Imagine flexing about your "reaction score" 
Jadon Sancho (Out)
- Thread starter Samid
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Hey! This isn't a transfer thread!
I've been duped!
I've been duped!
Here is the issue. Sancho was part of the squad. He has friends there. There are likely to be several teammates who have seen and know more than us and who may empathise with his grievance that he had been hung out to dry and banished to the reserves.
As I said when the incident initially happened, Ten Hag’s heavy-handed management of the situation is likely to backfire and I have been proven correct. Leaks have come out about squad morale being low, unhappy with the how Sancho was treated and just generally unhappy with Ten Hag.
When a manager, especially one that doesn’t have much credit in the bank, starts throwing a player or players under the bus it is certainly an eyebrow raiser. If I was Sancho’s teammate I would be thinking “well, if I did it to Jadon he might do it to me”.
Taking this issue to the national press is humiliation. In a normal workplace you wouldn’t accept your boss attacking your professional character to an external stakeholder or a client. In fact, you’d have every right to go to HR and your boss would be likely to be reprimanded.
As I keep asking again and again but to not answer: if Sancho is this petulant lazy brat that people are saying he is, and it has been established for a long time, Ten Hag had three windows to sell him - why didn’t he do this?
You’re fine but the other guy knows what he has to do to get a response back from me.
I’d be grateful if mods send him back to the Newbies until he deletes his disrespectful posts and apologises. Then he might be available to be selected for a response.
At Redcafe you have to reach a certain level everyday, in the main forums.
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Couple of questions: can you quote where you said this? What's the actual indication about squad morale being low, apart from unverifiable leaks? (could be Sancho himself for all we know) And same for the squad being unhappy with Ten Hag? (it has to be a significant group of players, otherwise you can't make this point)
Humiliation and attacking professional character - could you remind us what Ten Hag said exactly? His actual words, I mean.
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Everyone sympathized with Sancho with this issues.Ihave the same reaction score as you and you’ve had a head start of 8 years and 29,000 posts.
Maybe that’s because your primary contributions are regularly insulting posters who have different football opinions to you.
Ok?
It’s all made up, isn’t it? The racial abuse, the friends and family dying, the having to deactivate from social media etc. etc.?
Ironic you say that I’m inventing things to suit my argument but you say: “he’s an unprofessional tit who thinks he’s above working hard”.
I am sure all the players like all human being have been through rough times. But ETH gave him 2 months out of the spotlight. At least he could have shown some effort and repay this favor instead of over rewcting. ETH probably did not expect that Sancho would immediately score 20 goals and have 30 assists, but at least show up on time in training or put some effort.
Thanksfully, Sancho has earned money for 3 generations, but we are not obliged to keep him for vibes for ever because he was racially abused by some dick heads. Sancho should leave ASAP no matter if ETH stays or not.
This wimp bussing off might have been the best for Garnacho cementing his place. Now if he brings in any decent change in transfer fees, it can be reinvested in a backup striker instead of the French sulk.
Yep, that last bit is always conveniently left out/forgotten and rephrased as Sancho was “publicly humiliated” when in fact EtH was asked a question about why sancho wasn’t in the squad and he said because others did better at training that week….mightily humiliated, of course. Similar to how all the professional managers on here know that each personality requires different kinds of management techniques….you know, like instead of tough love, you give someone a full-pay 3-month vacation off from work for you to try and sort their head out….oh wait, EtH actually tried that approach with Sancho as well. Yeah, clearly EtH never rated him, had an agenda etc etc.
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What exactly do you feel was heavy handed about Ten Hags management?
He also didn’t really take the issue to the press. The exact transcript is:
Reporter: Sancho and McTominay weren’t here are they both injured as well?
Ten Hag “Errr no Scott is ill and Jadon on the performance of his training we didn’t select him.”
Sancho made it a more public issue with his subsequent post on social media.
I do not post much but seeing some of the posts in this thread made me inhale my vape down the wrong pipe and I have now been coughing for two minutes. Thanks guys! Bragging about how many reactions you've had as a way of validating your footballing opinions.
I have 47 posts and 7 reactions! That gives me a post/reactions ration of 6.71!
@BenitoSTARR bow down before your new overlord!
I have 47 posts and 7 reactions! That gives me a post/reactions ration of 6.71!
@BenitoSTARR bow down before your new overlord!
I can't even read that response without tweeting negative things about my employer, it was that triggering.
2026 with option of one more year.
I guess it is also a question of who blinks first. I assume he think it is an issue to not play or train for two more years. And I assume it hurts the value of his next contract. Not to mention the value of his image rights.
I understand his base salary is around £250k a week. The bonuses must be well out of reach for him when he is not playing.
Is this actually something he has to assume? He can reasonably hope to get a new chance when the next coach arrives and that may not take 2 years.
