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VorZakone

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Not refugees, 300,000 Palestinians as a whole apparently live there. Not all of the Palestinian diaspora live in refugee camps, many are just normally integrated and live their lives in their host country.
Ok, I couldn't find anything on it. Was surprised to read that as all I know Qatar has a small population of Qatari citizens and the rest are foreign workers.
 

Raoul

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We have acknowledgement from several Israeli authorities in the know that Israel helped facilitate, in various ways, the growth of the Muslim Brotherhood in the occupied territories in the 70s and 80s in order to counter the unifying appeal of the PLO. I’m not aware of acknowledgement of funding for Hamas after it was formed as a militant and political front for the Muslim Brotherhood at the start of the First Intifada, but would be open to correction there.
Funding them may be a it over the top but Netanyahu did things to tacitly stabilize Hamas’ rule in Gaza by allowing 15m in cash to be sent in from Qatar in 2018 to pay local civil servants after Fatah stopped payments to them in a cynical attempt to reduce Hamas’ influence in the strip. At the time Netanyahu’s excuse was that it would help stabilize southern Israeli towns from rocket attacks, something the likes of Naftali Bennett were very critical of; in retrospect rightfully so.

This is one of those examples some are now citing where Israel helped Hamas, but as usual, the specifics of why are a bit more nuanced than headline itself.
 

Giggsyking

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When I see the stark contrast about how much noise Arab countries and Turkey make about Palestinians in Gaza while it's total silence about what is happening to Uyghurs in Xinjiang (or East Turkestan for the locals), it already speaks a lot of volumes. Now that no Arab country (not even Saudi Arabia, not even Qatar, not even the UAE - all rich countries) will lift a single finger to take care of a single Gazan refugee right now, it only confirms that hypocrisy I have seen unfolding for a number of years now, especially when Europe and North America made several efforts to receive Ukrainian refugees over the last 20 months in comparison.
You do know that Jordan, Turkey, Pakistan and Iran have the largest refugee population in the world. I cant believe this has to be clarified every day. :lol:
 
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Giggsyking

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There are already millions of Palestinian refugees in Arab countries. You heartless pricks need to stop victim blaming and channel your energies on stopping the bombing of innocent people.
It's astonishing, the victim blaming, but yeah what do you expect from someone who say they are not innocent civilians because they "voted for Hamas in 2006" :lol:
 

moses

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I have no idea either, yet.
I didn't talk about politics in this case, just presented the most realistic and the fastest way to stop their suffering. The only other faster way would be to stop bombing, but it's just not realistic today because Israel won't stop now. The children don't care about former British Irish crisis policitics, they just want to play outside without bombs falling on their heads and the most realistic and fastest way to achieve it is to take in Gazan refugees. So why isn't anyone talking about it? Why is this solution hushed-up in the Arabic countries? Ukraine also faces a military stronger enemy and millions of Ukrainians, who didn't want to suffer Russian missiles fled to Europe. So why isn't it a possibility for the Arab countries? They either care about Palestinian civilians or they just hate Israel.
So you think an international consensus is easier achieved than Israel just not killing children? Telling.

And that lack of consensus is because they hate Israel?

Have you not seen the global refusal to accept refugees? But when Arabs do the same thing it's hate. Telling.

The Ukrainian refugees is an outlier, and there are theories why.

It's very odd with deaths to thousands of children's by a US backed and funded army, it's the surrounding Arabs you accuse of hate.

And it's not hushed up, all the Arab counties have taken Palestinian refugees over the decades. There is an estimated 8 million Palestinian refugees, mostly in Arab countries.

You're basically an anti Arab trope generator.
 
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the_cliff

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How about all those Arab states that are waving the Palestinian flags take them in like Europe does with all other refugees? Saudi Arabia has the space and money, but that would require actual empathy and not superficial for political reasons. Strange that all demonstrations for Palestinian people never mention the blockade of all those Arab states refusing to take them in.
Where do you think all of the Palestinians that were in other areas of modern day Israel are ? Do you know how many Palestinians are already in Middle Eastern countries ? Lebanon ? Egypt ? Jordan ?

