Giggsyking
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- Joined
- Aug 24, 2013
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They dont want the world to see their crimes.Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
The oppressor banning journalists and news organisations is never a good sign.
They dont want the world to see their crimes.Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
The oppressor banning journalists and news organisations is never a good sign.
They also (together with UAE) joined BRICS. Like Egypt, who played both sides (US and USSR), the Gulf countries will likely play both US and China. They are currently more aligned with the US, but this might change if the US continues with their disaster foreign policy in Middle East (pretty much all of Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden administration have been terrible in that aspect).The ME is not a monolith though. Saudis will still want US military cooperation against Iran and their proxies.
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org...gainst-breaking-ceasefire-hamas-and-hezbollahDo you have a link for that poll?
Ofcourse they will play both US and China. But at this moment I don't foresee a fundamental shift from the ME to China in the sense that the US plays no role anymore.They also (together with UAE) joined BRICS. Like Egypt, who played both sides (US and USSR), the Gulf countries will likely play both US and China. They are currently more aligned with the US, but this might change if the US continues with their disaster foreign policy in Middle East (pretty much all of Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden administration have been terrible in that aspect).
The difference between the IDF and Hamas is, one tries to keep civilian casualties as low as possible, while the other's goal is to kill as many civilians as possible.By that logic all Israelites have to do time in the IDF so Hamas only kill soldiers
If it is that poll, then he’s being misleading about what it says.
China has huge economic interest in the region already and has been working behind the scenes on diplomatic relations with the Arab world for a while. ME is already a major energy supplier for China and rest of the major nations in Asia. Both the West and the East wants stability in the region, and Arab countries wants to play both sides. Israel is now being a thorn in the side for that vision, but the US and UK still can't help themselves but it's not exactly news to the region.If US continues to unconditionally support Israel while they genocide Gaza, I think there is a high chance that Middle East is gonna orient itself towards China. With Russia also becoming a satellite of China in near future, that could be the end of the Western supremacy.
Replying to you because even when disagreeing you are pretty fair and balanced.The alternative to supporting Hamas is to just accept the brutality. It's a tricky choice.
People continuously ask "What can Israel do?" The answer is literally anything they have the will to do.
Ask the same question of Palestine. The answer is much more limited. The idea that people choose to fight an army like Israel's from a position of such weakness is solely some sort of malevolence is absurd.
Agree with this, especially with the bolded one.China has huge economic interest in the region already and has been working behind the scenes on diplomatic relations with the Arab world for a while. ME is already a major energy supplier for China and rest of the major nations in Asia. Both the West and the East wants stability in the region, and Arab countries wants to play both sides. Israel is now being a thorn in the side for that vision, but the US and UK still can't help themselves but it's exactly news to the region.
The IDF kill more civilians than Hamas.The difference between the IDF and Hamas is, one tries to keep civilian casualties as low as possible, while the other's goal is to kill as many civilians as possible.
If you don't see the difference, than I rest my case.
When has that distinction ever been true? Or are we ignoring the yearly killing and injuring of palestinians by IDF or with the support of IDF?The difference between the IDF and Hamas is, one tries to keep civilian casualties as low as possible, while the other's goal is to kill as many civilians as possible.
If you don't see the difference, than I rest my case.
That's clearly bullshit. It's the aim of the IDF courtesy of Israel's Knesset/rules/aims/constitution to take all.the land around them by any means necessary. Since 1948.The difference between the IDF and Hamas is, one tries to keep civilian casualties as low as possible, while the other's goal is to kill as many civilians as possible.
If you don't see the difference, than I rest my case.
I assume that it's the poll since it's the one with these figures but yeah the framing is misleading because Hamas are also the least supported group.If it is that poll, then he’s being misleading about what it says.
Case in point, before it ever gets to the part about “57% have at least a somewhat positive view of Hamas” it says this…
“In fact, Gazan frustration with Hamas governance is clear; most Gazans expressed a preference for PA administration and security officials over Hamas—the majority of Gazans (70%) supported a proposal of the PA sending “officials and security officers to Gaza to take over the administration there, with Hamas giving up separate armed units,” including 47% who strongly agreed. Nor is this a new view—this proposal has had majority support in Gaza since first polled by The Washington Institute in 2014”
Agreed. My reading of this poll is that people in Gaza were not really that supportive of Hamas. The link contains numerous interesting figures. For example, 62% of Gazans wanted to maintain the ceasefire with Israel. In addition, the poll says: “half (50%) agreed with the following proposal: “Hamas should stop calling for Israel’s destruction, and instead accept a permanent two-state solution based on the 1967 borders.” “If it is that poll, then he’s being misleading about what it says.
