Signing him @CM are we?
Who replaces Ten Hag?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
An obvious issue with that line of thinking is that Alonso might not even be a realistic option for Manchester United, by that point (and that is assuming he is a realistic option for Manchester United this summer). Might end up like the Håland situation at RB Salzburg; by the time he had shed his flavor of the season reputation and proven himself with Borussia Dortmund, Manchester United were, for all intents and purposes, out of the running for his signature — as we were no longer in the elite rung of club football with regard to competitiveness and sporting excellence.
- Real Madrid: according to official communique, Ancelotti has extended for only 2 seasons, and is not going to get any younger. A clear landing spot if they decide to move on from him.
- Manchester City: Guardiola might be gone next summer (that's the hope, anyway!)
https://theathletic.com/4545371/2023/05/23/pep-guardiola-manchester-city-contract/
- Bayern Munich: possibly, if he outperforms Tuchel (who is contracted till 2025) in the Bundesliga?
- Liverpool: Klopp seems to have a job for life with the club, but things can change in professional sports, and his contract expires in 2026.
Sometimes you are presented a fleetingly small window of opportunity, and you have to act decisively — or live to rue the day. If the decision-makers at the club are of the belief that they can implement an appropriately robust support structure and Alonso possesses the leadership ability, tactical nous, eye for detail, communication skills, and strength of character to emerge as a good manager at the top level, better to bring him into the fold this summer (when the competition for his signature might be muted) and grant him the room to evolve while the burden of expectatons is relatively low (and let him develop in conjuction with the refurbished sporting venture, a bit like Arteta at Arsenal if everything goes to plan).
Mind you, he would be taking a massive risk with United (just as we would be taking a massive risk with him). It's a club where multiple managers have reached their nadirs in the post-Ferguson era, there's no assurance, even with the co-ownership model, that we would create a good enough environment for him and make fairly optimized footballing decisions (while the elite clubs do), his reputation at Liverpool will definitely take a battering if he gets into bed with their bête noire, an so forth.
But you have to take these calculated risks (plotted against potential rewards), from time to time. If he underwhelms and isn't part of the solution (or worse, crashes and burns), you move on, simples (without a whole lot of disruption as a good Director of Football (hopefully, he is appointed soon) would act as a stabilizing core for the organization). Managers who are tried-and-tested at the highest of levels and veritable guarantors of success are impossibly rare commodities and scarcely available in a ripe-for-the-picking sense (and with them too, your timing has to be absolutely spot on, with no margin for error, or someone else will steal a march on you — which is precisely what happened with Guardiola and Klopp, who ended up joining our domestic rivals instead of us, and defined an era for those clubs (and in turn United, whose pre-eminance in Premier League football was dismantled in record time)).
I feel getting the next appointment right will be pivotal. We could get back on track or be lost like Milan. The next guy is THE ONE.
Would probably still be better in CM now than all of ours except Cas
There's no such thing as THE ONE. Managers will come and go, hopefully win stuff along the way. There is not ever going to be a 'one' who magically fixes things and makes us the best team in england for 20 years. The landscape in England is not set up for that nor is modern football set up for that. Milan themselves, as you have mentioned, have won a league title since we last won one, but I don't think anyone is calling Pioli "The one". We need to get away from this mindset.
I didn't mean THE ONE as in a magician. I meant if we don't get the appointment right, we will spiral further down, maybe to a point of no return.
The next man in has to play attacking football and win at least one major trophy. This is imperative.
Nagelsmann and Flick are far worse than ten Hag and Ancelotti just renewed his contract.
As much as I would love Alonso to take over, I highly doubt he'd leave Leverkusen in the middle of the season. And with Liverpool, Bayern and Real he has 3 possible future suitors that could be much more interesting than us. He could just decide to stay for until Ancelotti's or Klopp's contract ends in 2026 or Bayern sack Tuchel in 2025. Leverkusen is a really interesting project and I'm not sure he'd find the chaos here more attractive, not to mention his Liverpool past. Let's be honest the chances are really slim to get him.
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What now?
These interim manager things do not work for us as manutd. Ole and then ragnick where just bad as managers. I think ETH deserves until the end if the season and then we judge
I don’t think so. If the next guy fails then we try again. As long as the money keeps coming in (And it will, even if we fall behind where we should be, the baseline will be healthy for a long time to come because of the club’s name) then we keep trying until someone wins something, then when they decline we keep trying again.
Out of them i think my top choice would be De Zerbi. Alonso would never join us, he has ties to Liverpool and will probably wait for that job or Bayern or Madrid like others have mentioned. Amorim would be too much of a risk. Massive jump to the premier league from the Portuguese league. Ancelotti has signed a contract. Not sure about the German managers and don’t think Enrique would leave PSG for us.
