Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

maximus419 said:
I get sick and tired of people making excuses for managers. He's come to Utd because he's been tasked with the job of coaching these players to get results, simple as that. Whilst this might not be a great Manchester Untied team, there are still many internationals on the pitch who look a lot better for their country than they do at Utd. How is that, how are these players still good enough for their coubtry but at the same time everyone is saying the players are all terrible?

A managers job is to get the best out of the players, to set them up with the best chance of getting a result. Right now it looks from an outsider, that Amorim is a rookie coach, still trying to grasp what the PL is about, whilst simultaneously trying to implement a formation that the players are obviously not trusting. It's a recipe for disaster and it's proving so with performances and results. I wasn't expecting miracles and an unbeaten run, but I did expect far better than what's been served up to now.

We've been here too many times before where the manager is too stubborn and thinks todays the day things turn around, but they never ever do. If we're waiting until he gets his perfect squad, we'll wait an enternity because it isn't happening. So we must get someone in who knows the PL, is proven at a big club and go again.
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Nah I’m sorry but I disagree. Long gone are the days this club bow to the needs of this overpaid, underperforming group of ‘professionals’ that have done nothing but embarrass the club it’s time to back a manager with the players he needs on a system he’s seen work.

He’s identified quickly the players who need shifting, a blind man could see Casemiro, Antony and Rashford need moving on and he’s acted, if the club won’t support what needs to be done that’s on them

We had about 300m worth of failed players on the bench it’s madness just how fecked up this club is
 
Lentwood said:
It's a tough one.

I love Amorim, his personality and emotional intelligence shine through.

He's not had enough time on the training pitch to draw any conclusions on his coaching abilities.

However, my personal dilemma is that I a constantly torn between two thoughts...

1. Amorim needs to stick to his guns, because changing to accommodate the players is a road to nowhere

BUT

2. Good teams don't become good teams by being dogmatic. You evolve from a solid base. We should be getting the basics right, and THEN working on dominating possession, territory etc...

I can't help but keep thinking...very limited teams like Forest and Bournemouth have shown that organisation goes a long long way. Could we not just make ourselves hard to beat first, and build from there? Is it really necessary to try to play like an elite side, when we're clearly not?
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Totally agree and it's that dilemma that is so confusing right now. Specifically referencing Forest and Bournemouth highlights something too; they didn't do anything particularly impressive to beat us. We made huge mistakes that gifted them the game.

Against Liverpool, Arsenal and City we seem to focus in and not make the huge errors that cost us matches. I'm not sure if it is that attempt to play more ambitiously against 'lesser' teams that makes us cock up but it's a pattern at this point.
 
Woziak said:
Totally agree , Amorim is rapidly turning into our Villa Boas, time to give him an ultimatum; get 8/9 points minimum from next 5 PL games or he can go and we go get Iraola from bournemouth before Spurs do, we need a PL proven coach.

He must be told to not mention United with the words relegation and Battle in any press. Conference or that will be categorised as Gross Misconduct and then he can leave.

He’s not playing a 3421 attacking system like at Sporting, he’s playing a 5221 with a low block system because these players are not suited to play 3421. We have hardly any of our defenders who suit a 3 man defence, Maguire maybe being the exception, the others don’t have the pace to play in that system, Maybe Mazraoui could if he just stays at RCB!

The back 3 become a slow deep back 5 that are very predictable, the two man midfield is then exposed because the wing backs are not directly to the side or 5/10 yards higher but instead 20 yards deeper and then the tens are maybe 10 yards in front with an isolated 9 twenty yards higher, everything breaks down and it’s just 11 players wandering round the pitch being completely over ran! He won’t last 2 months, if he doesn’t get players or he changes, he’ll be gone by April 1st 2025.
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And what should we do when Iraola comes in and we keep on losing game after game? Because I would bet good money that's exactly what would happen. Almost guaranteed it would be.
 
LordSpud said:
If anyone's expecting INEOS to drop £100m+ this summer they are in for a shock. We will still be in a sell to buy problem supplemented by maybe £30m-£50m?

INEOS won't be wanting to squander any money for at least 3 years.
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United will spend well over £150m, like they do every summer.
 