The fact of the matter is Gaza is Palestinian land and if they leave Gaza/West Bank there'll be no Palestine left, so what you're advocating for is forced displacement of an entire population, otherwise knows as......
 

Raoul

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Ok, I couldn't find anything on it. Was surprised to read that as all I know Qatar has a small population of Qatari citizens and the rest are foreign workers.
And many in those numbers cited are ethnic Palestinians who are fully integrated into and identify as members of the nation they live in.
 

Giggsyking

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I didn't talk about politics in this case, just presented the most realistic and the fastest way to stop their suffering. The only other faster way would be to stop bombing, but it's just not realistic today because Israel won't stop now. The children don't care about former British Irish crisis politics, they just want to play outside without bombs falling on their heads and the most realistic and fastest way to achieve it is to take in Gazan refugees. So why isn't anyone talking about it? Why is this solution hushed-up in the Arabic countries? Ukraine also faces a military stronger enemy and millions of Ukrainians, who didn't want to suffer Russian missiles fled to Europe. So why isn't it a possibility for the Arab countries? They either care about Palestinian civilians or they just hate Israel.
Yeah, that is the most astonishing way of stopping the suffering, expelling them from their land, there is term for this, yeah,

Its called fecking ethnic cleansing.
 

carvajal

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Hmm, interesting. A lot of the German posters in this thread are very knowledgeable in the football forums so bit jarring to see them be so pro-Israel. Can't say I know much about the media and political landscape in Germany, and why the coverage would be so pro-Israel. Also would be interesting to know why Spain has been quite pro-Palestine. Big questions, not enough time or knowledge to answer them.
In Spain there were elections, now they are in the process of pacts. The left needs the extreme left to govern and they have been very critical of Israel from day one. With another government, or without needing their votes, they would surely have abstained from that resolution.
 

nickm

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It's wild that anyone can watch what is unfolding and still belive that. Childlike naivite.
I'm explaining why Israel's response is not 'proportionate' not whether it is right. People calling for a proportionate response don't seem to realise what a proportionate response is for.
 
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nickm

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But @nickm told us we can't trust those numbers, despite even Israel never having disputed them before.
I said you should be sceptical (in the scientific sense) of all numbers without verification, especially during a war. Which frankly should be the position of any rational person.
 

nickm

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Use special forces to mount rescue operations for hostages, use your extensive intelligence network to target Hamas in a surgical and precise manner.
This the extensive intelligence network that didn't see the Hamas attacks coming?
 

Pintu

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Funding them may be a it over the top but Netanyahu did things to tacitly stabilize Hamas’ rule in Gaza by allowing 15m in cash to be sent in from Qatar in 2018 to pay local civil servants after Fatah stopped payments to them in a cynical attempt to reduce Hamas’ influence in the strip. At the time Netanyahu’s excuse was that it would help stabilize southern Israeli towns from rocket attacks, something the likes of Naftali Bennett were very critical of; in retrospect rightfully so.

This is one of those examples some are now citing where Israel helped Hamas, but as usual, the specifics of why are a bit more nuanced than headline itself.

It’s not only the salaries. There were $30M paid to Hamas via Israel (and the UN) in March 2019, approved by Netanyahu… Qatari officials talked about it last week... This literally helped Hamas crush an uprising in Gaza 2019 and stabilise its power over the strip… Netanyahu justified it speaking to
his own Likud friends by saying “keeping Hamas in power is the best way to prevent a Palestinian state”…
 

nickm

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It is simply not possible for a reasonable person to look at what has happened and conclude that Israel was "just trying to get at Hamas."
I'm not sure about that, because of the extensive way Hamas is integrated into society in Gaza, the way Hamas uses civilian areas as cover, and god knows how many tunnels under everything. I can see how a certain level of civilian destruction is likely to be inevitable if your aim is to get at all that. Attacks on Hamas that result in civilian casualties are not by themselves, proof that civilians are the targets. But it is hard to tell of course, and it's very hard to untangle what is are legitimate responses to Hamas, and what is revenge, especially at the moment. Emotions are very high.
 