It’s ppR
… no wonder you’re still a newbie.jk love your vibe
443.7 ppR you’re 1.77 times better than me but that’s close enough that we’re allowed to interact but I think we have a 3 post limit of interactions per day so I can’t reply to anything else till tomorrow and nor can you or we’ll get an infraction.
Thoughts and prayers with you hun x
Not even double digits. It’s actually illegal to read their posts or quote them. I’d delete it quickly before you get an OVERreactioninfraction.
Thanks babe x
Here’s an example from November 3: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/erik-ten-hag-vs-sancho.479047/post-31295593
Pretty sure I’ve made this point several times (about the impact of ETH’s handling of the situation on squad morale).
If those leaks are unverifiable then neither are the briefings to the press about Sancho being unprofessional, or Ten Hag’s initial statement about Sancho not reaching the level in training.
Neither sides of the argument have a smoking gun so to speak but the anti-Sancho side seems to speak of him being lazy and what have you as if it is a factual reality.
Be honest - what would yourself and rest of the football world interpret from this comment? The damage has already been done. The overwhelming view is that Sancho is lazy and doesn’t apply himself.
If your boss called you out like that would you just accept it and let the narrative stick or would you refute it instantly?
The way I see it - Ten Hag took the issue to the public and Sancho responded publicly. Ten Hag could have easily said Sancho was left out for tactical reasons or because he was ill or something like that and very quietly just kept him on the bench.
Those quotes about Sancho's behaviour are directly attributable to people who worked with Sancho and various videos. What you do with those is still dependent on interpretation, but the basis is verifiable. Those comments about squad morale and opinions, however, are all anonymous leaks. We don't know who said them or what they really refer to, or what the actual magnitude of the relevant issues is. Not quite the same level of evidence.
Be honest, would anyone have batted an eyelid about Ten Hag's comment if Sancho hadn't done that twitter post? The only reason this overwhelming view now exists, is because he followed up that way and thus triggered the whole discussion about his behaviour etc.
Matic publicly stated since that Sancho was regularly late to training during their time together. So it would appear there are those who can corroborate publicly the view of Sancho not being a model professional at least in time keeping.
Right to answer your question to me. I’d interpret it as other players either worked harder or performed better in training. I genuinely do not believe it is a harmful or disrespectful comment. It just implies someone else deserved a chance to play in my view.
Ten Hag has to answer questions fielded by the press. He did so and did not openly criticise or demean. Sancho has escalated what could have been a “boss can I have a word” kind of chat into “my boss is a liar”.
I agree Ten Hag could have said other things and I also agree had he lied and said he’s ill or whatever it may have been avoided but who is to say Sancho wouldn’t have been annoyed by the suggestion he’s not a tactical fit or he was “ill”.
Ultimately if you are someone offended by the comment I think it’s only a matter of time before something like this happens. I don’t think someone jumping on that comment has the kind of mentality to be successful at a club like United where there is so much media scrutiny.
How others may perceive it I can’t say with certainty but I think him saying what he said is ok. The reason being he’s in a very public position all footballers are and so comparisons with my boss making the same comment aren’t quite the same. I’m sure you see this if we are both being honest with each other which I believe we are.
It’s not the same burden of proof and the balance of power plays a role in why some statements are attributable to a quoted source and some are anonymous.
A manager coming out to speak about a player is not unusual albeit not the best idea. It’s also fairly normal for managers to say something along the lines of “the boys weren’t at it today”.
But how often do you see a player openly calling out their manager while the latter is still sitting in post and picking the team? Doing so might even constitute a breach of contract. If the smoking gun you’re looking for is an active player calling out Ten Hag openly, then this is an unrealistically high burden of proof unless it’s a Cristiano case. Did anyone from our squad openly call out Moyes, LvG or Jose even though it was quite clear that they had alienated the dressing room? Hell, even Sancho hasn’t said a thing since the statement and there is likely to be a lot more he hasn’t revealed.
Either way, the outlets reporting those leaks are reputable in their own right and a journalist is unlikely to put their professional neck on the line that by publishing fake news. I suggest the fact that those leaks were published at around the same time by different outlets and journalists indicates that there was some kind of briefing.
With regards to the question of would anyone have batted an eyelid…not sure if you’ve seen the memes flying around about Sancho even before the incident likening him to Troopz and jokes about him being a roadman who smokes weed and what have you…you can’t rule out that this played a role in his mental issues as reflected in the total deactivation of his IG account. I’m sure Sancho would have sought more protection from his manager who is likely to know more about Sancho’s situation. Not to mention how big United are and how we always generate headlines and clicks. It was unwise from Ten Hag to make his comment given both Sancho’s situation and the negative attention is brought.