Cathy Ferguson said:
I doubt that the people hiring him knew much about his tactics. They just saw a successful manager.
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They knew about his tactics which is why they didn't want him as the squad was not built for his football, not sure it was built for anybodies football. ETH built a squad even he struggled to get a tune out of. They apparently interviewed loads of manager but couldn't find what they wanted or other turned them down. What the hell they do want I have no idea. Probably to spend as little money as possible. That is the mess ETH, Murtough and Co and now Ineos have left us in. I don't know what they promised Ruben, but they should have either got him in last summer and started overhauling the squad then, or let him come in next summer. They have made a right old dogs dinner of it.
 
Nep77 said:
A five-defender formation with a two-man midfield is being consistently exposed and the opposition keeps driving through our midfield same as Ten Hag. While this setup might have been effective in the Portuguese league, where the gap between top and bottom teams is vast, Premier League is far less forgiving.
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Sporting was still poor in 2 out of the 4 and a half seasons with Amorim in charge (namely the 1st and 3rd seasons).

I still think Amorim is a good manager and can get Utd up there given enough time and budget, but the results so far have been way beyond bad.
It should have never gotten this bad, so the fans are starting to question him, rightfully so.
Probably the board is having doubts as well.
Maybe that's why we're half way through January and nobody has been signed yet to improve the squad.
 
Caveat: I really like Amorim and I am desperate for him to succeed. I like how he wants to play and I love his manner.

But...
We must be realistic here. Ratcliffe is not going to let him spend £200m+ building a new team if he can't at least get better results with these players. They are nowhere near title winning level, but they are top half at the very least.

Also, #10's and pure wingbacks are not players you commonly find nowadays, especially in the PL. If Amorim's system doesn't work in England we'll be stuck with another load of misfit players when he leaves.

An element of pragmatism must be needed here too? At the moment he's just mirroring Ange at Spurs, and look how that's going... elite managers are always very adaptable.

It would be better if he started off with whatever formation suited our best players, and then slowly adapted that to his preferred system. You could argue this 3-4-2-1 is tunnel vision and that's never a good thing.

:(
 
Looks spectacularly out of his depth. Lucky to beat Soton and dominated today, Brighton probably should have scored more.

Really want it to work out for him, speaks well and looks the part but I’m struggling to see a single benefit or positive he’s brought up to now.

I know he wants to stick to his principles but we’ve got to concede less and score more, it’s not difficult, the current method/style isn’t working and his insistence to stick to it is making him look stupid.
 
Jezpeza said:
I think he may as well leave now if he is going to change the system.

We cant let the tail wag the dog. Most of the players dont suit his system. Thats being proved most games.

This season is gone, it will be poor, we will end up with even more defeats than last seasons record 14 - we are on 10 with 16 games to play.

In the summer the players have to be got much fitter and many need to be moved on. The squad isnt built for anything - we played 4231 under ETH trying to ping it behind for runners and it didnt work.

We’ve managed to assemble a squad of mainly non technical, non athletic nobodies who’s real level is playing in places like Turkey or exhibition football in Saudi Arabia.

If Amorim gets a striker, 2 wing backs and an athletic box to box midfielder in the summer with a pre season and boosts our fitness this 343 quickly begins to yield good outcomes in my opinion
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Optimistic . Can't see them spending money in the summer unless Garnacho and Mainoo get sold for a lot of money.
 
Grave Robber said:
Why move Amad from his RWB position where he scored 3 goals to #10?
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Amad was playing as a #10 when he scored.
He started as RWB but him and Antony changed positions at the end of the game.
 
I think we appointed the wrong man, we dont have the players to play his 1 way of playing and we cant sign him any players as we have no money so this just isnt going to work out.
 
I understand Amorim when he says over and over that it's going to take time. It makes good sense that we will have a period where we are going to get a little bit worse results while the players get to know his very different system and tactics and he gets to know the club and the league.
But it must never, ever be as bad as it is now. It is completely unheard of. We lose almost every game at Oldtrafford, we create no chances for the attackers and we are scored against in every game except against Everton.
We almost look like Southampton.
 
VP89 said:
Im not being stubborn, you're resorting to name calling for no reason outside to instigate a fight.

Do we have a squad better than the trash form we've shown under Amorim? It's obviously yes. He should be doing better so stop trying to excuse him for it.
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You really are. We have made great progress under Ruben. We lost today in a super tight game. Another of his wasteful signings ruined the game. Under ETH, we would be outplayed for 80 minutes for every game and you would continue to praise how brilliant we play during a 10-15min period. Pathetic!
 