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hasanejaz88

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You do know that Jordan, Turkey, Pakistan and Iran have the largest refugee population in the world. I cant believe this has to be clarified every day. :lol:
To be honest, Germany is in between them if I remember correctly. I think they have the second it third most refugees.

This is the conundrum, Germany have been fantastic in supporting refugees, especially from Muslim majority countries, and have integrated them better than other European countries, but this is one issue they won't back down from.

Ofcourse, it makes sense when looking at history, but what annoys me is that they don't say that's the reason but rather go on to vilify Palestinians and their supporters to get defend their view (I suppose they need to say this to show their full support for Israel, otherwise it would look weird for them to say well we only support them because we're guilty we committed genocide against them in the past, but the government is still evil).
 

2cents

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Funding them may be a it over the top but Netanyahu did things to tacitly stabilize Hamas’ rule in Gaza by allowing 15m in cash to be sent in from Qatar in 2018 to pay local civil servants after Fatah stopped payments to them in a cynical attempt to reduce Hamas’ influence in the strip. At the time Netanyahu’s excuse was that it would help stabilize southern Israeli towns from rocket attacks, something the likes of Naftali Bennett were very critical of; in retrospect rightfully so.

This is one of those examples some are now citing where Israel helped Hamas, but as usual, the specifics of why are a bit more nuanced than headline itself.
Sure, since coming back to power in 2009 Netanyahu has preferred to have Hamas in Gaza as a means of ensuring no peace process. He will hopefully pay for this policy one way or another.
 

nickm

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Mossad aren't exactly some inept pencil pushers.
I can see why a PM might not turn to his intelligence apparatus as his first line of military response at this precise moment, yes.
 

nickm

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As has been said by @Murder on Zidane's Floor just now in this thread, there is no existential threat to Israel from Hamas. The same way there IRA couldn't wipe Britain off the map. It's fantasy stuff.
You are very confident of how Israelis should feel about the threat - and reality in places - of constant attack - especially given the whole point of Israel.
 

HTG

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You can hardly blame German posters/people when 99,99 German politicians and at least 98% of German media don’t have the balls and/or aren’t allowed to say anything even slightly negative about Israel or show any sympathy for the Palestine people.

British media at least occasionally shows a longer interview from Palastinians (journalists, ngo, public, …) where they tell what Israel has actually been doing to Palastine people not just now, but for decades, while German media repeatedly shows reports of how Hamas recruit children and how the Israelis live in fear.
They constantly show interviews of Israeli politicians and army members who all talk like Trump.
On the dead Palestine people they just briefly quote the numbers and many times not even that, instead they just say “dead and wounded on both sides”.

If they show Gaza destruction, etc., they immediately turn their attention on Israel’s right to defence, free hostages and then take you to another interview with an Israeli army general who then again tells how many children are being held hostage by Hamas (he never mentions the thousands of children his army is killing and the German journalists never dare to ask him about it).
And a lot of Germans genuinely believe Germany and West are the good guys and German media is unbiased and covers all sides of a story equally. It’s Germany after all and not Russia or Qatar.
What are you basing your assessment of German media and public on?
 

Mogget

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You are very confident of how Israelis should feel about the threat - and reality in places - of constant attack - especially given the whole point of Israel.
I'm confident you don't need to be Israeli to say it is extremely unlikely the state of Israel is in danger of being wiped out by Hamas.
 

HTG

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I'm confident you don't need to be Israeli to say it is extremely unlikely the state of Israel is in danger of being wiped out by Hamas.
I think it depends on how you interpret existential threat. They might not be an existential threat to the state of Israel. But for the individually living there, this might be a different matter. The Hamas are obviously a threat to Israeli citizens and their way of life.
 

HTG

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On being German and living in Germany.
Thanks.
And here’s the part I disagree with. It’s the notion that the media is not allowed to be critical of Israel, as you claimed. Because that’s factually not true.
Otherwise, I tend to agree (with varying degree) with the broader points you make. I also consider most of German media to be biased towards Israel. But I think it’s wrong and even dangerous to make it seem like they are forced to do so. They are not. They are freely choosing how to report on all that’s transpiring.
 