If you think the player is a liability, you can bench him or give him garbage minutes as you had done already. But to go public like this? Totally unnecessary.
Some people is childish and I think Sancho is one of them. ETH has given him every opportunity to be the XI but his performance is average. Based on Sancho's character, I think he is probably very happy during training, alot of laughing and smiling. I think Erik isn't too happy about a players that cost us more than 70 million pound, struggling to make an impact in any game yet having fun during training. He made a decision to drop him citing training performance and obviously Sancho isn't happy about it. There will be no return of Sancho unless Erik is sack. I am quite sure Sancho will leave in January either thru' a sales or a loan. He is no longer welcome at United as long as Erik is still here.
@THE ZOL can't respond anymore, but to follow up on this bit: it also has to be kept in mind that Ten Hag and Sancho hadn't only just met each other in September. They had been working together for over a year already (early summer 2022), and must have had a lot of conversations between them during that time, especially given that Ten Hag gave Sancho that leave of absence, and then clearly cared about bringing him back into games carefully afterwards.
Given all that background, it's all the more surprising that Sancho reacted like he did to that (relatively) small comment by Ten Hag at the press conference. You'd have to wonder what's behind that. Had they been having difficult discussions already and was this a kind of public culmination of those? Did other things factor into Sancho deciding to send that tweet? And so on and so forth.
We don't know any of that, of course, but I just can't think of a scenario here in which blame for the issue primarily falls on Ten Hag. I'm not saying he's blameless, but I'll maintain that totally taking Sancho's side in all this seems like an implausible stretch to me. (Or certainly in how this started out. What could have been in the meantime to resolves things quicker is anyone's guess and a separate issue.)
I am just going to give my answer to your question regarding Erik selling Sancho in previous windows.
We paid huge money for the young man and that was based on his stats he was racking up at Dortmund at such a young age and possibly that he was English as well.
While he has shown glimpses of that talent (mainly in preseason) it has been far from being regular in the season proper in the Premier League or any competition that Utd have taken part in and because of that his value was plummeting.
Manchester United know now that the only way they can rescue the situation is by sticking with Sancho (as any club should) and really work with him to get him to perform at a high level when his technique will come into play and then the team and himself will benefit.
I think it is so obvious (as I have stated numerous times in other threads) that he does not have the workrate or intensity to have a big impact on games and I could only see him playing 15-20min cameos against tired opposition.
Maybe Erik just got sick of Sancho not putting in on the training field and that has finally come to a head and now the club has to finally realize it is going to take the massive loss financially on a young man that has just failed to reach the levels to make it at a top club in England.
Accidentally clicked on this monstrosity of a thread and laughed my ass off. Why are people comparing reaction scores?
Oh you think you can just waltz in here and laugh at THE ZOL?!Accidentally clicked on this monstrosity of a thread and laughed my ass off. Why are people comparing reaction scores?
Think again buddy!
Your posts aren't anywhere near the required level to even receive a moments glance from a being like him, nevermind a response.
The less said about your reaction scores the better, frankly it's embarrassing they even keep you around on these forums. I can only assume they're getting tax breaks for charity.
Go lay some foundations, build a fecking wall and then come back and try again.
Great question but one I wouldn’t expect answers to any time soon.
The major point that people tend to just pass over is that Sancho hasn’t been removed from the squad for this period due to the things people are upset over.
He was dropped from a match day squad. Had he simply not reacted to EtH’s comments he’d have been straight back on the bench getting his 20 minutes a game. Sancho playing xBox & turning up late [how many times nobody on here actually knows] were not the reasons for this prolonged issue.
What we have seen is EtH try a different tact to light a fire under Sancho & it backfired. He is not being punished because he turned up late for training or playing on the xBox, the EtH comments made it clear he didn’t like how he trained that week so he left him out for a game.
What this situation has highlighted is the lack of leadership throughout the club. This situation needed a strong mediator to sit them both down & tell them to stop being stubborn. Tell Sancho to say ‘sorry’ cause. . . aesthetics & tell EtH he’s already short on players, with his own signings stinking up the place whilst the team is hardly setting the world alight. Get on an amicable footing then look at it in January.
This situation is completely avoidable & on both sides could have been halted. The plan would never have been to have Sancho training with the u18s getting changed in a separate changing room so whatever it was EtH planned it backfired & Sancho showed us what we all knew already, he’s sensitive.
Logical assumption would be things piled up for this decision rather than it was because of single incident
I have heard, Sancho was disappointed with that "holland stint".
More I think about that, it was wierd. You don't send player from the team. They are training and playing games a and you are send in the corner of the class.
I was pole vaulter, and whener my trainer send me to train alone, it was mentaly tough.
More I think about that, it was wierd. You don't send player from the team. They are training and playing games a and you are send in the corner of the class.
