If biden does the right thing americans will not vote for him apparently.
Israel-Palestine | Genocide in Gaza
- Thread starter esmufc07
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I'm not sure what Israels end goal is here tbh. I think they probably want a ceasefire and the hostages but weren't expecting Egypt to be so against them taking the crossing. For all the talk about Iran, Egypt is by far the biggest threat to Israel.
Biden, Trump, Obama, Bush, Clinton. Despite the change in US government their foreign policy remains the same. Especially when it comes to Israel and that won't change anytime soon.
Nah. Most Americans want a ceasefire. In fact, he's tanking in the polls and this is one of the issue.
I still can't believe that out of the hundreds of millions of America they only have two aholes as serious presidential candidates in Biden and Trump. How the hell has it come to that?
My question is why?
They almost prioritise Israel over the United States. Biden certainly does. It is bizarre the lengths they are going to, even spitting in the face of international law. Well I never want to hear them or most Western governments ever again talk about human rights or start accusing other countries of terrorism because I won't be listening. Bloody cruel hypocrites.
If you list the biggest cnut from that list, Biden comes top, then Bush, then Obama, then Clinton. Trump is the the least biggest cnut. Would you believe it. Imho of course.
In short - lobbying. AIPAC for one are incredibly powerful and too embedded within the US political system. The media is obviously overwhelmingly pro-Israeli, and then you have a base of Evangelical nutters who are convinced that Israel's ascension will speed up the rapture. Its considered mainstream political suicide to be critical of Israel. Its a mob/cartel mentality.
I don't think that's the case, Egypt's threat has been neutralized for 46 years and that's not going to change anytime soon.
The big reason is it’s a strategic ally in part of the world where the US is hated. Also Biden is the most pro Israel politician in the US. He’s so bad even Israeli right wingers have told him to calm down in the past.
They basically don't see any Palestinian over 10 as a child.
Was just about to reply and saw @Kaos post which basically explains it. Then you have people in congress that are Jews and are obviously sensitive to the Israeli cause. Biden has basically got Blinken (who's Jewish) running around doing damage control on behalf of Israel.
I disagree. There's a reason why Israel have decided against taking Philadelphi corridor. Sisi is irrelevant if that happens, the generals will make sure of that.
This line of thinking is exactly the kind of slippery slope that leads to make [insert whichever group one dislikes, disapproves, and/or is afraid of] a legitimate target for collective punishment and even genocide, so I'd be careful with that.
People aren't inherently bad or evil, bar a few exceptions. Since its inception, there's been an enormous amount of propaganda and indoctrination in Israel, starting with schools, to instil and cultivate the idea that there is no Palestine to speak of and there can be no peace with the Palestinians. For example, it is forbidden to teach or talk about the Nakba in schools. The Arabs in general and Palestinians in particular can never be trusted and will throttle you if given the slightest chance. So better keep your boot on their throat, no matter what.
Hence the pathological need to demonstrate might in order to deter any real or perceived hostile intent from the neighbours, especially the one that you currently occupy and intend to absorb in the long-term. If you add to that the millenia long traumatic past of the Jews and the countless persecutions they've been victim of, it's easy to understand where they coming from and how they felt after 10/7. To be clear, understanding is not justifying. However you can't solve a problem without coming to grips with what caused it in the first place.
One also has to take into account that Israel is a very young country, much like the Arab ones. What's happening in Israel/Palestine really isn't new if we roll back the centuries. The birth of a nation is a struggle, seldom bloodless or without extreme prejudice towards a group or even an entire population, accompanied by a thorough rewriting of History by the victor. It literally is a do or die, for both Palestine and Israel.
That's why I personally think that without a third party jumping in, one of the two sides is condemned to disappear, one way or or another. Given the current balance of power, the answer is pretty much obvious. The only question is are we going to sit and watch or eventually do something about it?
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Since when do most americans get what they want?
Bad treatment of the Palestinians pre dates Netanyahu by a long time. This hate of Palestinians is embedded in Israeli's.
People will argue it's "bad optics" for Biden to be tough on Israel after the worst massacre in Israel's history. I've seen that argument made elsewhere (Reddit and such).
But the fundamental problem here is that October 7th in itself is not an isolated event. It's another round of violence in a conflict that's been going on for decades and one of the two sides is longing for a state of their own. As long as Israel actively tries to prevent a Palestinian state, we'll have more violence in the future. That's not to justify October 7th (obviously) but the problem here is bigger than October 7th. The problem is the Palestinians don't have their own state and are dominated and mistreated heavily by Israel.
The EU won't solve this. Russia won't solve it. China won't solve it. Iran won't solve it. American leadership is needed here.
But the fundamental problem here is that October 7th in itself is not an isolated event. It's another round of violence in a conflict that's been going on for decades and one of the two sides is longing for a state of their own. As long as Israel actively tries to prevent a Palestinian state, we'll have more violence in the future. That's not to justify October 7th (obviously) but the problem here is bigger than October 7th. The problem is the Palestinians don't have their own state and are dominated and mistreated heavily by Israel.