Gehrman

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I'm confident you don't need to be Israeli to say it is extremely unlikely the state of Israel is in danger of being wiped out by Hamas.
More probably Iran if they got a nuke and decided on mutual annihilation.
 

carvajal

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How is the press in Spain? Pro Israel or pro Palestine? In the UK for instances it's pretty pro Israel. In the US it's extremely pro-Israel, even at left media like NY times.
I would say 50/50. Purely informative articles.
Going to opinions, the right wing press doesn't give a damn about Israel, they simply distrust Muslims. Israel and Armenia suffer the same in their eyes.
In any case I don't think it is being followed as closely as in other countries.
 

berbatrick

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And I don’t care for your personal arguments.
The point made is absolutely true. If countries like Saudi Arabia, Turkey or Iran gave even the slightest shit, they’d be working on ways to get Palestinians to safety.
And as they don’t, they aren’t doing anything. And I don’t see how anyone supporting the Palestinian cause could actually be ok with that.
Another way to put this is to facilitate ethnic cleansing in line with a published plan from the Israeli thank-tanks.

I think people "supporting the Palestinian cause" are primarily concerned with the entity that carried out the ethnic cleansing, the occupation, set up an Apartheid state, and killed some tens of thousands of Palestinians over the years, and the prime diplomatic backer of that country.
Somewhat similarly, it was Germany and not the US that did the Holocaust, even though the US' immigration policies were awful.

I also consider most of German media to be biased towards Israel. But I think it’s wrong and even dangerous to make it seem like they are forced to do so. They are not.
I think threat to employment can be a powerful motivator in keeping certain viewpoints out of media discourse. For example,

As part of its charter, Axel Springer maintains five “essentials.” These include standing up for “freedom, the rule of law, democracy and a united Europe”; supporting “the Jewish people and the right of existence of the State of Israel”; advocating “the transatlantic alliance between the United States of America and Europe”; upholding “the principles of the market economy and its social responsibility”; and rejecting “political and religious extremism and all forms of racism and sexual discrimination.”

On Sept. 1, Germany’s international broadcaster, Deutsche Welle (DW) updated its Code of Conduct to require all employees, when speaking either on behalf of the organization or in a personal capacity, to “support the right of Israel to exist” or face consequences, such as dismissal.

These mean there can be no discussion on the fundamentals of an apartheid state. And, in practice, we see:
https://theintercept.com/2023/10/26/axel-springer-fires-employee-israel/
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022...palestinian-ex-dw-journalist-sacking-unlawful
https://electronicintifada.net/blog...red-palestinian-journalist-german-court-rules
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/2...eaceful-west-bank-protest-against-occupation/
https://www.972mag.com/dw-code-israel-free-speech/

(Hey, it looks like all of those fired are from minority backgrounds --- nothing to see here!)

I think the threat of deportation can also be a big motivator in reducing public discourse. For example:

https://www.news.com.au/world/europ...s/news-story/362a13b1fb137219be982ea58ad4908f
https://www.972mag.com/abdulnasser-samidoun-germany-palestinian-refugees/
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/...rities-accused-of-anti-palestinian-repression
 

united_99

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Thanks.
And here’s the part I disagree with. It’s the notion that the media is not allowed to be critical of Israel, as you claimed. Because that’s factually not true.
Otherwise, I tend to agree (with varying degree) with the broader points you make. I also consider most of German media to be biased towards Israel. But I think it’s wrong and even dangerous to make it seem like they are forced to do so. They are not. They are freely choosing how to report on all that’s transpiring.
I didn’t mean that the Verfassung says you are not allowed to be critical of Israel (maybe the Verfassung even says this, I don’t know).
But look even recently when Germany abstained (which is already very coward and shameless in my opinion seeing the increasing number of deaths among Palastinians), and still got criticised by Israeli officials.
Look when Guterres dared to tell the truth and Israel demanded him to resign.
You can be sure if a German politician in Germany had said this or anything close to this the voices in Germany especially from many many politicians would be so loud that the person would have already apologised and resigned.

