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- Mar 6, 2016
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It’s Serie A in fairness.Kim at Napoli was better than any of our centre backs. His form is on a record low atm
It’s Serie A in fairness.Kim at Napoli was better than any of our centre backs. His form is on a record low atm
The point is that he also won a bunch of games with severely diminished teams. And that second game against OM was 3 days after the first game full of players recovering from illness that didn't train.I dun know man, I’ll give you the first defeat of the season that year, but that team that lost 1-0 at home to OSM was a damn strong team, as it was during the home draw to Bordeaux, the Monaco loss, the Lyon defeat.
Got it. So, from the 10s to now, the 5 CLs by Real don’t count and neither do the 2 CLs by Chelsea or the Inter title.First of all your time frame is misleading. In the '00s, it was indeed advisable to play a patient reactive game. The majority of the top managers devised their strategy around being solid and pouncing on opponents mistakes. We all remember those Chelsea vs Liverpool ties and plenty of other knock out CL games being cagey tight affairs. The trend is very different in the '10s post Barcelona's Guardiola. The fact that you include Mourinho's Porto as a counter attacking side is also misleading because they weren't. The man himself uses his Porto team as an example to defend himself against the stereotype associated to him.
Besides that, winning the European Cup alone is not the metric for me. The metric is being winning of course but also consistently challenging over a period of 4 or 5 years. What made Sir Alex a legend is not that he just won, it's that his teams were almost always there first, second or third and consistently in the quarters of the CL. Pep will also point out time and again that his greatest achievement is getting City to be always challenging. The best teams from 2010 onwards and tick that criteria are Real, Barcelona, Bayern and lately you'd have to add City and probably Liverpool. Except Real, all these clubs have looked to impose their game and be pro active whether it is through possession or aggressive pressing. I said in another post that I don't think anyone can do what Real does. They're the only club who can struggle to make it past the last 16 of the CL for over half a decade and still manage to lure the two previous Balon d'Or winners from CL winning clubs the way they did with CR and Kaka. The day we or anyone else can have that power, then maybe we can look to emulate them.
No, the title was lost when it could no longer be won, when Poch was there.Nar feck that he got fired cause he put the easiest league title in Europe at stake with an awful 4 losses in 17. For context the following season Poch lost just 4 in 38.
Poch despite coming in mid season managed 2.23 points pers game, a tally that would’ve taken the title over the entire season. No question it was lost in the Tuchel period.
Under Boehly yes. How did he do under Abramovich. Poch has turned them into a terrible team.PSG walked all of Poch’s league seasons where he managed them from matchday 1 though, unlike ahem…
Chelsea… good one, under Boehly Tuchel lost 3 of his 7 matches so I don’t see Poch doing worse.
And, that’s how good he is right? He’s being compared to Poch.
Oh how I wish we were run like Bayern. We can't even announce we're parting ways with a man who dumped us out of a piss easy CL group
Replacing Tuchel with Rangnick, so well run, wowOh how I wish we were run like Bayern. We can't even announce we're parting ways with a man who dumped us out of a piss easy CL group
Are you trolling? Because there is no way you failed to understand the entirety of my post. I read it myself again because I could't believe how anyone could deduct what you wrote from what I said. Let's just avoid each other's posts from now on.Got it. So, from the 10s to now, the 5 CLs by Real don’t count and neither do the 2 CLs by Chelsea or the Inter title.
I think you’re cherry picking a bit here, mate. If you’re stripping out over half of the teams that have won it, perhaps your point isn’t as strong as it could be…
A side note, Porto had 46% possession in the final v Monaco, yet won 3-0.
Don't forget making such a big deal out of how Nagelsmann is the future and the long term appointment, then fire him mid season, fire the people who fired him, wait 10 months, fire his replacement and ask him to go back only to be turned down by him. I think our fans are just frustrated with everything at the club and rightly so, that they applaud whatever actions anybody else makes if it's perceived to be the opposite of what we do. Because there is no way anyone can evaluate how Bayern have been run the last two years as anything but shambolic.Replacing Tuchel with Rangnick, so well run, wow
Hoeness publicly shitting on the current manager in the media as well
He definitely wants it. Wants to return to England, has practically said it in an interview. Only Chelsea and United will most likely need managers in the summer and one of them fired him at the beginning of last season.Best out there by a country mile, that are available. Very much doubt he will want it though as better offers are likely to come in for him. This job is a graveyard for managers with a good CV, unless all they want is the money. Just don’t think it’s his gig to re-build a derelict squad, not his forte at all. Would still welcome him though, if that’s what the powers that be decide. He’s a master tactician and would get ten times more out of this lot than EtH.