The EU won't solve this. Russia won't solve it. China won't solve it. Iran won't solve it. American leadership is needed here.
You can say the same about voters in the US (voting for Trump) or the UK (voting for Brexit).
Unfornuately many people are... idiots?
I don't know where this one goes as Netanyahu is talking, as usual, in two voices: What he says publically is no to releasing thousands of terrorists or to agreeing a ceasefire. And yet, obviously, that is the only deal on the table and Israel clearly isn't walking away from it.
I'm not sure he's got the votes in his govenment to agree to such a deal though. And I'm not sure he actually wants the deal, as it might cost him his govenment. I don't know how he's going to maneuver this one.
I've never disputed that, on the contrary.
Occupation degrades the offender as much as the offended. Hate is born of fear and ignorance, and both have been carefully instilled for decades.
@Kaos @Sweet Square
Thanks for the replies. I'm aware of the situation with AIPAC etc, but I'm still puzzled, seeing as more people are now able to see what is going on. Why would you then continue the same policy? Do they really think we're going to forget their complicity in this genocide? The IDF have been filming themselves committing criminal acts and US and their allies really believe that people aren't seeing this and being revolted by their actions?
I think with all the crimes being committed for all to see, that any other situation and they would have reversed course, if even just to save face for a while, but they are doubling down on their support so I have to believe there is something else going on that we just can't see. Israel depends on the US, there is no way, the United States can't reign them in if they wanted to and still maintain a relationship with them because like what is Israel going to do without all that US taxpayer money?
Thanks for the replies. I'm aware of the situation with AIPAC etc, but I'm still puzzled, seeing as more people are now able to see what is going on. Why would you then continue the same policy? Do they really think we're going to forget their complicity in this genocide? The IDF have been filming themselves committing criminal acts and US and their allies really believe that people aren't seeing this and being revolted by their actions?
I think with all the crimes being committed for all to see, that any other situation and they would have reversed course, if even just to save face for a while, but they are doubling down on their support so I have to believe there is something else going on that we just can't see. Israel depends on the US, there is no way, the United States can't reign them in if they wanted to and still maintain a relationship with them because like what is Israel going to do without all that US taxpayer money?
And the women and children detained by the Israeli government? Is he saying no to releasing them too?
Children Amir, what the hell are they doing with children in prison? I have seen footage of them with a 4 year old boy as well. Is he classified as a terrorist too?
How have you come to that conclusion?
That will only happen when the US finally gets rid of all lobbies and has a president able to look past their next mandate.
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The Hebrew tweet translated:
Netayanhu and his cohorts word of commitment don't mean a thing
Saudi Arabia aint shit if they go ahead on this basis. Feel even worse for the Palestinians as no one wants to help it seems.. (sigh)Unfortunately they're even here in England as well...
All these politicians are just full of shit.
I don't know about that, unfortunately, but I'm pretty sure most Israelis would see them as terrorists as well. Such is the dehumanization of Palestenians in Israeli eyes.
I'm quite old now. I've seen what all of them have done abroad. It's my opinion as I mentioned.
At the same time, isn't it unfair to pin that need of leadership on one geopolitical superpower when the others are basically relinquishing their own duties as geopolitical players? I just have a hard time finding sense in blaming the only big player still willing to navigate through that maze while the others are not even attempting anything like the bystanders they are.
I can and I do.
What other superpowers are you referring to?
Did you even read the post that I quoted? The fact that Russia and China do next to nothing except yapping at best speaks volumes of their own.
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There's a lot of miscalculation, IMO.
Biden is a politician from a different era. I don't think he understood how this would play out among Democratic voters in 2024. I also suspect that neither him nor his administration really understood how little Israel would care about keeping any pretense of not being all in on destroying Gaza.
Have you seen this?
How is this acceptable to the israeli society? Anyone still believes this the best way to bring about security?
I just wanted to make sure you were comparing the US to china and russia in terms of responsibility towards world peace. Two dictatorships that treat their own citizens like numbers in an excel sheet and the self proclaimed world's greatest democracy, defender of peace and human rights.
Why would people expect more from the US than china or russia?
At least the mask is almost completely off and people will start having the same expectations. In this specific conflict, I think even the biggest critics of american foreign policy are stunned with what's happening, supporting genocide and not giving two fecks. Bold strategy.
The US is providing military aid by the billions to Israel as they commit their genocide.
What an unfair comment, haven't you heard that even without all those billions and political support in the UN and pretty much everywhere else, netanyahu would still be doing the same because the US have no real power or influence?
I understand what you mean, I really do.
But the biggest influence on Israel is the US. The US is the biggest provider of military aid and diplomatic protection. The lead must come from the US. And if the US asks the Chinese, Russians etc to join the peace effort and those parties refuse, it'll reflect bad on them anyway. Now the situation reflects bad on the West too.
This is surprising.. We were hearing in early December that they’d already killed many of Hamas military leaders and were closing on on Sinwar himself.