Big Sam
Far better than both Klopp & Pep put together
? Who, in their right mind, said that?Why are some automatically assuming Alonso wouldn’t want to manage us due to his Liverpool ties? We’re still one of the biggest names in football and it’s not like he was a Liverpool academy product and debatably, even a legend.
If the timing is right, I’m sure we’re in with a chance. It would also be notoriously difficult to follow in the footsteps of someone like Klopp IMO & their squad isn’t necessarily better than ours - that’s subjective and they have some ageing key players.
Ultimately, I think it will come down to timing for him (available top jobs when he feels he’s ready to take the next step) and forward/succession planning. Anyway, will be interesting to follow his trajectory.
If the timing is right, I’m sure we’re in with a chance. It would also be notoriously difficult to follow in the footsteps of someone like Klopp IMO & their squad isn’t necessarily better than ours - that’s subjective and they have some ageing key players.
Ultimately, I think it will come down to timing for him (available top jobs when he feels he’s ready to take the next step) and forward/succession planning. Anyway, will be interesting to follow his trajectory.
Sure they did.
I'd take Xabi over Erik without question if he's able to implement his philosophy in another league. I think the Bundesliga produces a very good crop of managers, his team is very dynamic and punching above their weight domestically.
Reports are that he has a release clause only valid for Liverpool, Real and Bayern, so his ex clubs. The fact that he negotiated only for these shows that you would have less of a chance than them.
You don't need to be academy or a legend to be fair. Just be with the club long enough for strong affiliation, which he certainly has.
Im sure chicharito, berbatov, Rafael etc. Wouldn't manage Liverpool if they were huge managerial talents.
I really doubt this. Forgetting the example of Sir Matt Busby who captained City and Liverpool and then became our manager, there are many other examples.
Benitez was a bigger legend for Liverpool and then he managed Chelsea and Everton. Owen played for United after playing for Liverpool. Then of course, in other leagues (Conte winning titles with both Juve and Inter, Ancelotti coaching Milan and Juve, Figo and Luis Enrique playing for Real and Barca etc).
I think that rivalries are much more when it comes to fans rather than players/managers. While obviously some rivalry exists (especially at the heat of the moment), for them it is primarily a job. Whoever gives most money and a good environment of success has a shot of getting the most talented players/managers. If we double Alonso’s salary and showing him a good project, then we will definitely have a good chance of getting him despite that he played for Liverpool…15 years ago.
Sir Matt Bubsy is an anomaly from a completely different time.
Chelsea weren't remotely the same rival as United (it would be like Alonso coming in to replace Arteta which is a lot more plausible). When he took the Everton job he was pretty desperate. Alonso will have a list of clubs to choose from once he's done at this rate.
Agree with this. Loyalty is nice in theory, but money and career prospects talk.....for most people. I think it would be different if Alonso was a born and bred scouser.
George Graham. Arsenal legend. Went on to manage Spurs.
Again, not as heavy a rivalry as Liverpool and Man United. Also a very different time.
George Graham was also a prick wasn't he
I truly believe that if we offer Gerard 10m/year and a good environment of success, he would manage us. Maybe half that for Carragher.
As you said money and career prospects talk. These ultra-successful people want money and chances of winning silverware. Offer this and they will coach their biggest rivals.
No, he wouldn't.
Maybe, I know he was a mate of SAF.Again, not as heavy a rivalry as Liverpool and Man United. Also a very different time.
George Graham was also a prick wasn't he
I think loyalty in football is exaggerated, though. Not for everyone, there are exceptions.
To an extent, but certain rivalries are too big and if a player is well invested in one of the clubs you will rarely ever see a switch. Alonso is one of them for Liverpool.
Moreover players have to be a certain mindset to want to turn. For example Figo wanted the limelight and the money a lot, but you won't see much other examples. Closest we had was Heinze and that didn't even happen.
When you have two massive teams being bitter rivals it just doesn't happen. And our rivalry with Liverpool is the biggest in England.
I believe Alonso would manage United. I'm not saying I want him to, though. We'll agree to disagree.
Maybe, as a manager perhaps he draws a line on player allegiance and starts fresh. Don't see it though, I reckon he has the same view about us that Poch does about Barcelona or Zidane has about PSG.
It is a pretty huge rivalry though.Again, not as heavy a rivalry as Liverpool and Man United. Also a very different time.