Case in point, before it ever gets to the part about “57% have at least a somewhat positive view of Hamas” it says this…
“In fact, Gazan frustration with Hamas governance is clear; most Gazans expressed a preference for PA administration and security officials over Hamas—the majority of Gazans (70%) supported a proposal of the PA sending “officials and security officers to Gaza to take over the administration there, with Hamas giving up separate armed units,” including 47% who strongly agreed. Nor is this a new view—this proposal has had majority support in Gaza since first polled by The Washington Institute in 2014”
I think China is already on the charm offensive with the Arab states. They’re already facilitating conciliatory talks between Saudi and Iran, who I believe have spoken again regarding the Gaza conflict. Their messaging on this conflict specifically has been extremely balanced, and much fairer than what we’ve seen from the West. That will only endear them further to pro-Palestinian states.
You're having an absolute nightmare in this thread but this one takes the cake.No idea how you come to this conclusion.
The majority of the Gaza population (57% in polls) supports Hamas, a terrorist organisation. Thus, they aren't all that innocent.
Hamas is using civilians as shields so Israel will be condemned for killing innocent people when they go against the terrorists.
So what choices the IDF have? Either let Hamas get away with their terrorist attacks or go against them anyway and cause civilian losses.
The analogy of root cause and symptom can also be applied here. Hamas is the root of the issue, dead civilians is a symptom caused by Hamas actions.
A few really bad posters have entered the fray, up until now people at least seemed to try and learn something (for the most part) before commenting, or swiftly exited after being called out for nonsense.Standard of this thread has gone through the floor today.
Weird phenomenon I found with the MG threads also that there is a period of time where the discussion is really very decent and genuine despite being a difficult topic/confrontational.
It seems like at a certain point in time the people who were discussing well find themselves so often in opposition with the same people that the slinging starts and the whole thing capitulates, not to mention some posters just landing in with absolutely awful takes yet acting quite aggressively, to absolutely nobodies gain.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
We've been inundated with Twitter posts meant as a "proof" for whichever side you're on. Anything goes and it's killing the discussion. Too few are taking the time to formulate and write their opinion down.A few really bad posters have entered the fray, up until now people at least seemed to try and learn something (for the most part) before commenting, or swiftly exited after being called out for nonsense.
You and I are from the same generation and know this situation has it's roots back in post WW2, with the desire of the Alliance to find a homeland for the Jewish people who had suffered terribly before and during that war. Like a lot things at the time, it was handled more with a sense of doing something quickly (in the moment )as we now say, rather than properly.You dare to raise a particular question about a current topic and you are met with a volley of responses like.... brainless and offensive.
It is a sad reflection of some of the peoples intellect that they are not able to read the original question and respond sensibly instead of negativity.
And to stress yet again, I do not agree with what Israel is doing in the West Bank. Don't know how many more times I have to say that.
On this, I fully agree with you.Replying to you because even when disagreeing you are pretty fair and balanced.
This what can Israel do is BS. There is no balance in the question. And no this isn't supporting Hamas.
We get statements like "they've vowed to wipe Israel off the map" but has anyone seen the "constitution" Israel works to? (I've put in "" as Israel doesn't have a constitution more a set of rules and/or aims).
Didn't Nazi won the election?Again you making assumptions I never expressed.
57% aren't murderous psychopaths but support a terror organization that is! So they aren't that innocent. Without the strong support the Hamas terrorist organisation gets within the population they couldn't do what they are doing.
If you support murderous regimes or organisations, then you shouldn't cry when the day of reckoning comes. As a German I know what I'm talking about.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Pretty much all stats say that's just not true.The difference between the IDF and Hamas is, one tries to keep civilian casualties as low as possible, while the other's goal is to kill as many civilians as possible.
Thank you for sharing. Very brave of this journalist - hope he comes to no harm.Some insight from an Israeli journal in the West Bank.
It might already make a difference if people would at least take the time to write a few sentences about the sources they link. Because especially since Musk took over, it’s almost impossible for people without Twitter to assess the credibility of a source. And honestly, those still on there aren’t doing that good a job themselves. There’s just a lack of due diligence there.We've been inundated with Twitter posts meant as a "proof" for whichever side you're on. Anything goes and it's killing the discussion. Too few are taking the time to formulate and write their opinion down.