What other big jobs are still available this summer?Best out there by a country mile, that are available. Very much doubt he will want it though as better offers are likely to come in for him. This job is a graveyard for managers with a good CV, unless all they want is the money. Just don’t think it’s his gig to re-build a derelict squad, not his forte at all. Would still welcome him though, if that’s what the powers that be decide. He’s a master tactician and would get ten times more out of this lot than EtH.
Agreed. They've an overwhelming financial advantage over every German club and still lost the league in pretty embarrassing circumstances. That's the kind of thing we'd do.Don't forget making such a big deal out of how Nagelsmann is the future and the long term appointment, then fire him mid season, fire the people who fired him, wait 10 months, fire his replacement and ask him to go back only to be turned down by him. I think our fans are just frustrated with everything at the club and rightly so, that they applaud whatever actions anybody else makes if it's perceived to be the opposite of what we do. Because there is no way anyone can evaluate how Bayern have been run the last two years as anything but shambolic.
Kim may well have cost Bayern the CL final and will no doubt be critisised by everyone, fans, press, you, me ….we can all say what we like, but the manager can’t say anything. If Lewis Hamilton loses a race because his pit team screwed up, he‘s almost certain to mention it publicly ….or perhaps a jockey loses a valuable race through bad judgement, the trainer will say nothing? ….rubbish, of course he will.Because public criticism can be very easily interpreted as scapegoating and deflection. Or even bullying. Because work relationships are not on even footing, a player cannot publicly criticise the manager without repercussions.
Also how does not criticising them publicly make them untouchable, can you explain that? Players that aren't criticised publicly cannot be dropped to the bench and sold at the end of the season, or what?
Agreed. They're usually a well-run club, but recently that hasn't been the case in my book. It has to be mentioned that they also basically have a monopoly on the Bundesliga, so they don't have to worry about dropping out of top 4 if they aren't operating incredibly shrewdly, like a Premier League club has to. Same goes for Real Madrid, Barcelona and PSG.Don't forget making such a big deal out of how Nagelsmann is the future and the long term appointment, then fire him mid season, fire the people who fired him, wait 10 months, fire his replacement and ask him to go back only to be turned down by him. I think our fans are just frustrated with everything at the club and rightly so, that they applaud whatever actions anybody else makes if it's perceived to be the opposite of what we do. Because there is no way anyone can evaluate how Bayern have been run the last two years as anything but shambolic.
Really? I'm pretty sure that the United job is something he would ditch everything for, especially considering that Barcelona and Real Madrid aren't looking for a new manager this summer.Best out there by a country mile, that are available. Very much doubt he will want it though as better offers are likely to come in for him. This job is a graveyard for managers with a good CV, unless all they want is the money. Just don’t think it’s his gig to re-build a derelict squad, not his forte at all. Would still welcome him though, if that’s what the powers that be decide. He’s a master tactician and would get ten times more out of this lot than EtH.
In what way do you believe he's a control freak? If I'm not mistaken, he's first and foremost a head coach who isn't really bothered about recruitment and is only focused on the first team. That means he should be an ideal candidate for Ineos as the centerpiece of the new structure they're putting in place at the club.I dont think he has the nerves necessary for the United job. Seems an easily annoyed control freak but without the charisma of Pep. That being said, if we have the proper structure established and just let him be a coach, I think there is a chance this team actually learns some tactical discipline .
Yes they want to play with a defined style,however don't necessarily think they are specifically looking for a "yes man" but could be wrongTuchel isn't a yes man so I can't see him coming to United as Ineos and the people upstairs will be making all the decisions.
He absolutely is bothered about recruitment while not in terms of names but more in terms of profiles he wants and he is not afraid to be vocal and abrasive about it if he doesn't gets his way .In what way do you believe he's a control freak? If I'm not mistaken, he's first and foremost a head coach who isn't really bothered about recruitment and is only focused on the first team. That means he should be an ideal candidate for Ineos as the centerpiece of the new structure they're putting in place at the club.
He's alright. Nothing worth getting excited about.Absolutely the stand out candidate.
Available this summer and seems very keen on returning to the PL.
Has the authority that ETH doesn’t have and is tactically brilliant.
I can buy that he can rebuild a team. Does that rebuild start from step 1 yet again though?I like him as a manager, however there seems to be three issues which keep recurring in this thread and those are
Can he rebuild a team
Can he work with INEOS hierarchy
Can he man manage this Utd dressing room
I can buy that he can rebuild a team. Does that rebuild start from step 1 yet again though?
Is he actually keen on sticking with Mainoo, Garnacho and Hojlund for the next couple of years? Is Martinez going to be in his plans. Will he want Casemiro and Varane around for a year or two or could he go in the other direcion and decide McTominay and Maguire are central parts of his team. Will he do a bit of everything and spend a year assessing the same players yet again?
I think he's clearly the best manager available at the moment if its purely a case of who can make best use of the players available right now. I just think thats probably not the right way of thinking about it. Maybe some growing pains wouldn't be the worst thing in the world and finishing 5th instead of 3rd for a couple of years while setting a more stable foundation is a better choice at this point in time.