George Graham was also a prick wasn't he
But you ignored others. Juve-Inter is the biggest rivalry in Italy and Conte managed both, winning titles in both. Figo captained Barca and then went to play for Real. Luis Enrique played for Real and then went to captain and coach Barcelona. Eriksson managed Roma and Lazio, which have a pathological level of hatred for each other. Antic managed Real and its 2 biggest rivals, Barcelona and Atletico. Leonardo managed Milan and then Inter. Pioli managed Inter and then went to win a title with Milan. Sarri managed Napoli and Juve. Jesus managed Sporting and Benfica. McLeish managed Aston Villa and Birmingham, as did Steve Bruce. Redknapp managed Portsmouth and S’oton. Allardyce managed Newcastle and Sunderland. And I already mentioned Benitez managing Liverpool and Everton.
Obviously there are exceptions, Klopp turned down Bayern a couple of times but even then, it was probably a matter of timing.
Heinze didn’t join Liverpool cause we blocked the transfer. If he was a free agent he would have joined them. We saw that players do not have trouble making the switch if they can do it (Ince and Owen).
Alonso cannot be blocked from joining United. Neither can Gerrard or Neville with Liverpool.
You're naming a couple rivalries that aren't really that big. All serie a clubs are broadly merry go rounds, you'd struggle to find many examples of die hard loyalists there like Totti, in comparison to the ones here.
Figo was essentially a mercenary and his documentary made it quite obvious. I don't think Alonso is that.
Poch said he'd never manage Barca, Zidane was reportedly cold on PSG multiple times because of his Marseille affiliation.
The other examples you named are not even in the same sphere of rivalry as the two biggest clubs in the Premier League. I just don't see it. If it was say, Jermane Defoe becoming a top manager and taking a Chelsea job then sure. But that's not the same as a Liverpool arguable legend, CL winner for them, taking a role at United at a time where Liverpool are a direct title competitor.
No, they can't. But the ilk of a player to turn like that is not exactly one that I identify Alonso as. Barring an anomaly, they tend to be narcissists or mercenaries. Like Owen or Figo.
Alonso strikes me as a Poch or Zidane type when it comes to club management. That said, if he chooses to draw a line on his playing career and segregate it from managerial, then sure. But I don't see that with him. I also think he is arguably a Liverpool legend, not some squad player or a guy who had a good run for a couple seasons. That makes it even more hard, because he is etched in one of their finest moments in history. He played with them for 5 years which isn't exact a short time, and may have even captained them on occasion (?).
Aargh yeah, wasn’t aware of the clause so that seems a decent enough pointer towards his ambition etc. Thanks Stefan
Yep, true enough. As above, it seems he has a clear enough plan managing in each of the big leagues.
Twelve Hag.
(I imagine someone has already suggested eleven).
(I imagine someone has already suggested eleven).
We have been in decline for some time now. If the next manager is again a false dawn I don't know how much of a beating our brand will take. We are already a banter club, few more years of this will lead us into wilderness. Changing managers while maintaining a moderate level of success is fine by me, but we haven't been doing that.
Even if you forget the Liverpool thing, Alonso is presumably an ambitious, young manager and his stock is quite high at the moment. Even with the new investment about to come, United would represent a huge gamble for a manager like him who can afford to sit tight until a more appealing job comes along.
United are still a volatile club. It's not the same proposition taking over United now as it was a decade ago. If Alonso has ambitions to manage Bayern, Madrid or Liverpool in the future, why would he want to risk his reputation managing a club that has seen 5 or 6 managers fail in succession when he could ignore all that aggro and the headache of pissing off the supporters of a club he used to play for? If he does have any ambitions to manage Liverpool in the future, taking the United job would effectively rule him out of that as well.
Our banter Club despite being irrelevant in Champions league and Pl more or less in last ten years is still amongst top 3 Clubs in terms of commercial revenue if you exclude State backed Clubs , I think United's Brand would just survive fine .
Yeah, all good points you’re making, of course. I think we offer a lot of positives though, as well. Get us competing back at the top end of football, is also a very enticing prospect versus going to clubs (especially madrid and bayern) with little job security (if such a thing exists in football) and where “winning the league” is considered norm and not winning the UCL almost a failure. Liverpool is a different prospect but following in Klopps footsteps is a big one - for any manager and them being able to spend money and compete with the rest to maintain a competitive squad is also a challenge, especially with oil clubs around. But alas, I wasn’t aware of the clause in his contract, as mentioned by @stefan92 ….so I can understand why it makes more sense now why posters are not convinced he’d want to join us.
We may have ‘the one’ already. How can you tell he’s not; we handed him a broken squad which he is trying to play modern football with.
Klopp and Arteta didn’t kick off right away right?
If we got a new manager in January, you may be screaming for another in 18 months. I prefer letting Ten Hag continue and see what progress he makes.
Klopp and Arteta didn’t kick off right away right?
If we got a new manager in January, you may be screaming for another in 18 months. I prefer letting Ten Hag continue and see what progress he makes.