So if a German journalist or politician says anything even slightly critical of Israel or their government’s policy you will have everyone from the Zentralrat der Juden to almost every politician in Germany and Israel ask for the person to resign.
That’s what I mean with “not allowed or not having the balls”. It shouldn’t be that difficult to regret the past, support Israel but at the same time not allow them to do and say as they please. But the West and especially Germany are doing exactly this.
The thing is unfortunately that Germany is indeed in a difficult position.
If Biden criticised Israel (which he very very rarely does), Israel won’t dare to ask for his resignation. Now if Scholz did the same, he would need to resign a day later as Israel won’t stop demanding his resignation until it would happened.
 

HTG

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Another way to put this is to facilitate ethnic cleansing in line with a published plan from the Israeli thank-tanks.

I think people "supporting the Palestinian cause" are primarily concerned with the entity that carried out the ethnic cleansing, the occupation, set up an Apartheid state, and killed some tens of thousands of Palestinians over the years, and the prime diplomatic backer of that country.
Somewhat similarly, it was Germany and not the US that did the Holocaust, even though the US' immigration policies were awful.
You can be primarily concerned with Israel and the actions of the Israeli state and still be of the opinion that other countries have a morale obligation to aid and support the Palestinian people and provide them with refuge, if they choose to accept it. These things in no way at all exclude each other. They can be true at the very same time. The same way I am obviously primarily concerned with Germany's part in the Holocaust and still believe that the international community failed, to provide millions of people with aid and refuge. Two bad things can exist at the same time. A very bad and a not so bad thing can exist at the same time. I can be critically of the actions of Israel and still believe that every country, but especially the neighboring ones, need to provide aid and shelter to the victims of the war. And it doesn't matter what Israeli think tanks want or plan for the point to stand. People under occupation, people living through war, always need to be provided with an opportunity to flee. And it should be their decision, not mine and not yours, to decide if they do so or not. And if someone believes fleeing would just mean doing what Israel wants and they decide to stay, that is their decision and I respect that. Same if they decide to flee. You and others on the other hand are making this decision for them. And there is no scenario in which this will ever even get close to being ok for me. And it is especially baffling if you are calling the actions undertaken by Israel "ethnic cleansing" and therefore think the best way to deal with this (other than making Israel stop, which I would love but don't see happening) is to basically force them to undergo this ethnic cleansing. Or force them to fight it.
So to make this short, I absolutely understand the intentions of Israel. I absolutely understand that they are the reason or at least the very main reason why the Palestinians live under the conditions they do. But this in no way justifies a way of thinking where other countries don't have the very same responsibility they have in every single conflict there is: to provide aid and refuge. And it doesn't change that the only people who are to decide whether it is right or wrong to accept this, are the ones affected by what is happening. So please stop this tiresome repetition of the very same argument multiple people have made before you. I understand it. I still disagree. It is the Palestinians choice. Everyone else merely has the duty to provide them with this choice. That doesn't negate the necessity to work towards an improvement of the situation, to work towards peace and so. But currently we do not have peace. Currently we have war and a humanitarian crisis. So we have to provide aid. Every Palestinian wanting to flee this humanitarian crisis needs to be provided with an opportunity to do so. As easily as possible. Period. I don't care the slightest bit if some Israeli think tank is happy with that decision. I care about the lives that can be saved this way.

I think threat to employment can be a powerful motivator in keeping certain viewpoints out of media discourse. For example,

As part of its charter, Axel Springer maintains five “essentials.” These include standing up for “freedom, the rule of law, democracy and a united Europe”; supporting “the Jewish people and the right of existence of the State of Israel”; advocating “the transatlantic alliance between the United States of America and Europe”; upholding “the principles of the market economy and its social responsibility”; and rejecting “political and religious extremism and all forms of racism and sexual discrimination.”

On Sept. 1, Germany’s international broadcaster, Deutsche Welle (DW) updated its Code of Conduct to require all employees, when speaking either on behalf of the organization or in a personal capacity, to “support the right of Israel to exist” or face consequences, such as dismissal.

These mean there can be no discussion on the fundamentals of an apartheid state. And, in practice, we see:
https://theintercept.com/2023/10/26/axel-springer-fires-employee-israel/
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022...palestinian-ex-dw-journalist-sacking-unlawful
https://electronicintifada.net/blog...red-palestinian-journalist-german-court-rules
https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/2...eaceful-west-bank-protest-against-occupation/
https://www.972mag.com/dw-code-israel-free-speech/

(Hey, it looks like all of those fired are from minority backgrounds --- nothing to see here!)