Part of the me thinks he'd be kind of wasted on us at this point in time. We'd burn through him in a couple of years with lots of short term signings that'll give us a couple of mid tier cup finals that satisfies no one and its back to square one yet again.
The only time he was vocal about recruitment as stated in this thread and other ones was at PSG when Leonardo wanted to bring in big names and just stick them on the pitch whether they could fit or not and Tuchel didn’t want that as he wanted to players to fit the system, Tuchel was then proven right and Leonardo moved on from his role after Tuchel had gone.He absolutely is bothered about recruitment while not in terms of names but more in terms of profiles he wants and he is not afraid to be vocal and abrasive about it if he doesn't gets his way .
So we may again find ourselves in a situation where recruitment is Coach centric not ideal given our history Post Sir Alex's retirement .
those questions hang over every potential manager. They also hang over Ten Hag abd he’s not answering them emphatically, nor offering any green shoots of progress that suggest it just needs time to click.I like him as a manager, however there seems to be three issues which keep recurring in this thread and those are
Can he rebuild a team
Can he work with INEOS hierarchy
Can he man manage this Utd dressing room
I think the whole point of the current staff changes is to actually not rely on the manager for that. The other 2 are true for any manager in any team, albeit multiplied in our case.I like him as a manager, however there seems to be three issues which keep recurring in this thread and those are
Can he rebuild a team
Can he work with INEOS hierarchy
Can he man manage this Utd dressing room
That's because it is bad man managementIt's normal to criticize a specific player. Tuchel did it yesterday, but when Ten Hag criticizes Garnacho, the media are quick to judge Ten Hag's man management.
Yes, by their standards they do.Do Bayern look bad? I don't watch much Bundesliga
I’d love to hear how you come to that conclusion. Everything I’ve seen from him suggest that man management is his most pronounced weakness. Throwing players under the bus isn’t strong leadership, it’s weak leadership. Look at Klopp or Pep and how they protect their players. Does anyone doubt that they criticize them? Of course not, you just don’t do it publicly unless you think it might motivate them - and then you don’t do it like Tuchel, but with respect.His man-management is decent but can go wrong with certain players, just like any other manager in the world
I think you’re talking about two different things here. There’s no problem in a managers criticism of a player’s mistake if it’s done with respect and not to just single him out. I agree with you that sometimes it’s just comical and ridiculous when a manager tries to avoid mentioning a player who had an obviously horrific game.Kim may well have cost Bayern the CL final and will no doubt be critisised by everyone, fans, press, you, me ….we can all say what we like, but the manager can’t say anything. If Lewis Hamilton loses a race because his pit team screwed up, he‘s almost certain to mention it publicly ….or perhaps a jockey loses a valuable race through bad judgement, the trainer will say nothing? ….rubbish, of course he will.
It‘s so pathetic when a football manager is grilled by the press as to why his team lost a match, when everyone knows it was because a certain player had totally fecked up. Yet in order to protect the player responsible the manager has to concoct some bullshit story, avoiding what actually happened.
Everyone should be accountable for their actions, including footballers ….if they’re happy to suck up the adulation when they play well, then it should go both ways.
Just my personal opinion, bearing in mind there is no rule to say a manager can’t publicly critisise a player.
Don‘t really disagree with what you say. As I previously said it’s just my personal opinion.I think you’re talking about two different things here. There’s no problem in a managers criticism of a player’s mistake if it’s done with respect and not to just single him out. I agree with you that sometimes it’s just comical and ridiculous when a manager tries to avoid mentioning a player who had an obviously horrific game.
It’s another matter entirely when a manager blames one player alone for a defeat. Then it exacerbates the shitstorm and often comes off as deflection - the team could just have scored one more goal or kept the opponent from scoring.
It all comes down to one thing: Does it help the player and the team or not? If players know that their manager has their back, they’ll usually accept warranted public criticism from him. But if the manager randomly throws single players under the bus, he’ll soon lose their respect and confidence. Also, players have different personalities and while some may use public criticism constructively as fuel, it might hurt the self confidence of others. Then you might say that they need to step up or whatever, but it’s all about the team and if it doesn’t improve the team, the manager needs to abstain from it
In the sense that he starts weirdly jumping around every time his instructions were not carried out to the t. I was referring to the micromanagement during games, not the controlling of transfers. And I also don't think he is not bother by recruitment, in the sense that he doesn't care what he gets. Its more like he does not want to be bothered with the logistics of it.In what way do you believe he's a control freak? If I'm not mistaken, he's first and foremost a head coach who isn't really bothered about recruitment and is only focused on the first team. That means he should be an ideal candidate for Ineos as the centerpiece of the new structure they're putting in place at the club.