I was pole vaulter, and whener my trainer send me to train alone, it was mentaly tough.
The fact that he couldn't be bothered to keep his pride on one side to focus on earning a place in the Euros squad says a lot. He could've proven Ten Hag wrong on the pitch (or training ground) and then demanded a move in January. Another one whose international career is fading since his move to United.
Honestly don't know what people wanted ETH to do/say.
He was asked a question during an interview about Sancho not being selected.
His options were 1 - refuse to answer, 2 - lie, or 3 - tell the truth.
If he'd lied, it opens the door for Sancho to refute the lie, just like Rooney did when Ferguson said he was injured. So if he'd said Sancho was injured or ill, Sancho could have easily came straight out and said that's not true, I'm fine, available and want to play. And then a shitstorm ensues.
If he'd refused to answer, it opens the door for the press and fans to speculate and spread rumours, something he obviously wanted to avoid. It starts a huge "What has happened between Sancho and Ten Hag!" if he'd flat refused to answer.
So, he told the truth. In his opinion, Sancho hasn't been performing well enough in training and so he picked what he believed to be the strongest and most deserving 11. How this is such an insult to Sancho is truly beyond me. What an actual adult would have done is said nothing in public, had a catch up in private with his boss and said "I disagree that I've not trained well enough, but I'm going to put my head down, work my socks off and force you to pick me".
If you're siding with Sancho you seriously need to have a word with yourself.
He was asked a question during an interview about Sancho not being selected.
His options were 1 - refuse to answer, 2 - lie, or 3 - tell the truth.
If he'd lied, it opens the door for Sancho to refute the lie, just like Rooney did when Ferguson said he was injured. So if he'd said Sancho was injured or ill, Sancho could have easily came straight out and said that's not true, I'm fine, available and want to play. And then a shitstorm ensues.
If he'd refused to answer, it opens the door for the press and fans to speculate and spread rumours, something he obviously wanted to avoid. It starts a huge "What has happened between Sancho and Ten Hag!" if he'd flat refused to answer.
So, he told the truth. In his opinion, Sancho hasn't been performing well enough in training and so he picked what he believed to be the strongest and most deserving 11. How this is such an insult to Sancho is truly beyond me. What an actual adult would have done is said nothing in public, had a catch up in private with his boss and said "I disagree that I've not trained well enough, but I'm going to put my head down, work my socks off and force you to pick me".
If you're siding with Sancho you seriously need to have a word with yourself.
Exactly, spot on!
For anyone asking why we didn't 'just sell him' during the last window or two: selling a player requires a buyer who is willing meet our asking price and match his wages. If we could 'just sell' players there would be a lot less dross in our squad.
Well that one is simple, who do you think would have been willing to spend £50m and £13m p/a on the United version of Jadon Sancho? It's not like we received bids and turned them down, it's it?
The way Ten Hag has dug in its clear that this goes beyond a tweet or a post on Instagram. That was the final straw and ETH came down hard. At the best of times Sancho is a waste so I am not at all bothered that he is out because let's face it, in this challenging season what would he have done?
1349.65 ppR and he comes into this thread expecting to be spoken to… pfft.Accidentally clicked on this monstrosity of a thread and laughed my ass off. Why are people comparing reaction scores?
I’m not sure what you think you’re revealing in this post. Did you actually read what I wrote or are you another one of those who sees any balance as outright defence of Sancho.
I’m not privy to whether we received bids & turned them down tbh, highly doubt teams that would want him now could stump up for the astronomical wage.
Unfortunately this club has seen it’s fair share of Sancho type signings, talents who then go on to disappoint recently.
The fact is the last straw for EtH was Sancho’s tweet, not his underwhelming time on the pitch. You can talk about EtH coming down hard all you like, he clearly was willing to let Sancho play again. Yes it would have been a culmination of a few things but had EtH not said anything post game, people would just be watching Sancho’s 20 minutes a week in disappointment. There’s no need to vilify Sancho beyond his performances, he’s been shite.
I’m not particularly in disagreement with what you’re saying.
It's not a great question as there were loads of reports we were willing to sell Sancho in the summer. Like with nearly every other player we wanted sold, it didn't happen, so Ten Hag was probably told he had to use him and the same issues have cropped up again.
I am simply saying no one wanted him because even if we are both not privy to the inner goings on at the club we all know that West Ham wanted Harry and Scott, for example.
I agreed with the rest of that initial post that it was incumbent on the senior guys at United ie Murtough and Arnold to realize the wider implications of the row on the team and step in to repair the working relationship. But no one did and what I am vehemently against is for ETH to be the one that comes down because that will further weaken him in the dressing room. It's on Sancho to come back and clearly he doesn't care enough about playing for us to do the necessary.
I’m not sure the new coach will appreciate Sancho’s behavior in all this.
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