I think the threat of deportation can also be a big motivator in reducing public discourse. For example:

https://www.news.com.au/world/europ...s/news-story/362a13b1fb137219be982ea58ad4908f
https://www.972mag.com/abdulnasser-samidoun-germany-palestinian-refugees/
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/...rities-accused-of-anti-palestinian-repression
This is more in line with the broader points I already said I share. The issues exist and I didn't deny their existence. So I don't really get your point here. My point merely was that there is nothing at all prohibiting people from reporting otherwise. It still stands. It is not illegal. That huge parts of German media are biased towards Israel is something I have already agreed with. I am also aware of Axel Springer's policy in this regard. And if you knew me and my personal stands towards the shitshow that is Axel Springer, you wouldn't make this argument. Because you would find that I'm already in agreement.
But, and this is what matters, nothing is stopping you from publishing your own opinions on the matter. And it is happening in German media. And in mainstream media. The headline in the Tagesschau app right now is a story focusing on the struggles of Palestinians in Gaza. About people trying to provide humanitarian aid and being endangered because of this. This is one of the biggest news sources in the country, likely the most trusted one and publicly financed. The dismissals you mentioned are all being reported on. At times from German language publications being led by people with Palestinian roots. So not only are you free to report on these things, there are actually Palestinian publications working from Germany.

To make my point clear. I am mostly in agreement with you. As I have been with the poster I have quoted before. What I am disagreeing with, however, is the notion that it is illegal or prohibited to report on certain things. The statement I took issue with was this "[...] aren’t allowed to say anything even slightly negative about Israel or show any sympathy for the Palestine people". This is factually not true. Especially the latter part. I can just open my Tagesschau app and read the main story there, portraying the struggle of Palestinian people. That's literally a story showing sympathy with Palestinian people.
The thing that irks me about all this is this: I actually believe that German society needs to have a debate about our relationship with Israel, how our past plays into this and about how we portray this conflict. I have been of the opinion (and have so for years) that Palestinians often don't get a fair portrayal in our media. And I believe that there actually is a tendency to let Israel get away with things other nations couldn't.
But I also believe that we of all countries also have an obligation and responsibility towards Jewish people and their struggles. And I believe it is a good thing for our society and its institutions to be sensible and careful in regards to anything related to the matter. And this very difficult situation, that I often feel people on here and in other places don't care to understand, especially when things are as emotional as right now, require for the discourse to be accordingly. Which to me means that the criticism we voice and the points we raise need to be factual and true. That we need to present them in a sensible and fair manner. Because antisemitism also exists and anti-semites love using opportunities like this to amplify their views. So we must ensure that we don't resort to exaggeration and misinformation. Because this makes it easier for those acting with sinister motifs, who actually support genocide, who actually hold racist believes towards muslims and so on and on, to get the upper hand in this debate. The more wrong points are being raised, the easier it gets for them to paint the fair ones as part of the same picture. So when people claim that German news aren't allowed to report certain things, this pisses me of. Because not only is this not true, but it makes it much more difficult to argue valid criticism, like the one you provided. It helps the "other" side. It makes it incredibly easy to portray criticism towards Israel as a bunch of made up nonsense. Which is precisely what is happening right now and has been happening for years. And as long as people don't get this, nothing will ever change.
 
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Irrational.

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Doctors in Gaza have said that Israel have told them to evacuate a key hospital today.

At least there will be no doubt about this one. Or will they manage to spoof up some other pretend recordings within a few hours blaming Hamas?
 

dinostar77

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Sky News:

More children reportedly killed in Gaza than in all world conflict zones last year

More children have been reportedly killed in Gaza in three weeks than across all of the world's conflict zones in each of the last three years, according to Save the Children.

The Hamas-led Gaza healthy ministry reported 3,324 children were killed in the territory by Israeli airstrikes since 7 October.
It said another 33 children were killed in the West Bank, while Israel's health ministry said 29 children were killed in Israel.