I would say it is more indication of social media and media representation of events and it’s impact especially on younger people or people with little knowledge of the region and history. Focusing on a recent act as opposed to years of persecution and crimes.I find it interesting that the biggest defenders of Israel in this thread aren't the Israeli posters.
Here we go, let's see some defense of this latest indefensible act.Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
The oppressor banning journalists and news organisations is never a good sign.
You are right about the blame culture.You and I are from the same generation and know this situation has it's roots back in post WW2, with the desire of the Alliance to find a homeland for the Jewish people who had suffered terribly before and during that war. Like a lot things at the time, it was handled more with a sense of doing something quickly (in the moment )as we now say, rather than properly.
I doubt if many of the posters on here really want to engage in philosophical discussion of what went wrong, only who to blame.
I honestly don't get the point you were making about referencing history. I love history and it's a useful tool to understand things, but only through analysis. To me, it looked like you were just shrugging off oppression and saying 'well that's just what we do'. I trust you weren't, but I can't see your point, and that's why people have reacted to your post. Like your post about Palestinians living in relative peace, it seems quite glib and dismissive of a lot of suffering, even if that wasn't intended.You are right about the blame culture.
Just look back a day or so to the instant of the terrible hospital explosion at the almost instant tirade of posts blaming the IDF. Yet if you dared to offer anything different, the same agressive responses.
My earlier post about the West Bank was to question what was happening compared to history. Both recent and past.
But you will have seen some of the aggressive responses.
For this very important thread to mean anything, we ought to question.
Instead it just becomes the same type of sentiment repeated over and over again.
That’s why the thread title says less tweets, more discussion. A few tweets here and there are fine, but ultimately, it’s the discussion (not necessarily related to a tweet) that makes the thread more productive.We've been inundated with Twitter posts meant as a "proof" for whichever side you're on. Anything goes and it's killing the discussion. Too few are taking the time to formulate and write their opinion down.
You haven't acted neutral at all. You're not an impartial observer seeking objective truth. Please don't portray yourself as such because it's very disingenuous and is fooling no one. Your provocative questions have upset some posters and they have responded with ad hominen attacks, which is wrong.You are right about the blame culture.
Just look back a day or so to the instant of the terrible hospital explosion at the almost instant tirade of posts blaming the IDF. Yet if you dared to offer anything different, the same agressive responses.
My earlier post about the West Bank was to question what was happening compared to history. Both recent and past.
But you will have seen some of the aggressive responses.
For this very important thread to mean anything, we ought to question.
Instead it just becomes the same type of sentiment repeated over and over again.
Great. A denier.The difference between the IDF and Hamas is, one tries to keep civilian casualties as low as possible, while the other's goal is to kill as many civilians as possible.
If you don't see the difference, than I rest my case.
Not sure if I'm from the same generation as you, I'm in my 50's.You and I are from the same generation and know this situation has it's roots back in post WW2, with the desire of the Alliance to find a homeland for the Jewish people who had suffered terribly before and during that war. Like a lot things at the time, it was handled more with a sense of doing something quickly (in the moment )as we now say, rather than properly.
I doubt if many of the posters on here really want to engage in philosophical discussion of what went wrong, only who to blame.
No, don't play games. You called posters juvenile for not taking your posts on board. You made similar comments yesterday. I don't think I said anything was unacceptable, I just asked you to refrain from doing it.So if I understand you correctly. Proliferating unverified and sensationalist media and reports which add nothing to debate, but pour fuel on the fire of an already volatile situation where emotions are running high is acceptable.
Pointing out that people in general (without insulting posters or even limiting the phenomenon to redcafe) are doing so, and that they ignoring reliable and expert opinions in favour of doing this; is unacceptable? And you consider it a “blanket insult” ?
There are about two Israeli posters in this thread who rarely post, probably because they’re busy elsewhere because their country is at war.I find it interesting that the biggest defenders of Israel in this thread aren't the Israeli posters.
Let me explain the reason for my post.That aside my point was that if a percentage of people, 57% are "really not that innocent" then every baby born in Israel to Israelis is a legitimate target.
**This isn't what I believe I'm just responding to the absolutely batshit claim of "not that innocent" made earlier