Said it after Newcastle, Amorim's time was up. Two fortunate draws against Liverpool and Arsenal in the cup, in which we should have probably lost both, and limping past a Southampton team that is set to rival the worst Premier League teams of all time hasn't changed my mind and today has confirmed it. He's tactically inept, his plan A is so aesthetically woeful, he has no plan B and we're sat on one win (in normal time) in eight with no clue how to keep a clean sheet.
 
Ten Hag played in a way to suit them and we were still fecking shite.

But the problem now is Ruben's system...

Okay.
 
Massimo Taibi said:
Said it after Newcastle, Amorim's time was up. Two fortunate draws against Liverpool and Arsenal in the cup, in which we should have probably lost both, and limping past a Southampton team that is set to rival the worst Premier League teams of all time hasn't changed my mind and today has confirmed it. He's tactically inept, his plan A is so aesthetically woeful, he has no plan B and we're sat on one win (in normal time) in eight with no clue how to keep a clean sheet.
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Thanks for making me laugh :lol:
 
Large amount of people that watched the game vs Southampton expected this to be a tough game and more likely than not a defeat. Amorim is partly to blame but unless it gets worse he'll be safe. Liverpool away was most promising performance of his tenure so far and he has to make sure those kind of performances get repeated, at least from time to time.
Massimo Taibi said:
Said it after Newcastle, Amorim's time was up. Two fortunate draws against Liverpool and Arsenal in the cup, in which we should have probably lost both, and limping past a Southampton team that is set to rival the worst Premier League teams of all time hasn't changed my mind and today has confirmed it. He's tactically inept, his plan A is so aesthetically woeful, he has no plan B and we're sat on one win (in normal time) in eight with no clue how to keep a clean sheet.
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Why was Liverpool draw lucky one? Arsenal was to some extent but most of their chances (except one) came after Dalot got sent off.
 
I still think this bloke has shown a lot more to be hopeful of. I can’t understand the ones who are saying he’s the wrong man already? It just seems like a mental opinion.
 
I think senior management need to step in now and set him a (private) ultimatum. 8 points minimum from the next five league games.

Fulham (a)
Palace (h)
Spurs (a)
Everton (a)
Ipswich (h)
 
Matt851 said:
It's mad to ask for another manager already but its not that controversial to suggest another manager could have done better so far. Our players aren't great but do better suit four at the back
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Of course someone may have done better so far but I assume he has been brought in to oversee wholesale change, which is exactly what we need. Anyone trying to to do that is going to struggle, it’s why every other manager reverted to pragmatism, counter attacking and defending deeper.

At some point you have to go back to the drawing board and start again, we’ve spent a long time playing a back 4 and not been very good but our fundamental problems extend way beyond the formation.
 
Posh Red said:
United will spend well over £150m, like they do every summer.
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With consistently lower income due to not being in the CL, huge money wasted on terrible signings with no resale value and big money payoffs for disastrous managers, the ability to do that 'every summer' has gone.
 
soapythecat said:
Be lucky to finish the season at this rate. To carry such little goal threat and concede easy goals in every single game - he has to be under the spotlight because he’s looking clueless.
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I’ve never known a manager to be so wedded to a system.

You look at that game today and think that any decent manager would have removed a defender to add another player into midfield to try and get control of the game.

I can’t see him surviving the season unless he learns to adapt. That doesn’t mean he has to abandon his principles either. It just means that he needs to be more willing to change things when they aren’t working.
 
Hmm. Not convinced by his system at all. We have become even worse than we were under ETH. One would think it would make us solid at the back even if our attack sucked yet we are still conceding 2-3 goals on the regular. Also, seems like people have convinced themselves that our squad is relegation quality and are completely absolving him of any blame.

He was brought in to get better performances and results than we had under ETH and he's completely failing at that. I'm not sure if he should be trusted with money unless he can start getting better performances from the current lot.

Number one thing any new coach should be doing is getting better performances from the players he has at his disposal. I'm not sure if even a single player has improved because of him or his system. Something has to give.
 
UnsungHero said:
Caveat: I really like Amorim and I am desperate for him to succeed. I like how he wants to play and I love his manner.