Across conflict zones in more than 20 countries, 2,674 children were killed in 2020; 2,515 in 2021; and 2,985 in 2022, Save the Children said.

"Three weeks of violence have ripped children from families and torn through their lives at an unimaginable rate," said Save the Children's Palestinian territories director, Jason Lee.
"The numbers are harrowing and with violence not only continuing but expanding in Gaza right now, many more children remain at grave risk."

Save the Children warned Israel's expanded ground operations will bring about more deaths, and called for a ceasefire.

"The international community must put people before politics – every day spent debating is leaving children killed and injured," said Mr Lee.
"Children must be protected at all times, especially when they are seeking safety in schools and hospitals."
 

dinostar77

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Doctors in Gaza have said that Israel have told them to evacuate a key hospital today.

At least there will be no doubt about this one. Or will they manage to spoof up some other pretend recordings within a few hours blaming Hamas?
Yep, they are going to bomb a hospital where thousands are seeking refuge.

Al-Jazeera
  • Israel steps up strikes close to Al-Quds Hospital in Gaza City after ordering its “immediate” evacuation; the World Health Organization says it is “deeply concerned”.
BBC News
  1. Doctors and the Palestinian Red Crescent in Gaza say Israel has told them to evacuate a key hospital in Gaza City
  2. There are 400 patients being treated inside Al-Quds hospital and moving them is impossible, the Palestinian Red Cross says
  3. Around 14,000 civilians are also understood to be sheltering in the hospital and its grounds
 

HTG

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Sky News:

More children reportedly killed in Gaza than in all world conflict zones last year

More children have been reportedly killed in Gaza in three weeks than across all of the world's conflict zones in each of the last three years, according to Save the Children.

The Hamas-led Gaza healthy ministry reported 3,324 children were killed in the territory by Israeli airstrikes since 7 October.
It said another 33 children were killed in the West Bank, while Israel's health ministry said 29 children were killed in Israel.

Across conflict zones in more than 20 countries, 2,674 children were killed in 2020; 2,515 in 2021; and 2,985 in 2022, Save the Children said.

"Three weeks of violence have ripped children from families and torn through their lives at an unimaginable rate," said Save the Children's Palestinian territories director, Jason Lee.
"The numbers are harrowing and with violence not only continuing but expanding in Gaza right now, many more children remain at grave risk."

Save the Children warned Israel's expanded ground operations will bring about more deaths, and called for a ceasefire.

"The international community must put people before politics – every day spent debating is leaving children killed and injured," said Mr Lee.
"Children must be protected at all times, especially when they are seeking safety in schools and hospitals."
I have googled the story and couldn't find its original source. Could you provide a link for me?
 

4bars

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How about all those Arab states that are waving the Palestinian flags take them in like Europe does with all other refugees? Saudi Arabia has the space and money, but that would require actual empathy and not superficial for political reasons. Strange that all demonstrations for Palestinian people never mention the blockade of all those Arab states refusing to take them in.
There are 3 milion palestinians in jordan (1/4 of their population), half a milion in syria and several hundreds in lebanon and syria. It is almost the same population than gaza and west bank. What else do you want? All of them so israel can get all the territory?
 

4bars

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In Spain there were elections, now they are in the process of pacts. The left needs the extreme left to govern and they have been very critical of Israel from day one. With another government, or without needing their votes, they would surely have abstained from that resolution.
You dont know what extreme left is mate
 

nickm

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I'm confident you don't need to be Israeli to say it is extremely unlikely the state of Israel is in danger of being wiped out by Hamas.
I shouldn't need to say that Hezbollah and Hamas are both backed by a state that could wipe out the State of Israel, run by a regime which has said they'd be up for it.

Israel itself was founded because a regime had a bloody good attempt at intentionally wiping out every last Jewish person they could find - an act so unprecedented they had to invent the word genocide to define it (a word now used increasingly carelessly).

Even if Hamas can't wipe out Israel by itself, so what? They are terrorists threatening Jewish people with random murder, arguably just one more in a very, very long historical line of such people.

Even if you don't think Israel should feel under existential threat, it's not hard to see why many in Israel might.
 
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