ongoing events.
I would hope that I have explained in my posts that it is not apologising for the killing or torture of innocent people etc.
From just the clips recorded and released, add a guess at all those not recorded and its looking likely they've taken hundreds of hostages.
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Ominous.
They'd be insane to do it, but they might just go ahead and annex the Gaza strip.