But...
We must be realistic here. Ratcliffe is not going to let him spend £200m+ building a new team if he can't at least get better results with these players. They are nowhere near title winning level, but they are top half at the very least.

Also, #10's and pure wingbacks are not players you commonly find nowadays, especially in the PL. If Amorim's system doesn't work in England we'll be stuck with another load of misfit players when he leaves.

An element of pragmatism must be needed here too? At the moment he's just mirroring Ange at Spurs, and look how that's going... elite managers are always very adaptable.

It would be better if he started off with whatever formation suited our best players, and then slowly adapted that to his preferred system. You could argue this 3-4-2-1 is tunnel vision and that's never a good thing.

:(
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I agree with this and I would not be surprised if Amorim is gone by July.

It feels clear that our exec team actually does not have a long term plan, or any real idea of how to make short term decisions that might produce short term positive results. As you point out, this is all leading to a decision where the club is either going to have to spend vast sums of money retooling the team or just accept the inevitible results that will come from trying to play Amorim's way without giving him the players for it.

Given how they've approached cost cutting, as well as the fact they only gave Amorim a 2 and a bit year contract, you can easily see INEOS deciding this has all been a mistake. Look at Nice. None of their coaches there have lasted very long. We shouldn't expect much different at United.

Wouldn't be surprised if Berrada and Wilcox follow Amorim out if we end up firing him. Sir Jim is going to blame anyone involved in the hiring if it comes to pot.
 
city-puma said:
You really are. We have made great progress under Ruben. We lost today in a super tight game. Another of his wasteful signings ruined the game. Under ETH, we would be outplayed for 80 minutes for every game and you would continue to praise how brilliant we play during a 10-15min period. Pathetic!
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We are not making great progress :lol: You won't find many here that would agree with you that we are "making great progress". We have picked up 4 points in our last 6 league games, the majority of which have been at Old Trafford.

Forget Ten Hag for a second (even though we never hit a low in form with him quite like we are in now) - we should be doing a lot better than we are in these games.

Today we were lethargic, slow, scared to play, passive. It was the same in all the other games bar Liverpool and Arsenal. Mainoo and Garnacho also look like worse players now. Yorro looks shit. There's not a lot of positives at all. The only positive is that it should get better but that doesn't excuse his form right now.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
I think we appointed the wrong man, we dont have the players to play his 1 way of playing and we cant sign him any players as we have no money so this just isnt going to work out.
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I’m open to this opinion but who is the right man? Is there a manager in world football that can get a tune out of this collection of players?
 
MikeUpNorth said:
I think senior management need to step in now and set him a (private) ultimatum. 8 points minimum from the next five league games.

Fulham (a)
Palace (h)
Spurs (a)
Everton (a)
Ipswich (h)
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Can only see us beating Ipswich at home on current form. Fulham are better than us right now, Palace are improving. Everton have got a new manager in, and by the time we play Spurs they might have a new manager.
 
I like him a hell of a lot more than ETH but it’s not working and it’s not working because he’s not accepting certain players can’t play in this set up.

The problem isn’t the system. It’s the players. But if he hasn’t figured out by now that
- Mazraoui and Dalot aren’t wing backs
- Mainoo cannot play in a two man midfield

Then he’s gonna find himself hanging onto his job sooner rather than later. As much as this season is a right off. We can’t just be not winning games.
 
VP89 said:
Do we have a squad better than the trash form we've shown under Amorim? It's obviously yes.
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Honest question, why do you think this is the case? He is achieving similar results to what ETH did, if I’m not mistaken. We were 14th when he was fired and that’s just about where we are now.

The squad is dire. Just awful. It’s filled with massive, massive problems. We have a goalkeeper that gives away goals, defenders that can’t defend, a midfield that can’t compete, no goalscorers, and no left footed back.

Fair to criticize Amorim for individual decisions, tactics, etc., but he is working with absolute dogshit. The narrative is that United can’t be 13th because it’s United. But are we really far off having the 13th best squad in the league? Without doing the individual assessment, I’d say there are probably 9-10 better starting XIs in the PL right now.
 
Bojan11 said:
Can only see us beating Ipswich at home on current form. Fulham are better than us right now, Palace are improving. Everton have got a new manager in, and by the time we play Spurs they might have a new manager.
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Well, yes, we need to see some improvement. Fast.
 
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